Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Dana White Announces Koscheck vs. Hendricks for UFC on FOX

The Dude Abides...The Stats That Don't Lie, Week 15

"You stats shouldn't play so rough. Somebody's gonna start crying."

--Mr. Blonde

Some teams bark all day, little doggy.  And some teams bite.  

Week 15 was supposed to be an easy caper for the playoff-bound teams in the NFL.  Minnesota, New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Indianapolis were all looking to get in, do their job, and get out--unscathed and without too much gun play. Only two of these teams (Philly and Indy) actually escaped with a win.

As usually happens when jobs get botched, the better team isn't done-in by the play of the other team.  No, that's rarely how it happens.  Usually it's an inside job.

This was certainly the case with your Denver Broncos.  While the Oakland Raiders showed they had some ammunition, it was the Broncos that turned on themselves.  The Broncos were too careless (missed tackles, bad angles, and missed blocks). They were too cute (a pass to Ryan Clady and a QB sneak on 2nd down).  And in the end, there they were - wounded from field goals and gashed from the running game, while JaMarcus Russell walked away with the cash.  

Welcome to another week of The Stats That Don't Lie, your weekly rendezvous where we pick our statistical aliases.  These are the stats that don't believe in tipping.  They are the stats that don't talk, no matter how much you torture them.  As always they are Turnovers, Field Position, Time of Possession, and 3rd-Down Efficiency.  

This week's edition is real special, too, and not just because I'm making Reservoir Dogs references.  It's because I'm finally going to exhaust Denver's 3rd-down woes. (Note: I tried to link all references for Broncos fans born after 1990).

Star-divide

The Big Picture & 3rd Downs

Usually I put up a graph each week expounding upon the turnover margin in Denver's win/loss.  This week, Denver won the turnover battle and lost the game, so it's a good time to look at what has been another key area for Denver (we´ll deal with turnovers shortly).  It´s no secret that Denver has struggled on 3rd downs.  But just how bad has it been?  Not as bad as taking one to the gut, but let´s take a look:

 

4205529420_71e8264df6_medium

The blue line is the league-average per game since the Broncos' bye week.  It has ranged from 37.13% to 37.79%.  This is normal.  The league average usually runs between 37% and 38%.  The orange line is Denver's 3rd-down percentage per game through the bye week as well.  In Denver's last 8 games, they've manage to best this league average but one time.  In 3 of the 8 games, they didn't even hit 30%.  As you'll see in the rankings, they are averaging a paltry 34.53% per game.

Clearly, this is a huge problem.  Consider the 15-week average per game of the playoff teams if the season were to end today, in addition to the four biggest threats to Denver's wild-card spot.

  1. Indianapolis: 51.61%
  2. San Diego: 41.81%
  3. New England: 42.45%
  4. Cincinnati: 41.71%
  5. Baltimore: 40.08%
  6. Denver: 34.53%
  7. Jacksonville: 43.08%
  8. PIttsburgh: 39.11%
  9. Miami: 47.10%
  10. Tennessee: 40.00%

Someone on this list doesn't have a cool-sounding 3rd-down rate,  and we are not talking about the Colts. Even though the Broncos are within one standard deviation (about 6%) from the mean of 37.71%, the Broncos are fortunate that their defense has produced some timely turnovers this year.  One might even wonder how a team with such a bad 3rd-down percentage is in the position of making the playoffs.  For now, let's chalk it up to orange-and-blue leprechauns and move on.   

3rd Downs - Hooked On a Feeling

The real question is, "Why have the Broncos done so poorly on 3rd downs all year long?"  Stats can only do so much of the heavy lifting, but we'll give it a shot, anyway.  

Many have postulated that it's the offensive line, the play calling, or Knowshon Moreno himself.  Some view Peyton Hillis as the bionic man.  Perhaps he should be getting more carries.  Or some want to blame a certain bad ass with the finest neck beard this side of the Mississippi.  I'm hearing none of it.

I have a different theory.  It's less complex.  And it doesn't require pointing fingers.  

Simply, it's this team's first experience with "Erhardt-Perkins" offense.  As Tom Brady has repeatedly alluded, getting used to this complex offensive system, installed with the Patriots by Charlie Weis, takes at least two years to get used to, if not more.  But let's not take Brady's word for it, let's look at the numbers.    

We simply need to go back to the 2000 Patriots, when Weis installed the offense and look at the Patriots' 3rd-down conversion rate between 2000 and 2001.  In 2000, the Patriots were 35% on 3rd downs.  In 2001, that number jumped 6% to 41%.  Now, there is one big difference between 2000 and 2001.  And that's Tom Brady at quarterback. But it was his second year in the system, and I don't believe Brady's numbers would have been the same had he had that first year as a rookie to learn Weis's system.   

The Football Outsiders, who many stats geeks worship like I do Pam Grier, would agree.  They've had a theory going about 3rd downs for several years:

Teams which are strong on first and second down, but weak on third down, will tend to improve the following year...over time, a team will play as well in those situations as it does in other situations, which will bring the overall offense or defense in line with the offense and defense on first and second down.

This year Denver has rushed for 977 yards on 1st down, good for 4th-best in the league in that category.   Here is the precise breakdown on 1st and 2nd downs when compared to 3rd down:

  • 1st Down-Average Running Play: 4.2 yards; Average Passing Play: 7.02 yards
  • 2nd Down-Average Running Play: 4.71 yards; Average Passing Play: 5.99 yards
  • 3rd Down-Average Running Play: 2.62 yards; Average Passing Play: 5.19 yards

Your eyes do not deceive you.  On 3rd down, Denver struggles.  If the Football Outsiders' theory is correct (it has been over the last 7 years) and history repeats itself with the Broncos' learning curve with respect to the  "Erhardt-Perkins" system, we are looking at a team next year which is poised to improve drastically in 3rd-down efficiency. Take it to the bank.

