Poll Question - 1 Year Later, Are the Broncos Better Off?

I’ll take the pessimistic side and vote no.

The defense is better, and I’m pretty sure we’re going in the right direction as an organization, but right now I can’t say with full faith we’re better off. We’re not worse off, though.

It was time for change..and im glad with the direction we’re heading in…so YES

No disrespect to Shanny as a coach but his personnel moves were slowly killing the team.

We have a better team right now thanks to the great FA class of veterans that McDaniels signed, but because we faded so badly in the last 10 games and so many of our young players struggled or regressed this year, we have less untapped promise now than we did in 2008. I’m specifically speaking about the offense. I thought we were on the cusp of becoming a Top 3 offense after the 2008 season. Now… I’d settle for an average offense.

As a whole, the coaching is much better in 2009.

Take the good with the bad I suppose. 9-7 is better than 8-8. Not much, but it is better.

But I like the direction the Broncos are headed.

Let’s see what wacky roster moves McDaniels makes next… Like having 2 punters on the roster!

Brian MF Dawkins.

Oh wait, is that four?

^^

80% feels that we are better off on 2009.. that says it all.. Happy New Years everyone! Hopefully with a Broncos Playoff game!!

Even with the offensive struggles, we have a defense that I believe can get a stop at any time. I couldn’t say that the past 3 years. That alone is priceless to me as a fan of our beloved Broncos

This team was rotting from the inside under Shanahan, and it wasn’t going to get better—it was just going to be another bandage move, another fired co-ordinator, another questionable free agent. He had become Captain Bligh, spending all of his time with his precious breadfruits while the crew muttered and prepared for mutiny.

I firmly believe a Shanahan-coached team would have only won 5 or 6 games this year, if that.

Yes to always loving me some Shanahan. Yes to it was time for him to leave. Yes to those who thought one more year with him could have been interesting offensively. Yes to the huge change on defense this year brought. Yes to Brian TM Dawkins (TM=the man). Yes to one of the best young coaches to come around in a few years. Yes we are better off.

First, the record this year is a big step forward considering 11-5 wasn’t good enough to make the playoffs. This year, there is a possibility 8-8 makes the playoffs. Even though our record is virtually the same, our standing as an overall contender in the AFC has improved.

Second, let’s compare the a few key positions in the organization. I only included players that received significant playing time and omitted players that are still around.

SAF: Manual, Mcree, Lowrey vs. Dawkins, Hill, McBath/Bruton
LB: Webster, Winborn, Boss, K2 vs. Davis, Haggen,(amazing he couldn’t get on the field over those bums— Nolan vs. Slowik), Ayres
DL: Robertson, Engleberger, Mallard, Clemons vs. Fields, McBean, Reid, Smith, Holliday
CB: Bly, Paymah vs. Goodman, Smith
RB: Young, Hall, Torrain, Pittman vs. Moreno, Buckhaulter, Jordan
QB: Cutler vs.Orton
WR: D. Jackson vs. Gaffney

I would argue that we’re better off at all the above positions. TE is a push because the same two players are getting the majority of the snaps and you could say Quinn replaced Nate Jackson (push as well). The only position where we took a step backwards is OL. The talent level is essentially the same, with new guys Hochstien, Gorin, and Olson not marginally better than Gandy, Lichtensteiger, Alexandar (okay, maybe the new guys are better). However, Weigman and Hamilton struggled. I think McD went through FA and the draft thinking these guys had another year in them. They did not, and now we’re in a pretty deep hole in arguable the second most important area of the team.

The other area where I think this team took a step backward is in-game coaching. I think Mike may have squeezed one more win or two out of this current club with his in-game coaching (play calling, adjustments, time out usage, challenges, short yardage calls, two minute drill, etc.). Having said that, McDanials was nowhere near “bad” in any of these areas, imo. McDanials actually stacks up very well against most other coaches in this respect, and it’s not even close when you compare him to other first year head coaches ("Spags" and Morris looked absolutely lost at times, I never got that feeling with Josh). Mike was just a master.

Although he is my all time favorite coach, his issues with DC’s, Special teams and defenses in general were too much for me. The fact the team quit so much was another issue and finally the type of people he was bringing in bothered me as well.

