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The Dude Abides...The Stats That Don't Lie, Week 13

"Stats washed over The Dude...darker than a black steer's tookus on a moonlight prairie night..." Sam Elliott

 

In almost every Hollywood movie there is a moment that comes, about three-fourths through the movie, in which the hero or heroin appears defeated.  This moment is called the "dark moment," and if you're paying attention, it appears in almost all stories.  The great mythologist, Joseph Campbell, wrote a book called The Hero With a Thousand Faces, in which he described the hero's journey, and briefly, the dark moment:

Beyond the threshold, then, the hero journeys through a world of unfamiliar yet strangely intimate forces, some of which severely test him...(page 246)

For modern day storytellers, this is the moment in which everything appears bleak and all is lost.  In the greatest movie ever made, The Big Lebowski (Citizen Kane, stay down), the dark moment occurs when The Dude is drugged by Jackie Treehorn (don't ask me for the rest of the plot, or you'll be here for hours).

Why all this talk about dark moments?  Week 13 of the NFL.  Aside from the normal unlucky-number reference, week 13 in the NFL was a dark moment for many teams.   Some of them still have the ability to break through this dark threshold (Ravens, Cowboys, and Patriots).  Others are headed for the abyss (Titans, Texans, and Falcons).

In what could have been the darkest moment of the Broncos' season, they decided to summon some inner-strength, face their own December demons, and emerge battle-tested on the other side.

Star-divide

Welcome to another edition of the Stats That Don't Lie, your own weekly Hero With a 1,000 Stats.    These are the stats that won't refuse the hero's call.  They are your statistical elixir.  As always they include Turnovers, Field Position, Time of Possession, and 3rd-Down Efficiency.

A little note before our we enter the fray.  I've been asked why I use these stats and why not other stats that have an even higher correlation to winning, like passing yards/drive or point differential.  Although I do spend time on these other stats, and they are extremely useful and predictive in nature, I'm not as interested in them at the individual game level as markers or plot points.  That's because I'm still interested in a good story.  And I've found the four stats that I keep track of--when told together--weave one hell of a story in a language most fans understand.  And in the rare instances in which they don't, I'm even more interested in telling that compelling narrative.  And it's during these times I can bring in other stats.  

The View From High Up

Here I usually put up a graph showing the turnover margin from each game, but let's do something a little different this time. Let's also see what the games would have looked like if we included turnovers on downs:

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The orange bars represent the recorded turnover margins.  These are the turnover margins that include fumbles and interceptions.  Notice that only the New England game did the Broncos lose the turnover margin and win the game. Previously, I "normalized" Orton's Hail Mary from that game to show an even-turnover margin.  I decided to leave it in this week since a few comments have been made that I could just as easily "normalize" other types of interceptions like tipped balls, etc.  While I think everyone would agree that a Hail Mary is in a different category altogether, there is some validity to the point.  So I let it ride.  It doesn't materially change the point, however. When the Broncos lose the turnover battle, they generally lose the game.

The blue bars represent the turnover margin to include turnovers on downs.  This changes things only slightly, but it's an important distinction, and worth a few words.   Some stats geeks have argued for decades that turnovers on downs should be included in the turnover statistics.  The thinking is that no matter the method of turning the ball over (fumble, interception, or downs), it still has the same basic result:  the drive is dead. Clearly, there is a higher value in an interception or fumble because of the inherent possibility of a score, but a turnover on downs stops your drive just the same.

Why do I bring this subject up this week?  Because it helps explain the Denver-Kansas City turnover margin.  From the box score, the turnover margin looks even.  But everyone who watched the game can tell you that, in reality, the Chiefs came out in the 2nd half, in their own territory, and on 4th down, attempted a fake punt (which was open, by the way).  There was a turnover on downs and Denver was sitting pretty inside the opponent's territory.  This would have been no different than if an fumble or interception had occurred.  

Later in the game, the Chiefs again went for it on 4th down and failed.  When you add these two additional "turnovers" to the total, Denver came out of the game plus 2.  This explains a lot (not all), and certainly helps to explain the larger margin of victory.  As Paul Harvey would say, "And now you know the rest of the story."

There are other issues in the Broncos-Chiefs game to discuss, but we'll put those aside for the moment to get into the meat of the rankings.  

Team Rankings 

Here's where the Broncos stack up against the rest of the league after week 13.  Keep in mind these are averages/game:

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You will immediately notice I added another boon this week for your amusement and education (what else is there?).   This week I included average turnover margin/game.  There was a reason for this.  I wanted you to be able to see the discrepancy between a good team and a team masquerading as a good team.  

Two examples will drive the point home.   First, notice New Orleans.  While they are ranked only 14th with respect to giveaways/game, the are ranked 2nd when it comes to turnover margin.  What does this mean?  Simply that, although they are giving the ball away regularly, they are getting the ball back in spades.  Conversely, let's look at the Dallas Cowboys.  They are ranked 8th in giveaways/game, but 17th in turnover margin/game.  So we can say the exact opposite about the Cowboys. They aren't giving the ball up (on average) as much as the rest of the teams are, but their defense isn't creating opportunities either.   America's team? Only if Americans like facades.

The Broncos continue to get by with a rather pedestrian 3rd-downconversion rate, at 35.12%/game.  The league average for all teams is through 13 weeks is 37.80%.  While this will beat the Chiefs and the Raiders (maybe), it simply will not get it done against the Colts (more on this later) or in the playoffs--unless the defense simply dominates and turnovers continue to come Denver's way.  

On the positive side, Denver is doing a better job with field position and their time of possession average increased since they played ahead the entire second half and killed the clock by running Moreno.     

Notice who have taken over the top stop in giveaways.  It's the team quarterbacked by Philip Rivers.  Want to start a 7-game winning streak?  Don't turn the ball over.  Want to win some close game that you shouldn't?  Don't turn the ball over.  Want the mainstream media to anoint you a contender (go ahead and crown their @#%!)  for the 100th time?  Don't turn the ball over.  After week 5, San-Diego was ranked 22nd in giveaways, averaging 1.67/game.  Now they are ranked 1st with .91/game.  They aren't measurably better all of the sudden (no one in the NFL is).  They aren't David Blane or Criss Angel, or even Siegfried and Roy (well, perhaps they are that).  It's just that they have stopped turning the ball over.

Also, please stop thinking that the Jacksonville Jaguars are a playoff team.  Right now they are simply playing one on TV.  Their average turnover margin/game is -.33, and let me pull out another stat on you--points differential. Jacksonville's current point differential is -48.  That's right.  A team with a winning record is -48.  This trend can't continue.  Their points/points allowed ratio is .83.  Historically (over the last 25 years), this ratio suggests they are a 6-10 team.   Since they already have 7 wins, they are playing with house money.  I believe they are--in the immortal words of one of the finest poets of our generation--Kip Winger, "headed for a heartbreak."