Stuck in the Middle With You on 3rd-and-Short

Since we are beating the 3rd-down horse, it's also useful to bring up the play calling on 3rd and short.  A lot of fans have been lamenting the Broncos' struggle on 3rd and short and hoping the team would pass more often.  While this is completely understandable, just know that the percentages actually favor running in these situations--by a good margin. Once again, I present to you one of the little gems from the Football Outsiders:

On average, passing will always gain more yardage than running, with one very important exception: when a team is just one or two yards away from a new set of downs or the goal line. On third-and-1, a run will convert for a new set of downs 36 percent more often than a pass. Expand that to all third or fourth downs with 1-2 yards to go, and the run is successful 40 percent more often. With these percentages, the possibility of a long gain with a pass is not worth the tradeoff of an incomplete that kills a drive...

...Teams pass roughly 60 percent of the time on third-and-2 even though runs in that situation convert 20 percent more often than passes. They pass 68 percent of the time on fourth-and-2 even though runs in that situation convert twice as often as passes.

As bad as Denver has been in short-yardage situations this year on 3rd and 4th down, it's still not swimming upstream against these percentages.  And if you don't think McDaniels knows the percentages, you are fooling yourself.  Still want more proof?  Consider that on 3rd-and-3 (or less):

  • Kyle Orton is 7 out of 15 passing (54%)
  • Knowshon Moreno is 10 out of 15 rushing (67%) 
  • Moreno just happens to be converting on 3rd-and-3 (or less) about 24% more often than when Orton throws in the same situation.  This is slightly higher than the Football Outsiders would estimate, but we are dealing with a relatively small sample size.  However, the point is still valid.  McDaniels is generally making the right call when he continues to run the ball on third and short.

    For those that believe Peyton Hillis is Charles Bronson, ask yourself if he could have done any better than 10 out of 15? If you can look yourself in the mirror with any seriousness and answer, "yes," than we'll just have to act like professionals. Maurice Jones-Drew has picked up 17 out of 22 (77%), so you'd be putting Hillis in that kind of company. Given that Hillis has only averaged 3.4 in his 5 carries this year up the middle, I'm skeptical.  Moreno has had 62 carries up the middle and averages 3.7.  

    The Offensive Line - Hold It...A Little Big Longer

    If you want to point to the offensive line and losing Ryan Harris, then we've got some common ground.  This loss is a lot bigger problem than McDaniels would like you to believe.  Here is what Denver was averaging per carry on the ground (pre-Oakland) through 14 weeks:

    Left End  Left Tackle  Left Guard    Middle Left   Middle Right   Right Guard   Right Tackle   Right End

       4.2            4.6               5.2                3.6                3.4                  4.4                 5.5               4.7

    If you were scouting the Broncos and you saw these numbers, it would become clear to you very quickly that the strength of this offensive line was on the right side of the ball in general and on the outside edges--at least with respect to running.  It's even clearer when you look at the right-end runs and left-end runs, because Daniel Graham is shifting in the formation and these numbers are directly related to him.  If the left side of the line were as good as the right, you would expect the numbers on the right-end to be similar to those on the left-end.  This isn't a knock on Ryan Clady--far from it if you look at the numbers off left tackle.  It's simply a recognition of the importance of Ryan Harris (and also Polumbus, who has played well in the running game).

    This is data a casual fan comprehends, but it is also backed up by a short-yardage asssessment as in BShrout's impressive analysis here.  In addition, it's backed up by slightly more complex statistics as well, as witnessed by Jeremy Bolander's excellent post last week, in which he applies Sharpe Ratios to running plays behind each of Denver's offensive linemen. Bolander cleverly noted the reward gained (represented by the standard deviation) in-and-above a "safe" play of a zero yard gain: 

    ...the ratios for running behind Weigmann, Hochstein/Hamilton are generally quite poor, at 0.14 and -0.18. Clady is better, clocking in at .300375 while Kuper dominates in short yardage at 1.78885. Too often, however, the one cut has been designed to bend back away from Kuper's stellar blocking. When the blocking scheme is more straight ahead, we seem to take advantage of his side more.

    This certainly correlates to a general strategy of Denver being more effective when running to the right side.

    When taken as a whole, all of this would suggest that Denver is going to continue to struggle a bit on 3rd downs.  The quarterbacks and receivers continue to learn the complex "Erhardt-Perkins" scheme, and the absence of Harris and the play of the offensive line, while it hasn't been horrendous, has shown consistency issues.  As other teams continue their run slants, rush blitzes, and stacking the line of scrimmage, (as both the Raiders and Colts did), look for McDaniels to counter with strategies like play action.

    Team Rankings:

    Here's where the Broncos stack up against the rest of the league after Week 15. As always, remember these are averages/game (in my mind a better measure than aggregate numbers):

    4207050599_9ff0a0fb37_medium

    While Denver continues its spiral on 3rd downs (the St. Louis Rams rank just below them), they still rank high in both giveaways (which I consistently label "turnovers") and turnover margin per game.  Don't turn the ball over.  Play good defense, capitalize on the mistakes of the other team. This was, is, and will continue to be their ticket to winning.  

