Horse Tracks 3/17/09

by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 17, 2009 5:53 AM MDT in Horse Tracks Comment 34 comments

Horsetracks_new_medium

DP - Josh McDaniels impressed his players in their first meeting as coach and team.

DP - Brian Dawkins was in Hawaii for the NFLPA meeting, while Brandon Marshall and Casey Wiegmann made it to yesterday's team meeting. Peyton Hillis expects a full recovery within a month, and today the Broncos will work out Connor Barwin, who we all learned about from the Good Doctor.

DP - Mike Klis lists possible trade partners for the Broncos and their disgruntled ~~agent who had been out of the spotlight since Brett Favre retired~~ quarterback. Meanwhile, Eddie Royal is 100% professional, in case you didn't know.

DP - Klis answers a bunch of emails. You'll never guess who half of them are about...

DP - Kiszla runs through some trade possibilities for You Know Who. I'm sure that today's the only day we'll hear these, right? Right?!

NFL - Here's video of Kenny Peterson and Eddie Royal talking about You Know Who.

NFL - Rich Eisen and Company discuss Jay Cutler's abilities.

NFL - Eisen, Rod Woodson and Solomon Wilcotts talk about where Cutler could end up.

NFL - Eisen went over the day's Cutler news here.

NFL - Thomas George thinks McD deserves a bit more of the blame than he's gotten.

NFP - Matt Bowen offers his opinion on the situation in Denver.

WIVB - The Cook is at it again, this time reportedly talking to the Bills about Tony Scheffler. This guy has some nerve, huh?

Scout - The Broncos have a private workout with Louisville center Eric Wood scheduled for today.

NFL - Vic Carucci is reporting that New England is close to a deal for Julius Peppers. However, the Panthers say they're 'not aware' of such a trade.

Well, here come the "Trade for Jay Cutler" columns...

ESPN - John Clayton thinks Cutler would be a fit in Cleveland.

FOX - Here's who Alex Marvez thinks Denver should call.

Newsday - Wallace Matthews makes his call for the Jets to acquire J.C. Meanwhile, Bob Glauber presents the other side of the argument.

BN - This Chicago Bears columnist says "Trade for Cutler!" And here's another Chicago guy's take.

Blog - The guys at Kornheiser's Cartel think Cutler should follow the example of Drew Brees, show up and play hard.

ESPN - Rick Reilly chimed in as well. Thanks to BloodOrange for the tip!

Y! - Chargers OT Jeromey Clary signed his one-year tender.

DFP - The Lions have signed former Seahawks tight end Will Heller to a one-year contract. L.J. Smith is also a possibility in Detroit. Meanwhile, the Lions' own former tight end took Heller's place in Seattle.

Y! - The Cardinals have agreed to terms with former Browns RB Jason Wright.

Y! - The Rams signed six players yesterday.

Y! - The Jaguars dumped WR Matt Jones after his release from jail.

Y! - The Bears re-signed LB Nick Roach.

Y! - The Jets re-upped with CB Ahmad Carroll.

Y! - The Patriots re-signed four players and added former Cowboys center Al Johnson.

NFL - The Steelers re-signed linebackers Andre Frazier and Arnold Harrison.

Y! - The Packers have matched the Titans' offer for CB Jarrett Bush.

Y! - KR Courtney Roby has decided to stay in New Orleans.

Y! - PK Shaun Suisham is remaining in Washington.

Y! - The 49ers signed two players - LB Mark Washington and S Lewis Baker.

SFG - Tom Cable is happy going to work with the same players as last year.

SFG - The Raiders are looking functional again, as compared to the Broncos.

NFP - Mike Lombardi looks at the AFC North teams and their pre-draft questions.

SI - Bucky Brooks thinks the Cards would be okay without Anquan Boldin, while the Chargers need LDT.

Y! - New NFLPA head DeMaurice Smith is ready to talk about a new CBA.

ESPN - Meanwhile, Smith has asked Tony Dungy to act as a liaison between the NFLPA and the NFL.

Y! - Charles Robinson talks about the NFL's best breeding grounds.

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Comments

Sorry so late today...

But there’s just so much news!!!!!

by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 17, 2009 5:53 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow, major props for covering all the bases!!