Picking Super Bowl teams isn't really fun until Indianapolis and New Orleans lose, so let me throw out a few more controversial choices.  How about the Green Bay Packers and the New England Patriots.  Both teams rank very well in all four categories, and speaking of points differential, the Packers have a points/points allowed ratio of 1.41.  The Patriots, despite all of the crying by the main stream media, have a ratio of 1.46.  There have been many Super Bowl Champions that have ratios at or below this ratio, including the 2007 Giants, the 2006 Colts, and 2003 Patriots.   The highest ratio of points/points allowed in the last 25 years?  The 1985 Chicago Bears with a ratio of 2.3.

Speaking of the Bears, it's now time I get in my weekly obligatory Jay Cutler blast.  Once again I'd like to point out that Chicago is ranked 1st in field position. Imagine the kind of damage they could do if they had a QB who wasn't chain smoking interceptions.

Week 13 Summaries

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There are a few games worth mention in week 13, but let's exhaust our analysis of the Broncos and Chiefs first. Already, we've noted that the turnover margin wasn't reflective of the true turnover margin in the game, since KC had two additional turnovers on downs.   We can also look at the context of each turnover as well.

Denver turned the ball over on its first possession.  Statistically, they were down minus-1 in the turnover battle early in the first quarter.  Big freakin' deal.  As we know, a turnover committed early in the game can be easily overcome.  In this case, the first drive was simply 1 out of 15 drives that Denver had in the game.  They scored on 7 others.

But it was even more interesting was how quickly Denver scored.    Denver's average number of plays per scoring drive was just 6 plays.  And Denver's average yards gained/play on these scoring drives was 6.5.  Most of this was done on the ground.  They were shredding the Chiefs--in a hurry.  Combine this with Denver's points off of turnovers, 13 (including turnovers on downs), and you have the makings for a nice victory.    

This does helps all of us swallow the 3rd-down efficiency pill a little easier.  Even though Denver was only 30.77% on 3rd downs, they only had a total of five 3rd downs during their 7 scoring drives.  They were making quick work of the Chiefs' defense.  

Also of note is Denver's total domination with respect to the time of possession.  Don't let this fool you.  Much of this stat came in the 2nd half as Denver was simply killing the clock.   In the 4th quarter alone, Denver dominated the time of possession 11:32 to 3:28.  In this case, the time of was truly a reflection of Denver having the lead going into the 2nd half. 

There are two other questions remaining from week 13.  How did the Saints escape with a win in Washington? And how did Oakland beat the Steelers?  Both questions have the same answer, and let's just be honest, stats won't make you feel any better about it. 

But let's point out the obvious.   First, the Steelers and Redskins did lose the turnover battle.  In addition, the Steelers and Redskins were pitiful in the Red Zone.  The Steelers were 2 for 5 and the Redskins were 3 for 7. Neither of these stats helped either team.  However, with the game on the line, each team had the ability to win the game.  And here's where one of the truths of football rears its ugly head:

Sometimes crap just happens.

That's right.  How else do you explain what happened at the end of both of these games?   Players make plays? Well, I guess if we are being technical.  I was listening to the post game radio show on the Raiders' radio network (a mortal sin), and Gradkowski essentially said he was just throwing the ball up for grabs and knew it had a good chance of being picked off .  Then a few plays later, the refs call a personal foul penalty on a seemingly normal hit, giving the Raiders 1st and goal.   I suppose we should all be happy, for it it helped the Broncos in their quest for the playoffs, and it put the Raiders one step further away from being able to draft Ndamukong Suh.  Still one has to wonder if the Raiders would be smart enough to draft him if he was available.  Perhaps they would need to see a 40 time.  It's always good to know the Raiders are not on the hero's journey.

The Redskins didn't fair much better.  An interception-fumble-TD return by the Saints on 3rd-and-26?  Seriously? A missed 23-yard field goal?  Sometimes crap just happens, but it seems to happen to the Redskins a little bit more often, although after the game, Drew Brees credited Karma.  Oh, well, one man's Karma is another person's crap.

 

2-Turnover Rule  (Explained Here)

  • 4 teams had 0 turnovers. 4 won (100%); For the season, 60/74 (81%)

  • 10 teams had 1 turnover. 7 won (70%); For the season, 64/109 (59%)

  • 10 teams had 2 turnovers.  2 won (20%); For the season, 48/110 (44%)

  • 6 teams had 3 turnovers. 3 won (50%); For the season, 16/56 (29%)

  • 1 team had 4 turnovers.  None won (0%); For the season, 4/25 (16%)

  • 1 teams had 5+ turnovers.  None won (0%); For the season, 0/10 (0%)

Week 13 - Big Picture
  • The team that won the turnover battle won 13 of 16 games played (81%).  

  • In the previous category, remove the ties (1 game) and this changes to 75%

  • The team that won the time of possession battle won 9 of the 16 games played (56%).  

  • The team that had better third-down efficiency won 12 of the 16 games played (75%).

  • The team that had better average starting field position won 10 of the 16 games played (63%)

  • There were 3 games this week in which a team won all four categories.  In all 3, the same team won on the scoreboard (100%).  For the season, this stat is 62 out of 67 games.  In only 3 games, however, has a team won outright in all four categories (no ties in the turnover battle) and lost.

  • The winning teams this week averaged 1.25 turnovers, 31:43  in time of possession, 40.45% on 3rd downs, and their average starting field position was the 30.23-yard line.  

Top 5 in Week 13:
  • Top 5 in giveaways: New York Jets, Oakland, Philadelphia, and San Diego tied with 0.

  • Top 5 in time of possession: 1.Dallas  2.Jacksonville  3.Cincinnati  4.Denver   5.Green Bay

  • Top 5 in 3rd downs: 1.Indianapolis   2.Washington  3.Dallas  4.New York Jets 5. Tennessee  

  • Top 5 in avg. starting field position: 1.Saint Louis  2.Denver  3.Cincinnati   4.Green Bay  5.Pittsburgh

Running Totals, Season (through 13 weeks):
  • 192 games have been played this season

  • 80.73% were won by the team with less turnovers (counting ties as wins)

  • 66.67% with a better time of possession

  • 66.67% by the team who won on 3rd down

  • 70.31% by the team that won the field-position battle.

