The purge is on: Broncos cut six in President's Day Massacre

by Holden Caulfield on Feb 16, 2009 7:57 PM MST Comment 71 comments

John Engelberger ... gone.

Nate Jackson ... gone.

Niko Koutouvides ... gone.

Marquand Manuel ... gone.

Dewayne Robertson ... gone.

Jamie Winborn ... gone.

All were released Monday, with the news coming in a terse, two-paragraph press release. And most were endemic of the malaise that had set in at Dove Valley over the final years of the Shanahan stewardship, with their releases serving as dramatic evidence that a new order is in place and in play.

With Manuel and Koutouvides, it appears to be simple ... these were free-agency pickups that weren't up to snuff. Manuel started at safety most of last year, but that's probably not something that stands a distinguishing line on his resume, being a starter on one of the league's worst safety corps in recent memory. Koutouvides ... well, there's a reason he couldn't crack the starting lineup in Seattle for four seasons, and yet he was signed to start for the Broncos anyway. One word suffices: "Whoops."

Robertson, one hopes, is the kind of highly-drafted defensive-line retread that the new regime will refrain from acquiring. Remember Gerard Warren? Courtney Brown? Sam Adams? Luther Elliss? Anton Palepoi? (And if you remember him, kudos, because he was a second-round pick who flamed out in Seattle and is probably best known for being burned by the elusive Michael Vick in a 2004 loss at Invesco Field.)

Much the same can be said of Engelberger, although he doesn't come with the same character issues as Robertson and the afore-mentioned Warren; he's more like a Brown or Elliss. He was the team's 2007 Ed Block Award winner because he played through a shoulder injury, but his time in the lineup the last two years was largely due to the developmental failures of Tim Crowder and Jarvis Moss. Their contracts and youth probably saved them today; they might not be enough if they can't channel something special in the offseason and training camps to come.

Then there is Jackson, everyone's favorite player-writer, who probably earned more attention for his journal on the team's website than his play on the field. Jackson was acquired from San Francisco six years ago, largely on the recommendation of Bill Walsh, whose words Shanahan took as gospel as he built the Broncos in the Walsh image. Jackson showed some brilliant flashes, but could rarely remain healthy. His release is probably due as much to that as anything else, because on the rare occasions he did play, he made some significant catches, and in the stories written about and by him was an eloquent voice in a sport often devoid of such intelligence.

The exception is Winborn, a dutiful hard worker who earned a greater role on the roster as one of the few defensive and special teams bright spots in a depressing 2007. But there were rumblings of discord between Mike Nolan and Winborn dating back to their days together in San Francisco, and one can only deduce that Nolan wanted Winborn expunged, pronto. Winborn came across as a decent, dignified man, and I hope that this disagreement was not the sole reason why he was sent packing on President's Day.

Perhaps these moves mean the Broncos are about to get younger, which, frankly, can only mean better, since these players, for the most part, were dead wood. They weren't rotting the tree, but they weren't flourishing and spawning new branches and leaves, either.

<---Title edit by TSG--->

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Sorry HC

I was discussing this on a different thread and beat you out by seconds with the front page story! Great breakdown though!

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Feb 16, 2009 6:29 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I probably would have had it first if not for the analysis!

Kudos to you for getting it up before me, though … and thanks for the compliment!

by Holden Caulfield on Feb 16, 2009 6:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

no problem

I read it and liked a lot of it I think that Winborn is gone for more than the nolan reason alone

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Feb 16, 2009 6:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Good stuff Holden

Nice memory banks too…

Want to know what the really sad part is? Those little one paragraph blurbs on those guys? They pretty much sum up what these guys have accomplished so far.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 16, 2009 6:55 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

And yet some stuck around for so long.

Jackson was here six seasons. Engelberger was here for three. Typically the only way you stay that long for doing bupkus is if you are a first-round pick (see Middlebrooks, Willie).

by Holden Caulfield on Feb 16, 2009 6:57 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I think Warren didn't stick around quite long enough

Not that he was great, but he was arguably better than what we had this year and last, and would have made a better stopgap pending FA acquisitions or young players getting up to speed. Surely our highly touted run defense could have used his services.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Feb 16, 2009 8:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

actually

I think Warren was the best thing our line has had in the past four or so years. OK, probably Doom has to take that award, but here’s my point: he wasn’t always the one doing the damage, but he held the point of attack, took double teams, and anchored the line like a DT should. This year he quietly got it done for the Raiders too.

