an early Christmas MOCK - tis the season
it's early but Santa is on his way (almost) so here we go again -- MOCK TIME.
Rules -- I'll be using the Big Board from DraftTek, which includes underclassmen and is culled from the rankings of a variety of quality sites.
As in my past MOCKs, only picks that fall below our designated draft slot will be considered. I've broken that rule only when a player appeared to be available at our pick (Malcolm Jenkins, who did end up being available in the real draft) despite what DT's BB says.
Reaches are explained, and are usually for positional fit considerations. This is also the same logic a team would use, since their Big Board is not the same as those listed on draftnik sites.
Also, later picks will be higher than in reality because compensatory picks have yet to be awarded, which will happen at the annual meeting. We'll also know by mid-January which underclassmen will enter early. The point at this juncture is to merely get a look at the type of draft that would be possible. I think MOCKs are valuable tools for examining team needs and re-creating the mental exercise of team building.
Position -- I've set our position at #12 based on Chicago's current record and our own picks at #25 in each later round (our real pick order could vary as it rotates between members of a tied group). Chicago is currently in the #9 - #14 group and we are in the #23 - #27 group.
THE PICKS
#12 -- Rolando McClain - ILB ( +3 reach )
DISCUSSION: the Big Board has Colt McCoy @ #12 but I don't see us trying use our top pick at QB at this point. I didn't formally state needs in advance (which I could still do by editing) but I don't mind doing an exploratory MOCK to see how I feel about the picks, which helps me develop a strategic draft plan in a backwards sort of way.
OTHERS -- Brandon Graham @ #14 is a prospect who interests me but I can't completely warm to the idea of taking a player that early who appears to have talents that we already have on the team. Unlike the thrust of late, which emphasizes production over workout warrior metrics, I'm reluctant to take someone who doesn't appear to offer some metrics.
Also -- Trent Williams - OT @ #16 and Charles Brown - OT @ #18. I've outlined the justification for taking an OL in previous posts and that thinking has now transformed into taking a OT in the early part of the draft. Williams can play OG, but I'm not convinced he's the best value. I think we may be able to find appropriate value if can trade for more picks and make an OT selection at a later point. A suggested trade with Green Bay, which would allow them to pick an OT, makes sense since we could still address the OL adequately somewhat later in the draft.
#57(#25 in 2nd) -- Cameron Heyward @ #65 - DE34 ( + 8 reach )
DISCUSSION: He's not really going to be available that late so it's almost like cheating. He also appears headed back to OSU but you can never know for sure, unless they formally declare (hire an agents, etc.). It would be an extraordinarily easy pick if he's available, but there are a number of prospect that we'd also like that are ranked immediately above this pick, which is why so many draftniks like the idea of us trading our 1st pick for lower picks, even more than usual.
OTHERS -- Maurkice Pouncey @ #56 is tantalizingly close. Arthur Jones - DE34 @ #51 and Dan Williams NT @ #53 also are frustratingly gone. Jones is an injury red flag but that's the only reason he slips this far. More on him later. Williams could also help at DE#4 perhaps, so it's irritating to see scheme appropriate players elude us.Stephan Paea DT @ #57 is another prospect I'd love to fit in some how. Like Graham, he produces, but his metrics make me wonder whether he fits our scheme. There's so many players we could use around this point in the draft that I"ll save my comments on all the possibilities till later.
APPRAISAL -- I think you have to reflect on what you've achieved after each pick and re-evaluate accordingly. One of the objectives was to find help on the OL and it's yet to be addressed. It's not a worry, actually, but it is something to think about in the following rounds.
#89(#25 in 3rd) -- Matt Tennant - OC/OG @ #94 ( +5 reach )
DISCUSSION: It's a pleasure to address the OL finally, and this would be a perfect pick even though OT is still a concern. I've written so much about addressing the interior-OL but things have changed in the last two days. Finding a good C/G candidate is still a worthwhile goal but a big OT/OG hybrid might be even more attractive at this point. However, it's irrational to worry about what a pick isn't rather than what he is.
