How Bad Can it Be?
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 12:38 PM MDT
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PrintIn my career as a project manager I have had day, weeks, even months when it seemed like everything was going to heck in a hand basket. In those times I always found it helpful to ask myself how bad could it really be. As Broncos fans the last 10 days seem to be one of those trying times. So I ask myself, how bad can it really be?
Worst Case
At this point probably our worst case scenario as fans is that Jay Cutler will somehow force the Broncos to trade him to another team. Let me stress - I AM NOT ADVOCATING TRADING JAY - But, in my opinion this does represent a worst case scenario.
For many of us, Cutler has become, in our minds, the QB who is going to lead us back to the promised land. Certainly Mike Shanahan seemed to believe that. It feels like if Cutler leaves there go our dreams as well. But is that necessarily so?
How Bad Is That
To be sure, Jay is the most talented QB we've seen since John Elway, possibly the most talented young QB in the game today. However, do we really need a great QB? Ben Rothlesburger has one two and while he's decent, I don't think anyone considers him great. Jim Plunket also one two. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostedtler, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams have all won the big game and I don't think anyone even considers the hof when thinking of those guys.
John Elway may be the greatest ever, but he couldn't get it done without the supporting cast. Once that cast was assembled they may have been able to win both Super Bowls without Elway. (Even with Elway they couldn't beat Jacksonville in 96 without TD) So maybe it's premature to close Dove Valley and write off the season.
What About A Trade
So what if JC is traded - what would that mean to the team? While it's difficult to find out the actual details of the trade that didn't happen, What I've read leads me to believe that Tampa was willing to part with their #1 (19th) and either their 2nd or their 3rd (I've read both). I think it's quite conceivable that the Broncos could get a 1st and a 2nd for Cutler and possibly a conditional 3rd.
Who might make that trade? Tampa Still seems interested if you believe their local papers. Rumor is that Detroit is as well and possibly the Jets. I wouldn't want to see Cutler in the AFC but I could live with any of those.
What Would We Do
Well it's intriguing to consider just what we might do with an extra 1st and 2nd pick. For one thing we could fix the NT position. I think Fields is a good fill-in. But we really need a dominant NT. Maybe Cleveland could be convinced to give up Shaun Rogers for a 1st and a 3rd. Or maybe we could trade up to where we could draft BJ Raji Bell. Rogers would make more of an immediate impact, but Bell Raji might be a better long term investment.
We could also look at the QB position. I think Simms could be an adequate caretaker, but I would feel better with a higer quality QB. We might also be able to trade up the get Stafford or White (I prefer White but others may disagree). Alternatively, the Cardinals have an problem with Matt Leinart now that the've signed Warner to a new deal. We could trade for Leinart. I think Leinart was overrated coming out of USC, but all indication are that he was a better QB than Cassel. Maybe it could work.
Do I think either of these two QB alternative are better than having Cutler? Of course not! BUT, fixing NT and bringing in a QB could actually be bette than keeping Cutler. And it's probably no worse. At least with a good defense you can stay in games.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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I think that trading Cutler would be on par with drafting Sam Bowie.
I voted that the sky is falling. ;-)
I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. -Dave Barry
Sorry, but...
…a great QB is a rare find, and Jay Cutler is just that. Trade a sure thing for a 1st and a 2nd? Half the time they turn out to be busts. Yes, some teams won the SB without a great QB, but they had to have 21 other top notch starters to do it.
You can observe a lot just by watching. Yogi Berra
Agreed
I am not a fan of how Cutler has handled this situation but trading Cutler would result in a total rebuild. Whatever trade value he had when they were doing it on the sly is gone now that it is in the open. Probably would net a 2nd round pick or something to that affect. Also pretty certain that Marshall due to his many problems and close relationship with Jay would most likely be gone. As Bradley noted winning with an average QB can only be accomplished if the team is strong from top to bottom and Denver’s only bright spot currently is a talented and young offense which would be gutted. The only option I see is Xanders and McDaniels swallowing some pride and fixing this situation. They have a gifted young QB with 3 years left on a very reasonable contract and a offense that does not need any fixing if they make peace. If not they have a mess on D and a mess on O.
