A HOF Travesty in Numbers - Expanded

by studbucket on Feb 3, 2009 3:20 PM MST Comment 56 comments

Thanks to Jezru for this post in which he gave me the idea for this and got the ball rolling with the statistics.

14 different NFL teams came into existence between 1960 and 1967. Combined they have 17 Super Bowl titles and 82 Hall-of-Famers. The Denver Broncos are part of that illustrious group, but only make a real contribution to one category with their 2 Super Bowl titles. Why do they barely make a dent in the Hall-of-Fame count with two inductees?

The 14 teams to enter the NFL between 1960 and 1967 are Atlanta, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Dallas, Denver, Kansas City, Miami, Minnesota, New England, New Orleans, New York Jets, Oakland, San Diego, and Houston/Tennessee.

Out of those teams, only Dallas, Oakland, and perhaps Miami have a list of accomplishments as a franchise that can be considered better than Denver's. All three of those teams have multiple Super Bowl wins, a storied history, and a total of 33 Hall-of-Famers between them all. In fact, after Denver, the next two most storied franchises on that list, Kansas City and Minnesota, both have 9 Hall-of-Famers despite only winning 1 Super Bowl between them (and that came in a game where they played each other).

So now that we've given this some context, let's see where Denver stacks up in six important categories: Winning %, Super Bowls Titles, Conference Titles, Division TItles, Playoff Berths, and Hall-of-Famers.

Statistic	Place	Value	Average
Winning %	5th	.528	.500
SB Titles	4th	2	1.21
Conference Titles	2nd	6	3.36
Division Titles	7th	10	10.07
Playoff Berths	6th	17	16.71
Hall-of-Famers	11th	2	6.07

As can be seen in the table above, Denver is at or above the average in every single category except 1; Hall-of-Famers. The discrepancy is mind-boggling, and I'm not sure what to chalk it up to. For a while, Denver was in the AFL, then they stunk, and they were never on TV because of their lack of quality and their time zone. However, by the mid-to-late 1970s, NFL football was becoming more and more prominent on the airwaves, and Denver was a good football team. So the team has been in the national spotlight for the last 30 years, but has still only managed to get two Hall-of-Famers since then. Sure, there might be an East-Coast bias, but that argument can easily be shot down by pointing to San Francisco, Oakland, Kansas City, and Minnesota.

So I have no good reason why Denver has so few Hall-of-Famers, but I do know they deserve several more. In fact, I think they deserve about four more. That would put them right at that average of 6.07 for the aforementioned franchises, and I think we would all be happy with that.

So which four players should get in? I'll let you decide that, but here's a list of candidates for you broken down by era.

The Dark Ages (1960-1975)
Lionel Taylor, WR
Rich Jackson, DE
Austin "Goose" Gonsoulin, S
Floyd Little, RB

The Orange Crush (1976-1980)
Randy Gradishar, ILB
Tom Jackson, OLB
Billy Thompson, S
Louis Wright, CB

The Reeves Era (1981-1994)
Dennis Smith, S
Karl Mecklenberg, OLB/ILB
Simon Fletcher, OLB/DE

The Shanahan Age (1995-Present)
Steve Atwater, S
Shannon Sharpe, TE
Terrell Davis, RB

Based on their merits, all of those players have some claim to the Hall of Fame, and would merit some discussion. This isn't to say that the current Hall-of-Famers and the most recent class aren't deserving; they are. There are just plenty of Broncos that deserve consideration as well, and simply aren't getting it.

View the images below to see more detailed stats for each of those 14 teams, as well as some ratios.

via www.cover4blog.com

My Advice - A Call To Arms

So what should we do going forward? Well, as visitors to this site, we are armed with 4 things:

A large, passionate, and intelligent Broncos fanbase
The means by which to contact Hall-of-Fame voters
Some example letters, statements, and pleas
Numbers and names to back up our argument

We can take those four things and use them for our own revolution. Like TedBartlett905 said, the 'main stream media' isn't doing anything for us now; the fight is ours. Let's begin a campaign similar to our Ryan Clady campaign (which did have an effect) to get Broncos in the Hall-of-Fame.

My strategy is to choose three Broncos. One who would be selected by the veteran's committee, one who just joined the 15-year window, and one who has been in there for a while. Each month we will post a call to arms for these three candidates, and send out fresh emails, arguments, and pleas to various media members imploring them to vote those players into the Hall-of-Fame. Each of those posts will include nuggets of information on the players that can be used to persuade voters, as well as certain voters or media outlets we should focus on.