Jason
The Hanging Curve

by poorboywilly on Feb 16, 2009 10:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Losing Warren...

…was, IMO, the most unfortunate outcome of the Bates experiment.

by jaffe28 on Feb 17, 2009 9:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

But

the pick we got for Warren was used for Spencer Larsen

Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for my eyes to behold the sun.

Ecclesiastes

by bradley on Feb 17, 2009 11:15 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

which is a small upside

until he starts

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Feb 17, 2009 12:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Or is a ST and quality backup for some years

The nature of the game dictates that you will have injuries and need to rest players, whether for a play, game or a season. ST are often not considered, and it’s a big part of the game. Larsen could be worth gold in those roles, although I also would like to see him start at some point

Hillis in '09

by Emmett Smith on Feb 17, 2009 1:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Feb 17, 2009 2:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

+2

My image is the Circa 1960-’61 Broncos home uniform sock. Some what folk lore to me ... but referred to as the clown sock by my Dad.

by YellowStoneBronco on Feb 18, 2009 2:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

that is just testament

to how much value we found in the draft—wasn’t it a sixth rounder?

But I will take it, especially (as jon says below) he starts next year.

Jason
The Hanging Curve

by poorboywilly on Feb 17, 2009 1:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Torain and Powell were 5th

Larsen was pick 183 in the 6th

Hillis in '09

by Emmett Smith on Feb 17, 2009 1:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think this is the beginning of...

the purging of mediocre veterans to make way for young emerging talent. Engelburger wasn’t bad, just not particularly good either. Likewise Winborn. But you have to make room on the roster for the players you really want and the potential stars of the future.

Nice analysis!

by SlowWhiteGuy on Feb 16, 2009 7:31 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

it won't be the last......

Next up……Nate Webster!!

fader nation is a conquered nation

Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!

by mdierk on Feb 16, 2009 8:13 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Webster can't be cut...

He’s a free agent. They just won’t re-sign him. McCree is in the same boat.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Feb 16, 2009 8:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Nate Jackson will be back.

I am the eggman...they are the eggman...I am the Mermaid...Goo Goo Gajoob!!!

by PosterNutbag on Feb 16, 2009 8:28 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

payma must already be a fa

"show me a good loser and i'll show you a loser" - coach

by chikndnnr on Feb 16, 2009 9:09 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

in a Houston Texans jersey.

If Kub will take a Putzier, you know he loves the Jackson.

by NFL Junky on Feb 16, 2009 11:39 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

oops. in reply to the Nate Jackson will be back comment.

by NFL Junky on Feb 16, 2009 11:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

From Shefter - wow

When the Broncos released defensive end John Engelberger, tight end Nate Jackson, linebacker Niko Koutouvides, safety Marquand Manuel, defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson and linebacker Jamie Winborn it had massive salary-cap consequences.

All together, the Broncos freed up $22,198,000 in salary-cap savings with $1,888,000 in dead money — quite a savings on players that were not being counted on to contribute much.

Here is the breakdown:

Robertson: $16,000,000 cap savings based on $16,000,000 in ‘09 money against zero dollars in prorated acceleration.

Koutouvides ($3.06 million): $1,061,000 cap savings based on $2,395,000 in ‘09 cap money against $1,333,320 in prorated acceleration.

Winborn ($2.25 million): $2,250,000 cap savings based on $2,250,000 in ‘09 cap money against zero dollars in prorated acceleration.

Manuel ($1.33 million): $1,166,000 cap savings based on $1,133,000 in ‘09 cap money against $166,000 in prorated acceleration.

Engelberger ($2.18 million): $1,164,333 cap savings based on $2,185,000 in ‘09 cap money against $166,666 in prorated acceleration.

Jackson (less than $1 million): $557,000 cap savings based on $770,000 in ‘09 cap money against 212,500 in prorated acceleration.

Darren Bennett... check
Ben Graham... check
Sav Rocca... check
Now if only we can find an Australian who can run and tackle in the NFL and show these Yanks what we're made of.

by orange&blue_aussie on Feb 17, 2009 12:27 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Definately a distortion on Robertson....

The $16million was his cap hit this year unless the team “elected” to not prorate his bonuses. But, if they had kept him they certainly would have prorated the bonuses. It’s looking like the Broncos are feeding misinformation to the MSM who are too lazy to check their facts.

