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Around SBN: So Let's Talk About Hulk Too, I Suppose

Potent Quotables - The Philly Aftermath

Opening comments

"Like I said yesterday, we certainly had our opportunities there in the second half and really couldn't convert on enough plays in the critical situations where we had opportunities there in the fourth quarter to win the game. That's really all phases. Offensively, we couldn't really convert on the opportunities that we had with good field position late in the fourth quarter when the game was either tied or we were down by three. Defensively, we did a decent job of keeping them backed up for the better part of the second half, in particular in the fourth quarter there before the third-and-25 play, which was may be the most critical play of the game in terms of swinging field position. We stopped them at the end of that drive, I think, but ultimately, they punted to us, (we were) backed up, we couldn't get it out, punted it back to them and ended up giving up a field goal as a result. The kicking game, we did a decent job of taking advantage of some opportunities that we had (and) forced a couple fumbles on the kickoff team. (We) did not punt the ball particularly well against a good returner. We didn't allow a lot of return yards but still didn't affect field position the way that we would hope to. All in all, just didn't do enough late in the game when we had an opportunity in a close game on the road against a good football team to win the game."

Star-divide

On if he is familiar with all of the Broncos' playoff scenarios

"I'm briefed, I would say, on what they are. Again I'll say the same thing, the only thing we can control is what we do and how we play and how we prepare for the (Kansas City) Chiefs. I don't think hoping for something else to happen while you're playing or while you're getting ready to play the game is going to do you any good. We understand that we have a chance. We understand that we have a chance not to be in even if we do win. I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking about scenarios, though."

On focusing on the Broncos' opportunities rather than difficulties

"We can go back through the season if you want to talk about opportunities. Every week we have an opportunity to play our best football, put our best performance out there, our best coaching or whatever it may be. Looking backward, I don't know other than to try to learn from your mistakes, I don't really think it does a whole lot of good for you. Ultimately, we know this: we can win, and we can play longer. If that's the case and you get into the playoffs, you never know what could happen. It's a one-game-at-a-time season. To sit here and think back about some of the things that we wish we could change isn't going to benefit us right now other than to learn from the things that we didn't do well the last few weeks in particular (and) try to make those positives against the Chiefs and see if we can win the game and then hope that we get an opportunity to play longer."

On if he spoke with WR Brandon Stokley about his ejection

"I did. Brandon, very professional, felt terrible about not being able to help his teammates, our team, play the rest of the game. (It was an) unfortunate situation. I understand-I think there was contact, inadvertently, I think. I don't think anybody would do that on purpose. He's an emotional guy and just felt like there was a foul on the play. We'll move on from that and understand what it was."

On Indianapolis deciding to rest some of their starters during their loss to the N.Y. Jets yesterday

"It's different for each team. It's hard for me to speak about what they want to do and what their philosophy is. I'm not in their situation. Ultimately, what matters the most is what happens in the postseason. Their season is going to be determined by what they do when the playoffs start, not what happened yesterday."

On if some NFL teams have earned the right to rest players late in the season

"(The Indianapolis Colts) certainly have the right to do whatever they want to do. They've earned the right to do and choose to play however they want to play the rest of the way because of what they've done up to this point this year. Nobody's going to argue with the fact they've earned the No. 1 seed and home-field advantage and all the rest of it. Once you've put yourself in that position, really you're dealing with an organizational philosophy or decision on what to do. That's not our business. Our business is to try to win and put ourselves in position so we don't have to depend on somebody to play their guys late."

On the difficulty playing a division opponent for the second time in the season

"I think that the second time you play any opponent, the game is different. It was with San Diego. It was with Oakland. It is a lot of times when you see divisional teams play each other. The team knows you a lot better. You know them a lot better. It's harder to get away from them because usually in that first game, they get your best shot in terms of scheme and all the rest of the stuff that they haven't seen before, and then that second game around the scheme's fairly consistent. Because we just played the Chiefs recently-four weeks ago, whatever it may be-now it's even fresher on our mind, on their mind. It's late December, early January, a divisional game (and there's) a lot on the line. I would imagine it will be a close one. They played really well yesterday (at Cincinnati). I haven't seen the whole thing yet but played hard and took Cincinnati down to the wire in Cincinnati. There are a lot of things to change from the first time you play a team to the second time. I wouldn't suspect that this would be any different."