Raji Bell?
Do you mean BJ Raji? Very nice post though. good thinking – fans are starved for info right now, and they react very strongly (and usually negatively) to change. It’s not a bad situation – it has been badly handled with Cutler, but the signings have been fine – neither earth shattering nor bad – and the draft right now gives us 9 new players. FA isn’t over by a long way. Things are moving along, and we won’t even know how we’re doing until we get on the field
By the way, a lot of fans in Pittsburgh were calling for Big Ben’s head last summer and long discussions were held to the effect that he was a one-season wonder and couldn’t win another SB. People want perfection, and since we’re all people, that isn’t going to happen. It take a heck of a lot of small steps to wi another SB, and ir won’t happen in one year, either. Give the man time.
Hillis in '09
Trade Cutler?
For whom? Leinart? No thanks. Or anyone else on any current roster as far as I am concerned. Draft picks? You better get a couple of 1st rounders, including a high one, plus maybe a second, third and fourth rounder. Even then, who are you going to draft to replace him? Stafford or Sanchez? I just can’t see it. If you ask me, the Bronco Brass needs to straighten this STUFF out fast. I don’t know, maybe I’m just going to have a real problem getting used to the freaking “Patriot Way” which, come to think of it, I never liked anyway.
"Be not like dumb-driven cattle...."
That's not the point!
The only one calling for a trade at this point, might be Cutler (even that is just a rumor). But, he could actually force a trade just before the draft if he really digs in.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, I'm not going to buy into anything until OFFICIAL WORD comes from Dove Valley...
until then, everything I hear is garbage.
Remember folks, as I’m sure you all already know, the MSM does NOT always have the truth, in fact they rarely do…Remember that just because you heard a rumor doesn’t mean it’s true, regardless of how “close to the source” their leads are. I worked in journalism for a while and I’ll tell you first hand that their source could have been the secretary at the front desk that saw McD’s and X’s faces when they came out and figured that she could piece the story together in her own head.
Sources don’t mean a thing and until I hear official word from someone, I don’t buy into it.
Peyton Hillis in '09.
Name him---Mr. Balls....or Thunderpussy.
I'm with you...
at this point I’m not sure anything is certain. But I find it useful to look at different scenarios.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Good Post, SWG
I do think you kind of smiley-faced the “How Bad is That?” scenario. I think it can be A LOT worse than just saying, well we can win with a systems guy like other teams did.
IMHO i think this kind of fiasco can throw an organization into a spiraling hell for years. will it? hopefully, like you propose, it won’t. i think if the trade goes down though, it’s a lot more conceivable that the Broncos end up with a depressingly mediocre QB (many more of those than good ones) and worse, a team and fan base with a chip on it’s shoulder for years. Dang, aren’t I Mr. Gloom. Sorry.
Anyway, love the thoughts. Rec’d.
As with most of you, I have mixed feelings over this whole Drama-- McJayGate----and it changes
with each new post. The msm are in the business to fan the flames of which ever ember glows
the brightest. We are fortunate here at MHR to have cooler heads, that can show us the fallacy of
following those msm lemmings off to proverbial cliff.
I take this time to salute you here at MHR—(-you know who you are,) sanity among the fans
I here these words uttered——-and this two shall pass—-
we will be alright!!