13-week League Averages:
  • 13-week running average/game, turnovers (all teams): 1.70

  • 13-week running average/game, time of possession (all teams): 30:11 (thanks to numerous OT games)

  • 13-week running average/game, 3rd down efficiency (all teams): 37.80%

  • 13-week running average, starting field position (all teams) 29.73 yard line


  • The Look Ahead

    Looking ahead to Indianapolis, here is how the two teams stack up in the four statistical categories (keeping in mind these are averages/game):

    Team                    Turnovers/Game          Time of Possession          Field Position          3rd-Down Efficiency

    Denver                  1.50                                   30:04                                     28.74                         35.12%

    Indianapolis           1.33                                   28:21                                     28.42                         49.96%

    I don't need to tell you what you already know, but Denver is going to struggle to win this game.  Indy's speedy defense is built for 3rd downs.  Peyton Manning and the Colts don't need time of possession and field position to win.  They are last in the league in number of drives, but first in the league in yards/drive.  The last thing the Colts do is waste time.  Additionally, they are deadly running the no-huddle offense, which has vexed Denver to no end this year.  

    Most impressive is the Colts on 3rd down.  There was really only one game this year in which the Colts had a bad day on 3rd downs.  It was in week 3 against Arizona, and the Colts still won 31-10.  However, the game is instructive.  The Cardinals did a pretty good job in the first half of not giving away their defense at the line of scrimmage and stacking their linebackers to hide their blitzes.  Manning had a bit of difficulty calling his audibles properly.  Later in the game, Manning started using quick counts to counteract this strategy.  Still, the tape would be useful to the Broncos so that they don't stand stationary in their standard 5-2 sets.

    If there ever was a time for heroes, it is now.  This will be an important test for the new Broncos and their new 3-4.  In past years, Denver has been destroyed by the Colts--except the year the Colts decided to rest Manning.  But just like winning in December in Kansas City, this Broncos' team could care less about what happened under Mike Shanahan.  Perhaps this version of the Broncos will continue to buck the trends and return to Denver after slaying the monstrous Colts' offense.  

    It would be a great story, indeed.  And the dark moment of Denver's 4-game losing streak would simply fade into myth. 

    Hail, Kyle Orton!!

    Last stat: 50% (percentage chance that you can beat Dallas Clark in a 40-yard dash).

    Comment 105 comments  |  13 recs  | 

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    great post as usual!

    i would add dark moment for the steelers…4 losses in a row and polamalu might not be coming back this year? yikes…

    by march20 on Dec 9, 2009 9:50 AM MST reply actions  

    I was talking to a Steelers' fan yesterday and you are right, they do feel like things are bleak.

    The Ravens’ schedule is more favorable than their schedule. However, as we have seen with Denver, streaks can hit you on both sides. I would give the Ravens the edge here. However, I am not burying them just yet. Things have a way of coming back around. Call me insane, but Miami isn’t out just yet.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions  

    Do the revised TO stats

    include missed field goals? That essentially is a turnover on downs as well.

    by Ace O'Dale on Dec 9, 2009 9:55 AM MST reply actions  

    Ace, great point. I didn't include them in my rush to get this to press. Let's see if I can remedy this next week

    I am fascinated to see what it would look like.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 10:44 AM MST up reply actions  

    I'm just sayin'
    …Only if Americans like facades.

    by Velveeta on Dec 9, 2009 9:57 AM MST reply actions  

    Wow.

    Just…wow.

    Time is a great teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all of it's students.

    by Jason Witte on Dec 9, 2009 10:29 AM MST up reply actions  

    Can we get an edited version with Tiger missing some teeth?

    Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

    The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

    by Tim Lynch on Dec 9, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions  

    <img src=“”http://tinypic.com" target="_blank">Image and video hosting by TinyPic"/>

    We confide in our strength without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it. -Thomas Jefferson 1793

    by c_style on Dec 9, 2009 3:59 PM MST up reply actions   4 recs

    Oh MY GOD!!

    I literally busted out laughing as soon as I saw this. Too funny, and the golf club in her hand is priceless!!

    Kudos!!!!

    Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.

    by Sean in Pa. on Dec 9, 2009 4:04 PM MST up reply actions  

    Awsome c_style...ROFL!!!

    -Richee
    -"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will." - Abraham Lincoln
    -Measure your performance against your best competitors and consider how you can use it to beat them the next time!

    by BroncoSense72 on Dec 9, 2009 4:17 PM MST up reply actions  

    haha, well done.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 5:36 PM MST up reply actions  

    Haaaaaaaaaaa!

    I’ve not nothing, V!

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 10:44 AM MST up reply actions  

    That dog is airbushed in

    in the original print it was a stripper.

    by T.Dot_Bronco on Dec 9, 2009 10:53 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

    rec'd me this one

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 6:31 PM MST up reply actions  

    Simply superb LB

    I love reading these…it ranks amongst ST&NO and anything by HT to me. :) You rock sir!

    "Precipitation, which side are you on?
    Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
    Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
    Got some if you need it!" -EV

    by sadaraine on Dec 9, 2009 10:03 AM MST reply actions  

    Sadarine, appreciate more than you realize.!!!

    The average fan really likes opinions more than stats. If…I…can….just…bridge….gap……

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 10:45 AM MST up reply actions  

    Almost 50% on third down conversions?

    Yikes that is a scary monster of a stat.

    Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal.

    by MrFNSunshine on Dec 9, 2009 10:20 AM MST reply actions  

    yeah, man, it's scary as hell.

    folks have mentioned the crappy running game of the Colts, but it’s a red herring. Even if they are 3rd-and-7, they are still converting half the time….

    …did I mention they are gonna no-huddle the Broncos all day?

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 10:46 AM MST up reply actions  

    Lesser opponents

    have eaten us up with the no huddle. Manning is a whole different kind of animal.

    by T.Dot_Bronco on Dec 9, 2009 10:59 AM MST up reply actions  

    Dude

    Do you think we may start Woodyard at ILB so that Manning can’t keep A Davis on the field with the no huddle? We would lose a little in run stopping but I think it might be a smart move because the Colts are so much more deadly with the pass than with the run.

    Woodyard also flies to the ball and is a solid tackler so I think he can hold his own versus the run. What do you think?

    We confide in our strength without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it. -Thomas Jefferson 1793

    by c_style on Dec 9, 2009 4:05 PM MST up reply actions  

    C_Style, I'm no HT or even Ted Bartlett, but my feeble mind would say:

    1) Stay in Nickel when in doubt, even use dime, since you have Barrett, Smith, and Law. This would dictate Woody for sure. I’ve seen a few times in tape this year when Denver goes 5-2 and they are caught off guard by a passing play. Dumervil is forced to the slot to defend the receiver if they are in man coverage! I imagine Manning would love to see Doom covering like this because he isn’t sacking and he isn’t staying with the slot receiver very well. Beside, if Indy’s run D is as crappy as some MHR folks have attested, then you can still stop them with Woody at ILB.