    Given Denver's ranking in average starting field position (28.98-yard line) per game, I was pleasantly surprised in the Oakland game to see Kenny McKinley back returning.  I thought he showed a great burst and quickness that will only get better.  Although I had been clamoring for Alphonso Smith, I'll take what I can get.  I was never sold that Eddie Royal was the longterm answer.  Not because he wasn't capable,  but because we'll never see another Tim Brown in this league.  I think letting Royal be a receiver is the right move.  And, outside of the San Diego game, the numbers weren't eye-popping (23.9 yards/kick).  Royal was being asked to do too many things.  When you've got jokers to your left and Raiders to the right, you need a guy who is focused on returns and rested between each series. 

    There's not much to say about Denver's time of possession other than they are sitting right at the league average.

    From the rankings above, one team you must absolutely love is the Green Bay Packers, even after their loss to the Steelers in Week 15.  I know, I know, the Steelers threw the ball all over the yard on them.  But Aaron Rodgers is as underrated as Jay Cutler is overrated.  They rank 1st in turnover margin, 2nd in giveaways, 1st in field position, 4th in time of possession, and 5th in 3rd-down efficiency.  While the Packers are no Foxy Brown, they are still a whole lot of playoff team.   I continue to think that the Packers can play with the Saints and Vikings, and I would personally love to see Rodgers send Favre back to retirement.  If that makes me a Favre hater, then okay, but I prefer to think of it more like I am a hater of the Mainstream Media crush that exists for so-called "gunslingers."  I mean, it's not like the the guy is taking anyone on a magic carpet ride with his arm this year anyway.

    The teams that are the most dangerous from these rankings are the teams that rank high in both turnover margin and 3rd-down efficiency, because once the playoffs start, you need a team that at once doesn't make errors and which capitalizes on errors.  And a team that can "make plays," which is just code for converting on 3rd downs.   Right now, I would say this list includes, in no particular order:

    • Indianapolis

    • San Diego

    • Green Bay

    • Minnesota

    • New Orleans

    • New England

    • Cincinnati

    Each of these teams is in the top ten in both categories, although the Chargers seem to have the most momentum of the whole bunch, as much as it pains me to say it.

    Last week a few of you pointed out that perhaps I should finally let up on Jay Cutler as he continues his assault on history. I thought about it for one Sunday, but before I could say "Like a Virgin," "True Blue," or "Borderline," Culter had thrown 25 picks for the year.  This is the most in NFL history for a non-rookie quarterback in his first year with a new team.  That's a strange stat indeed. Suffice to say the guy is to interceptions as a Tarantino movie is to F-Bombs.  You lose count 20 minutes in.  

    Imagine how bad it would be if the Bears didn't rank 5th in average starting field position.   Actually, it might have worked out better for the Bears if they didn't rank so high because then Cutler wouldn't begin so close to the red zone.

    Week 15 - The Games

    4207571613_f8f1a7a4a8_medium

    Let's start where we always begin, with the Broncos-Raiders game  Since I was a big advocate two days ago of simply forgetting the game, I won't say too much, except that given the Raiders turned the ball over twice, it would appear that Denver would have won this game.  But, if you read these ramblings columns on a weekly basis, you know I am a big "context" guy.  Yes, turnovers are bad.  Yes, if you are plus-1 in turnover margin, the stats say you'll win about 70% of the time.  Get to plus-2 and you're at 80%.  Yes, all of this is true.  However, you also know that turnovers committed early in a game can be overcome--even by a decade of washed-up first-round draft picks known as the Oakland Raiders.  Oakland committed one of its turnovers on its 2nd drive (1st quarter) and the other on its 8th (3rd quarter).  But they had 12 drives in the game with which to work.

    And what did Denver do with these two turnovers?  They put up 10 points off of them.  And yet they still did not win. This is what happens when you crawl around at 26% on 3rd downs.  Not even Lee Marvin could get you out of that one.

    If you want another interesting stat that hasn't received any attention from the Denver game, it's the following:  on Oakland's scoring drives, they ran the ball 13 times for a total of 94 yards.  This represents an average of 7.2 yards per carry, which is almost what Oakland's average was for the entire game running the ball.  But the standard deviation of this data set was 8.8 yards.  This is my smarty-pants way of saying that the Raiders running game was feast or famine.  They had a lot of 1- and 3-yard carries, but also several carries over 20 yards.  

    Everyone is commenting on the New Orleans-Dallas game, so I might as well throw in my two cents.  New Orleans had 11 drives in the game.  They committed turnovers on 3 of them.  That left them with 8 drives.  And the Cowboys got out to a big lead, so in the 2nd half they ran the ball effectively and killed the clock, which led to their domination of the time of possession. Did I mention that Drew Brees was 14% on 3rd down?   Given that New Orleans is usually at 43% on 3rd downs, this was quite a feat.  Dallas got pressure, and they got it with their front 4.  

    Two other games I briefly want to mention.  First, the Jags-Indy game.  Two weeks ago, I developed a profile of what a Colts loss would look like, based on their losses since 2005.  In Week 15, the Jacksonville Jaguars almost matched that profile. They ran, and ran, and ran, rushing 34 times in the game.  They tried their very best to keep Peyton Manning off the field.  They matched the Colts step for step on 3rd down.  And what happened?  Oh, just a 93-yard kickoff return from the Colts for a touchdown.   Manning lives to fight another day.

    The second game I wanted to point out is the Eagles-Niners game - if for nothing else, to simply point out that San Francisco was 0% in 3rd-down efficiency.   The Niners also turned the ball over 4 times.  But somehow they avoided the blowout and made a game of it.  They even managed an average of 5.9 yards per rush against the Eagles.  The Eagles can be beaten.