#121(#25 in 4th) -- Mike Neal - DT43/DE34 @ #130 ( +9 reach )
This was a very tough pick. I'm not nearly as 'up' on the talent in this draft as I need to be. There simply weren't many scheme-appropriate and positional need choices available. An alternate choice might be Justin Boren - OC/OG, who's a reach of ( + 29 ). I don't have much confidence that DT's Big Board is completely accurate at this point. I've heard that Boren is very good but I have to rely on 2nd hand opinions at this point. Neither Neal nor Boren would be poor choices, and, as before, the only real problem is in what hasn't been filled. Both the defensive secondary and OT could have been good choices, if only I had more confidence in my knowledge of the prospects available.
ALTERNATES -- Joe McNight - RB/KR had some appeal. Picking another RB after last year's draft might raise some eyebrows but we'd be a little better off if Arrington had been able to play for us this year, so I'm not shy about drafting a player with his skill set. I'd also take a OT if I had a clue of who's worth taking.
#185(#25 in 6th round) -- The Big Board isn't helping much now. I'd probably take Vladimir Ducasse - OG/OT who's at #209 for a reach of (+ 24). A CB would be an appropriate choice, too, but I'm not familiar with these prospects and I don't want choose without some knowledge of their abilities.
#217(#25 in the 7th round) -- Here's some of the alternatives: Myron Rolle at #223 (reach +6 ). Ted Larsen - OC/OG at #217 ( 0 reach). Riley Cooper - WR at #225 ( + 8 reach).
DRAFT SELECTIONS:
1) - Rolando McClain - ILB
2) - Cameron Heyward - DT/DE34
3) - Matt Tennant - OC
4) - Mike Neal - DT
6) - Vladimir Ducasse - OG
7) (?) Riley Cooper - WR
ANALYSIS: I doubt that I'd actually ignore the CB position but that's what can happen in a real draft. I'd also have difficulty ignoring Myron Rolle if he were available that late -- which is very doubtful. Picking players when you have no real room is a bad practice, but I think they would take him anyways.
I'll save further comments for replies to other's comments.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
7 recs |
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Comments
I think there seems to be too much hype behind Haden for him to not get picked until the end of first round
A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.
a fluid process
DraftTek is at the mercy of their sources, and it looks like a number of them are slow on the uptick this year. Scott Wright’s November 6th MOCK places Haden as the 16th pick. CBS, formerly Frank Cooney’s DraftScout, has him as a middling 1st. Both those sites are quite accurate, which part of why I use them. DraftTek combines the the underclassmen with the seniors, which is what will eventually happen, so I use them for that reason. Wright only ranks seniors in his rankings at this point. And CBS doesn’t combine the classes even though they suggest the round and part of round that draftees will be drafted. I couldn’t do the same type of MOCK exercise using Countdown or CBS. And no one else has a comprehensive Big Board.
One of the problems I see is that the focus is still on seniors, even though a number of the underclassmen are highly regarded. Many of the evaluations are ranking between players of the same class, and underclassmen aren’t always evaluated alongside the seniors until they’ve declared. Actual membership in the draft class remains uncertain until January 15, when the underclassmen have to declare.
no goats, no glory.
latest on Walter Football
They have Haden going to us at #10! And it’s not a bad choice actually.
no goats, no glory.
Wow
Hard to sort out the double- and triple-negatives there.
I think you mean he will go much higher than the end of the first, due to the hype? I certainly agree. Plus, this year’s CB class is fairly underwhelming, leading to short supply.
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 10, 2009 11:14 AM MST up reply actions
what are my double and triple negatives? I only see one negative?
I see too much hype for Haden. He will be picked before the last pick of the first round.
Better? =)
A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.
by Todd Jewell on Dec 10, 2009 12:42 PM MST up reply actions
Sitting and staring at it, the sentence doesn't seem so bad
But I was thrown off initially by “too much hype” (not a negative in the traditional sense, but required some mental gymnastics to incorporate with the next one), “to not get picked” (split infinitive, plus the negative), “until” (again, not a common-English negative but nevertheless equivalent to a negative in prepositional logic).
Or maybe I’m approaching it with too much of a philosopher’s brain. :) In any case, I got your point in the end.
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 10, 2009 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
As the Combines roll around and players start struting their stuff some might go lower or higher.