    2) Manning will tear up zone blitzes from the LBs anyway, so I would take that page from Arizona and Houston and try to not set in my formation until the last moment or he will simply audible to a play that will beat your set.

    3) I would blitz CBs 4-5 times this game from Manning’s blind side. You can just have the extra DB slide over in man and Manning won’t have read this in the inside zone coverage, which is where he makes his living (or killing as is the case). When I say blitz the CBs, I also mean bring Dawkins off the corner as well.

    4) Move Doomervil around, almost all the time—for obvious reasons.

    5) Play Josh Barrett on Dallas Clark, man up. Use Barrett like he was used effectively against SD and KC (against Tony Gonzalez). An added benefit of playing this big nickel is that Barrett adds both the cover skills for Clark, but some extra weight for the run.

    You are exactly right. They are going to beat you with the pass, you may as well put your weapons out there that will give you a chance. Perhaps they will even activate Jarvis Moss thinking that he can get to Manning on 3rd down.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:52 PM MST up reply actions  

    I definitely agree

    Especially about playing Barrett on Clark all game. You can add Witten as another “premiere TE” that Barrett locked down along with Gates & Gonzalez.

    I just have a feeling that anytime Manning sees A Davis in the game he will no huddle to keep him on the field. I say just play Woodyard from the get go.

    We confide in our strength without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it. -Thomas Jefferson 1793

    by c_style on Dec 9, 2009 5:02 PM MST up reply actions  

    Jarvis Moss?

    Well OK – maybe, but not at the expense of sitting Ayers this time. I think Ayers collapses better than Moss speed rushes.
    Go Broncs!

    It's "just" football

    by Donkhead on Dec 10, 2009 9:10 AM MST up reply actions  

    Let's hope for a W

    it’s been said around MHR that we match up well against the Colts. I don’t really know about that maybe on paper we have some talent in places that counteract their talent. But I’ll say one thing. If the stats don’t lie then the stats say we lose this game handily. We can win this game if we play perfectly and force the Colts out of their comfort zone, but that is a tall order. Then again we have nothing to lose in this game. We’ve already been written off in this one but everyone including most Bronco fans. A motivated underdog playing without pressure is a dangerous thing. Here’s to a W.

    by T.Dot_Bronco on Dec 9, 2009 10:58 AM MST reply actions  

    I so agree.

    I think people are leaning hard on the argument that we have an excellent pass rush and experienced secondary, which is what you need to have against PM. But let’s face it, the man is just special. As McDaniels inferred during yesterday’s Q&A, you can do everything right and still get beat against this guy. I’ll always hope, but I’m not optimistic even with the matchups that seem to … well, not favor us, but not be a glaring weakness for us.

    "All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.

    by broncosmontana on Dec 10, 2009 9:32 AM MST up reply actions  

    Dark Moments

    Why, oh why, do they appear in comedies? The Wedding Crashers didn’t need 30 minutes of the team losing its mojo. They were unredeemable pricks — that was their charm! — and I only cared about them in as much as they were funny. Once they stopped being funny, and we were supposed to get involved in their growing-up pains, it was time for the movie to end. Immediately. I think the dark moment in Talladega Nights started 40 minutes in. It took up the majority of the movie, and it’s not like that movie had funny to spare in the first place.

    The final half hour of Funny People could have been shortened to include just the bits with Eric Bana narrating Australian-rules football. And on and on it goes. Why can the movie only end after we’ve been asked to make a lame emotional investment in a character who’s only there to make us laugh?

    Off-topic and super-irrelevant, I know, but you’ve hit on something important with that phrase.

    by Chibronx on Dec 9, 2009 11:30 AM MST reply actions  

    Chibronx, I don't mind one bit. It's another topic that is interesting.

    When they teach you the formula, they have lots and lots of tricks that bore educated folks, but teenagers just love.

    Starting with the dark moment has been a variation that you will see in films. Not to get too detailed into the scriptwriting formula, but they teach you that you need to have the script start with some “event” that will hook the audience. This could a battle scene (The Mummy), this could be robbery (Pulp Fiction), or a discovery (Signs). Guys getting their heads shaved (Full Metal Jacket). Whatever it is, it needs to hook the audience. Sometimes, you can start with the dark moment as the first scene. Then it’s a flashback until the movie works its way back to the dark moment. This hooks the audience into wanting to know what to make of that first scene and what it meant.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 5:26 PM MST up reply actions  

    Great job again Lebowski

    But I gotta say, anyone giving you crap about normalizing turnovers by dropping Hail Mary interceptions is nuts! Tipped balls and the like are an integral part of the game and either the defense made both plays (the tip and the intercept) or the offense contributed mightily (by tipping it themselves – I mean if the offense catches the tipped ball, it still counts as a reception). Hail Marys on the other hand are desperation outliers. As long as you’re treating them equally for both sides (Moss’ interception and Schefler’s interception are scratched) then I think the stats are more “accurate” vis-a-vis the pro football “real world”.
    Go Broncs!

    It's "just" football

    by Donkhead on Dec 9, 2009 11:33 AM MST reply actions  

    I second that,

    The whole point of this exercise is to show how turnovers end drives, give field position to opponents, and shift momentum. For anyone throwing a Hail Mary, the drive is already over along with the game (or half), so the importance of that play is greatly diminished. Those INTs are extraneous confounding data, and are right to be purged.

    by Velveeta on Dec 9, 2009 12:24 PM MST up reply actions  

    Donkhead, thanks, man. I was a Bears' fan I think. Apparently, they don't like my...

    obligatory Cutler slams each week. I have been treating the hail mary passes equally. I took it out this week so that I didn’t distract from the real message about the “real” turnover margin.

    Thanks for reading my stuff.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:41 PM MST up reply actions  

    TJ, you were a bears fan

    but your not sure if you were?

    I’m confused :-P

    Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.

    by Sean in Pa. on Dec 9, 2009 5:10 PM MST up reply actions  

    Ha! Sean, I type too fast for my brain, I meant to say, "I think it was a Bears' fan."

    Slap me, please. Or send me over to Silver and Black Pride.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 5:27 PM MST up reply actions  

    That's harsh, dude.

    Wouldn’t you rather just spend life in prison?

    Wait, nevermind. That’s what raiders fans do, anyways.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 5:57 PM MST up reply actions  

    You rule, Dude

    Love the stats, even if they do lie once in a while. Chaos, or luck, is part of what makes sports exciting. You mentioned other stats that had a higher correlation to winning. I assume you put together a list of some sort, and I missed it. Where can I find this info?

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
    Philip K. Dick

    by azdenfan on Dec 9, 2009 11:43 AM MST reply actions  

    AZ, yes

    I am going to do an entire correlation article of all stats at the end of the year when the games are not the focus. I think you’ll be surprised to see what correlations and what doesn’t . Doug Lee and I looked at the last 10 years, so it’s solid. In addition, going to run some multi-variable regression to dig out a few predictive equations and back test them over the season just for fun. Hopefully I can present it in an way that won’t be “geeked” up. I’m pretty sure I can.