    The Summaries

    2-Turnover Rule  (Explained Here)

    • 7 teams had 0 turnovers. 5 won (71%); For the season, 67/87 (77%)

    • 8 teams had 1 turnover. 4 won (50%); For the season, 75/129 (58%)

    • 7 teams had 2 turnovers.  5 won (71%); For the season, 56/122 (46%)

    • 6 teams had 3 turnovers. 2 won (33%); For the season, 22/67 (33%)

    • 2 team had 4 turnovers.  None won (0%); For the season, 4/29 (14%)

    • 2 teams had 5+ turnovers.  None won (0%); For the season, 0/14 (0%)

    Week 15 - Big Picture
    • The team that won the turnover battle (removing ties) won 8 of 11 games played (73%) 

    • 5 games were tied in the turnover battle.

    • The team that won the time of possession battle won 11 of the 16 games played (69%).  

    • The team that had better third-down efficiency won 13 of the 16 games played (81%).

    • The team that had better average starting field position won 7 of the 16 games played (44%)

    • There were 4 games this week in which a team won all four categories.  In all 4, the same team won on the scoreboard (100%).  

    • The winning teams this week averaged 1.25 turnovers, 31:32  in time of possession, 44.32% on 3rd downs, and their average starting field position was the 30.82-yard line.  

    Top 5 in Week 15:
    • Top 5 in giveaways: 7 Teams Tied with 0.

    • Top 5 in time of possession: 1.Carolina  2.Dallas  3.Jacksonville  4.Pittsburgh  5.Cleveland

      Top 5 in 3rd downs: 1.Giants   2.Indy  3.Jacksonville  4.Green Bay  5.Dallas/Saint Louis  

    • Top 5 in avg. starting field position: 1.Baltimore  2.Cleveland 3.Tampa Bay  4.Buffalo  5.Giants

    Running Totals, Season (through 15 weeks):
    • 224 games have been played this season

    • 75.80% (or 141/186) were won by the team with less turnovers (removing ties)
    • 38 games were tied in the turnover battle
    • 66.52% with a better time of possession

    • 68.75% by the team who won on 3rd down

    • 69.64% by the team that won the field-position battle.

    15-week League Averages:
  • 15-week running average/game, turnovers (all teams): 1.71

  • 15-week running average/game, time of possession (all teams): 30:10 (thanks to OT games)

  • 15-week running average/game, 3rd down efficiency (all teams): 37.79%

  • 15-week running average, starting field position (all teams) 29.91-yard line


  • The Look Ahead

    Looking ahead to Philadelphia, here is how the two teams stack up in the four statistical categories (keeping in mind these are averages/game):

    Team         Turnovers/Game          Time of Possession          Field Position          3rd-Down Efficiency

    Denver                  1.36                                   30:03                                     29.98                         34.53%

    Philadelphia          1.36                                   28:20                                     31.17                         37.90%

    The teams are even on turnovers.  The good news is that Philadelphia's time-of-possession stat tells you one important thing about this game. The Eagles are a passing team.  This plays into Denver's strength.   It's also encouraging that as a passing team, the Eagles' 3rd-down-conversion percentage isn't higher.  This again bodes well for Denver, especially if Denver can shut down DeSean Jackson on special teams.

    The traditional thinking is that home field advantage adds about 3 extra points of value.  In this game, I'd also remove that off the top because this is a homecoming for Brian Dawkins.  With the kind of love that city has for BDawk, you might as well add three points for the visitors.  Dawkins is going to put the lime in the coconut and drink em both together after this win.   Ramblers, start ramblin'.  

    Hail, Brian Dawkins!!   

    Last stat: 99.99% (percentage chance that they would let Brian Dawkins have the alias Mr. Black, without fighting).

    Comment 65 comments  |  11 recs  | 

    Do you like this story?

    Comments

    Display:

    Nice work. I'd tip you but I don't believe in it.

    Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal.

    by MrFNSunshine on Dec 23, 2009 9:53 AM MST reply actions  

    The last think you need, MrFNSunshine, it another cup of coffee

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 10:16 AM MST up reply actions  

    Dude, you don't have to cut off an ear

    and pour gasoline all over it to make your point. Be happy that you’re a self-made man.
    By the way, I don’t tip!

    Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

    by KaptainKirk on Dec 23, 2009 9:53 AM MST reply actions  

    I know you would never talk, Kap, so it wouldn't be worth it!

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 10:22 AM MST up reply actions  

    Mark Twain once commented,

    “He’s a self-made man, which takes a huge responsibility away from the Almighty.” TJ, on the other hand, Mark would have liked!

    Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

    by Doc Bear on Dec 23, 2009 10:25 AM MST up reply actions  

    Nothing like cold logic

    to bring out the artist, philosopher, or plain ol’ literate in us. Twain quotes are always appropriate. Thanks, Emmett and TJ!

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 24, 2009 7:26 AM MST up reply actions  

    I'm glad to see you're optimistic about us improving 3rd down efficiency.

    Because it’s just killing us in games. Also the big play really hurt us against Oakland. Too many big running plays. It shows you that every play has to be done with intensity and purpose – no plays off ever for a team that wants to win consistently. I saw too many players letting up on blocks or not fighting through blocks until the whistle blew which will get you beat every time in the NFL. Let’s hope the team shows more intensity for sixty minutes against the Eagles. Oh and thank you once again for the excellent analysis Dude.

    Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein

    by Ponderosa on Dec 23, 2009 9:55 AM MST reply actions  

    Sugar coat it any way you want!

    As long as you have Orton at QB it doesn’t matter what stats we drag out. He is a “good at best” qb when you are ahead as he manages the game decently. Get behind and there is little to no chance of recovering. Combine that with a first year head coach and your not going to convert on 3rd downs… I would rather see stats based on first year coaches, and avg. qb’s, I would bet they would closely relate to our woes on 3rd down, and more importantly our woes at coming from behind.

    by dbfannwis on Dec 23, 2009 1:03 PM MST up reply actions  

    db, Emmett Smith is coming out with a piece tomorrow in which he shows the records of..