Are we better off? Of course. The culture is more like what we expected as Bronco fans. Are we as good as we want NO WAY. But its the first year of a complete overhaul.

we need help to get into the playoffs in week 17. Last year we controlled our own destiny. 8-8 or 9-7, we’re still a mediocre football team, and with an aging squad. The draft needs another year to be fully evaluated, but Moreno isn’t playing like a 1st rounder, he goes down too easily. Ayers has been very average. Trading a first rounder for Alphonso Smith seemed unwise last year, given the depth of this years draft my opinion has been reinforced rather than changed.

We made huge improvements to our secondary and running game through free ageny with Hill, Dawkins, Goodman and Buck. But Simms was a complete whiff as a back-up. His incompetence cost us a playoff with the loss in Washington and forced Orton to play on one leg.

McDaniels has improved our defense, but his personnel moves have been as hit and miss as Shanahan’s were, and his play calling has been predictable and poor all season, particularly through this losing stretch. Screen pass to Clady, not using a bigger back for short yardage situations, too many bubble screens that go for zero gain.

We have a new direction, but I don’t believe we’re better off than we were a year ago.

change came at least a year or two later than should have in the first place. Ideally when Shannahan started cycling through DC’s would have been the ideal time. What was that 2006 or so?
I know not how it happened.
Loved Mike Shannahan and still believe he is a great inovator.
Is the team better that it was? Well even though the record doesn’t show it I’d have to say yes. It is more of a team that works together than a collection of great players who pad their own stats. Which, was part of the problem last year. The defense is certainly better, but, the offense has digressed some. That would be atributable to the totally new schemes that have been put in place I suppose.
I think my biggest issue is I would have expected the offense to get better as the year progressed, but they really haven’t yet. Flashes here and there only.

Maybe we’ll improve in that area next season, but this year we struggle to score points. We had to settle for field goals way to often. I agree that this team looked better, mostly because we have a defense we can count on to get stops, but the offense has been going backwards. I thought we’d improve around week 8 or 9, players becoming more comfortable in the new system. Losing Ryan Harris didn’t help, but Orton seemed to get worse as the season went on, and we became more reliant on Marshall than ever. Royal and Stokely have really had down years. Last year Stokely caught a ton of short 3rd down passes, this year he’s hardly seen the field.

Shanny had to go, but McDaniels is still very much on the hot seat regarding the offense and QB. He doesn’t trust Orton to throw fades or slants near the end zone which negates Marshall’s size and strength.

Maybe another question to ask, are we better off for hiring McDaniels and Xanders?

I think the team had tuned out Mike Shanahan and his personnel choices left a lot to be desired. I am not sure if we would be better off had Mike stayed, he made no committment to fix the defense, but you have to wonder if he would of say accepted a role where he would not have the final say in personnel (say hired someone like Scott Piolli or Rick Smith to be a strong GM), forced him to give the defense to a guy like Nolan and stay out of his way. And allowed Mike to focus on running the team and the offense where we could of been, but that assumes Mike would of given up control, and I doubt he would ever have done that.

At this point I would give the nod to Mike S. (good chance at the HOF vs a rookie head coach).

1) The defense coordinator. Shanahan tried to get someone similar to Nolan who had at the time a good track record (Bates). He also picked up who Bates wanted to try and fix the defense that did not pan out (Sam Adams the large etc.). If the defense would have been in the top 15 that year with the changes they made there is a good chance to have made the playoffs. Bates would have been kept additional year(s) (not as much DC turnover). Perhaps they would have had another playoff win. I know it didn’t work as planned. The Nolan experiment could have ended up like the Bates and had a poor defense (Fields and others played well).

2) I think that the timing of the change was when McD became available. Bowlen didn’t do it earlier because the other coaches available in previous years did not match up anywhere close to Shanahan . Bowlen really liked McD as a possible choice. Imagine if the change were a year earlier and we ended up with Jason Garret or other.

3) People are guessing that the defense would be the same. I feel that they might have been better with Slow having another year (I guess at around 20th in the league – not much better but a little). Not as good as the current crew. The offense may have gone better (fewer running backs on IR).

4) From bchiperThe ideal time to get rid of Shanahan was 2006 .
2005 they made the AFC championship game. The next year they had selected a “Franchise” QB. I don’t think that would have been a good time to get rid of Shanahan. Also note that we would not have McD if the Broncos made the change then.

5) His draft picks seemed to be getting better with the Goodmans.