GO BRONCOS
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
My feeling is this, there is no trade that I can concieve of that would make us a better team next year or 5 years from now
You bring up excellent points, but I just think it is too hard to find a guy under 26, that has Cutler’s ability. The thing is he is not close to the QB he will be in three years or in six years. Building a dynasty is a lot easier with a young, talented, top 5 QB than with journeyman. Off all the dynasties, not one did not have a top flight HOF QB, Pats- Brady, Broncos – Elway, Cowboys – Aikman, 49ers – Montana/Young, Steelers- Bradshaw, Cowboys-Staubach, Packers – Starr, Colts – Unitas, Browns -Graham, they go hand in hand, so unless you can get a potential HOF QB in the deal, why make it. And despite what you may say, Rothesburger is a better QB than many in the NFL right now.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"McDaniels must go!" - Broncoman
Now question about it...
building a dynasty would be a lot easier with Cutler (there’s an understatement). But that may not be entirely in the Bronco’s hands. And I agree that Big Ben is better than a lot of fans give him credit for. But I don’t think he’s hall of popularity material yet. Of course I don’t really think Bradshaw was that great, but he sure had an uncomparable supporting cast and he rose to the occasion. Remember Chuck Noll actually benched him for Terry Hanratty, then Joe Gilliam.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe my memory is too good
I seem to remember a loooong list of mediocres before Elway came along. It’s a little scary to think of trying to replace Cutler.
"Be not like dumb-driven cattle...."
Craig Morton didn't do so badly
considering the cast he had around him. But I agree, there aren’t many Cutler’s around. On the other hand, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco didn’t do too badly.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Really?
How about Tom Brady, Vince Wilfork and the Pats’ No. 1?
There are obviously trades that would make the Broncos better, the question is are there viable trades that would make us better.
That answer may be no, but nobody is untradable.
She turned me into a newt .... I got better.
by DUCUgradinOhio on Mar 11, 2009 6:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Hey, they ARE trading Tony
He and Cutler are going to KC to play under Shanahan again. You remember – Shanahan went to K, right?. Made all the MSM. Gotta love a good, juicy rumor.
Hillis in '09
WOW!
I thought you were a little off before,but now I think you confirmed it!lol.Their is no QB in the the draft or in the league worth tradeing Cutler for,and trade him for a NT dude COME ON!!!!!
Natural Wonder
As I said in the article...
I don’t advocate trading Cutler. But there are rumors (and that’s all they are) that HE might force a trade.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions
The whole notion of trading Cutler makes me want to....
eat my gun. However, if we had to work out a deal, I would have a trade similar to this:
Three way deal:
Detroit gives: 1st round pick (#20) to Denver ; 4th round pick to Cleveland Browns
Cleveland gives: Derek Anderson to Denver
Detroit gets Cutler.
Denver walks away with pick #20 in the first round and Derek Anderson, who I think is a good QB. This is a pointless waste of time on my part and will no doubt annoy many readers.
I am 99.9% sure that Cutler and McD will kiss and make up.
I hope you're right about McD and Cutler,
but if they don’t I thik what you propose would also work. Anderson isn’t half the QB that Cutler is, but with a second 1st we could do some serious damage in the draft.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions
I wonder what Pat Bowlen is thinking?
This is what happens when you hire an arrogant 32 year old coach from New England of all places. They think they know it all. I wasn’t a fan of the hire to begin with and for hi mto come in here and start this crap with our franchise player is unreal. I’m 110% on Cutler’s side with this one.
I can just hope that Cutler takes his anger out on the field and lights things up. If not, we are looking at Reeves-Elway II.
I just don’t like seeing the Orange Crush in the middle of drama. This is the type of thing the Cowboys and Raiders do, not us.
Oh we seem to have to do this
about every 8 years or so. Reeves tried to trade Elway. Shanahan tried to trade Sharpe. It happens more than we hear about.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions
True!
True,but dumb!If McD trades Cutler he should be fired PERIOD!!!He must be on acid,or coke if he can’t see what he has,or could have in Cutler.Any other coach would kill to have a QB like Jay,and to have him in a place like Denver.He has a baby Elway on his hands,and obviously dose’nt know what too do with him.