$16mill would have made Roberston the highest paid D-lineman in football, more than Peppers, by about $3mill, more than Haynesworth by $4mill.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Feb 17, 2009 6:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahh...

Hey thanks SWG…

Adam Schefter is usually pretty accurate but what you say makes sense.

Must admit i was amazed at some of those numbers. Not so much Robertson but just how much we were paying for the likes of Winborn, Kuta and Engleberger. Just huge bucks for marginal starters (if starters at all)…

cheers

Darren Bennett... check
Ben Graham... check
Sav Rocca... check
Now if only we can find an Australian who can run and tackle in the NFL and show these Yanks what we're made of.

by orange&blue_aussie on Feb 17, 2009 9:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I like schefter

But I was disappointed that he, too, got caught today in the game of ‘telephone’.

Hillis in '09

by Emmett Smith on Feb 17, 2009 12:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

parsing caponomics

I wish I could say definitively what the numbers are but caveats muddle the situation. Few people — IMO — thought Robertson was going to ultimately count 16 million against the cap next year, since we’d have forced him to spread the hit across the life of the contract or be cut, but a realistic and lesser number would have still been more than we could justify. The savings, although partly illusory, are still substantial.

Schefter is probably not trying to distort the picture, but the problem has less to do with the accuracy of the numbers than with a confusing cap system that requires a mini lecture on the cap in order for people to understand what the numbers actually mean.

SCHEFTER COLUMN

by Colinski on Feb 17, 2009 5:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

BTW

Koutouvides has the lion’s share of the dead money — $1,333,320. I’d like to see a listing here of dead money (I’ve seen partial ones). Colbert still adds to the dead money ‘grave’ and Henry is still on the pyre (I believe).

by Colinski on Feb 17, 2009 5:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

yes, he is

Hillis in '09

by Emmett Smith on Feb 17, 2009 6:47 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Biggest name missing from that list?

NATE “FREAKING” WEBSTER!

Then again, this was all about freeing up cap space of players who earn too much for their crappy play.

Is there such a thing as a Playstation 3 Anonymous? I can't seem to stop thinking about or playing COD 4 and COD 5. I hear this is quite normal for a teenager, but I haven't been a teenager since Bill Clinton was frolicking with interns.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 12:36 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Geesh

I love you guys, but NATE WEBSTER IS A FREE AGENT!!! THERE IS NO CUT TO BE MADE!!!

(the caps are for attention, not yelling)

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Feb 17, 2009 8:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

My caps were for yelling...I don't care if he is a free agent. lol

:-) I am spiteful.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 10:59 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Zappa you are great!

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Feb 17, 2009 12:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You are too kind. :)

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 1:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

do you think his helmet would fall off

if we cut him?

Jason
The Hanging Curve

by poorboywilly on Feb 17, 2009 1:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I want to tear his helmet into pieces and send each one to the four corners of Britain as a warning.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 1:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

you want to paint him blue first?

by Chuck "DeadDrunk" Breedlove on Feb 17, 2009 2:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't know he was Celtic

Hillis in '09

by Emmett Smith on Feb 17, 2009 2:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

No, I am painted blue. FFFFFRRRRREEEEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 2:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

so, your the one we need to cut up and spread across britian as a warning...

Thats another reason i’m starting to shift more towards moreno. I just think that Rey might be another Webster, flying all over the field. Agressive not smart.

by Chuck "DeadDrunk" Breedlove on Feb 17, 2009 2:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, in my storyline the blue painted face guy wins and the stuck up english king gets torn up. :)

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 2:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

we should resighn

him and then cut him out of spite.

83 days til draft...

by robbo650 on Feb 17, 2009 1:36 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

robbo650 for GM!

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 1:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It was mentioned before, but he's a FA

You can’t cut someone who’s not on your roster. :D

Of course, I was wondering that myself while I was reading the post and the responses.

A little bit of a misnomer, for you will find no solace here.

by solace on Feb 17, 2009 8:00 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

So why wasnt Webster Cut???

Just kidding…still trying to put his chin strap on.

by ktown on Feb 17, 2009 9:47 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Roster Churn

Wow – 11 guys gone in 2 purges. I like McD decisiveness.

I don’t have the stats to hand, but I was thinking that we seem to have gone through a lot of ‘roster churn’ over the last 3 seasons – which can’t be good for morale, player development, or trying to teach a defensive scheme.