So let's start making a difference! By focusing on the accomplishments and achievements of our Broncos, we can propel them into the spotlight, the public's eye, and the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

7 recs | Comment 56 comments

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Comments

I think we got a list

The big problem will be that I think the HOF voters being the jack asses they are, will not vote for two Broncos to ever go in at the same time, in addition, it is doubtful that they will ever allow a Bronco to go in on cosecutive years, which is why I think Zimmerman had to wait so long because he had Elway and Eller go in before him (Bronco and Viking), so that makes a window for getting a guy in maybe every three years, assuming Shannon Sharpe gets in next year (which I think is doubtful) he will probably get in 2010, by that time guys like Rod Smith and Nalen will be coming into voting range, and now there is going to be voters split on which Bronco to elect in 2013 range.

I will write the letters, but until the NFL starts getting some egg on their face, I doubt things will change much if at all. The problem is most of the voters are not old enough or were coovering the NFL back in the late 60’s to mid 80’s and they only remember what may of been on some highlight show, which would of mainly been Elway. I will be happy to educate these fools, but very few are going to listen, I think there needs to be a push to remove Legwold as the Denver representative and get someone passionate about promoting the Broncos that has more clout, maybe someone like Woody Paige.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Feb 3, 2009 3:52 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

We definitely need to organize something for next year.

My list of 4, plus three veteran is:

John Elway
Gary Zimmerman
Terrell Davis
Shannon Sharpe

Randy Gradishar
Floyd Little
Lionel Taylor

I’d be content with that right there. Still not as many as some of the other teams, but somewhat respectable.

Is there such a thing as a Playstation 3 Anonymous? I can't seem to stop thinking about or playing COD 4 and COD 5. I hear this is quite normal for a teenager, but I haven't been a teenager since Bill Clinton was frolicking with interns.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 3, 2009 3:59 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Stats...

Sure its frustrating on principle that we don’t have more in, but when you step back and look at the statistical evidence? It’s incredible.

I am in for any campaign we can concoct.

by Jezru on Feb 3, 2009 5:57 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I did the stats comparison on Lionel Taylor with several other hall of shame members.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5/9/460225/mhr-s-forgotten-broncos-li

If you scroll down you will see a list of other WR from Lionel Taylor’s era and links to their stats….Taylor whoops some ass statistically and then considering he was double…sometimes triple covered on the leagues worst team and he still caught 100 passes in 12 games? Come on!

Ok I am getting worked up again….breathe……

by Tim Lynch on Feb 3, 2009 6:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, Lionel Taylor Has Been Forgotten By Everyone

And it’s just too bad. His numbers are fantastic, and it just seems like nobody even knows about it. Arrgg! I am getting worked up too.

by studbucket on Feb 3, 2009 6:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Campaign Committee

Perhaps we should get 3-4 MHR members together to create a committee who will help guide the direction of the campaign. We will do additional research, create letter templates, generate more contact info, select which Broncos to focus on, and make bi-monthly posts on MHR.

Thoughts on that?

by studbucket on Feb 3, 2009 6:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hell yeah.

We could mimic a Political Action Committee.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 3, 2009 6:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Without the $5000 contribution limit...woo!

Zappa: As an ‘ASST. HEAD COACH’ for the site, how do you suggest we create/organize this group? Should we just find a few passionate people informally (like you, me, Jezru, etc)? Or should we allow applications? We should start communicating over email?

I think that if there are about 3-4 of us, we can spread the workload and get a decent amount done.

by studbucket on Feb 3, 2009 6:44 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

This was supposed to be a reply to Zappa's PAC comment...

by studbucket on Feb 3, 2009 6:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm in!

Whatever I can do.

by Jezru on Feb 3, 2009 6:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think a FanPost later this year to work out a well thought out email template would do the trick.

I am not a web guru, so creating an Art Monk type of site would be beyond my paygrade(free). lol I am too much of an emotion driven homer to come up with any eloquent. Plenty of guys around here could contribute something. Putting an email together from the thoughts of us all would be the best way to go…I’m not the right guy to lead this one though. Hall of Shame can kiss my hairy… ;-)

by Tim Lynch on Feb 4, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be happy to help write such an e-mail...