McClain might move up into the 3-8 range. We saw it happen with Tyson Jackson where many had him in the teens and we all know where he ended up, #3. I thought that was a Davis type reach but there are teams out there right now that have glaring needs especially on defense. I would love for McD to pick him because I think he would be a great addition to the middle. I would think that our glaring need would be OG/OC, again, I see McD building the offense around Kyle. Thanks Ski and good to see you back.
coming events
So much of this is merely the opinions of other people. The Combine and the post-season all-star bowls put these athletes together and have them compete. It’s more objective than hearing hearsay pontifications about where someone should rank. I trust some of these sources, but it’s good to remember that much of what we’re hearing is partly BS.
Re: OCs. One thing that became apparent is that a six round draft makes it a lot harder to fill all the objectives. We can fill OC under many scenarios but it’s hard to accomplish much more than some basic goals. There’s really only 4 rounds to find help in, and the last 2 rounds are for niche-role players who have some skill that makes them a legitimate prospect to make the team. Last year’s bounty of picks spoiled me.
no goats, no glory.
further comment
I digressed a little on the last comment.
I recall players such as Aaron Curry zooming up the board around this time last year. Tyson Jackson was a late 1st rounder to early 2nd for most of 2008. His stock took off despite the lack of an on-the-field event that would explain his rise. Essentially, his position as a DE34 who could stop the run turned him into a valuable property in a year when many teams were switching to 3-4 schemes. It was a fairly obvious and predictable outcome. His ability to stop the run and handle double teams impressed team employing 3-4s. Criticism of him or his selection seems to have stemmed from people who were evaluating him as a DE43. Those who didn’t understand how a DE34 differed from a DE43 couldn’t see his value. And I’m not saying he deserved to go as high as #3, just that there were reasons for his rise.
Much of the movement in ratings is the product of ‘who’ and ‘when." The opinion of draftniks are taken as authoritative in the earlier ratings, but they’re merely informed amateurs who are offering us their opinions. Another factor is the reputation that some players gain through their association with a name school. Having a large fan base helps, but many programs consider it their duty (besides being in the interest of the program) to promote that player. We see some of that early reputation decline as scouts begin to seriously evaluate the players and puncture a hole in some of the reputation. Another factor in ratings is the lateness of evaluations of underclassmen. It takes until the point when it’s known that they’re entering before the scouts put them under the microscope. Information about these underclassmen begins to circulate at a later point in time and their projected ranking often skies at that point. The last factor is the common arena of the Combine & all star bowls. Putting them side by side and measuring them, rather than relying on athletic department propaganda, really helps in evaluations. There’s always a big element of “apples and oranges” to evaluations, as well as team success versus individual success, so a common measurement framework really helps.
no goats, no glory.
Good looks Ski…
I would be happy with McClain at this spot, not elated. Someone on this site wrote a glowing review of his play in that last game, but I just didn’t see it. I didn’t see a big impact from him.
I would be very upset if we end up with Brandon Spikes, don’t like him.
I don’t know about Dunlap either, he doesn’t seem to fit what we’re doing, in my very limited opinion. I would be pumped about Mount Cody falling to us in the second round, but it doesn’t look like that is going to happen.
Mostly, I just want our pick in the first to go to either line… be it a highly rated tackle or guard who can anchor the left side of our line at LG. Or someone who can dominate on the D-Line. Or a good ILB.
That someone would be me :)
I didn’t see a “big impact” in the sense that he got a ton of tackles or a few INTs or a sack or two. My focus this year is shifting much more to playing a role/doing one’s job. McClain did that to near-perfection.
Cody is highly unlikely to fall outside the first round, as he is one of only 3-5 true NT prospects and the only one worth first-round consideration.
I wish I could understand the mentality that says: “I want to see our first pick be in this area of the field, end of discussion.” That’s way outside of my radar. I want good football players who can play a significant role on our team and give us the best chance to win when they’re on the field. I want to keep an eye on areas of need, but 1) last year’s draft showed that this is not very high on McD’s priority list, 2) you can really put yourself in a corner drafting like that, and 3) there’s so much we don’t know now about resignings, free agency, underclassmen, etc. that focusing on need becomes an exercise in futility at this point.
Finally, if one sets in one’s mind right now that one wants to see a pick at such-and-such-a-spot, it can develop a prejudice which can limit one when all the information is in and the variables are counted… and then the team goes in a different direction. What the?! Why didn’t they go with such-and-such-a-spot?! Bollocks!
