Whistling past the graveyard

by jpage78 on Dec 30, 2009 11:27 AM MST

Is it the O Line? Orton? Or McDaniels?

I say it's all three....more after the jump

After McD's press conference I decided to go take a look at game film of the last three games (ie: losing streak number two) to find get a greater understanding of the running game/.sack./third down conversion struggles...this is what I saw.

1. The O Line: Truth be told, the interior of the offensive line struggled last year as well. Not having Tom Nalen as center affected the team greater than any one position player loss of the last three years. Remember last year, as good as the O line was in not giving up sacks, they struggled mightily in converting third downs. Just like this year. Hamilton (confidence problems) and Wiegman (maybe too old) have been allowing a middle rush in some critical situations this year, and it has affected the running game up the gut more than anything else. Yet....it's not all the O line's faul

2. Orton: As I said in previous posts. Kyle is neither great nor terrible. He's right smack dab in the middle...maybe slightly to the "good" side. He's smart, can make most of the throws, and won't make too many mistakes. However, and this was a problem in Chicago as well....he has a tendency to panic. Big time. In fact, in the 25 years since I started watching football at the age of 6 I have NEVER seen anyone collapse to the ground without being touched as often as I have Kyle. God bless em but it's sad. Also, I'd say about a quarter of the frustrating short passes we have seen have been the result of KO checking down. Orton only exists in the context of the offense. When things go awry he has trouble "making plays". He is who he is, and quite frankly he has never pretended to be John Elway or Peyton Manning. If you are going to build your team about Kyle Orton you best have a top five D.

3 McDaniels: There's an expression. It's called trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. And for 15 weeks and four pre-season games we have seen McDaniels try and turn a small, zone blocking line into a power running line. This was doomed from the start. You can't scheme size and the line is not built for what McD wants. The frustrating aspect of this is much of the Broncos running success has come when they have zone blocked this year. The KC game was a masterpiece of zone blocking. The screen passes last week were frustrating to say the least. That's how BMarsh can have 8 catches for such a low average. I think McDaniels will be a good coach for us, but if there is one thing I'd like him to change it's the rigidity in play calling. It's seems like he's playing things too safe

It's a group problem...not just one unit. The D has struggled as well, but they have stepped up big time in certain situations and have given the O the opportunity to score points. It would be nice if we saw the O take advantage of these opportunities more often

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Very insightful

Thanks for the post jpage.

It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09

by firstfan on Dec 30, 2009 11:47 AM MST reply actions

thank you very much

by jpage78 on Dec 30, 2009 12:10 PM MST up reply actions

I actually believe that Denver would still have problems running the ball

even if they went back to the zone blocking scheme. I agree that the man blocking isn’t helping, but the interior o-line is putrid. Orton does seem to go down easy, but avoiding pressure is a teachable trait (I think). It’s not like he can’t be taught how to avoid the pressure. Good post.

"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".

"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.

by broncoholic on Dec 30, 2009 11:49 AM MST reply actions

pressure

I agree it can be taught…but Orton now has four years of college and five going on six years of NFL experience and quite frankly he hasn’t improved over time. He’s very skittish. Partly, it’s not about “avoiding” pressure as it is looking somewhere else other than your feet when a linebacker comes at you.

It’s a myth to say that Orton has been under constant pressure this year. 27 sacks isn’t a tremendous amount. It’s situational. Kyle needs to understand that putting your team back another 6 to 10 yards in a sack isn’t going to help us. There’s not making mistakes, and then there’s conservative to the point of lunacy.

by jpage78 on Dec 30, 2009 12:09 PM MST up reply actions

Well the five years that he has spent in the NFL has been with the Bears

who aren’t really known for their offensive schemes. That’s why I’m saying we should stick with him for at least a couple more years to see what he can TRULY be under McD’s system.

"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".