On the Broncos' 2-6 record in the last eight contests

"There are a lot of little things that go into winning and losing. We can talk about running the ball and tackling, but as late as Kansas City, we ran the ball pretty well and tackled pretty well. You're playing good football teams at the end of the season that are all playing their best, a lot of them playing for something. You've got to make some plays toward the end of the game by doing your job that affect the outcome of the game. We've put ourselves in position to win games-down by five late in the (Indianapolis) game; ahead late in the Oakland game; and tied yesterday in the fourth quarter, really, with (Philadelphia)-and at that point in time we've got to continue to do our job and try to make positive plays that will ultimately win the game. You can put yourself in position to win the game by playing well for a certain period of time, but if you don't ultimately make that scramble for 27 yards on third-and-25 or do whatever you need to do, ultimately, to determine the outcome because a lot of these games are tied late. Cincinnati-Kansas City was tied late yesterday. Pittsburgh-Baltimore was tied late yesterday. Somebody's going to do something and they're going to win the game, and somebody's not. We've been in position, and we've made plays to win games late during the course of the season this year, too. We just haven't done it the last few weeks. It's definitely come back to hurt us."

On why the Broncos aren't making game-changing plays late in the game like they were earlier in the season

"It's not that (the players) don't want to. It's not that we're not playing hard. It's not that we're not trying to do what we're asking them to do. It's not that we're not coaching or preparing hard. It's football, and sometimes you're going to do some of those things and sometimes you're not. There's no blame on one particular aspect because we all have a share in this and we can all affect the outcome of the game in different ways. Everybody's just got to continue to work hard and push through and fight and try to do their job, do their part. Ultimately, if you have enough guys doing that, you're going to make the play to win the game."

On the Broncos' running game during

"Let me just say this: yesterday, we did not win the line of scrimmage offensively, period. When I say that, I'm not talking about the backs. We did not win the line of scrimmage offensively, and they did a great job defensively of being more physical than we were up front. They knocked us back into the backfield quite a few times and held us on a third-and-one. We did convert a short-yardage situation, but ultimately when we watch the running game, we're watching what's going on at the line of scrimmage. If we're not winning the line of scrimmage, like I said before, it doesn't matter what back you have, doesn't matter who you're handing the ball to, you're not going to do a whole lot. I'm not taking blame off the backs because they certainly can do a better job of reading certain plays and all the rest of that, but it starts with what we do up front. We know that as an organization. We know that as an offense. I think everybody knows that around the National Football League. Until we win the line of scrimmage, which we've done this year a number of times, you're not going to run the ball very well. That's just the bottom line."

Comment 13 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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If you want to win the line of scrimmage, IMO, with our OL: Zone Block.

ZB is what our guys are familiar with. They have done it for years. They won the Line of Scrimmage in previous years doing just that. Certainly you are open to Zone Blitzes, but with the guys that we have now, this is how we can get maximum movement at this time. Other offensive players are aware of the pitfalls of ZB and will adjust accordingly.

No matter what our line does, there are pitfalls. So IMO deal with the situation from our strengths.

Sorry, I am a little pissed at our coach. I think that he is ignoring something that he could use and trying to berate players into doing something that they are not prepared for either physically or experiencially.

Thanks for your post, John.

by Blackknigh on Dec 28, 2009 4:22 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

They have ran it for years?

Clady ran zoneblock for one year (and BSU’s zone plays were not like the Denver kind), Hochstein has never run it, Polumbus was a PS player in it for a year, but has never played a real game in it, and Weigmann was in an athletic iso system at KC, simialr to what McD is trying to install, and so was only a zoneblocker for one year with Shanny.

Hamilton is a pure zoneblocker, and Kuper has been zone block for three years. Even Harris, if he were playing, only has one full year playing in a zoneblock scheme. Everyone except Kuper was primarily passblockers while Cutler was here too, which shouldn’t be ignored. The Broncos haven’t been an awesome running team for years.

Generally we have a lighter line, which doesn’t make them automatic zoneblockers. Zoneblocking is ten times more difficult to run than what McDaniels is trying to institute right now, so I wouldn’t say they are experientially more suited to it.

The best “zoneblock case” that can be made would be that they have skillsets that are more suited to zoneblock…

Clady has a skillset that is suited to anything, as does Harris. Shanny was already trying to move to bigger players, but he was still focused on exceptional athleticism. Kuper is a little light, but not any lighter than many good nonzoneblock lineman around the league. He is also quite strong, one of the strongest Bronco lineman since Nalen. He is a great candidate for switching to an “erhardt-Perkins” scheme. Weigmann is small, but he came from a scheme similar to what McD is installing. He would probably be better off running zone, especially if he is playing next to Hamilton, but it isn’t like he has years of practice in it. He is just a savvy vet who seems to be outlasting his usefulness. Polumbus is a bit of a wildcard, since his ceiling may be as a backup, but I think keeping it simple, in a man system might be for the best. He is a lighter player, but that doesn’t mean he would awesome at zoneblock. Harris is similar to Clady in that he is versatile, and could probably do both equally well, but he came from an erhardt-perkins style of offense in college, so going back to it is not a bad move.

