Horse Tracks 3/10/09

DP - You Know Who and You Know Who haven't met yet. The suspense!!! Meanwhile, Mike Leach may soon decide on a new team. Former Browns CB Travis Daniels was expected to visit with the Broncos yesterday.
DP - Jim Armstrong likes the way Josh McDaniels has been thinking.
ESPN - The Eagles fired an employee who was upset about the departure of Brian Dawkins and had posted his thoughts on Facebook. Wow, sensitive! The Phily Inquirer had the original column. Here's Matt Mosley's take. More thoughts here.
DDN - Some columnist doesn't like Pat Bowlen.
NFL - Here's the current draft order, although compensatory choices still need to be allocated (Denver isn't expected to receive any).
NFL - Jacksonville signed former Eagles OT Tra Thomas to a 3-year deal.
ESPN - Safety James Butler has decided to follow Steve Spagnuolo from the Giants to the Rams, agreeing to a 4-year deal.
ESPN - Likewise, CB Hank Poteat has followed Eric Mangini to the Browns.
Y! - Green Bay made their first free-agent acquisition, signing former Steelers safety Anthony Smith.
Y! - The Seahawks have re-signed OT Ray Willis and added Lions TE John Owens.
Y! - The Eagles re-upped with LB Tank Daniels and claimed RB Eldra Buckley of the Chargers' practice squad.
NFL - Atlanta signed former Rams C Brett Romberg.
NFL - Detroit re-signed RB Aveion Cason and added former Jets LB Cody Spencer.
NFP - The Post gives their updated Top 100 Draft prospects.
Y! - Charles Robinson breaks down the best of the remaining free agents.
NFL - Pat Kirwan offers his thoughts on the first week of free agency, including some praise for the Broncos' moves.
NFL - Kirwan also discusses the teams inactive so far in free agency, including the Chargers and Chefs.
SI - In case you missed it, here is Peter King's Monday column.
Y! - Clifton Brown could see Matt Stafford and Mark Sanchez tumbling on April 25th.
ESPN - John Clayton fumbles through some emails, including one about the Broncos.
CBS - Clark Judge doesn't love Denver's moves, either.
Y! - Charlie Joiner received a new bust from the HOF to replace one that was destroyed in a 2007 wildfire. That means Joiner has had as many HOF busts as the Denver Broncos. Bitter? Who, me?
Y! - COPS Part 1 Meanwhile, Thomas' new teammate WR Matt Jones is back in Arkansas. In jail.
Y! - COPS Part 2 Bucs LB Geno Hayes was stabbed in the head and neck neck by his girlfriend.
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40 comments
Comments
Another great day of Horse Tracks! Thanks again NYC.
by ThorpeBroncosfan on Mar 10, 2009 6:23 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Clark Judge is a buffoon.
How can you say a teams moves are baffling when your contemporaries say they make complete sense? Say you don’t agree with the strategy, but don’t say there’s no plan when so many other writers clearly see the plan. Geez, where do they find these hacks?
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 10, 2009 7:55 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
How can you argue with the guy?
Clearly, the way to fix one of the worst defenses in NFL history is to tie up a quarter of your cap in 2-3 overpaid free agents. LOMFL. I love this kind of self-righteous columnist garbage. The Saints had a terrible D, added a cornerback, and he loves the moves. The Giants and Jets overpaid (by his own admission!) and he loves the moves. Just make it stop.
In all seriousness, I love the Broncs’ strategy, and it’s nice to see that Jim Armstrong for once follows along. This is the right approach. Short-term commitments to aging guys who will provide an upgrade over the short-term and a bridge to the new talent that has to be acquired via the draft.
And is Jimbo really the only columnist who understands that the proposed Cassel trade involved draft picks IN ADDITION to Cassel? I think his ability to read full sentences might serve him well as a journalist.
by Chibronx on Mar 10, 2009 8:08 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I can’t believe that no one else seems to get the proposed Cutler trade. Even though it didn’t go though, it did make enough sense that the Broncos had to consider it.
I think you could pick any 10 members of MHR at random and they would do a better job than the professional hacks.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 10, 2009 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My biggeest annoyance about the Cutler trade
Is that nobody knows the reality. All there is is speculation. I have heard MSM reports state emphatically that the Cutler for Cassell part was gonna be straight up and I have heard that there would have been other draft picks involved. But nobody will name a source for their claims. And as time goes by it just gets worse as the lack of sourcing disappears from reports and rumors become some sort of conventional wisdom that gets treated as fact.
by MattR on Mar 10, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta agree MattR.