Last year’s Team Stats:
Offense – 2nd in yards/game, 16th in points/game
Defense – 29th in yards allowed/game, 30th in points allowed/game

This year:
Offense – 19th in yards/game, 19th in points/game
Defense – 5th in yards allowed/game, 8th in points allowed/game

We regressed a little bit on Offense from last year but we have improved tremendously on Defense. Offense went from middle of the pack to a bit below middle of the pack, but the D went from among the worst in the league to among the best in the league.

Furthermore, the slight regression on Offense can be attributed to installing a new and complicated scheme IMO.

Bottom line, if this years Broncos team played last years Broncos team 10 times, I truely believe this years team would win 8 or 9 of them.

Are the Broncos a better offense?
Maybe, maybe not. Lot of different arguments. I don’t think the offense has progressed, nor has it regressed. Its simply swapped a few of its problems around and still has some of the same that blighted the team previously.

Are the Broncos a better defense?
Absolutely 100% yes. It would be interesting to see how far back you’d have to go to find a Broncos defense that was as good as this one. The AFC Championship losing defense was good for about a season and a bit. But I can’t remember the Broncos ever having a defense that outshone the offense.

Do the Broncos have better players?
Yes. Every defensive player that has been brought in was much better than the one they replaced. The one or two (non QB) changes on offense have been for better players.

Are the Broncos in a better position to improve next year?
I feel that last years off-season would probably of conisisted getting a couple of big name DLs – Canty or Olshansky (sp?) – and probably keeping everything else the same. Ironically, I am convinced that Shanahan would’ve drafted Moreno. However, this reloading season is looking exciting and I think the Broncos put themselves in a better position to get better with the last reloading season and they’re in a great position to get better in this reloading season too.

Are the Broncos as good as we’d like them to be?
No.

All in all, I think its a yes.

He should have been fired the day he benched Plummer. I still believe we had a chance with Jake and it’s too bad egos had to get in the way of professionalism. I respect Shanahan for the accomplishments he had in his early years, but the latter were a disaster and total failure and if let go would have been on the level of Enron.

I completely agree with many of the posters. Shanhan was/is a great coach, and it seemed to me he simply lost the ear of this team…he no longer had the ability to motivate as he once did…I also think his desire to return to the top (sans Elway) motivated him into a near desperation mode (sorta like Kobe without Shaq, if you will)….he took on players with lots of baggage, he treated special teams and defense with either apathy of disdain, and though his offensive game plans place him at the top of the curve, he did not always have the manpower to execute the game plan he had devised. Having said that, he belongs in the Pantheon of great coaches, and though I thought it was time to go, I wish him no ill….sometimes a change is what is needed and this was one of thoses cases….

As for the general question of are we better off….I would say we are….but only in terms of positioning for the future…I think this year’s squad underacheived a little bit….6-0 start is great and all, but a good team does not follow that start with a a 2-7 slide….really, I think we are pretty much unchanged in this moment…we appear remarkably similar, in terms of results, as we did last year…

But the future holds promise…the coaching staff seems to have rediscovedered and reinvigorated the defense, and though our special teams are not yet special, I noted improvement….the offense seems to have taken a step back, if only because last years problems…red zone failures….seeem to have recurred, and between the 20’s we lack the firepower exhibited last season. That said, the coaching staff seem intelligent motivated and energetic and I think they will learn alot from this season, so all signs point to “improved”.

I will say that I believe (and based on reading other posts on MHR, I may be in a very small minority), that there is pressure on McD to win sooner rather than later. Based on the hot statrts both last year and this year, it is obvious this team can win games….we are not a bottom feader looking to rebuild. Instead, this is a team that is close….and McD has brought in to get us over the hump….there is pressure on him to have next year be a better year, and if not, his seat will start to get warm….Bowlen fired a HOF coach and brought him in….so there is pressure, NO DOUBT.

McD has draft picks, and he has some good young talent, but he has an awful lot of holes to fill, to say nothing of the pressure to create in Orton the QB that many think he will be…it is a really full plate, and the day the season ends, hopefully in a few weeks, he had better put on a strong pot of coffee…all of the MHR readers and posters (and all other Denver fans) have given him a warm embrace, and are all pulling for him, but that enthusiasm is not endless, and he will have to produce in order to sustain it…his worst enemy in a way, is the great start he got off to…imagine if the team instead was closing on a 6-0 run after a slow start…what a different tone these posts would have!