All in all, looking back on past Bronco success really isn’t a valid way of addressing problems going forward. McDaniels believes in the erhardt-perkins not just because he was brought up in it, but because it has objectively valid reasons for being a good scheme for a town like Denver, which can expect to play a lot of important football games in inclement weather conditions.

This team needs to get mentally and physically tougher if they want to last. Switching to a finnesse offensive style plays into all of their worst habits….

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Dec 28, 2009 5:01 PM MST up reply actions   3 recs

This is

without a doubt the best analysis of our O-Line I have seen this year. I really hope we are able to keep Kuper next year and have the time to get really well-schooled and playing together in the erhardt-perkins scheme. Well written styg! Thanks.

It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09

by firstfan on Dec 28, 2009 7:43 PM MST up reply actions  

Jeremy - Rec'd and Thank You

I,m also getting a little tired of the misinformation that is constantly appearing on this subject. It’s also worth nothing that whoever the personnel, the smaller, lighter Denver O-line has tended to have problems late in the season since at least 2005. I appreciate your putting the record straight – well researched, well stated, well done. Much appreciated

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Dec 28, 2009 11:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Excellent analysis, Styg.

I have been reading this site for about a year. Before that, I got my info from DP and RMN. I was led to believe that our OL was living with ZB. Guess I opened my mouth to change feet. Thanks for your insight and explanations, Jeremy. I think that I will save this post for future reference. It is, as ff notes, the best analysis of our OL this year.

Thanks again.

by Blackknigh on Dec 28, 2009 11:16 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm glad to hear McD say this!

This was the problem for several years under Shanny. We always did a lot of nice fancy stuff, but generally lost because we were just straight up getting pushed around, outmuscled and beaten up. McD understands this and I think he will look to address this via draft and free agency.

I’ve been noticing this trend all day. There are some who are questioning McD and play calling and whatnot. But I think its pretty clear that this Bronco team is not as talented as the elite teams. Its just that simple.

Shanahan refused to address this, that is why he is gone. McD gets it, I hope he can pull off the rebuild (I do think he can).

by charlesnelsonreilly on Dec 28, 2009 7:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Who is the idiot asking these stupid questions?

Who cares what the coach of the Broncos thinks about resting Indy’s players. He’s the coach of the Broncos you numbskull.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Dec 28, 2009 4:40 PM MST reply actions  

Relevant Question

I would not expect McDaniels to say something like, “Yeah, that really ticked me off because it hurts our playoff chances.” McDaniels is right to focus on what the Broncos can affect, and ultimately they made their own bed particularly with losses to the Raiders and Redskins.

On the other hand, the Colts gifting the Jets a win does significantly affect the Broncos playoff chances as things stand now.

Keep Moving Forward.

by ColoradoOwl on Dec 28, 2009 8:45 PM MST up reply actions  

isn't predictability part of it?

Isn’t part of winning the l.o.s. making the other team “stay home” on all plays? I feel like our play calling has been so conservative and predictable, it lends itself to teh other team stacking up their D, and thus us losing the LOS. Very frustrating to watch. How do you call backward screens on 3rd and 13 when you are behind. And don’t tell me it is because Ortan can’t throw it 14 yards because he certainly can.

by Bradoncadonc on Dec 28, 2009 4:45 PM MST reply actions  

I think the reason you call a screen on 3rd and long is simple.

  You expect the defense to bring a heavy blitz., or you catch them dropping into coverage. The problem lies in that if the o-line can’t get in position to block, the screen gets blown up for a loss.

by newby on Dec 28, 2009 6:35 PM MST reply actions  

There is another consideration though

If you have a tendency to run it a majority of the time in certain defined situations, a historically smart D like Philly’s is going to be prepared for it and is going to defend it well. Not saying that’s the situation with us, as I would not even begin to know the percentage of time we run it on, say, 3rd and between 7 and 13 or something.

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Dec 28, 2009 6:43 PM MST up reply actions  

Agree

And Philly has a strong blitz tendency. So, the screen call is not that bad in retrospect. Now, at that time it happened, I was yelling at the TV….

Keep Moving Forward.

by ColoradoOwl on Dec 28, 2009 8:47 PM MST up reply actions  

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