Natural Wonder
If McD trades Cutler
it will only be because Cutler forces him too. How is that dumn on his part?
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 3:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Disagree
If McD never entertained or tried to trade Cutler this entire episode would not have taken place. This is a self inflicted wound by McD. If he eventually trades him it will because he lost control of the situation and badly handled his pr duties and media relations. If he trades him and gets market value, ie a young pro bowl qb he will have salvaged the situation or if they make their peace he will have salvaged the situation. If he dumps him for a 2nd round pick or some or fire sale he will have hurt the franchise unnecessarily and that is the very definition of dumn and dumb.
If McD did TRY to trade Cutler....
then I agree with you, it is self-inflected. If he simpy answered his phone and did his due diligence, I don’t think so. I suspect reality is probably somewhere in between. It’s quite possible that McD heard the offer, was interested and floated it to Bowlen who shot it down. I do think he grossly underestimated the blowback.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 4:14 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree with what you say, SWG
But McD should have had the sense to get on the phone, call Cutler, and let him know what happened. That would have averted all of this flap-doodle.
You can observe a lot just by watching. Yogi Berra
None of really knows what happened
We really only have a few quotes from those involved and it could be much rosier than the media is speculating it is. I don’t want to give the impression that I think Cutler handled this as a professional because I do not. I think both McD and Cutler have handled this poorly but ultimately this is on McD to fix because he is going to be standing on the sidelines calling the plays into Jay or a QB to be named later. He will be judged by the win and loss record next year. I am really disappointed in the young gm’s failure to deal with the situation. He supposedly handles personal decisions and is responsible for the roster. He is the ‘principle’ in this situation and needs to call the teacher and student in the office and take care of business. From the outside looking in it looks like Xanders is an impotent leader who exists to write checks and Mcd makes the decisions.
Good post SWG
Thanks for asking an unpopular question. I have wondered if the worst-case scenario is not a trade for Cutler, but a salty and dysfunctional relationship between our QB and coach. I wonder if bad blood, mistrust, and unresolved hurt there would actually be worse… At some price point, and I’m not sure what that is, trading Cutler would start to make sense. We can all debate that price, but it is there somewhere…
That's a good point too!
There is a point where the relationship becomes so dysfunctional that continuing no longer makes sense. I think Elway and Reeves reached that point. Let’s hope Jay and Josh do not.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 11, 2009 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Hypothetical Trade
Nice post. Keeping Jay and patching things up is best. But if not possible then I think the best trade scenario is with Detroit for picks 20 and 34. Lions get their OT with first pick and Denver (hopefully) gets Sanchez at 12, Tyson Jackson at 20, Laurinaitis at 34 and the other BC NT with their other 2nd rounder – not a bad haul. The Lions get a proven QB and their OT at a cheaper price. Remember that KC already has a QB so even if someone takes Stafford its fairly likely that Sanchez is there at 12. The guy reportedly has a great blue collar work ethic (he did everything at the Combine) and likely would have been a very high pick if he stayed at USC. Someone said Jay would only fetch a 2nd rounder now – no way. Lots of teams would want him.
Hypothetical Trade Redux
Posted on another thread but appropriate here.
The first scenario (and my preferred one based on decades of Bronco worship) is that Bowlen falls for it and gives Cutler a long term deal as soon as possible as his talent only comes around once a decade.
The second is that McD/X/Bowlen trade the franchise QB before the draft…
My question is, to whom?
I suggest to Detroit for their two first rounders (1 and 20).
We pick up the following:
1. 1 – Aaron Curry, OL Wake Forest
2. 12 – Tyson Jackson, DE LSU – (IF Raji is gone)
3. 20 – Mark Sanchez, QB USC – (Simms starts for the next year…)
4. 48 – Ron Brace, DT Boston College
Either way, the Broncos will have to "Pony Up" the cash.
Thoughts anyone?
This is my first night of posting after lurking for a couple of months.
GREAT SITE!!!
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