    Bill Walsh, Chuck Knoll, etc. They had much worse records than McDaniels. You should check that out. You might be interesting in seeing it. Your idea about running a piece about 1st year coaches is intriguing, but I suspect it will show that McDaniels is far ahead of them. But I’ll add this research to something to do after week 16. Thanks for the idea, man.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 3:28 PM MST up reply actions  

    Pittsburgh was ready to roast Noll on a spit after his first season.

    Nothing like a snappy 1-13 to get the fans right on your side. Then they were ready to roast him again for drafting an idiot quarterback from a small school with the #1 pick the Steelers got with that 1-13 record.

    by ClarkFan on Dec 23, 2009 8:10 PM MST up reply actions  

    Clark, you got it! Amazing in our current society how quickly we go to judge.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 9:36 PM MST up reply actions  

    You know what this is? It’s the world’s smallest violin playing just for the waitresses.

    Thanks so much for this Mr. Lebo !

    I’m only a third of the way through, but your writing has me high on believing, and gives me hope for our offense.

    Merry Christmas !

    by Jenna Talia on Dec 23, 2009 9:58 AM MST reply actions  

    JT...

    If history hold true, they will be above 40% next year. Now, let’s go get a taco…

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 10:24 AM MST up reply actions  

    Thanks TJ,

    another great Stats…….

    That 3rd down efficiency has been a thorn all year and it’s sure been frustrating……

    "A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
    "Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

    by bchiper on Dec 23, 2009 10:07 AM MST reply actions  

    Bchip, clearly this year we're going to have to hope that the turnovers and defense get us in..

    ..and keep us in the playoffs..Next year we will improve in that area, mark it down.

    As always, respeeect!.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 10:25 AM MST up reply actions  

    You're probably right,

    But, I was hoping we’d see more improvement in that area as the year went by and we haven’t. That’s probably why I find it so frustrating. KO seemed to be better on changing the play at the line the first part of the year also. That has changed and seems to be part of the issue now as well IMO.

    "A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
    "Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

    by bchiper on Dec 23, 2009 10:52 AM MST up reply actions  

    Somehow, can this be related to Like a Virgin

    "Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
    "Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
    "Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
    "H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
    "It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman

    by Broncoman on Dec 23, 2009 10:08 AM MST reply actions  

    It's a metaphor for big...plays on 3rd down, man.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 10:26 AM MST up reply actions  

    Like a first down on third and short........touched for the very first time.

    I’m not so sure. That’s a stretch.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 23, 2009 11:06 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

    Stats leading up to 3rd downs?

    Given: we have been terrible on 3rd down and it is difficult to be successful that way.

    Is it that the Denver O is not moving on first and second down (or IS moving, but then gets called for a crutial penalty somewhere) or are we just not converting third-and-shorts?

    I would be curious to see stats that break down the difference. Are we converting third-and-shorts at an average percentage or not converting third-and-longs at all?

    And what is the definition of “and-short” vs “and-long?” In my mind it’s greater or less than 3 yards. Admittedly, third-and-three is different than third-and-once (or inches).

    Thoughts?

    by RalphW on Dec 23, 2009 10:16 AM MST reply actions  

    Ralph, first, thanks for reading. I appreciate anyone who can slug through this much data and emerge

    unscathed on the other side. I think I might go back in and add more down data, but here you go:

    1st down Runs:-Average 4.2 yards
    1st down passes-Average 7.02 yards

    2nd down runs-Average: 4.71 yards
    2nd down passes-Average: 5.99 yards

    3rd down runs- Average: 2.62 yards
    3rd down passes-Average: 5.17

    Does this help you out a little?

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions  

    Thanks, TJ

    I guess I am curious about our average 3rd down yards to go. i.e. – on average, third down we are faced with 3rd and ?.

    I am looking forward Sunday vs. Eagles, to see how we respond from that Indy loss (as 12/20 did not happen!).

    Thanks again & best regards.

    by RalphW on Dec 23, 2009 10:52 AM MST up reply actions  

    Ah, Got you Ralph, okay, here you go:

    Rushing:
    3rd and 1 to 1: 23 attempts, Average: 3.22
    3rd and 3 to 5: 10 attempts, Average: 1.88
    3rd and 6 to 10: 4 attempts, Averge: 1.55
    3rd and 10+: 2 attempt, Average 2

    Passing:
    3rd and 1 to 3: 15 attempts, Average: 4.71
    3rd and 3 to 5: 44 attempts, Average: 5.14
    3rd and 6 to 10: 64 attempts, Average 5.59
    3rd and 11 to 15: 15 attempts, Average 4.87
    3rd and 16+: 10 attempts, Average 3.7

    Alright, my friend. You be the stats guy for a moment. What does this data tell you, especially on the passes?

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 11:09 AM MST up reply actions  

    It doesn't tell me much. It does draw some assumptions, though.

    To start, that third and 1 statistic really boggles my mind. Is the average column that you are showing the average numbers of yards we get on that given situation? We average over 3 yards per carry on third and 1? That seems high to me with our conversion rate being so low. I thought about it and I think that we may have some outliers of long runs. The defense stacks the line and braces for a short run and once the RB breaks through, there is nothing but grass. That probably raises the average. Like that Knowshon run for a TD against the chiefs. That was a 3rd and 1, if I remember correctly. I don’t think it was 4th and 1 because we were in field goal range if I remember correctly.