Though we, as readers, could clean up our acts a little. We need to refrain from going ballistic over stories with “unnamed sources”.
We could also probably do everybody a favor by not passing on these rumors, and that’s what they are at best. Let them die the natural they deserve.
On the other hand, it is kinda fun to gossip and get all excited, isn’t it? lol.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Mar 10, 2009 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, Thanks NYC.
I have come to rely on Horse tracks to keep me current on all Bronco news. Good Job!
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Mar 10, 2009 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They should have made him make another 750 catches for 12,000
Y! – Charlie Joiner received a new bust from the HOF to replace one that was destroyed in a 2007 wildfire. That means Joiner has had as many HOF busts as the Denver Broncos. Bitter? Who, me?
You think that makes you bitter, compare Joiner’s stats to those of Rod Smith and tell me again why the media doesn’t believe Rod Smith is HOF worthy?
"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki
by broncosmontana on Mar 10, 2009 9:07 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, Smith I can understand...
Smith was a terrific player, a leader and a champion. However, his story is what it is largely because of his undrafted status. Getting into the HOF isn’t based upon where you’re picked (or not picked, in Rod’s case) – it’s about what you do. Look at Rod’s statistical peers, such as Gary Clark, Keenan McCardell and Jimmy Smith. They’re all excellent players, but I don’t think they’re Hall-worthy.
As for Joiner, I never saw him play so I can’t really speak to or against his induction. By looking at stats, I’d say he doesn’t belong either.
by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 10, 2009 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize this is sacrilege...
But I think Terrell Davis is much more HOF-worthy than Rod Smith. I don’t think it’s even close. Of the players I’ve seen (since 1986) play for the Broncos, I think Mecklenburg, Atwater, TD, Sharpe, Nalen and Champ deserve enshrinement. I think Smith falls a notch below them, along with Dennis Smith.
by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 10, 2009 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely
"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki
by broncosmontana on Mar 10, 2009 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, do you think I agree?
Honestly though, my nick is more out of affection for TD than a firm belief that he should be in the HOF (he was my fav player back in the day – with Elway of course). I think he should get in if not soley based on the Gale Sayers comparison, but I certainly understand why he is not a lock…damn you Brian Griese for throwing that fated interception.
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
by TD4HOF on Mar 10, 2009 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1000
for your thoughts on Sayers and Griese.
"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki
by broncosmontana on Mar 10, 2009 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
make that +2008
"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki
by broncosmontana on Mar 10, 2009 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice!
I saw the episode of America’s Game of the 98 Broncos a little while ago, and I totally forgot that TD needed like 170 yards in the last game of the year to hit 2000…awesome.
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
by TD4HOF on Mar 10, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Sayers' stats are closer to Mike Anderson
than TD. But I’m climbing off the soapbox now.
How’s that Broncos for Canton website coming, guys? lol
"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki
by broncosmontana on Mar 10, 2009 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Sayers was also an electric returner
I don’t think you can compare them head to head
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 10, 2009 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember watching Sayers play.
He really did have a touch of magic. I’ve read here, and I agree, that we don’t so much disagree with those selected for the h.o.f. (de-emphasisi added) as we do with the failure to select certain Broncos who also had that magic but labored in an overlooked market.
Maybe it is a similar arguement to all the fabulous players in the Negro League before baseball became integrated.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Mar 11, 2009 8:29 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my point
Guys like Joiner are in but the guys you mentioned are not. By those standards, we should have at least 20 players in the HOF, which even I admit is crazy talk. I don’t argue that Smith should be in — I just don’t like the double-standard we’re always seeing.
"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki
by broncosmontana on Mar 10, 2009 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I don't mind some of the guys that aren't in...
It’s the number of merely good players from popular teams that are in. We should stop calling it the HoF and start calling it the Hall of Popularity. That’s really all it is anymore. If the MSM fauns over a player they get in. If they don’t the player doesn’t, no matter how deserving.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 10, 2009 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't EVEN get me started.
h.o.f. (de-emphasis added).
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Mar 10, 2009 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki
by broncosmontana on Mar 10, 2009 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to look at the era
There was a whole lot more passing going on in the NFL while Rod was playing then during Joiner’s days. I always thought Michael Irvin was a better comparison for Rod since their careers overlapped a bit.