The constant churn also mean the guys we hired weren’t any better than the guys we cut, so I’m hoping that McD will bring some much needed stability to the roster as we build through the draft and selective FA.

by orangecrush22 on Feb 17, 2009 10:40 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I agree with all the cuts except Winborn

But if nothing else it probably signals that we are going to a 3-4, Robertson, was a decent player as a 4-3 guy and I give the guy credit for being out there on shot knees. I am glad KK and Manual hit the bricks, little sad to see Jackson go, but in a reality, the guy was never going to amount to anything more than a very good back up, he is not a starter and you could see that athletically he was limited, he definately got by on smarts and hard work. Now the question is wether Bly and Paymah are also gone.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Feb 17, 2009 12:54 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I think cutting Winborn was a mistake...it is obvious the bad blood between him and Nolan runs deep.

Winborn made too much money anyways.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 1:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed on bad blood

I don’t know how his $$ are for someone who started most of the year and played all of it

Hillis in '09

by Emmett Smith on Feb 17, 2009 2:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Is it just bad blood

or did Nolan see things, like lack of gap control, failure to protect the back side in running plays to the other side, etc. that Slowik didn’t? Just speculating.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Feb 17, 2009 4:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Winborn had

one of the great games a LB could have, and three weeks later was gone, having been benched a weekor two after that game. Sounds like bad blood to me.

Hillis in '09

by Emmett Smith on Feb 17, 2009 4:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The Jackson thing was probably cost

He may be back. If not, he’ll catch on. Nice guy, did well for us.

Hillis in '09

by Emmett Smith on Feb 17, 2009 1:27 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I agree

I always liked “Sexy Nate Jackson” as girlfriend called him. Really good guy, made some big plays. Too bad he’s so injury prone. I’m curious about TE utilization in McD’s new scheme. Ben Watson (in NE) went from fantasy stud to fantasy kryptonite over the course of 12 months. I have to think that Denver is trying to figure out what the heck to do with Dan Graham. I think he’s a hell of a player, but if you don’t use him in the passing game much, why pay him so much.

A blocking-first-TE shouldn’t cost what he costs, right?

by super7 on Feb 17, 2009 2:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

We pay Graham so much because blocking tight ends are actually more valuable than pass catching ones.

In my book anyways. We can find pass catching tight ends all over the place….how many solid blocking tight ends are there really?

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 2:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm on the fence about

your comment of

blocking tight ends are actually more valuable than pass catching ones.

I like the threat and versatility of a guy who can block AND get open, but I also feel like: if we’re gonna run, lets cut the $h!T and just put another Tackle or guard in there.

I don’t disagree is all I’m saying, but I’m really curious to see how we use these guys in the new O. SHoot, maybe Scheff plays some WR this year!?

by super7 on Feb 17, 2009 2:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...a guy who can block and get open would be named Shannon Sharpe and worth far more than Graham. :)

We have two guys to do what Sharpe used to do for us…add their salary up and it’s still short of Sharpe’s pro-rated salary.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 3:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Seems to me

Graham showed definite improvement as a pass-catching TE last season and Scheffler as a blocker, but what do I know?

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Feb 17, 2009 4:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I concur with that statement.

What a tandem they would be if they both became Shannon Sharpe’s. :)

by Tim Lynch on Feb 17, 2009 4:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I do too..

I watched Graham at CU very closely when he was there and in NE, I mean we’re both homegrown Denver guys, so I was on his bandwagon. Last year, I thought that when they gave him opportunity to get the ball in the open field he was tough to bring down. I’m a big Graham fan, don’t get me wrong.

I want to keep him for this season at least BUT if Denver’s not going to use a traditional TE (like Graham) then we HAVE to trade or relaease him because he’s making BUNCHES of money.

by super7 on Feb 18, 2009 9:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hope you're right

Broncos now have five tight ends: Graham and Scheffler, plus Jeb Putzier, Mike Leach, and some guy named Bergen

Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for my eyes to behold the sun.

Ecclesiastes

by bradley on Feb 17, 2009 2:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

who slapped florio? please stand up

will mcallister want long term or big money? i been waiting for him for a couple years now, but those wheels are getting bald……and we have our bruiser i guess….

"show me a good loser and i'll show you a loser" - coach

by chikndnnr on Feb 17, 2009 4:35 PM MST reply actions 0 recs