    Anyways, I’m interested like Ralph, though. He mentioned something about 3rd and 1’s getting pulled back by a crucial penalty. I wonder how many times have we had a penalty to move us from 3rd and 1 to 3rd and 6? It seems like quite a bit, just from my own memory.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 23, 2009 11:21 AM MST up reply actions  

    KB, your reading is correct, but I had a typo, It was 3rd and 1 to 2 yard.

    It is possible that there are some outliers. In fact, Denver has had 48 plays out of 400 go for more than 10 yards. However, we’ve only been stuffed 33 times all year at the line of scrimmage. This is out of 400 total carries. We are 18th in the league in this category, so I’m thinking that because the the plays that have been stuffed are so magnified, they tend to stick out in our minds, and as such, it “seems” like it is happening more and more.

    Regarding the penalties, Denver is averaging only 1.2 penalty-first downs per game, so they are not really benefiting like other teams are from this stat. For example, Philadelphia gets 2.7 penalty-first downs per game.

    Good questions, KB.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 11:36 AM MST up reply actions  

    That makes sense.

    So, we have got to eliminate penalties in the eagles game, too. We can’t make their lives easier and convert almost 3 3rd downs for them. Thanks for the answers, Dude.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 23, 2009 11:45 AM MST up reply actions  

    We need a psychologist

    In the mix to clear this one up for us:

    I wonder how many times have we had a penalty to move us from 3rd and 1 to 3rd and 6? It seems like quite a bit, just from my own memory.

    “Seems like quite a bit…” to me too: but I think these just REALLY HURT; like if you were being tortured by being yelled at for three hours, and then had a fingernail ripped out for 13 seconds, which part would loom large in your memory? As a math guy I’d estimate our third-down-fail by penalty rate is in the 0.2-0.8% range, but as a fan it seems like half the d@#% time!

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 24, 2009 7:34 AM MST up reply actions  

    Ha! Good point, PI, I agree, then when I go back and look at the numbers, I think

    what in the hell? It can’t be!!

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 24, 2009 11:37 AM MST up reply actions  

    Very true.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 24, 2009 1:02 PM MST up reply actions  

    Thank you (mini "Stats don't lie")

    Okay, here goes:

    1. I would tend to believe that McD knows what he’s doing. On 3rd and 1 we have a balanced run to pass ratio (60%-40%). I believe that this keeps the D from stacking the line and guessing run everytime. Both short yardage run(3.22 yards per) and completed passes (4.71 yards per) are suffecient.

    I am a big P. Hillis supporter and would love to see him get the ball more, but if he only comes in on short-yardage situations, it’s a dead give-a-way that its gonig to be a run up the gut. No Charles Bronson, Chuck Norris, or even Steven Segal needed here either…

    Contrary to what I thought coming in, it seems that 3rd and short is NOT our big problem.

    2. On 3rd and 3-5 (19% run, 81% pass), again the yards per seem to be suffecient. 1.88 on the ground is not going to get the job done, but the small sample size (10 runs to 44 passes) can be the culprit here. 5.14 per via pass works. That also leads me to believe that the play calling is also not the problem.

    3. 3rd and 6+ WOW! 51% of all 3rd down plays are 6+ (empahasis on the PLUS). that’s 95 of 187 third down plays. 3rd and 6+ is a difficult situation and certainly a ‘passing down,’ but the numbers here are abismal and disproportionatley pass plays (which makes sense). Unfortunately the yards per are well under the yards needed to convert. What I take from that is; we have to do a much better job of staying out of 3rd and 6+ situations. That sounds rather remedial, but it’s true nonetheless. At this rate, we may as well punt or throw a hail mary!

    4. 10 3rd and 16+ situations? That seems high to me. Taken in context, it’s less that 1 situation like this per game, but still seems like too many. I might attribute this to penalties or sacks. If that is the case, it points very glaringly to a need for improvements in fundamentals.

    Thoughts? Am I looking at this correctly? or is there something I am missing?

    by RalphW on Dec 23, 2009 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

    Ralph, yes, good analysis. Especially point 3. We keep getting into these situations, don't we?

    If you had to put your finger on the biggest problem this entire year, it’s point 3, man.

    Good work, my friend.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 9:40 PM MST up reply actions  

    Why doe it get worse the farther we are

    wouldn’t you think it be opposite, with softer underneath stuff on the 3&longs?

    CentSports free 10 cents to bet with Better than Fantasy Football, pick'em!!
    Fe fi fo fum, Philly here we come

    by RiG on Dec 23, 2009 5:12 PM MST up reply actions  

    Rig, that's the point, it gets worse. Big big problem. Big.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 9:41 PM MST up reply actions  

    Well, 3rd and 5 becomes a serious problem

    The rushing game gets nothing and the passing game doesn’t get enough. With the running game so “meh” teams can tee off on Orton, which doesn’t leave time for anything to develop.

    by ClarkFan on Dec 23, 2009 8:01 PM MST up reply actions  

    Yeah, and

    We constantly seem to run routes short of the first down marker when faced with 3rd and anything between 5 and 15. Counting too much on YAC, maybe?

    - Nick

    "We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

    by ncm42 on Dec 24, 2009 10:57 AM MST up reply actions  

    by the way, awesome picture of Mile High!!!!!

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 11:10 AM MST up reply actions  

    Thanks

    Funny story about how I got there. Being from Pennsylvania, I told my wife that while we were in Colorado Springs on a business trip, I wanted (had) to make a pilgramige to “Mile High.” Once we got there, I asked her to get her camera out because she was “going to get a picture of me on the field even if it’s a picture of me being tackled by security.”