(And of course those same HOF never look at the era when evaluating Floyd Little’s stats)
by MattR on Mar 10, 2009 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But wasn't Joiner part of "Air Coryell"?
Sorry, I know the HOF debate has been beaten into the ground and this should probably be in another thread. It’s just so easy to get worked up about. ; )
"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki
by broncosmontana on Mar 10, 2009 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y! - COPS Part 2 Bucs LB Geno Hayes was stabbed in the head and neck neck by his girlfriend.
Is that chick BMarsh’s next new girlfriend?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Mar 10, 2009 9:16 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The draft order doesnt make any sense
Denver has the #12 in the first round
then they get the16th pick in the second round
then they get the 15th in the third
in the last round sna diego actually picks in front of Denver
Can anybody explain this?
by bronco on Mar 10, 2009 9:17 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I can fully explain it...
But 5 teams finished 8-8: Denver, San Diego, Houston, New Orleans and Washington. Denver gets the first pick amongst those in Round 1 because (I believe) their strength of schedule. After that, I think it alternates. Each team picks between 12 and 16 in each round, and they rotate…
by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 10, 2009 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much it
All the teams tied with the same record end up in a pool together (except the two super bowl teams are always 31st and 32nd). Within each pool, it is broken into tiers based on how deep into the playoffs the teams went. Each tier is then sorted by strength of schedule (weakest SOS picks earliest). This order is used for the first round. In all subsequent rounds, the order is rotated with the team at the front moving to the end of the line and every one else moving up a spot.
Of the five teams who finished 8-8, the primary order (used in round 1) is Denver, Washington, New Orleans, Houston and San Diego.
In round 2 Denver moves to the end of the line so it is Washington, New Orleans, Houston, San Diego, Denver.
I think the rotation part makes sense, but I think they need to better deal with the playoff teams. I don’t think they should ever pick ahead of non-playoff teams with the same record. I also think that how far a team advances in the playoffs should matter. San Diego also picks ahead of the Colts even though SD beat Indy in the playoffs. Same with Baltimore beating Tennessee and the Eagles beating the Giants.
by MattR on Mar 10, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bye Bye Cutler
You people are living in a dream world. “Oh, poor Denver, the evil ‘mainstream media’ is trying to destroy us!!… ESPN is out to get us!”. Grow the fuck up! If this whole trade scenario was a complete fabrication and there was never any truth to it, why haven’t McDaniels & Cutler met yet?!? It shouldn’t be that hard for a coach to sit down with his player and say, “Hey this isn’t true- you’re our guy”. Why then all of the drama and anticipation toward “clearing the air”? Cutler shot his mouth off about wanting to be traded because he found out trade rumors were true, & McDaniels has yet to meet with him because he’s STILL TRYING TO TRADE HIM!! Deal with it.
by tommynobis on Mar 10, 2009 1:43 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Whisky Tango Foxtrot, Over?
Dude…get back under your bridge
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Mar 10, 2009 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you have anything credible to back that up
we’re all ears. If not, maybe you should spend a little more time reading the threads here. You might just learn something halfway intelligent.
"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki
by broncosmontana on Mar 10, 2009 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Language, brother.
Tommy N00Bis, you have made 2 comments and in both of them have told us to grow up and cussed us out, with no provocation. You are the one in need of growing up, Tommy.
And for your information, Cutler couldn’t meet with McDaniels, because he was, you know, on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. Those kinds of things aren’t exactly easy to get over. And a face-to-face meeting is better than one over the phone. (For example, usually cussing people out is more personal face-to-face, but when you do it behind an anonymous moniker and a keyboard you just look like a retard and everyone laughs at you.)
I picked the wrong weekend to quit sniffing glue...