The more I scrolled, the more I appreciated what you do every morning. Great job!

"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy." - Horvil Tiki
"Enter Bus Cook, and his Methods of Madness." - Styg50

by broncosmontana on Mar 17, 2009 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, BM!

by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 17, 2009 9:06 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, great job.

That is quite a lof of news to take care of. Awesome job.

2007-08 MVP: Kobe Bryant

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 9

by weazel on Mar 17, 2009 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

No prob nyc, you do a great job with this!

I hope that my avatar is a sign of things to come for a verrrrry long time :-)

by ohiobronco on Mar 17, 2009 6:32 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Everyone needs to read the first article.

It sounds like the players are on board for the new coach. It’s a shame Cutler isn’t there, but I chalk this up to a young man being “played” by an agent. I’m feeling better and better about McDaniels all of the time.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Mar 17, 2009 7:10 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

I’m looking forward to many years with McDaniels as our HC

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Mar 17, 2009 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

+2

Bring on the season. I have a feeling McDaniels could turn even Simms into a Pro Bowl QB, and Cutler into a HOFer if he’d let him.

"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy." - Horvil Tiki
"Enter Bus Cook, and his Methods of Madness." - Styg50

by broncosmontana on Mar 17, 2009 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right on time nyc, I concur HT, McD seems to have the players all headed

in the right direction— we shall see about….

Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM

by UB3 on Mar 17, 2009 7:17 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

But what makes more sense, is that Cook is talking to the Bills about another one of his clients–TE Tony Scheffler (above left). Scheffler, like Cutler, is also ready to move on from the Broncos, and there were reports a few days ago that Denver was ready to give Cook authority to scout out the trade landscape.

Is that not tampering? I have my doubts that after this Cutler thing, that the Broncos would give Cook any authority to do anything in regards to another player under contract.

by hallandnash on Mar 17, 2009 7:22 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

This was in the comments on the Kizla story

Kizla is my all time least favorite sports writer. For some reason I read the column in the Post today. In the comments section on Post website was this nugget:

McGeorge wrote:This was such a great post by MCotter, I have to run again.

MCotter wrote:
"Here’s what happened, according to a Broncos player:

First, McDaniels initiated the talks w/ New England WITHOUT talking to Bowlen (owner) or Xanders (GM) first. He didn’t negotiate w/ them, he just placed the call to inquire. Over a matter of days, Xanders negotiated w/ NE, lost out on Cassel, and Cutler got wind of it through Cook. Cutler then called McDaniels, who played dumb. In a later conversation w/ Xanders, McDaniels was inadvertently outed as having known about the trade talks. So, Cutler asked McDaniels about it and McDaniels came clean. But, McDaniels insisted he didn’t initiate the trade talks, but was only a willing listener (which is being a good coach if true). But, (and I’m a little unclear on the details) Cook either has another client on the Pats or is tight with the GM, b/c their GM told Cook that the trade talks were initiated by McDaniels. Xanders, in a round about way, then confirmed that in a conversation w/ Cutler. He apparently tried to sweep it under the rug when Cutler first asked if McDaniels initiated the trade talks. He told Cutler that it wasn’t important and that what was important was that they were committed to him going forward.

But, Cutler was ticked b/c McDaniels lied to him multiple times. So, he went to the media (which was a mistake) to air his grievances. The phone conversation and subsequent meeting went poorly b/c McDaniels (a) refused to own up to having initiated the call to NE, instead trying to blow off the questions, and (b) he took a very hard line stance w/ Cutler. Rather than humbling out, he drew a line in the sand and pretty much said, it happened….deal with it. From what I gather, the coach’s attitude was just one big giant F-U. Supposedly he talked down to him pretty bad, like he was doing Cutler a favor by even letting him play. That’s not what McDaniels said, just what Josh implied w/ tone/body language/insinuations.

So, that’s what led to Cutler demanding a trade. He didn’t feel like McDaniels was committed to him, didn’t feel like McDaniels was a high integrity/honest guy, and didn’t feel like McDaniels was invested in seeing him succeed. So, rather than going further down a path that may be very bad for him professionally and personally, he asked for a trade."

Ladies and Gents, the new coach of the Denver Patriots.