    Thankfully that was not the case…Though I was grilled with Bronco’s trivia to prove my allegiance (I passed!) and had to show my PA driver’s lisence to prove my story was true! Well worth it!

    by RalphW on Dec 23, 2009 12:26 PM MST up reply actions  

    so...

    if we throw on first and second down, we’ll never face a third down, is that what this shows? Whachagot for field position info tied to the numbers? Even with the replacement of ol’ Mikey boy, we still can’t put the ball in the box, Why?

    by dbfannwis on Dec 23, 2009 1:08 PM MST up reply actions  

    db, I have to run for a bit, but I'll see what I can dig up for you regarding this..

    I am a huge proponent of winning the field position battle, as you probably know.

    When you say Mikey Boy, you mean Shanny?

    Just want to make sure we are talking about the same Mike.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 3:22 PM MST up reply actions  

    yes, Coach Shanny, on a side note, Chicago or Dallas?

    by dbfannwis on Dec 26, 2009 9:07 AM MST up reply actions  

    or washington?

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 26, 2009 10:56 AM MST up reply actions  

    Thanks T.J.

    There’s nothing like cold hard facts to humble a guy’s gut feelings. I was stunned to learn that there is logic and fact backing the decision to run right so often.

    I learn more from these pieces than from any other feature on this site…and considering the quality of all the analysis, thats saying something about the insight you provide.

    The selfish, they're all standing in line
    Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
    Me, I figure as each breath goes by
    I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

    by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 23, 2009 10:29 AM MST reply actions  

    PO, Can't tell you how good it is to hear that. I'll remember this when it's 2am on Tuesday night

    and I think to myself, “no one gives a d$%m about the top 5 in each category, man!”

    Things start to emerge when one gets a big enough sample size. They can’t run from the facts.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 11:12 AM MST up reply actions  

    As bitter as I am over this 2-6 streak we're on, I am still optimistic that the team is moving in the right direction.

    I hope the stats are right about our projected improvement on 3rd down conversions next year.

    Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal.

    by MrFNSunshine on Dec 23, 2009 10:33 AM MST reply actions  

    Thanks for the great comments thus far. I just added in average yards gaine per down on both rush and pass to demonstrate

    …the room for improvement next year.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 10:41 AM MST reply actions  

    Good post

    After losing to the faders, how can I possibly believe we can beat the Eagles?

    Oh that’s right, we lost to the Redskins then destroyed the Giants….go Broncos!

    Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

    The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

    by Tim Lynch on Dec 23, 2009 10:53 AM MST reply actions  

    I'll use some John Clayton logic on you:

    We beat the Raiders and only lost by 1 in the two games.

    The Raiders destroyed the Eagles.

    So we are going to destroy the Eagles!

    Flawed, but I’ll take if it suites me!

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

    If only football worked on the rules of Euclidean geometry

    Either it is, or it is not, there is no probability.

    Then we would definitely crush the Eagles.

    I think we do anyway, but mostly because Orton, Dawk, and even Champ take a leadership seat that Champ and DJ alone could not do last year, and get this loose assemblage of surprisingly good players to man up as a team instead of quietly exiting stage left like last year.

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 24, 2009 7:40 AM MST up reply actions  

    So, will Dawk recieve more cheers or boos when he steps out of the tunnel in Phily?

    Or crawls or jumps or screams or karate chops out of the tunnel? Frankly, Dawk is so emotional, he is liable to do anything when he comes out of the tunnel.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 23, 2009 11:07 AM MST reply actions  

    I think BDawk could put one of his adamantium claws right through McNabb

    Hey KB, Taylor Swift’s music ain’t that bad. Don’t let them tell you it is. LOL

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 11:15 AM MST up reply actions  

    haha, I'd like to see that. We shouldn't get flagged, either. The refs wouldn't want to be on Dawk's bad side. After all, he just clawed McNabb on the field.

    I never said I was a fan of Taylor Swift music. Country music isn’t my thing, but young blondes sure are. ;)

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 23, 2009 11:24 AM MST up reply actions  

    Cheers definately!

    Philly fans feel like the organization let him leave. He is still a big part of the community from all of the things he did over the years…giving that guy the the Eagles fired for “Facebook posting his dissatisfaction” his tickets to the game helped, too.

    Strangely enough, they are hurting in their secondary as well…

    by RalphW on Dec 23, 2009 3:49 PM MST up reply actions  

    Great stats TJ.

    I am not sure we can handle the Eagles high flying offense and if our offense doesn’t move the ball whether it’s on 1st, 2nd or 3rd down then we will lose this game. We had great success with the Giants and I am not comparing the Eagles to them but they do certain things much the same and the success we had was controlling the line of scrimmage and getting the running game going. If Buckhalter isn’t 100% healthy then why not let Hillis pound the rock 10-12 times instead of Jordan. Jordan didn’t impress me very much in his play against Oakland and Hillis at least has good hands to catch the ball. Pound the ball with Hillis and Moreno, control the clock and we will win this game. We don’t and we lose. 10-6 baby!!! Until we ain’t.

    by bfree2bronc on Dec 23, 2009 2:57 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

    I think that's the question many of us are asking.

    What would it hurt to let him have 10 or 12 carries in a game this year, and see how he does? Sadly, we will never know. He’s not getting the ball, simply put. And he’s gone after this year.

    - Nick

    "We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

    by ncm42 on Dec 23, 2009 3:53 PM MST up reply actions  

    Hey ncm, I don't mind if Hillis gets carries. Never have had a problem with that.

    But my larger point is that he’s not going to do much better than Moreno (perhaps worse) in these situations. Still, I like Hillis, and I’d prefer him over Jordan. But that’s just my personal preference. The O-Line is what will determine the success of this team.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 23, 2009 9:44 PM MST up reply actions  

    Love your Tarantino

    and couldn’t agree more about the O-line. I’m worried. Worried that maybe all the dinking around with O-line schemes this year could have a fed up Bobby Turner running to join Shanny in the spring.