    If you are looking for correlations over a 3-year period, Burk over at advanced NFL stats has done a pretty good job. He looked at 2002-2006.

    The I’m doing at the end of the year will at least describe 1999-2008. But believe me, Burk’s list is a good measure. As you can see, point differential is the big one. If you haven’t checked out my previous article with Doug Lee on points differential and correlation, you can find it here:

    http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/11/14/1156626/why-history-wont-have-a-way-of

    Thanks for reading, man, I really appreciate it. I may not be the best stats guy out there, or the best opinion guy out there, but I hope I can blend the two in a way that makes you laugh and consider the stats just a bit.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:39 PM MST up reply actions  

    AZ, let me give you than link to the 2002-2006 correlations...geeze, I forgot to paste it!

    http://home.comcast.net/~bbnflstats/correlationlist.htm

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 5:34 PM MST up reply actions  

    TY TJ

    I look forward to your offseason article. Keep up the great work!

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
    Philip K. Dick

    by azdenfan on Dec 9, 2009 6:10 PM MST up reply actions  

    Great job again TJ and the Broncos will have their hands full with Manning.

    We can’t get into a back and forth battle with Peyton, he’ll beat you most every time. What the Broncos have to do is control the line of scrimmage. There has to be a man on Clark the whole game, if he stays in to block, stay with him. If he blocks and rolls out over the middle, stay with him. The player assigned to him has to make a statement hit early and often, while the defense pressures Manning. Champ will have his hands full with Reggie Wayne all day and if the New England game was any indication then I think he can handle the task. Moss was ineffective all day. Champ seem to take Wade lightly in the KC game and could have been burnt severely on a couple of occasions. I look for Champ to be on his A game this week.

    Goodman on Garcon will also be a tall task, he had a big game last week against Tennessee receiving 136 yards. Different target for Manning. Joseph Addai is not much of a threat in the running game, only on short yardage. They may try to use him like the Ravens did with Ray Rice.

    Manning doesn’t roll out of the pocket very often but does a great job of sliding up or to one side and has a great presence of his receivers and their abilities. Peyton’s OLine is above average in they give Manning the protection he needs to find the open guy. He will be hard to sack, and if will do get the penetration on him early and hard he will change the count and mix things up on you in a hurry. He is very decievable with his no huddle and will lay it on you at the most opportune time, so the defense will have to be on guard for it or we will spend precious time outs on defense. Let’s hope we have a great game with +3 or 4 in the T/O differential and limiting him to 3rd down conversions under 30%.

    by bfree2bronc on Dec 9, 2009 12:14 PM MST reply actions  

    bfree, I agree with all of those points, and also...

    I would add that they have to be prepared for the no-huddle, because they are gonna get some of that.

    I think they don’t want to stay in the base 5-2 in no huddle and instead should go big nickel most of the game with Barrett on Clark. The problem is that—outside of Doom—we use blitz for our primary source of pressuring the QB. And Manning reads the zone blitzes from the inside like a book.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing 4-5 CB blitzes (disguised of course) with the extra back or safety rolling over to take the WR.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:31 PM MST up reply actions  

    Fake injuries like SF did against them?

    We talked about that over on the BigBlue thread and they said the 49ers did the best job on Manning with bringing pressure and faking injuries. I would say every 3 or 4 downs…Hah..

    by bfree2bronc on Dec 9, 2009 4:34 PM MST up reply actions  

    Bfree, why not? I forgot to mention that. I remember at the time there was mention of SF

    or accusations that they had done it. Anything they can do to keep from getting stuck in that no-huddle, I would do it.

    If you think we had it bad post \-Elway, just wait until the Colts see what happens post-Manning, when the offensive coordinator has to actually call the plays.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 5:29 PM MST up reply actions  

    They will be a bitter hollow husk for a decade or more

    We were a gullible soft-centered and angst-ridden husk with a savior complex…big difference

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 9, 2009 9:12 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

    I'm not so sure.

    They have Curtis Painter as their backup. If he plays like I saw him play at Purdue, the Colts may be in decent shape. He has the size of Ben Roethlisburger (a bit smaller) with the pocket presence of Peyton Manning. Now, if he can have the same decision making as manning, then the Colts might be alright. I don’t think they are going to completely fall apart, though.

    He isn’t going to be a quarterback legend, like Peyton, but he can operate the offense and run the spread offense, pretty well, IMO.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 10:59 PM MST up reply actions  

    KB, Peyton has how many years left though? I would say a good 5-6 at least, wouldn't you?

    That’s a lot time for a QB to wait.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 11:23 PM MST up reply actions  

    I know. I'm just saying.

    We can’t guarantee that they are going to fall off the map, though. Sure, it’s probably not going to be where the offense can be as dynamic as it is now, but by then, this may be a stout defensive team. Lots of things can change in 5 or 6 years. So, I don’t know. We’ll see.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 11:35 PM MST up reply actions  

    ohhh please noooo

    as fans we accept defeat in fair play, but faking injuries is consider cheating by both fans and rule book but it is impossible to probe so no penalties, we have even suggested a couple of changes that could help avoid the use of such clearly prohibited by the rule book, the one that i like the most is that if a player is injured on a play the player involved should stay on the sideline after a change of possession making the veracity of the injury irrelevant.

    by thebossuzzi on Dec 9, 2009 10:13 PM MST up reply actions  

    *stay in the sidelines up until a change of possession

    not letting them just join the game 1 or 2 downs after , if he was hurt and stopped the tempo and time without a TO then he should stay out of the field until the next possession

    by thebossuzzi on Dec 9, 2009 10:16 PM MST up reply actions  

    A Question

    TJ — apologies if this has already been addressed, but have you considered other types of normalizations for the turnovers? The logic behind throwing out end-of-half Hail Mary passes is clear. I’m just wondering what the numbers would look like if you normalized for field position and time (the importance of which you’ve documented elsewhere).

    Obvious examples: An interception will hurt the team less if it comes with 1:50 to go, as opposed to 6:00 (but only outside of the 15 yard-line — closer to the goal line, and it’s a wash). Orton’s mid-field fumble was bad, but nowhere near as harmful as the fumble on his own 2. I’m not sure how individual turnovers could be converted into aggegable units, but that approach may reveal some teams to be paper tigers on turnovers and others with negative turnover margins to be decent performers.