Unfortunately, Peter King has crafted another obnoxious response to a Broncos fan claiming East-Coast Bias…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/02/03/wrapup/1.html

I also sent him a response, and I hope some of you will too…

Peter,
Once again, the evidence you use to say there is no bias against Denver Broncos and the HOF Selection Process is completely ridiculous. You cite the selections of players/owner from Buffalo (8), Minnesota (9), KC (9), Pittsburgh (18), Oakland (13), Baltimore (a franchise that has existed for 13 years) and Dallas (11). The numbers in parentheses are the number of Hall of Famers who were primarily members of those franchises. Each franchise has at least 8 enshrinees, while the Broncos still have 2 (one of whom played much of his career in Minnesota). So again, if there is no anti-Denver bias, you need to come up with some better proof. I am extremely disappointed that this is the second consecutive week that I need to call you out on this exact same thing.

by Douglas A. Lee on Feb 4, 2009 10:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I wrote him a response as well...rather good one too.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 4, 2009 11:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Alright, I can do a fanpost

I want to organize our ‘attack’ before going forward though, so we can make the most out of this. I think the things we want to do, in order are:

1) Identify 2 standard candidates and 1 veteran candidate to focus our efforts on.
2) Gather statistics, anecdotes, and stories on all 3 players
3) Lay out the ground rules for contacting voters (be respectful, good grammar, etc)
4) Begin the campaign. This would consist of bi-monthly fanposts with 1 or 2 generic email templates, some new statistical nuggets, and which Hall of Fame voters we wish to focus on for the next 2-4 weeks.

So, I think that Step 0 getting 3-4 people that would be the driving force behind all of this. Some would find little statistical nuggets and anecdotes, others would write letters, and sometimes we would research the voters so that we can more effectively market to them.

Thoughts?

by studbucket on Feb 4, 2009 10:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Randy Gradishar will get in eventually....Floyd Little definitely needs help.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 4, 2009 11:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

My initial reaction is that the Denver HOF plight doesn’t require a year-round effort at this point. Seems to me we’ve had a finalist every year, whether it be Zimm, Gradishar, TD or Shannon. I believe the effort needs to be made after the field has been narrowed.

I look at it this way – Shannon will be a finalist next year, and at that point we can write the voters. But I think trying to get 2 or 3 Broncos in at a time is pushing our luck and will cause votes to be split. Although I was sad for Shannon that he didn’t get in, I was more upset that TD would probably have to wait beyond next year to even be considered, because of Shannon’s presence on next year’s ballot. I feel like that hurts TD.

I’m a bit concerned by the possibility that we collectively become The Boy Who Cried ~~Wolf~~ Bronco

by Douglas A. Lee on Feb 4, 2009 11:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you make a good point about the possible fruitlessness of a year-round campaign, but I respectfully disagree. We very well could be wasting our time, but I think that having the HOF voters on a rotation, so they receive an email about every 2 months from Broncos fans (or about 4 total email ‘deluges’ by the time they vote). Here are some things that could be accomplished by running something year-round:

1) Always keeping the HOF vote and the Broncos in the back of sportswriter’s minds.
2) Show them the passion, knowledge, and class of Broncos fans.
3) Hammer home the point of how ludicrous the exclusion of Broncos is.

I think that when sportswriters receive just period bursts of outrage from Broncos fans, they come to expect it, and it’s more easily tossed aside. If we did it all year long, our dedication and passion on the issue may appeal to them.

Does that kind of change your mind? I really think this could help.

by studbucket on Feb 4, 2009 11:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

A steady, organized and consistant bombardment would adress the three objectives above.

by Jezru on Feb 4, 2009 12:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm more concerned that we could become the bloggers who cried wolf.

The voters have regular jobs as writers – they’re not thinking about the HOF all the time. When they write something silly a la Peter King the other day, we need to respond. But the time to e-mail and campaign (in my opinion) is when the times to vote are nearing. I wouldn’t want the message to become stale or tired.

by Douglas A. Lee on Feb 5, 2009 10:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Great point

In Goodman We Trust

by Emmett Smith on Feb 5, 2009 11:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

TD would also compete with Emmitt Smith next year.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 4, 2009 11:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Gosh Zappa, how do you think that will come out?

Yep, me too…

In Goodman We Trust

by Emmett Smith on Feb 4, 2009 1:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Go with the Cowboy...always.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 4, 2009 1:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

There's also this guy named Rice up for enshrinement...