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 10, 2009 11:07 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Very good Sharpe
I learned those things early this year.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
I hear what you’re saying, and it’s not new to me, so spare me the lecture. I understand the difference between drafting for need and drafting the best available player. You seem to think we implement a predominantly BPA approach in our draft and that we will do so in the future, and this is not the case. Even with the way we drafted and built the team last year, it’s a combination of both approaches, and always will be. Again, it’s obvious that drafting a player that is inferior or doesn’t fit the system solely based on need at a certain position is a bad way to do business. As a fan, I was merely stating that I would like to see an impact player or two taken with our high draft picks at either the O-line or front 7, no need to jump all over me and act like my thoughts were heinous.
I’m the 1st the REC this? Wow.
Picking in round 1 between Haden and McClain is like picking between a medium-rare filet and Maine lobster. You can’t really go wrong (unless you are allergic to shell fish – I’m not).
I appreciate the early mock (I love the draft), but there could be a massive flood of Jrs. and red shirt Sophomores that enter this draft. We really need to see which players leave school early before we get ahead of ourselves. I’d usual participate more in a draft discussions, but since this Bronco season is coming up roses, I’m going to live in the moment.
This is my favorite website.
agree on Haden and McClain
Either one would have me stoked. Instant defensive upgrade. Add an interior lineman in the second, and I’d call it a successful draft. :) Well, maybe not.
by BroncosBassist on Dec 10, 2009 9:22 AM MST up reply actions
You and I are very much on the same page with this one
For me, I’m favoring the filet ever so slightly. :)
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 10, 2009 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
This draft could be so deep that we might be talking about Brandon Spikes and Jermaine Greshom with our 2nd round pick.
This is my favorite website.
2nd round talent
It’s going to be interesting because of the CBA negotiations (or lack of). Many people have been predicting an influx of underclassmen because of the prospect of a rookie cap but it’s still up in the air.
Even in the average year, moving into the 2nd was desirable. It’s an even more pronounced effect this year. The Packer trade suggestion is a solid idea (trading our #12 so they could pick an OT), so there’s reason for hope. I’d much, much prefer trading for more picks at a slightly lower (2nd round and on) range. And our expected slot in the 1st is attractive enough to draw some interest because it’s just outside the top ten. It’s just high enough to hold great value for a team seeking to draft a quality OT but low enough to avoid breaking the bank. That’s part of why I’m watching the OTs closely. I still have doubts about taking an insurance OT early in the 1st to backup Harris, but I can see their potential value to another team. And the kicker is that we can now take an OT who falls so it’s not just a bluff. It gives us more leverage to swing a trade.
no goats, no glory.
Mount Cody
With the surplus of teams using a 3-4, I wouldn’t be shocked to see him get some run in the top half of the 1st…in which case, assuming your projection of the 12 slot is accurate (and I think it probably will be), I think we should grab him. Prototypical nose tackle types are hard to find…
by Remember Keith Kartz! on Dec 10, 2009 8:55 AM MST reply actions
re: Cody
Cody’s reputation vaulted him above where scouts probably view him. It’s not that he doesn’t have value but I think it’s best not to get caught up in the hype, especially in a year when there are so many 3-4 candidates.
There are some other NTs, too.
I make no claims for any of them, but taking a developmental project instead might be the best way of mitigating the risk associated with taking a part-time NT in the 1st. Cody has risks, which I don’t like for #1 picks. He also has limitations, as the part-time comment indicates.
no goats, no glory.
True
I got higher on Cody after the ‘Bama/Florida game, but I’m starting to come down now. I still think that he is a good fit for us (by all information I have) and would like to see him be part of a rotation at NT with Fields and Baker (Thomas to DE). It’s looking more and more, however, that some team will likely overpay for him. And I don’t want it to be us.
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 10, 2009 11:09 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
on Cody
I recall seeing his statistics for the Florida game — one tackle, and as a part-time player.
I’m not saying that he has no ability but I have to wonder about taking a part-time player in the 1st (@ #12). And I don’t see any quality MOCKs taking him that high, too. His limitation (albeit to an exceptional run stopper) seems to dictate taking him later, and that would probably be later in the 1st. A player such as McClain wins out as the draft selection because he’s capable of playing in so many positions (i.e., ILB, OLB34, etc.).