    Not that I mean to appoint myself your assignment editor, but since you incorporate this kind of analysis into your write-ups already, it would be interesting to hear your take on what the math might look like.

    by Chibronx on Dec 9, 2009 1:12 PM MST reply actions  

    chibronx

    fair points, all of them….I know that the Football Outsiders don’t count drives, for instance, if the QB simply takes a knee before half. So they do make some subjective decisions about what equals a drive. One could do the same with turnovers.

    From an expected points value, the turnover itself, no mater where it happens on the field is a swing of -4. That’s because as an offense, I have an expected points value going towards the goal line and when I turn the ball over, I’ve immediately lost these expected points and now their offense has some other expected point value. It works out to between 3.5 and 4, depending on the regression model.

    Regarding the concept of time, I’m extremely interested in this. I think Burk over at advanced NFL stats has done something on this. Let me go check into this a bit and I will be back….soon

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:27 PM MST up reply actions  

    That was my thought, too

    It would be labor-intensive to operationalize, but you could use the Advanced NFL Stats win probability calculator to measure the impact of yard line/distance on turnovers. The way to experiment with this might be to take a game in which a team won despite a big negative turnover differential, then determine if the turnovers were somehow less harmful. I’m game if you are.

    by Chibronx on Dec 9, 2009 5:07 PM MST up reply actions  

    chibronx, I am certainly game....each week I try to cram this Wed piece between Monday night and Wed morning, but.

    between Wed and Saturday, it gives me time to look for another angle. Let’s start by finding a few games like the one you describe.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 5:33 PM MST up reply actions  

    Thanks TJ...Always appreciated!

    I belive that McDaniels and the Broncos started playing (their) playoff football on Thanksgiving night…We are 2-0 and completely control our own destiny…They have learned and gotten better from some tough lessons and there is no reason to believe that the process will not continue this Sunday in Indy.

    -Richee
    -"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will." - Abraham Lincoln
    -Measure your performance against your best competitors and consider how you can use it to beat them the next time!

    by BroncoSense72 on Dec 9, 2009 1:12 PM MST reply actions  

    BS

    I needed to hear that. That’s why they line them up. As Sayre said in another post, the longer their win streak continues, the more likely they are gonna get knocked off.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:15 PM MST up reply actions  

    Dude you rock with the continuing saga

    of “Stats that don’t lie”. Look forward to your analysis each week…….

    "A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
    "Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

    by bchiper on Dec 9, 2009 1:16 PM MST reply actions  

    Reeespect to the bchiper, siempre!

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:14 PM MST up reply actions  

    You got that whole cowboy thing going on.

    Thanks, man.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:14 PM MST up reply actions  

    As always great post

    For fun I did some research on Indy today. The best defenses rank by tardage that Indy played is Baltimor (10), New England (11) and Houston (16) twice. Denver is ranked 3rd 47 yards a game less than Baltimore. In those four games Indy committed 9 of its 13 turnovers but they also caused 10 in those games. They had a 46% 3rd down ratio during those games. They won those games by 1, 2, 3, and 8 points. The point is Indy has a problem with turning the ball over with decent defenses and they haven’t seen a defense as good as Denver all year. Denver can win this turnover battle.

    ... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

    by 3nS on Dec 9, 2009 1:46 PM MST reply actions  

    Wow, I can't believe you out-statted the Dude.

    It’s a stat war. 3nS, I like your style.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 2:17 PM MST up reply actions  

    Credit the Dude

    I only looked at turnovers and 3rd downs because the dude has made a believer out of me. I would have looked up starting field position too, but that was too much work.

    ... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

    by 3nS on Dec 9, 2009 2:43 PM MST up reply actions  

    I'm not discrediting the Dude.

    The Dude abides. The Dude’s stats are solid, but the colts stats that don’t lie have gotten fat off of mediocre defenses.

    I think that it doesn’t matter, in the long term, because over the course of a 16 game season, for the most part, teams will play a variety of teams and will be tested by an array of quality opponents.

    So, the dude’s stats don’t have to be discredited. The stats that he uses are still valid, but the colts happen to be an outlier when it comes to facing defenses. They play really well against bad defenses, that pad their 3rd down and turnover stats. When they play better defenses, they tank in those statistics. So yeah. Kudos to both 3nS and the Dude. Both sets of stats are valid and both are useful.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 5:53 PM MST up reply actions  

    3nS, I can get you the field position stat, but it's not too important...

    because Indy is first in the league in yards/drive. I’ve studied all the drive charts from the Indy game, and they are average in field position almost every game.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 6:20 PM MST up reply actions  

    It's not hard, KB!

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 5:30 PM MST up reply actions  

    See above. The stats that don't lie are still completely legit.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 5:54 PM MST up reply actions  

    3nS, these are great counterpoints to why we could win the game. I like it. I just wish the Colts had lost one of those games!

    My biggest concern again is the no-huddle and the 3rd down percentage. As you noted, 46% is lower than their normal 49%, but it’s still pretty darn good. And so they won those game, too. Ad

    Indy has studied the tape and if they don’t go no huddle, color me suprised….and insane.

    Believe me, however, I want to believe. Again, good job.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 6:17 PM MST up reply actions  

    The turnovers make me smile, though.

    9 turnovers in 4 games. So, on sunday, we might have 2 to 3 turnovers.

    From your experience/stats, what would that do to our chances of victory? You had that chart that gave win percentage by the number of turnovers in a game. What kind of manipulation to that chart would be made if the opponent coupled it with a 46% third down conversion?

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 6:32 PM MST up reply actions  

    KB, I would have to go pull individual games from the last two seasons to give you that number, but...

    I could get it. Tell you what. Even though this post will be several days old by Friday, I will get some of that data and see what I can generalize. I can tell you that generally, I’ve noticed that TOs and Field Position tend to follow each other and 3rd downs and TOP tend to follow each other. This does make sense intuitively.

    The Colts are one of those teams in which it will matter when and where the turnover is committed. A turnover for Peyton Manning in the 1st quarter or even the 2nd is not a big deal to him. Again, they can strike so quickly.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 11:21 PM MST up reply actions  

    That's okay, you don't have to trouble yourself over that, TJ.

    I was just looking for a round-about estimate, anyways. You could have just said 64% chance of winning and I would have believed you.

    From the sounds of things, you aren’t thinking about an estimate, here. You sure do take your stats seriously.

    In that case, I think I recall 79% being the percent chance of losing if you have 3 turnovers. That’s off the top of my head, trying to remember that chart you had a few weeks ago. Anyways, logic would tell you that a 3rd down percentage near 50 would lower the percent chance that a team would lose that particular game. I have no idea how much that would be, in this particular instance. Is there a chart/data out there with 3rd down percentage as one axis and win percentage on the other, similar to the one you showed with the turnovers/win%? That would give you two different win percentages values and you could average them out to get a total win percentage. There are more involved equations to use, but at this point in my sophomore year of engineering school, I have found that averages are my friend.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 11:56 PM MST up reply actions  

    KB, you are way ahead of me. Engineers can kick my butt in stats.