Now, this is not a verifiable source, but it does provide some color on Cutler’s POV as why he feels betrayed/misled/deceived.

by ColoradoOwl on Mar 17, 2009 7:57 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I write fiction from this viewpoint all the time

Its called “third-person omniscient POV” and it allows you to know what every character is thinking. As a tool for an author, writing a story, it is exceptionally powerful, allowing psychological and intellectual “battles within the human soul” to play out.

It is also an impossible viewpoint in real life. Let’s say that this Bronco’s player existed and told this story just like this. Where did he hear it from? Who knows. The story purports to know what everyone is thinking, starting with McDaniels. McDaniels is the only one who knows whether he called in secret, and whether it was to inquire or to actively puruse a trade. It then goes on to tell us how Cutler felt emotionally about all of the events laid out ahead of it. Impossible viewpoint, certainly not available to a player, and not available to any soul which only inhabits one body.

This sounds more like what someone would say who had listened to Cutler air his grievances, but even Cutler doesn’t have the viewpoint required to know what happened when McDaniels was alone, nor what happened in the immediate aftermath. He would have heard THAT from someone else, most likely his agent who was checking up on proceedings in Dove Valley after someone ELSE told him that something was happening that might involve Jay. But EVEN Cook doesn’t have the required viewpoint to know what McDaniels was thinking and why he was on the phone and whether he was called or did the calling, and McDaniels and Xanders sure as hell didn’t tell him. Either another viewpoint is involved (one of the trading partners) or someone is making something up, or speculating what they think they know, not what they actually know.

The exact same thing happened inthe Favre case, except that instead of a trade, the unknown thoughts were how management felt about Favre, and whether they had done enough to make him feel “wanted”.

I defy anyone to provide an instance where an agent and player would accept anything except money (from another team, if need be) in order to feel “wanted.”

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 17, 2009 8:54 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

Excellent rebuttal

Thanks Five Oh.

"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy." - Horvil Tiki
"Enter Bus Cook, and his Methods of Madness." - Styg50

by broncosmontana on Mar 17, 2009 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Comment stories like that are utter nonsense. If they were reputable they would be posted somewhere as a big story.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Mar 17, 2009 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh Agree Absolutely

I was posting to provide a player’s perspective. As I mentioned at the end of my post, the facts as stated are not verifiable. I did not mean to imply that I endorse this version of the story. Just throwing it out there.

by ColoradoOwl on Mar 17, 2009 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought you were pretty clear about that.

I went to the DP to get the context for the post itself, but time folded on itself and I ended up back here, only about 15 minutes older than when I left.

It was disconcerting.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 17, 2009 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I should mention

that this comes back to what colinski talked about last night regarding “wishful thinking.” Cutler is definitely only acknowledging select facts and thoughts in his viewpoint. We too, should be wary of that trap, and weigh our own thoughts carefully before giving them posterity in posting. What is lacking in all of this is explicit confirmations of motive, and outside of confessions, I think any detective will tell you that we will never really be satisified with any explanation.

Luckily the Broncos have a 50 year history, and many more years of history ahead as well, including such short-term joys as the draft, Special Editon MHR swag as prizes in draft contests coming up later, training camp, preseason, and the 2009 regular season to keep us all satisfied. Orange and Blue goes with anything, so I’m not worried about “closure” in this situation. Its not why I watch.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 17, 2009 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently you're not the only one who writes fiction

I spent over an hour tracking down the original post McGeorge cited, in case it had more detailed attribution than McGeorge included. But “Here’s what happened, according to a Broncos player” is the sum total of mcotter1’s attribution. I think he made up the story to inflate his sense of self-importance. I guess we’re expected to believe either that the football player was hiding somewhere in McDaniels’ office while he was doing his highhanded thing, or that McDaniels singled him out to confide in, and that this player then singled out Mr. Cotter, who must be feeling very important indeed, to confide in in turn. After that it’s a matter of people hearing what they want to hear, a necessary ingredient in any hoax, with Mr. George (“McDaniels is a vile man”) being the prime disseminator.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Mar 17, 2009 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the info...