Cody is still one of the players in the mix for our first pick, but I’d like to feel more comfortable about picking him. There’s a bit of dogmatism present in that we’d pick him because of his position rather than because we like him as a player. I didn’t feel the same level of reticence about Raji. And I also think that draftniks would jump on board if he was an obviously good fit for us, but they haven’t. I don’t recall seeing a MOCK lately that has him going to us.
no goats, no glory.
Like some of the picks
I can’t speak to later rounds, because I’m not up on later round talent yet, but I’d be a bit surprised to see an OG/OC high in the first round. The nice thing about needing that spot filled is that you can still get a really really good one in the second round (maybe top 5 at the position, even late). I’m thinking BPA will have us take a guy like Haden or McClain if we don’t trade back, but I’d also be stoked if we get a stud talent at DE. From what I’m seeing, if Heyward declares, he’ll be a 1st rounder by the draft. We might take a guy like that.
IUPATI
His rise is merited but he’s probably above where he’ll go.
Guards rarely go that high so I’d take DrafTek’s projection with a grain of salt. However, he’ll probably still make the 1st round. Teams looking for more ‘road-graderish’ types will value him highly. And he’s not merely a one-dimensional run blocking type, so we’d like him, too.
As you say later in your post, the lower demand for interior-OLs is a blessing for us, since most of the top prospects will still be available in the 2nd, and later.
I like the DE34s and OC/OGs in this draft (assuming we have a fairly good crop of underclassmen declaring at OL). The 1st round still scares me though, because there aren’t either of the interior-OLs or DE34s who project for where we’ll pick. That means we HAVE to hit in the 2nd or 3rd. The suggestion that we trade our 1st for later picks is motivated — in great part — by the desire to spread our chances in a range where DE34s and OC/OGs are easier to find. We’re playing without a net if we miss, otherwise.
no goats, no glory.
Josh McDaniels and Nick Saban
These guys are old friends since Josh coached under him for one year at Mich State. I think Josh will have a complete scouting report on Cody and McClain and be able to make the proper analysis.
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Dec 10, 2009 10:04 AM MST reply actions
Absolutely
Although one should also probably keep an eye open for nepotism
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 10, 2009 11:11 AM MST up reply actions
Great mock and write-up!
You bring up a great point regarding the OT/OG hybrid early vs. a true OG or a OG/C hybrid. Either way, we’re likely to get a guy who is versatile. Any thoughts on the top 3 Gs (Iupati, Asamoah, Johnson) and their (non)ability to move outside?
Like the McClain pick a lot, love Tennant, great value for Cooper, and Heyward would be awesome if we could get him. Don’t get freaked out about having no CBs. We aren’t hurting at that spot, and honestly I only like Haden and Lindley as coverage corners, with Arenas as a return man. If we can’t get Haden in the first, Lindley in the late first (via trade), or Arenas in the third (in my mind, the proper value for them), then I say roll with who we have.
The KR/PR halfback is an interesting prospect. McKnight could work there, as could Trindon Holliday or Brandon James. I would rather have a guy like Holliday/James who can be pressed into service if need be, but is more of a return specialist than anything else.
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 10, 2009 11:33 AM MST reply actions
post decisional dissonance
The first MOCKs tell me something about how many goal can realistically be achieved. I already did a rough estimate when I composed a list of draft objectives.
They are:
1) DL (preferably DE34s, partly because of availability) number: at least one
2) LB
3) CB
This could be re-stated as addressing all 3 areas of defense. My feeling was that over half of our draft should go to defense, and we could let the draft itself determine (largely) which picks to make.
4) interior – OL, number: at least one
5) playmaker, RB or WR, KR if possible
5*) OT (I’ve tried to combine this into a OT/OG hybrid)
These goals didn’t allow for filling all these positions, so something is always left out. And that the point — 6 picks (2 of them late) doesn’t allow for much.
My level of familiarity made it hard for me to take a CB late. I’d prefer finding a CB who is also a KR, because it would fill two needs with one pick. Re-evaluations should shuffle the ranking and make that more likely in later MOCKs.