    Mine come through finance and involve more regression than anything else.

    Don’t worry, mate, I will get this data. It’s just a matter of time.

    I think it would be awesome actually to do what you just described. I have about 25 projects I want to write on during the offseason after the games are not the focus. Emmett and I have been talking about doing some very detailed and larger articles together. And Jeremy is probably the baddest guy running when it comes to the draft. And there is going to be some fascinated stat-based draft stuff as well. Believe it or not, I’m going to try and argue for drafting certain players on only stats alone. We’ll see how far I will get!

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 10, 2009 12:22 AM MST up reply actions  

    Dang...........

    You guys have a lot on your plate. I’m very interested to see what you guys come up with.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 10, 2009 7:13 AM MST up reply actions  

    Engineers

    can whup almost anybody in pure math: algebra, reasonable calculus, and those awfully hairy equations that come with 3d fluid flow, states of stress inside discontinuous materials, and the like.

    Stats are a different animal: usually the math is not that hard, but the almost preturnatural insight into HOW TO ASK THE QUESTION is rare indeed. That’s why consistency (e.g. the STDL) is everything: changing analysis in mid-stream can obfuscate and make conclusion impossible. So pick your stats and stick with ’em.

    In the meantime, we are all very grateful for your consistency, TJ, and your slow reveal of the broader picture being painted by these apparently simple stats.

    Its not hard math, but it is deep math, in the sense of applying the science…..and applied science is engineering….therefore you’re an engineer….therefore kicking your own but…never mind.

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 10, 2009 7:18 AM MST up reply actions  

    Question

    Do they offer engineering degrees in football stats? Dude is the professor.

    ... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

    by 3nS on Dec 10, 2009 8:17 AM MST up reply actions  

    ++++

    It is clear that the colts have had their share of bad days and games with almost all secondary ran by backups due to injuries, but we won those too, those teams with working strategies against the Colts failed in executing them for the entire 60 minutes and thats what is needed IMHO a near perfect game plan well executed for 60 minutes. You will need to score a lot, we have the 2nd scoring defense ,if your red zone scoring is not razor sharp it will allow our offense to be crappy and still pull the win. record 5 4th quarter comebacks proves no lead is safe with Peyton on the other side so if your going to be up in the first half make it by 30 if you can. Look for the Colts stats in 2nd half of those games and you see what i mean. Now if there is one team that can execute the way is needed it is the Broncos IMHO, i think i will come to that , which team execute their gameplans better.

    tip: watch for redzone performance early if you see the broncos kicking FGs, i will just wont cut it. good luck!

    by thebossuzzi on Dec 9, 2009 10:31 PM MST up reply actions  

    D's defense is pretty great. They're only a point behind us 201 to 202.

    How many garbage tds has Denver allowed? Because I know we’ve let teams score about 28 points after the game was already decided.

    by diagenesis on Dec 9, 2009 10:44 PM MST up reply actions  

    I don't disagree with you on any of these points. There is a reason the Colts are 12-0.

    I happen to believe Peyton Manning is the greatest QB to every play. I’ve seen Denver teams try to blitz him all game. I’ve seen them try to play 8 DBs. I’ve seen them mix both. There is only so much a defense can do when you essentially have what amounts to an offensive coordinator lining up under center who has 3 plays he can call in real time depending on the situation.

    I’m surprised more teams don’t let their QBs do more of what Manning does, but OCs are ego maniacs.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 11:17 PM MST up reply actions  

    Unless

    The coach is a better OC than the OC, and the coach has a demonstrated “win by any means necessary” mindset, and he is grooming a standout smart QB in a complicated offense which, once grokked, would be manageable in 3-4 play “option chunks” – I think Orton may just be a slightly short, much unappreciated Manning in the Making.

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 10, 2009 7:23 AM MST up reply actions  

    QB calling plays

    You have to have the same QB in the same system for a number of years and then have a qb with the ability to call the right play in any given situation. At this time I only Brees, Brady, and Rothlisburger as qb’s that can do that.

    ... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

    by 3nS on Dec 10, 2009 8:23 AM MST up reply actions  

    Isn't that fun!!

    That was the thing I really loved about Elway. No matter what, I always had faith till late in the fourth quarter. The game was NEVER over till the wistle blew. Enjoy it Colts fans.

    Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.

    by Sean in Pa. on Dec 10, 2009 4:22 PM MST up reply actions  

    You sir are 100% right

    I as a fan have enjoyed a few of the greatest comebacks by Peyton and the Colts and as you say we always have faith even down by 3 TDs going into a 4th quarter. In 2003 Peyton and the Colts made a comeback from 21 points with 4 minutes left in the game on the road against the Best defense that Year Bucs with Sapp.. it was so sick many Bucs fans left the stadium thinking they’ve won and when they got to their homes and watch the news they found out the impossible had happen , it was crazy ,this year close games mean nothing we always had our share of dramatic comebacks, we have #18 and he makes it look like is so damn hard to beat him the entire 60 minutes of the game many people that just wont accept the argument that Peyton is probably the best QB ever really need to take a deep look at what he does year after year , game after game , starters or rookies.

    by thebossuzzi on Dec 11, 2009 8:23 AM MST up reply actions  

    Nah, the Bucs ended that year I think 9-7. That defense wasn't quite as good that year, but still one of the best.

    They finished 3rd in their division and didn’t make the playoffs. And we had some help in that game. I mean it was amazing an amazing game that I’ve watched 50 times. I remember watching it in disgust most of the game w/ my dad and loving that comeback, but like most big comebacks, there was some luck involved. And we were always the better team that year.

    Your point remains: the game is never over until there is no time left on the clock w/ Peyton & Co.

    Also, Elway has always been one of my favorite qbs. (This week I’m realizing that I’ve a surprising amount of Broncos love.)

    by diagenesis on Dec 11, 2009 11:02 AM MST up reply actions  

    I don't think we have a problem turning the ball over really.

    Especially since the harm from the turnovers has been minimized by our defense. How many points were allowed off those nine turnovers? 15 points – 5 fgs from those nine turnovers.

    Indy has only lost 3 fumbles all year and no touchdowns have been scored by the opposing offense after the interceptions or fumbles.

    We’ve won games when losing the turnover battle as we did in Jacksonville. So winning the turnover battle is no guarantee as our defense does a good job of reducing the damage. They’ve been a really good redzone defense. While the Broncos are not a very good redzone offense, so there is a better than average possibility that we’ll continue minimizing the effects of any turnovers we might have. (We’re 3rd on redzone O, you’re 28th.)