So between Smith, Rice and Shannon, TD would have to contend with Tim Brown – and that’s just the new candidates…keep in mind, only 5 modern-day players can go in at a time. I don’t like TD’s chances for next year.

by Douglas A. Lee on Feb 4, 2009 1:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Neither do I

But in two years, we might be able to campaign hard for him. He gained every major award a RB could get except for Rookie of the Year. I think that basically makes him the Kurt Warner of RBs, and everyone has been slobbering all over Kurt Warner this offseason.

by studbucket on Feb 4, 2009 1:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

That's exactly my point

And it’s also what I was planning – next year will again be about Shannon, and the following year about TD. You certainly don’t have to tell me his accomplishments, haha. I think the most important thing though, are his playoff numbers. What he did in the playoffs ranks him with the best of the best.

by Douglas A. Lee on Feb 4, 2009 2:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Not that it'll count for anything, but...

he was runner-up RoY to Curtis! He was robbed, IMBO (in my biased opinion). ;)

TD won’t get in for many many years, I bet. =/

by tunga77 on Feb 4, 2009 2:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. He will probably get in just before he is to go to the veteran committee.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 4, 2009 3:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I have no idea IF/when he's getting in...

but if he ever does make it, I’ll win a bet with my buddy who’s a Giants fan – he’s gotta go to the Induction Ceremony with me! Hahahaha

by Douglas A. Lee on Feb 4, 2009 4:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Emmit

Won’t get in… He was only the statistical leader in his position when he retired and he only had three superbowl victories. To get into the hall you have to do more. Just ask Shannon Sharpe.

by Jezru on Feb 4, 2009 5:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Emmitt did do more...he played for the Cowboys. :)

by Tim Lynch on Feb 4, 2009 6:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Man, the highway robbery just gets endlessly more apparent.

Serenity now. Serenity now…

Win or lose, do it fairly. -- Knute Rockne

by broncosmontana on Feb 6, 2009 4:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks to nycbroncosfan as well

I didn’t mention it in my fanpost, but he also deserves some recognition for his HoF email list fanpost.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/1/30/742235/hof-voters-email-addresses

by studbucket on Feb 3, 2009 8:40 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, SB

Great post. I hope we’re able to mobilize and have some positive effect in the future.

by Douglas A. Lee on Feb 4, 2009 10:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Players

When I look at the player list from the different eras, the ones that I would definitely put in that aren’t are Floyd Little, Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater, Shannon Sharpe, and possibly Terrell Davis and Louis Wright. I think a good case can be made for TD because of two HOFers: Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell. They both had short careers as well, and they are in the Hall, and they didn’t accomplish what Davis did. As for Louis Wright, some people have said that he was the best CB ever. He was on the 70’s All-Decade team, he was a 5-time Pro-Bowler, 2-time All-Pro, and was the 77 Football Digest defensive back of the year. I think that if you had a group of players voting and not writers(which it should be), Wright would get more consideration.

by PABroncofan on Feb 4, 2009 5:32 AM MST reply actions 1 recs

If You Are Interested in Joining The HOF Committee...

Please send an email to the email listed on my profile page: http://www.sbnation.com/users/studbucket

Perhaps we can get some initial discussion done.

by studbucket on Feb 4, 2009 10:06 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

When does the veteran committee make their selections?

by Tim Lynch on Feb 4, 2009 10:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think at the same time as the list is narrowed to 25

Since the veteran’s committee is just a subset of the larger group of voters, I imagine they just narrow down their two selections around the same time as the 25 finalists are chosen. So, sometime in November or December?

The list of 100+ candidates was announced on October 28 of last year, I do have that article bookmarked….

by studbucket on Feb 4, 2009 10:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I love the idea of an official committee

Whatever help you need, just reach out to the staff. Good to see zappa deeply involved here, this is his arena for sure.

One caveat that I am sure John will agree with: please choose an MHR staff member to “direct” the committee (I vote zappa). All approved actions of the committee should go through zappa, who will go through John. This is done to keep MHR’s integrity as solid as possible.

I am sure John has some thoughts on clarifying this issue (representing the site officially through John) as well. It is something that has come up among the editors, and we are still figuring out a way to do it right…

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 4, 2009 7:01 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the backing

So far Jezru is the only person to email expressing interest, but we would love for an MHR staffer to help out, whether that’s you, zappa, or John I don’t care.

I agree that we need to be careful and I wanted this campaign to respectfully represent the Broncos organization, former players, and fan community. I’ve been thinking the last 3 days about ways to do this and how to plan the emails, so I’d love to speak with John (or any of you) about planning something like this if you want it to be an officially endorsed MHR thing. I bet Jezru has some good ideas too.

by studbucket on Feb 4, 2009 7:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

20 people are not needed in a committee for it to be effective.

The important part is to get as many people to take the minute or two needed to take action. My dad is having open heart surgery tomorrow morning, but shoot me an email and we can create a google group or something to keep in contact and flesh things out some.

by Tim Lynch on Feb 4, 2009 8:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

hope the surgery goes well, zappa

and a speedy recovery for him…

by tunga77 on Feb 4, 2009 10:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Waiting for the phone call from my brother or sister....should be finding out if it was a success in about an hour.