Here’s a name that I’ve been hearing a lot:
no goats, no glory.
The abstract idea of an OT/OG hybrid is appealing, from a talent and roster standpoint
But I can’t shake the sense that we would be getting the next Chris Williams (CHI) or Brandon Albert (KC) — both highly rated but eventually underwhelming players. I just haven’t seen it work out often.
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 9:29 AM MST up reply actions
my intuition
The best way I can explain this is: RT/RGs are less valued and somewhat easier to find. Teams are always on the lookout for quality LTs because pass blocking is the most valued trait in an OL. It’s an arms race (no pun) between defenses, who are always looking for pass rushers, and the offenses, who are always looking to protect their QB from the defense. OLs that show themselves as deficient at pass blocking, for various reasons, such as having short arms (e.g., Robert Gallery, Chris Williams), are moved to the right side or inside.
My impression is that stronger run blockers often end up on the right side, too, since pass blocking is less essential there and OLs who are proficient in other aspect of OL play wind up there by default.
I wasn’t suggesting that we should look for a LT prototype, who are hard to find and expensive. I was suggesting that we shoot lower and look for the RT/RG type who are easier to find. Ducasse (pick in 6th) actually fits this description although i didn’t mention it.
There are four objectives — 1) fixing one OG position, 2) finding a slightly different somatotype (bigger) to execute the pulling responsibilities in the McDaniels scheme, 3) finding some insurance behind Harris, 4) covering the OL with as few OLs as possible.
Focusing on the right side seems to make more sense since it’s easier move a RT to RG and vice versa. And I realize that I’m painting with a very broad brush here, but the idea is to cover the OL with a minimal amount of additions. Two additions – a OC/OG and a RT/RG — could do that. Here’s a graphic display.
LT – Clady, Polumbus
LG – Hochstein, Hamilton, Olsen
OC – Wiegmann
RG – Kuper
RT – (Harris), Gorin, Taylor
The situation is obviously in flux here. The only OLs we can count on for the long run are Clady and Kuper (assuming he re-signs), Harris will be a part of plans if he heals and Polumbus is useful if not necessarily starter quality (yet). Olsen is a question mark at this point. And players such as Hochstein and Wiegmann are still quite functional although not long term answers.
Adding some draft picks — hopefully higher ones because they can play sooner and provide a possible permanent answer — would look like this:
LT — Clady, Polumbus
LG — Kuper, Olsen
OC — Wiegmann, (OC/OG draftee)
RG — (UFA), Hochstein
RT — *Harris, (RT/RG draftee)
I’ve taken the liberty of moving Kuper to LG even though we may not do that immediately, or even ever. It’s possible that we could leave him in place. The point of why we would look for a RT/RG type doesn’t really change, however, and that player could be groomed under Kuper while backing up RT (under Harris or Polumbus).
To sum it up — we need some help on the OL. LT is fine right now. LG is obviously a problem but it’s covered for now. OC will become a problem (or already is) so we need to address it. RG is fine but needs some backup. RT was fine but it’s a question mark now. That leaves 3 starter positions up in the air (either short or long term). And that’s a lot. My original suggestion was to add one UFA OC/OG (perhaps a Mankins, etc.) and two draftees — (1) OC/OG, (1) RT/RG. About the only thing I would change now that Harris is out for the year is to make that RT more a RT than a RG. The original idea was to add a higher pick who could eventually play backup RT while starting at (hopefully) RG, but we should be worried about RT now. We don’t have the luxury of creating the ideal OL until we know Harris’ condition, which won’t be until after the free agent signing period and draft.
no goats, no glory.
re: Guards
My only contribution to this subject is that the Guard position appears to be a key area in the McDaniels offense. As I aways say, I’m no ‘Xs and Os’ guy, but McDaniels’ comments before the season seemed to indicate that we need someone who can pull more often. My understanding of this idea is that we need a little bigger sized OG who can still move. There’s some similarity to ZB but it’s a man block rather than a zone-block.
Kuper is still a good candidate for this system, but I think it would work best if moved him to the left side and found a big but nifty OG as the answer. And a RT/RG type could bolster depth at OT while also starting at RG.