Shanahan’s message had grown stale and the team was fading from mediocre to bad. His personnel decisions were hamstringing the team and strangling its ability to get better. Shanahan had lost the ability to judge good guys from bad apples- see Fatsis’ book, in particular sections on Ian Gold and Todd Sauerbrun. Shanhan would’ve retained Slowik, after releasing how many DCs in prior years, AFTER Slowik had “constructed” one of the worst defenses in the history of the League.

It was time for Shanahan to go. While the record this year won’t reflect it, the progress that the team has made from last year to this year has been very good. I see no reason why this team doesn’t get better next year, and significantly better in 2 and 3 years.

Is that really much of a concern in the Free Agency era, with about a third of the roster turning over from year to year? I agree wholeheartedly that his GM moves were crippling the team, and I think he was going down the wrong path in re-building the team around Cutler.

That said, everything I’ve read said that Shanny spent this time off picking the brains of other football “geniuses.” When he comes back, I think he will be reinvigorated, and we all know how he usually fares when he has something to prove.

However, I am still excited by McDaniels. I see big things out of him. As for my answer to the poll question, I am going to ride the fence and say it’s too early to tell. Everyone always says you have to give rookies a year or two before judging them. I will give McD the same grace period, even though this was the first year in a long time the team felt like it had a ‘buzz’ to it. I love McD’s emphasis on character and guys who love the game, but I think it’s unfair to decide if the team is better or worse off. I’d prefer to give him some time to get his personnel and his system a little more entrenched.

And I apologize for the rambling stream of consciousness this morning….

I like where they are going.

the Steelers and Jets are anything but locks as a part of me thinks the Bengals want to win this game. It just seems so unlike Marvin Lewis to give undue confidence to a team Cincy would face in the playoffs the next week. In order to ensure this, let’s hope the Texans kill the Patriots. Oh and shut up LaMar Woodley, yes, the NFL doesn’t want the Steelers to be in the postseason again but it has nothing to do with everybody being afraid of you. Steelers fans are generally tools. Anyway, GO BRONCOS!!!

Last year statistically our team was more like a 6-10 team, we already have 8 solid wins this year and should be adding the ninth sunday, we are more balanced and have better potential for growth compared to last year. Plus 5 pro bowlers and an alternate on this team with four on defense, as opposed to just two offensive guys last year.

I believe he needed a year off to alter his direction and shift gears a little. I really believe he will resume his place as a premier coach in the NFL.

Meanwhile, however, yes, the Broncos were better off to make the switch they did . . .

Look as much as we revered Shanny the reality is this team was a dysfunctional mess when he left. There were serious questions about toughness, team unity, motivation, and talent level. But in the bright blinding eye of back to back Super Bowl titles we decided to live as though Shanny was invincible and could do no wrong. But now we are seeing the ugly side of what he left behind. Players like Scheffler and Marshall were brought up as bonus babies under Shanny and still feel they have that entitlement. But under a new, stricter more team first regime they can’t handle it. So now we are where these two and perhaps others need to go to make this team a better group pf players all fighting for the same goal. The war metaphors can get old but it is alot like war in that they all have to be pulling for each other in the same direction. Guys like Scheffler and Marshall bind that up with attitude no matter how talented they are. Give me guys like Kyle Orton, Jabar Gaffney, DJ Williams and Elvis Dumervil over these other knuckleheads any day. Now how does this all relate to Josh McD? First off he is a new young coach looking to establish his way. You don’t do that in one year especially one as much a dysfunctional mess as was left behind for him to fix. Second off it seems to be the same guys over and over that keep getting into these situations which speaks volumes more about them than Josh McD. As a fan I am happy to see a coach not give in to the entitlement some players feel they deserve and I will back Josh until the cows come home. Finally there were few people, fans or critics or media, who thought this team could do anything they have done this year. Most had them in the bottom half of the league. But 8 or nine wins and an exciting and at times frustrating first season under Josh McD I will take it because to me the future looks bright. As he gets more of the loyal players he needs and his schemes get another year to grow under his tutelage and I believe that a player like Kyle Orton can be the kind of leader they need to excel. The only way to move past the drama is to get rid of it and let see where we can go from this season.