Thank you btw!

by Tim Lynch on Feb 5, 2009 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, a small group is best...

I was only looking for 3-4 people like I mentioned above, and I think that’s plenty to get this planned and to instigate action from the community.

My thoughts and prayers to your family and father tomorrow, I hope it goes well.

I think a Google Group, a wiki, or something along those lines is a fantastic idea, and I can set that up, no problem. I’ll shoot you an email now.

by studbucket on Feb 4, 2009 8:13 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Messed up again...

The above was supposed to be a reply to Zappa’s “20 people..” comment.

by studbucket on Feb 4, 2009 8:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Just a thought

Maybe we should get a special domain name, something really buzz worthy (and news worthy), to help us grab some sports mag headlines and muster support from sympathetic NFL fans across the country. Not something mean spirited, but something that might have a little sting. Something like “cantonstopignoringbroncos.com”…

Win or lose, do it fairly. -- Knute Rockne

by broncosmontana on Feb 6, 2009 3:18 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Just thinking of when the Dolphin fans had that startbriangriese.com page going, for example...

Win or lose, do it fairly. -- Knute Rockne

by broncosmontana on Feb 6, 2009 3:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Good Idea

We have a small committee going, and I will definitely bring this up. It wouldn’t be very hard at all to get something nice set up and going if we wanted to.

Thanks for the suggestion!

by studbucket on Feb 6, 2009 3:22 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I did it again......

This was supposed to be a reply to broncosmontana and his idea about a specialized website.

by studbucket on Feb 6, 2009 3:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

happy to help

And I hope you guys know I didn’t mean to imply it should be isolated from the “MHR brand” … just a clever marketing angle to capture some attention and put the discussion on the front burner, right?

Win or lose, do it fairly. -- Knute Rockne

by broncosmontana on Feb 6, 2009 4:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

it's a topic that merits a perpetual front burner until they fix their hall

Win or lose, do it fairly. -- Knute Rockne

by broncosmontana on Feb 6, 2009 4:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Another suggestion

is to get some consensus on who exactly we’re lobbying in the end. It’s hard to see how the writers are going to change their stripes even with mounting public pressure. Not that we shouldn’t try, we absolutely should, because they might. But a lot of those guys may also be too entrenched and invested in their positions to change.

So I’m just throwing out the question: Is our best course of action to lobby the writers who are spurning us? Would it be worth driving public sentiment toward lobbying the commish? I’m guess he would just refer us back to the larger committee. Goodell isn’t known for encouraging boat rocking. ; )

Didn’t Cleveland fans actually go to court for the right to keep the Browns name since the league wouldn’t let them? Maybe we should find a Broncomaniac lawyer who would work pro bono! LOL

I’m not sayin’… I’m just sayin’ ; )

Win or lose, do it fairly. -- Knute Rockne

by broncosmontana on Feb 6, 2009 4:34 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Totally

We understood what you meant about not removing the MHR ‘brand’ and we appreciate the suggestion.

We’ve already got an email chain 26 emails long and we’ve definitely started trying to get that stuff figured out :) We’re not sure exactly what the plan is, but keep the suggestions coming, they keep our minds open and fresh.

We’re focusing in on candidates and have 2 definite favorites we will push for now though, focusing in is a good idea.

by studbucket on Feb 6, 2009 4:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Another Lobbying Target = Ownership?

As I was driving around town last night, I started thinking: who does Goodell listen to above all? The owners. Maybe we could lobby the Jones and the Krafts and the Hunts out there about how unfair the current system is to Bowlen’s fans…

Win or lose, do it fairly. -- Knute Rockne

by broncosmontana on Feb 7, 2009 5:32 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Excellent post and rec'd

When you all get your heads together, and post a recomendation for the constituants here, to slam the media with, then, that would be fun to slam the media with so many e-mails that they have to recognize the value of the content!

It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man.

by metalman5050 on Feb 7, 2009 6:38 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Those number are insane.

I can’t believe that Buffalo (8), Minnesota (9), San Diego (7), and Tennessee (7) all started the same year the Broncos got into the NFL (1960), except for MIN (1961). They have 31 players, yes I said 31, in the HOF combined. The Broncos have only 2. WTF?

Buffalo I can see because even though they didn’t win a SB they did get to four in a row, which is quite a feat in itself. However, how can SD 7? Those Air Coreyll days couldn’t even result in a SB appearence.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 9

by weazel on Feb 7, 2009 7:21 PM MST reply actions 0 recs