    Not that I’ve seen any sign of it, or heard any rumors (not trying to start one here, honest), but man, that would be a painful loss for us.

    "All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.

    by broncosmontana on Dec 23, 2009 9:57 PM MST up reply actions  

    I would hate to see Turner go.

    Dennison, I could live with.

    Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal.

    by MrFNSunshine on Dec 23, 2009 10:21 PM MST up reply actions  

    Thanks, Montana. You know I have some lolita references just for you.

    But the right week just hasn’t shown itself for the quotes.

    I watched it a few weeks ago just to make sure it was a funny as I remember.

    I’ll bet you that Turner will bolt. McD wants to bring his power game in and Turner is the master of the zone scheme. Just my opinion, however.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 24, 2009 11:40 AM MST up reply actions  

    I mostly agree

    I don’t particularly care if his carries come on 3rd down or 1st or 2nd, I’d just like to see him get some carries.

    - Nick

    "We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

    by ncm42 on Dec 24, 2009 10:59 AM MST up reply actions  

    Excellent job on the stats, TJ.

    From your stats, if our guys go like hell on downs 1&2 to gain 8 to 9 yds, they should have greater success on 3rd down. Maybe the idea should be to forget about 3rd downs and convert on the 2nd. Those plays probably won’t include inside the tackle runs until the D isn’t stacked anymore.

    Nice analysis on the upcoming game on Sunday, TJ. The stats are close. I think that the game will be won in the 4th Q. This is not a gimme for Philly. I see our guys playing close if they don’t win. I am giving them better than a 50-50 shot at winning.

    Nice work. Thanks for your energy and time. Keep up the good work.

    by Blackknigh on Dec 23, 2009 11:31 PM MST reply actions  

    Great Stats, dude

    Two big points:

    1) IMHO, Hillis is not running because our system often requires a FB and Larsen (a much, much better FB) is not 100%. Hillis as imperfect FB > Hillis as exciting, irregular, some-fumble-risk TB, at least in our coach’s mind.

    2) McDaniels has beat the drum of “keeping on schedule” (1st & 10, 2nd & 5, 3rd & 1) all year, but our team, for EXACTLY the reasons TJ illustrates, keeps seeing 1st & 20, 2nd & 10, and 3rd & 6. That gets better.

    It’s not because coach is an idiot or Moreno is a bust, it’s because we’re effectively an expansion team (60% turnover) with a rookie coach; they are all driving in the right direction, and our success this year is very encouraging.

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 24, 2009 7:48 AM MST reply actions  

    Hallelujah!!!

    Preach it, brother!!

    The selfish, they're all standing in line
    Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
    Me, I figure as each breath goes by
    I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

    by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 24, 2009 8:34 AM MST up reply actions  

    Your Hillis point makes some sense

    But when we’re in a one back set, as we spent a lot of time against OAK, Hills as FB and Hillis as change of pace back to give KM a breather are not mutually exclusive.

    - Nick

    "We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

    by ncm42 on Dec 24, 2009 11:00 AM MST up reply actions  

    PI, I had not considered the point about Larsen. Excellent work, my friend. It's such a good point

    I wished I had consulted with you first!!!

    Great stuff. You can take that 3rd-down improvement and cash it in next year. It will happen (barring a new starting QB, which I don’t see happening).

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 24, 2009 11:42 AM MST up reply actions  

    Comments For This Post Are Closed


    User Tools

    MileHighReport(MHR) is the ultimate independent resource for the Denver Broncos on the web. Along with MHR Radio, the official podcast of MHR, we look to provide hardcore Denver Broncos fans positive, independent insight about the Broncos, 24/7/365!

    FanPosts

    Community blog posts and discussion.

    Recommended FanPosts

    Ph_small
    2011: MHR I Need Your Help With An Upcoming Post
    Zozobra_small
    Explaining What "IT" Is that Tebow Has: An Analysis of the Art of Miracles
    Pumpkin_small
    The risk/reward analysis on drafting RBs earlier vs later
    Images-2_small
    Calling out IAOFM
    Fabio_elway_grade_small
    What the Broncos have already made this offseason

    Recent FanPosts

    Denver-broncos-wallpaper_1__small
    The Solution
    Pumpkin_small
    MLBs - what we have and what Fox and Del Rio historically want
    Small
    It's the most wonderful time of the year!
    Small
    Mock Offseason 2.0
    Images_small
    outsider look on some potential Denver FA targets
    La_la_land_small
    1st Round Mock-Don't Read It If You Don't Like Mocks
    Small
    Needs based FA and Draft by position
    Small
    It Might Be Time to go Poaching
    Work___family_062_small
    I Hate This!

    + New FanPost All FanPosts >

    Getting Social With MHR

    Facebook_badge_medium_medium
    Black_generated_button

    Milehighreport_email_medium

    Web Stuff


     

    Listed on BlogShares Top NFL Fan Sites


    General Manager/Head Coach

    Milehighreport_small John Bena

    2011_small KaptainKirk

    Asst. Head Coach

    Dadndaughter_small Tim Lynch

    2_small Sayre Bedinger

    Bronco-pride_small Brian Shrout

    Broncohoodie_in_africa_small Troy Hufford

    Position Coach

    182px-jesus_small Jezru

    Flag_canada_small Colby

    Img_0007_small Topher Doll

    Small zsheely

    2011-12-10_23 IanHenson

    Hottie_small Sarah_Marshall

    Quality Control

    800px-john_brown_painting_small mdierk