    Broncos are definitely a good defense and should give us some trouble. But I wouldn’t classify us as having some kind of a “problem turning the ball over.”

    by diagenesis on Dec 9, 2009 10:08 PM MST up reply actions  

    Relative to perfection all around it

    Even a tiny mole becomes a “problem”

    Confucius would have said it in this situationl.

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 10, 2009 7:25 AM MST up reply actions  

    True

    even in those 4 games Indy only lost the turnover battle in 1 game by 1 turnover. Denver needs to get the TO’s without committing their own to win. I also believe Denver will have to play m better than they did against KC to win. The point I was making is Indy is not as invincable as what they may first seem.

    ... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

    by 3nS on Dec 10, 2009 8:28 AM MST up reply actions  

    Oh we're definitely not invincible.

    But I think what we do best of all the teams around is that we don’t beat ourselves. We don’t commit many penalties, we don’t make many costly mistakes, and we don’t lose our composure. Those are the things we do the best. We’ve also had some good fortune. But nobody would say talent wise, we’re the best team around. There are teams with oodles of talents that are not as disciplined. I don’t know if it’ll translate to a win this Sunday, but I hope so.

    by diagenesis on Dec 11, 2009 11:07 AM MST up reply actions  

    Funny how

    I’m always looking forward to these ‘honest stats’ posts even more when we end the week with a W!

    Thank you very much as always Dude!

    Your efforts certainly do not go unappreciated. Ever. I am already salivating at the thought of next week’s post after we get another Win (it’s hopeful salivation)!!!! ( =

    First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot : )

    by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Dec 9, 2009 2:25 PM MST reply actions  

    If we get the win, I assure you Indy will have gone < 40% on 3rd downs.

    Thanks for reading, as always, man.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:14 PM MST up reply actions  

    Dang it, T.J.

    Every time you remind us of that 3rd down conversion rate, my optimism for the up coming Sunday ebbs a little (in a relative sense, of course). I’m full of all sorts of reasons the Broncos can win this Sunday, but I don’t see it happening if they don’t bust that average. You obviously can’t go 35% and keep giving Manning too many chances to figure it all out.

    In Knowshon/Buckhalter I must trust. They should be able to run on Indy, keep those manageable down and distances, and convert the subsequent third and reasonables. If they don’t, it could be a long day.

    The selfish, they're all standing in line
    Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
    Me, I figure as each breath goes by
    I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

    by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 9, 2009 2:39 PM MST reply actions  

    PO

    I want them to win badly as well. I’m actually surprised Manning hasn’t won more than 1 SB already. It’s like having the offensive coordinator sitting out on the field in real time.

    He’s the one QB that I have no problem saying is better than Elway.

    At least the 3-4 gives him fits (occasionally). I hope we don’t play our traditional 5-2 set, and instead try to disguise the front 7 better.

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 4:13 PM MST up reply actions  

    Well...

    They seemed to have confused Eli, so maybe it’ll rub off a little. Denver seems to have a way of discouraging the audible game at times. Trying to anticipate the game plan has me on the edge of my figurative seat.

    This is a fun week to be a Broncos fan, for sure.

    The selfish, they're all standing in line
    Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
    Me, I figure as each breath goes by
    I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

    by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 9, 2009 4:35 PM MST up reply actions  

    TJ

    My mind is caught in rhyme prism,
    Infected with limerickism.
    If this was your plan,
    Its worked well young man,
    Think prose yet rhyme in a schism.

    I wish I could speaks to your stats,
    But I must find a rhyme so here’s splats,
    I think we can win,
    but here is the spin,
    There are some who call home, ‘their flats.’

    So flat at home Manning will be.
    Place bets! I share wisdom free.
    The Colts will regret,
    that they are upset,
    Now I must find a rhyme so here’s tree.

    Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
    Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
    Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.

    by Mike Clark on Dec 9, 2009 7:40 PM MST reply actions  

    Dude, look what you did.

    Mike Clark can only speak in limerick, now. lol

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 11:01 PM MST up reply actions  

    KB, just wait, Raider week is coming....and Harv is lurking.

    I imagine we are going to set a record that week for limericks…..

    Tom Cable is going to get about 5 shots from me….and Al Davis…and JaMarcus…and…..and..

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 11:12 PM MST up reply actions  

    DHB!!!!!

    Oh boy. I can’t wait.

    There are so many things to be excited for, as a broncos fan.

    I can honestly say, three months ago, that if you told me I’d be giddy for limericks, I would have laughed at you. Slandering people with meter is ridiculously fulfilling, though.

    If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
    Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

    by Troy Hufford on Dec 9, 2009 11:40 PM MST up reply actions  

    It aint slander

    if its true. And if it’s written (and untrue, and causes harm to the subject) it’s libel. I’d argue that, with artistic license being what it is and operating in some sense above the level of law, stating semi-anonymously, in public, that Al Davis is a gimcrack Palpatine is perfectly defensible. I’d LOVE to see it argued in court!

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 10, 2009 7:34 AM MST up reply actions  

    MC

    Now my man Mike Clark is a rollin’
    Orange & Blue Kool-Aid is a flowin’
         We’re set up for the win
         Peyton’s head set to spin
    The Stats Won’t Lie, so let’s go bowlin’

    "But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

    by TJ Johnson on Dec 9, 2009 11:10 PM MST up reply actions  

    Peyton

    Not a wave on a calm windless sea
    Is the way for P.Manning to Be
    But perchance the right clamp
    Say, a Doom, Dawk & Champ
    Undefeatable? Must wait and see.

    "Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
    "Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
    "He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace

    by PositivIntegral on Dec 10, 2009 7:29 AM MST reply actions  

    Peyton

    Keeping defenses on its toes
    by making it Wayne on dem hoes.
    If ever he needs a spark,
    there’s always that crafty Clark.
    Undefeated is the only thing he knows.

    (Just giving it a try. :) I hope the “dem hoes” thing isn’t offensive, it is just an ongoing joke at SB. )

    by diagenesis on Dec 10, 2009 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

    Colts

    There was a team they called the Colts.
    That seemed invincable at the time.
    Then they faced a D with bone-jarring jolts.
    Denver came away with victory sublime.

    Now Peyton Manning can throw a ball.
    But his great receivers are covered by
    Baily, Dawkins, Law, Goodman, Hill.
    Now in Dooms grasps he lets out a cry.

    ... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

    by 3nS on Dec 10, 2009 8:57 AM MST reply actions  

    Once again

    I’m struggling to catch up on my reading. The Dude is a poet.
    So…The Jags are from Hollywood(Florida)?
    A most excellent endeavor. Thanks.

    Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

    by KaptainKirk on Dec 10, 2009 9:21 PM MST reply actions  

    Comments For This Post Are Closed


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