There’s 2 aspects to my suggestion — one, to find more scheme-appropriate OGs to expedite the changeover on offense; two, to increase our toughness/size on the OL. An additional aspect is using talented, big OLs to bolster our depth at OT while building our talent at OG. It’s often easier to find talent at OT and then park it inside. Kuper was an OT, as were many other OGs. There’s actually a mathematic principle involved in this idea. It’s an attempt to optimize the talent utilization while storing adequate emergency backups. You need at least 7 quality OLs (ideally, IMO), and that means that 2 have to cover the other 5 OL positions. There’s more to the idea than I can explain at this point, but the bottom line is that injuries reveal the weakest link on your line at some, or many points in the season, so you need enough depth but you have to minimize OL roster spots as much as possible.
Re: KRs. I’m still trying to find a better answer than we currently have. CB was my preference because we’re the only team in the NFL to carry so few CBs. I’m open to the idea of finding a KR at RB or WR, too, since they’re positions that require depth so it’s easier to justify a niche pick later in the draft. The choice of Riley Cooper is an ode to this logic even though he’s not a KR (that I know of).
I should also mention that CFAs are still a resource that we shouldn’t dismiss. There’s a cognitive tendency to view the draft as the only place to find prospects. UFAs are also an important resource, although I’ve suggested we target C/G primarily, which isn’t a big splash like last year. Our numbers will never be high enough to fill everything through the draft so CFAs could make the upcoming crop. We only need to remind ourselves of how important Polumbus has become to realize their importance.
no goats, no glory.
Possible trades
I hate thinking of trading any of our players. But with the draft being filled with juniors this year because of the potential rookie cap on the horizon, I see us trading for more picks. Sadly, Peyton Hillis, Tony Scheffler, DJ Williams, I think are all possibilities. Peyton is kind of odd man out in the backfield. Tony is not being utilized as much as he could be, and DJ is solid but not having a spectacular year. A change of scenery could be good for him and I could see DJ or Scheff worthy of second round selections.
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Dec 10, 2009 1:24 PM MST reply actions
utilization & trades
It’s a tough call.
I have to admit that there is some logic to building a team that’s better suited to the McDaniels offense, and one way of accomplishing that is to trade under-utilized pieces who hold more value to other teams.
It’s still a tough call because one season doesn’t provide sufficient opportunity to demonstrate their worth in the new scheme. Still, my feeling is that the McDaniels scheme needs more personnel before it will reach efficiency. Youth isn’t necessarily the answer but there’s no alternative method of acquiring enough of the necessary personnel.
We’re going to be entering the second year of a 2-year rebuilding project, and that’s a project that includes both the offense and defense. Even though trading a talent such as Scheffler pains me, I’m willing to embrace the idea because I believe added personnel will spur this offense to a new level. And I can’t fault McDaniels for simply having a different mindset than Shanahan when it comes to offense. It would make great sense to provide him with the talent he needs. His offenses have demonstrated the wisdom of his methods in the past, so the greater crime would be to cling to talent because it worked well in Shanahan’s offense.
All (or nearly all) of McDaniels ideas are in-line with what I’ve advocated in the past — before he arrived. The reduction in individual statistics is more the result of emphasis than a loss of overall efficiency. Spreading the burden around is what I advocated before Shanahan left, but it has the effect of limiting the individual production of some players on offense, who were also favorite targets of Cutler. Given that we’re still learning to gel in the new offense, I can only expect that it’s where we will see the biggest improvement next year. I’d like to see McDaniels get the pieces he needs to realize that 2nd year improvement, even if it means parting ways with some players. It’s better to provide adequate resources to make his ‘ideas’ work (scheme, etc.) than go without and attempt to judge their merit — i.e., the fallacy of insufficiency. The only idea that can’t work is the one you don’t actually try. We see this principle demonstrated in the real world and it’s often accompanied by the lament — “it can’t be done.”
no goats, no glory.
I'm in favor of trading Scheffler
But not Hillis or DJ. I wasn’t caught up on the Hillis-hysteria like most on this site (even considered doing a FanPost to this effect once), so I’m not coming from that standpoint. I’m coming from what I consider McD’s standpoint: here’s a guy who is the definition of versatility, even if he is a bit raw and unpolished. If I think I can teach him what he needs to learn, then I’ll definitely keep him. Think of the success (but not monster stats) NE had with Kevin Faulk. That’s who Hillis is.