"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.

by broncoholic on Dec 30, 2009 1:33 PM MST up reply actions

Mike was rigid in his playcalling too

so thats an understandable trait in a head coach! They think they have the right idea. Remember we had a major roster rebuild this year and sometimes we kept guys we should have let go because there werent any serviceable replacements available. I think next year is the big test. two years of drafting and acquiring players to fill the system out to add to a year playing in the system should be telling of the Broncos under Coach McDaniels.

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown

by Jon Tollerud on Dec 30, 2009 12:21 PM MST reply actions

Kyle can and will make every pass, it's just a matter of player/player timing.

One pass that has swirled around my little head in the one that was intercepted at Philly. Kyle clearly under threw the ball and thus it landed in the hands of the defender. Going back to the Giants game on Turkey day Kyle hit Marshall a couple of times with passes only Brandon could catch, utilizing Marshall’s height and abilities to out muscle the defender for the ball. It would have been interesting to see the INT in Philly go about 5 feet higher. It could possibly have been a TD. As Orton and his receivers get more acquainted and get their timing down, we will begin to see those spectacular catches for more yards and scores.

On the other side of the coin, our O-Line is struggling to hold the line and that is a bad thing. I am pretty sure these issues will be addressed in the spring. I am at the point now that I can’t hardly wait for next season to start. It should be an exciting one for us and with less disappointment. Thanks for the post jpage and you can check out if you already haven’t a post written by Emmett Smith here.

by bfree2bronc on Dec 30, 2009 1:35 PM MST reply actions

Let us also keep in mind

that sacks are not all made equally. Orton has made some good decisions by just not taking a risky play and going down…however, I think there are those who are willfully ignoring the horrific sacks that KO has taken the last two weeks. I’m referring to when Kyle “sacks” himself by just falling to the turf. That is alarming because it shows panic….the point I have been making is it’s unfair to blame everything on the O line. It’s a combination of all three.

by jpage78 on Dec 30, 2009 2:41 PM MST reply actions

Orton missed several chances for first downs by forcing passes.If he just tucked the ball and ran for the first downs, they would have been converted.It’s like he is afraid to run.

I am better than everyone

by John Beaner on Dec 30, 2009 2:56 PM MST reply actions

thank you john..

I’ve been saying the samething all year. His decision making at times is atrocious.

by johnnystarr on Dec 30, 2009 4:02 PM MST up reply actions

It could be because of his ankle issue

That he got from tucking it and running for the end zone. Not to say he’s “the snake” 2.0, but he does have the ability. Might be time for the coach to yell, tuck it and run when the middle is open.

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Dec 30, 2009 5:14 PM MST up reply actions

One thing I would like to see Kyle do is hit the weight room in the off season and build up the legs.

by bfree2bronc on Dec 30, 2009 5:47 PM MST up reply actions

Completely off topic but your title reminded me of a joke:

Two Broncos fans were walking through a cemetery when they came upon a tombstone that read: Here lies Jason Smith. A good man and a raiders fan. One of the Broncos fans asks the other, “So when did they start putting two people in one grave?”

Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein

Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein

by c_style on Dec 30, 2009 3:01 PM MST reply actions

+1

lol….that’s hysterical

by jpage78 on Dec 30, 2009 3:35 PM MST up reply actions

I wonder

Since the ankle injury, is Orton being coached to just find a comfortable landing spot. I don’t know about anyone else, but I would have much rather he hit the deck rather than run at the end of the 1st half in the Redskins game. Not that I didn’t appreciate the effort, but due the the fact he isn’t much of a runner and he gets injured to boot. I say if Orton wasn’t injured on that play, we’re in the playoffs. In other words, maybe the company line is – this guy isn’t going break tackles/get yardage and since he’s got 2 bad ankles, the easiest way to keep him healthy is to have him go down. In other words, he isn’t going to make a positive play if he tries, so let’s make sure nothing terrribly negative happens. I know we’re all getting tired of how conservative the offense has become, but I think that’s what happening.

by BroncosRock! on Dec 30, 2009 3:22 PM MST reply actions