by papigrande on Mar 10, 2009 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm the Bad Guy
“You need people like me… so you can point your *%$@ing finger and say, ’That’s the bad guy’!” -Tony Montana
I apologize for “cussing you all out” (though one curse word in each post hardly seems to warrant a “cuss-out” accusation). In the future, I shall be more conscious of the delicate sensibilities of this family site (however, I call shenanigans on Mr. Grande here, because he makes a disparaging remark about my potential resemblance to a “retard” while simultaneously scolding me… is it deemed acceptable by MHR for posters to ridicule the mentally challenged?). What I won’t do is drink the MHR Kool-aid. It was suggested that I “read more threads here” in order to “learn something halfway intelligent”… like what- how to put a positive spin on everything that occurs? Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I don’t think the Broncos organization is perfect, and I don’t think that everyone (in or out of the bogeyman “mainstream media”) who isn’t a faithful Broncos fan is out to destroy our franchise! Do you honestly think ESPN had a board meeting and brainstormed the idea to run with a completely made up story about the Broncos just for the sheer joy of causing havoc? I decided to join this site because I like to be in the loop with my Broncs & see what other fans are saying. But what some of you fail to realize is that the contributors on this site are just fans like you and me (maybe with a little more time on their hands though). I doubt their sources are more reliable than the ones that made Cutler speak out… oh, and yes, I do believe a phone call is much better than a waiting game for putting someone’s mind at ease. (but what do I know I’m just a coward who hides behind a moniker and a keyboard… laugh away gentlemen.)
by tommynobis on Mar 10, 2009 5:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
We don't want to point our fingers, though
unless we are pointing them at non-broncos fans, and for some posters here, even that isn’t particularly tasteful. Despite Tony Montana’s wisdom, a lot of people who post here do so because they were tired of there being “bad guys,” or of being accused of being bad guys. They don’t want them, and they don’t need them.
Now, you weren’t the bad guy because you held a contrarion opinion, you weren’t a bad guy because you think the situation isn’t rosy, and you weren’t even the bad guy for cussing, because that happens sometimes. You were a bad guy when you attacked the community, not the idea. You prompted a self-defense, or retaliation in kind, especially by Papi who is obviously on high-troll-alert right now. But give the kid a break, he only just recently stopped sniffing glue… Admittedly everyone except Thorpe who replied took a swipe, but you do recognize they were acting in self-defense? Your halfway sincere-sounding apology will actually soothe a lot more than you might expect, if only because no one wanted you to be an enemy, and they would only be too happy to welcome you.
As far as MHR being a “positive spin” place, it is less about the spin and more about the positivity. We have one editorial message: The Broncos Rock. We have one editorial position: It Rocks to be a Broncos Fan. As long as members believe in those two ideas there is very little outside of personal attacks that could be regarded as inappropriate. We can’t help it if we sound positive about the Broncos, because even tough love is love.
As far as the Cutler incident specifically, it has been talked about and analyzed so much that most posters here have come to the conclusion that we need to let the chips fall where they may at this point, because we simply aren’t privy to enough info to call it one way or the other. Strong cases for each side and strong contradictions for both cases crop up, and rather than continue to play “telephone” most fans are prepared to look forward to the season rather than dwell on whatever negative ramifications come of it. The negativity will take care of itself when the time comes, there is no reason to waste short moments in a short life fostering it or breeding it. I suspect this is what broncosmontana was referring to with his advice that you read more threads, not that you needed to become a cipher. We rely on opposing viewpoints to keep learning, but this issue has just burned a lot of people out or shortened their fuses.
As to media bias? I don’t think you will find one person here who thinks that there are people out there (besides Al Davis) who are “sitting in their laboratory, twisting their moustache and hatching an evil plan.” No, the bumbling ESPN, the cynical sportswriters the agenda-wielding h.o.f. committee and the rest of their ilk aren’t criminal masterminds guilty of plotting and planning the demise of the Broncos. If anything we view them like spoiled kids who got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, who are mad because they can’t have the cookies and blow up the kitchen. They have a motive for stirring the rumor pots or in writing inflammatory pieces, and it really has nothing to do with the Broncos. It goes a lot deeper and crosses the boundaries of sports into other areas of life. Thus it hits close to home and gets to be a touchy subject. I have the viewpoint that cynicism accomplishes nothing because it denies the one basis for fixing any problems, but I don’t disparage any fan their desire to rip into the MSM as a general idea, or to get after a specific writer with specific facts, including me. I know that the truth makes peope better, so I don’t worry about what happens when people are earnestly working to figure it out.
Bottom line is that personal attacks, even general ones aimed at a group here, are a sure way to get their dander up. But I think you’ll find that going after an idea with teeth bared and weapons out, is a sure way to get a great discussion going, even if it doesn’t change a lot of minds. Like Broncosmontana said, “We’re all ears,” and we’re all here for the same thing: to make talking Broncos a rewarding pasttime, not an exercise in futility and frustration.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 10, 2009 8:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said, styg.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Mar 11, 2009 8:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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