DJ absolutely not. His stats aren’t mind-boggling, but that’s because he’s doing his job: coverage LB, outside blitzer, edge protector. Davis gets the tackles and the sacks, but there is still plenty for DJ to do. He is a good talent who is finally comfortable in his role and losing him would seriously downgrade our LB corps several notches. IMO, it’s already in need of an upgrade, so no.
Scheffler simply isn’t in the McDaniels system. He likes blocking tight ends who can catch, not receiving tight ends who are getting better at blocking. Without a doubt, he has more value to other teams than ours. That’s why there were trade talks going into last year’s draft.
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 9:35 AM MST up reply actions
agree
Hillis doesn’t have much trade value and I’m not sure why anyone would want to trade D.J.
Scheffler has value to us but should have more to value to another team. He’s demonstrated his value (with Cutler as QB) and he’s entering FA status (either RFA or UFA depending). It’s not that I don’t like Scheffler but we have to consider whether we can improve the team — primarily the offense in this case.
My feeling is that our offense can still thrive without him. The McDaniels system relies less on great individual talent and more on spreading the ball. It also relies more on the design of the scheme. Another factor is the need for a few more draftees. Also, TEs don’t appear to catch as many balls in the McDaniels scheme so we’re not as dependent on TEs to catch a large amount of passes.
I think all of this adds up to an under-utilized Scheffler in the future. But his value — according to what his agent will want — is much higher. So, do we pay him that? An easy solution would be to convert his value into resources (draft picks, etc.) that could be used on areas where we need help.
I see these areas on offense as needing help:
1) – backup RB (either a power back or speed “change-of-pace” RB) (a KR could come at this position, which describes what Arrington would have provided)
2) – backup WR (another tall WR might help but speed would help, too)
3) – RT (higher quality backup now that Harris is a question mark)
4) – TE (or course), (this may sound strange but we’ll need to fill Scheffler’s spot, and it can be done more cheaply)
5) – OG (this depends on many other things. I still see the need to find an OG in that fits the McDaniels system)
6) – OC (again, we need a better fit, besides our eventual need. We also need to find a bigger Center who can handle the big NTs and overloads. This is a position that’s changed somatotype in recent times.)
Our needs are greater than the resources we have to fill them. Six draft picks (two are late) don’t go far. And we could still use 3 of the top 4 on defense — ideally — since we need at least one quality DE34 if we’re going to build a quality DL. A couple of added picks (say in the 2nd and 3rd) would allow us to address our core needs/wants.
no goats, no glory.
Ryan Harris
Does anyone know the prognosis for Harris? I’d like to assume that he’ll be fine with an offseason to heal and that’s probably the case, but turt toe ended Neon Deon’s career. I understand that an OT is not a CB, but getting leverage and pushing off on the big toe is critical for an OT. If there are any doubts about his full recovery we have to be looking at someone like Russell Okung or an early G/OT pick as some have advocated for on this forum.
Too early to tell really.
It is a potential career ending injury and no less so in a lineman than running back or defensive back. In fact it may be more critical for a lineman. I would say we need to hedge our bets there and assume he may not be 100% next year.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
Yes, good point
Harris had an injury that has ended careers and now he’s got that one and a fracture with torn ligaments on the same toe. This isn’t good news. He’s young and his response to back surgery indicates that he heals pretty well (and rehabs well, with is equally important) but we really should consider the possibility that he won’t be back. I hope that isn’t the case, but we can’t know at this point.
Moreno/Buckhalter in '09
addressing RT
we really should consider the possibility that he won’t be back. I hope that isn’t the case, but we can’t know at this point.
More relevant is the fact that we won’t know his health status before free agency and the draft. And there are two considerations here: do we sign a RT? (it’s an easier position to fill); do we draft one? (and, for immediate help or lower, looking more to the future?)
My guess is that both might be in order, although the numbers quickly become a problem. We can carry 10 OLs because of these circumstances but it’s not a likable number (Harris could begin the season on PIP though). And that’s also why I emphasize solutions that employ OLs who can fill more than one spot.
no goats, no glory.
Thanks Colinski
I look forward to your thoughts on the draft in future posts.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

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