One of the most important ingredients to the integrity of MHR, is posters such as yourself and styg who take the time to sift through the dross and find the real gold. There are many others, colinski, mattr, nybroncosfan, bear, etc. and of course HT and TSG. I’m sure I’m leaving many out but it is the discipline of MHR members who make it the (only) credible source for intelligent inforation and diuscussion on things Bronco related.

Thanks

by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 17, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

transparency and opaqueness in haggling

It occurred to me that declaring your intentions when haggling over terms is like unilateral disarmament, the particulars don’t know what the other party is thinking — as in poker.

So even the most well-placed parties in the McJay-gate drama don’t know whether an offer is real or a bargaining posture — a bluff.

by Colinski on Mar 17, 2009 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah the old embedded quotes trick....

What do we actually have here:
McGeoge quotes MCotter, who in turn quotes “a Bronco player”
One has to ask, which Bronco player? Usually when I see players quoted the players name is given.
Even if it is a Bronco player, how would any player have first hand knowledge of any of these events?
What is the source of this Bronco players knowledge?
Also, who is MCotter that he has access to Broncos players?
Or is he(she) repeating something they read or heard from someone else.
If that is the case, who is this intermediate source?

Not only is this “not verifiable” it is not credible, even in the least bit.
Many fans already have their minds made up as to who the bad guys are in this saga. But none of that is based on fact, which seems to be in short supply lately. If someone wants to hate on McD, then just hate on him, but don’t try and justify it with cherry picked quotes and misquotes.
If someone want to blame it on “Crybaby Jay.” Go ahead. But don’t pretend to us that it is based on a reasoned assessment of the facts, because none of us has access to them.

This is a stressful situation for fans, but none of us help the situation by feeding the rumor mill or adding to the emotional fenzy.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 17, 2009 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least one other poster

asked mcotter1 for more detailed attribution, but so far (from perusing a list of mcotter1’s recent posts) has gotten no reply. Nor is he likely to, in my opinion.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Mar 17, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great as usual, NYCBronx

Can I make a request? I think that from now on, any column by Mark Kizsla should be referenced as “Kickin’ it with Kiz.” They’re his words, not our, and seeing a grown man make a fool of himself like that reminds us all that reporters are human, venal, flawed and insecure. Like the rest of us.

Just a thought.

by Chibronx on Mar 17, 2009 8:35 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, CB

Your idea is noted, but I’m confident that the name “Kiszla” on its own makes us all shudder, or at least sends blood pressures rising…

by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 17, 2009 9:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

so true.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 17, 2009 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kizsla is a jerk and a contrarian.

Even Stephen Fatsis says so in his book “a few seconds of panick”.

Average Raider Fan's IQ = 89
Bill Williamson's IQ = 75
Find yours by clicking here.

by kwool79 on Mar 17, 2009 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

a few seconds of panic I mean.

Average Raider Fan's IQ = 89
Bill Williamson's IQ = 75
Find yours by clicking here.

by kwool79 on Mar 17, 2009 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

All this just makes me miss...

the Rocky Mountain News, which couldn’t have timed its demise any worse. :-( (Any time I see Mark Kiszla quoted on national media about the Broncos I shudder and cry a little inside.) And the comments on the RMN always seemed a little more level-headed than on the Post, or is that just me…

Anyway, another reason it’s great to have MHR and appreciate these kinds of posts. Thanks.

by underdog on Mar 17, 2009 10:01 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Horsetracks rocks....

This is an excellent collection of articles.

Amnesty, the idea that you can forgive transgressions against you, gives as much to one side, as it does the other. It has the noble quality of bestowing mercy to both parties.

by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 17, 2009 10:48 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, Styg!

by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 17, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

This

Meanwhile, Smith has asked Tony Dungy to act as a liaison between the NFLPA and the NFL

is a Good.Thing.

Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960

by Darin H on Mar 17, 2009 11:10 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I like the idea of Wood

I really like it, I really, really do. Don’t know if it fits the plan, but they better jump on him if he’s still there in the 3rd.

by Colinski on Mar 17, 2009 3:24 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I think they would be lucky to consider taking him in the 2nd…

Amnesty, the idea that you can forgive transgressions against you, gives as much to one side, as it does the other. It has the noble quality of bestowing mercy to both parties.

by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 17, 2009 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs