To Pay Jay or Not to Pay Jay?
by super7 on Mar 17, 2009 9:49 AM MDT
40 comments
note...this was also posted as a comment on Tollerud's last FanPost and by the time I realized it should be a fanpost, I submitted it, I'm really sorry for doubling up here, guys and gals.
Pay Jay...that’s the best option, in my opinion.
Trade him later or not at all, but the only option at this point is to work a deal out and have a big smiley interview on the NFL network.
If we trade him now, we get 60 cents on the dollar or less.
If we keep him and don’t pay him it will be a distraction all year and will be VERY ugly.
Jay says he can’t trust the management. I don’t disagree that mistrust in the new boss is a big deal, but he is still under contract.
He’s either trying to get retribution for being wronged (not likely) or he and Cook are simply trying to leverage the situation (and have been since Shanny and Bates left) for a bigger payday, which is what I think he’s been doing all along. Jay and Bus wanted a new contract either way, whether Shanny was here or not. This is just more ammo they can use to squeeze the team.
Jay and Josh need to both give a little on what they require, and work out something. If both sides get some of what they want this can be resolved. If Jay gets a pay day (which he deserves, IMO, because there’s not a QB in his league when you consider age, wear and tear, injury history, upside, etc) and Josh admits that he handled this poorly to Jay, this will go by the wayside after a few games.
Jay doesn’t have to capitulate here. Josh does if he wants to win in the first few seasons. If Pat doesn’t want to get involved because it undermined Josh’s autority, then I get understand.
But if Denver didn’t have Cutler, they’d be in hole with no light at the end of the tunnel for at least a few seasons. And if Josh fails and loses Jay before a game’s even played, then Josh will have to pack his bags inside of 3 seasons unless Denver wins playoff games in 2 of the 3 seasons and those odds are not good.
This situation is ridiculous and I appreciate that Josh treats this like a business, but in the end, this isn’t so different than Manny Ramirez with the Red Sox for 2 or 3 seasons in a row and the Kobe thing a few years back. Winning will clear the team’s pimples, but losing will just expose them further. Both the Sox and Lakers paid their star, and this situation isn’t so different.
There will ALWAYS be 2 different sets of rules, one for the star player and one for the rest of the team. I know Josh may think that if he plays it like there’s only one set of rules from day one, that he can start his career off on the right foot. I get that. But lets call a spade a spade here.
Like Reggie Rivers said on the Fan, if McD talked with another team about trading Champ Bailey this week, this time he’d call Champ after taking the offer and let him know that one was considered and not to worry about what he’s gonna hear on the TV and radio. What I’m saying here is that he’d handle it differently this time, and if he admits that to Cutler, that’d be a HUGE step forward.
We can be mad a Jay all we want, but he’s a top flight talent at the most important position and most visible position in the biggest sport in the USA and he’s asking his team to pony up some money because he’s a star and although I think that they way he and Cook have gone about it is underhanded and sneaky, its obvious that a raise is what he and Cook want and that’s all and until they get it, they’re going to be the top story in the NFL and will keep gashing the Denver Broncos organization (which has been realtively drama free since 1994) until they get a resolution.
This publicity is actually escalating Jay’s level of superstar, for better or worse.
It’s not making him more tradeable, but Jay Cutler is a household name because of all of this, not because he’s a Pro Bowler.
Maybe I'm on drugs here, but Denver's still well under the cap and I'm SURE that Denver can get these guys paid.
I'd like an argument from the other side too if its out there...
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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I'm okay with paying Jay
Just not before the season is over and he’s shown us he cares about the Broncos. Right now I feel betrayed by him. Disappointed in McDaniels, but betrayed by Cutler. Traitors don’t deserve new contracts.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Mar 17, 2009 9:59 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the reply
Not sure if I’d call him a traitor. He had a record breaking year and was the best player on a high powered offense. I might try and parlay that into a payday if I was him too, especially considering that he’s going into a new system and could, at any point, get hurt.
by super7 on Mar 17, 2009 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Parlaying a payday is fine
Throwing the whole organization under the Bus in the process is not. Don’t get me wrong, I loved seeing Jay in Orange and Blue last year, but he has single-handedly thrown our organization into the biggest mess since the Reeves / Elway showdown in a fashion none of us would have even fathomed.
You can argue all you want about McDaniels being a liar, too young, crazy for wanting to trade Cutler for Cassel…fine. The problem I have has been how Cutler has handled this. He made it messy. He underhandedly tried to make himself look like a victim to his fans and his team while painting our new management as completely incompetent (for no good reason). It didn’t have to be done like that.
If Jay really wanted to play for his teammates and be a Bronco, he would have been face-to-face with McDaniels and Xanders within a day of finding out what was happening. Not talking to the media like he did.
He’s disrespected McDaniels by not meeting face-to-face without Wormtounge present. (Fair given the situation as far as mistrusting McDaniels)
He’s disrespected Pat Bowlen by not returning his phone calls (completely unfair…this is the owner of the organization…you don’t just ignore him).
He’s disrespected the Bronco fans everywhere by not being a professional about this (unfair again as he has successfully split us into two camps and rocked the foundation of our Bronco world that was already shaky from a coaching change).
Rant off :)
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Mar 17, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, I agrre a little and disagree some too
Jay, whether you like it or not, is worth A LOT on the open market and coming off of a great year, he’s trying to get paid.
McD has some fault in this too. Like Matt Bowen said, if there was a bit more experience in the Denver War Room, they’d have either gotten the Cassell deal done or called Cutler after they realized it fell through to control the spin.
I’m not sure that Cutler has “thrown the organization under the bus” either.
He hasn’t said anything other t han he doesn’t trust the management. I’m a season ticket holder, and a diehard fan of over 30 years, and I think McD isn’t so trustworthy either due to his (or the organization’s) inability to simply explain what happened and that they handled the trade situation poorly.
They just need to talk, and don’t confuse Cutler’s actions for Cook’s actions. Cutler is to blame, he needs to grow up and lead by example, but I kind of don’t balme him.
McDaniels has a shot to be an awesome coach, but this is the WORST possible way to start off a tenure and he should facilitate communication with JUST Cutler and himself. These 2 guys are acting like high school kids in a spat. Cutler needs to take control of his career and meet without Cook present. McDaniels needs to be willing to admit a mistake or an imperfection, even if its just in private to Cutler.
That’s just my opinion.
by super7 on Mar 17, 2009 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is okay to pay Jay too
and if we do it now, it HAS to be heavily incentive laden.
by adamriggs on Mar 17, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
140 million total earnings over 10 years
if he plays 80% of the snaps makes the prow bowl every year throws for 3500yrd every year cuts down on the interceptions dates bowlens daughter, pays off the national debt and gives the government a bail out! is that too much to ask?
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Mar 17, 2009 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally - and
he’s cocky right now, he thinks he’ll throw 50 tds next year, if he does it, pay him!!
by super7 on Mar 17, 2009 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
you forgot
cures cancer and ends world hunger.
Amnesty, the idea that you can forgive transgressions against you, gives as much to one side, as it does the other. It has the noble quality of bestowing mercy to both parties.
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 17, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I will amend the contract before I send!
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Mar 17, 2009 10:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pay Jay
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
Vince Lombardi
by Denver_Native on Mar 17, 2009 10:06 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a prudent move...
I have to side with management on this one. I think its an issue independent from all the drama, too. The fact of the matter is that you can’t throw a huge contract at a guy until you know he can be successful. This offense is a whole new world from the Shannahan system and Cutler being a good fit is not a given. There will be entire games in which Cutler will be expected to harness his arm and dink and dunk all day. He’ll also be expected to be far more active at the line of scrimmage than he is accustomed to.
I personally think Cutler would trive. However, you can’t be throwing around franchise QB level signing bonuses until your sure the player can earn it.
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 17, 2009 10:17 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Good points here, PO
I totally see where you’re coming from too.
by super7 on Mar 17, 2009 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry Jones did it with Romo...
I hope that my avatar is a sign of things to come for a verrrrry long time :-)
by ohiobronco on Mar 17, 2009 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly what I was thinking when I posted
I hope that my avatar is a sign of things to come for a verrrrry long time :-)
by ohiobronco on Mar 17, 2009 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly, he’s the only player on the offense outside of Eddie Royal who “earned it” last year.
The lack of success can almost be directly attributable to the abhorrent defensive breakdowns that occur year after year.
Sure, I’m defending or supporting Cutler only on the basis of what I’ve seen on the field. Frankly, I don’t blame him for some of his actions. Yeah, he’s immature and needs to grow up, but I think McDaniels has vastly overreached in his desire to find a system QB rather than mold and shape a Pro Bowler like Cutler into the QB he needs to be.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Mar 17, 2009 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad precedent...
I know he’s the QB, and there are perhaps different rules for them. However, with so many young stars or soon-to-be stars on the offense, what kind of example would caving in and appeasing Jay mean? I agree with the comments above – I’d give him a massive extension to his contract, just not yet. How about after the ’09 season?
by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 17, 2009 10:21 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Great Idea
but I’m sure we’re going to have to give he and Cook some sort of verbal commitment that as long as he plays a par for the course season, that he’s gonna get his.
You know, NYC, do you think that was part of the reason Jay was upset when SHanny left? Do you think he and Bus and SHanny had some sort of verbal agreement that he’s get paid this season?
I agree that it’s a bad precedent, but we don’t have to pay Marshall till after next season b/c of his antics this off season, so that frees up some money for this off season.
by super7 on Mar 17, 2009 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had Cutler and Cook demanded an extension from Shannahan with 3 years remaining, he’d laugh them out of is office. He traded Portis for trying that move. He offered that Ashley Lelie might oughta not let the door him on the ass…
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 17, 2009 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Portis and Lelie weren’t Shanny’s special project kid.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Mar 17, 2009 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like where you are on this NYC and you have great perspective on this stuff, so, if you were the GM, what would you do?
b/c I think I’d start reworking the deal now with the assumption that it could be completed duting the season and get Jay to show up to camp and end the dong n pony show.
I think it’s killing the team to not have him there and no matter what anyone says its a HUUUUGE distraction and with it being the coach’s 1st year, that’s a big deal to me.
The chance that dissention in the ranks will surface is a very high one, especially early in the season.
by super7 on Mar 17, 2009 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Jay not being there slows down our incorporation of the NE offense, but
I wonder what this does for the rest of the team. I think that watching your young QB and his agent try and throw a monkey wrench in the season and seeing your coach have none of it is exactly what you would want in this situation.
We are seeing McD lay down the law, and eventually we will see Cutler abide by not holding out. Whether or not the offense catches on quickly will have a tremendous impact on our season, so there is a very expensive price tag to enforcing the rules on the team’s prince, but I feel it will pay dividends in the long run as we hopefully see the team step in line.
Wouldn’t it be great to make Bus wait a whole season to get his fat new raise too?
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Mar 17, 2009 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that McD has time to get this fixed but...
The team (no matter what they tell the media) backs Cutler.
This is an issue that could fester, and it can only get worse.
I guess I don’t know how else to fix this other than to begin an open discussion on money.
I mean, what do you guys think the chances are that Denver keeps Cutler and DOESN’T do a new contract until next year? I’d assume Bus is playing his McNair card and trying to force contract negotiations or a trade, which could take until June (like w/ McNair), but I can’t imagine that Denver will end up with a trade scenario that is favorable on ANY level, so if that’s the case, would CUtler simply sit out or play?
by super7 on Mar 17, 2009 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't need all this to get a new deal
I don’t think Cutler would have had to play out his rookie contract anyway – I’m sure the Broncos would have given him a new deal before the 2010 season. There’s no way they would have wanted to let him reach the final year of the contract in 2011, making the whole season about whether he’d get an extension or the Franchise tag. I would have expected the Broncos to lock him up no matter who was running the show, whether Shanny or McD/Xanders.
As for the rest of the team, they’re professionals. Do you think they’re going to sulk because Jay is whining? I don’t. I expect Brian Dawkins to bring some big-time leadership. Yes, he’s new. But he’s a leader. Leaders lead. John Lynch didn’t waste much time doing so, and I doubt Dawkins will, either. Listen to/read Eddie Royal’s quotes. Sounds pretty professional, serious and ice-cold to me…
by Douglas A. Lee on Mar 17, 2009 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points, as usual
Maybe the team is already over all this crap, just like we are, and if so then more power to ’em.
by super7 on Mar 17, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post Super
I would pay him if in fact it’s money they’re after. I think that Cutler feels disrespected and I would too! If the owner of my employment came to me and told me I was in their plans then later the Operating manger tells me the same only to find out that they were “entertaining” offers to move on without me I would be angry too. Is he carrying on too much, yes! Hopefully Jay stays put and if takes money to smooth it over so be it. I don’t think Jay created this mess but he isn’t helping heal it either.
"I am not trying to start anything I am just saying that i think if you take Knowshon and draft D later you guys will be hella good next year" ...IamtheGreatest - The smartest Chiefs fan I ever had the priviledge of reading!
"he (Turner) can get perfomance out of a yugo, but that is no reason not to buy a nicer car"....Broncobear
by Steve O' on Mar 17, 2009 10:21 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually think Jay's departure
gives our team the chance to truly develop a defensive and therefore team mindset first. I want our defense to recognize that we can’t succeed without them. When you have a stud QB and an offense that is great to watch, people look at the defense and say, “don’t screw up.” Well, I’m tired of having that kind of defense. I want a defense that not only holds its own, but scares opposing teams. Love Jay’s play on the field, but again, our offense hasn’t been that great to me based on red zone productivity. Yes, the numbers look guady, but we haven’t been a prolific scoring team for quite some time.
Anyway, I think if Jay is dealt, the defense can no longer hide in the shadow of our stud QB/WRs/etc… I think Dawkins and Nolan are infusing the defensive side of the ball with an attitude that will pay dividends sooner than most people think (esp if we draft well).
Beware the wrath of a patient adversary.
John C. Calhoun --
by bcfunk on Mar 17, 2009 10:39 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
i dont see our defense turing into that stud unit as soon as you do
what you’re talking about is top 10 defense. i dont see that happening in the next 2-3 years and I would much rather start winning before that with a high powered offense than wait several season and hope our defense will turn that way.
Yes Cutler is being a huge bitch but hes earned the money in my eyes. PAY THE MAN.
by purplesocks on Mar 17, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Purple
Everyone wants a top 10 defense, you’d be stupid not to want that as a fan. But there’s proof that you can win with a power offense that puts up points, ala 2008 Arizona Cardinals, and have your defense play well when it REALLY matters – in the playoffs. Not saying they are the team we should model after, I’m just saying that it’s possible to win without a great defense.
I hope that my avatar is a sign of things to come for a verrrrry long time :-)
by ohiobronco on Mar 17, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
im a glass half full kind of guy
but what im really getting at is a change in attitude. I want our defense to feel the expectations that we NEED them to perform. That means bringing it every play, causing turn overs, etc etc etc. Just look at Indy, Cardinals or any other high-power offense (excluding the Pats). Their defenses are always suspect because all the attention surrounds the stud QB and what he needs. Again, not saying that style doesn’t work, but I for one want the return of an Orange Crush styled defense.
Beware the wrath of a patient adversary.
John C. Calhoun --
by bcfunk on Mar 17, 2009 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyway, I think if Jay is dealt, the defense can no longer hide in the shadow of our stud QB/WRs/etc.blockquote>
In other words, we’d be the worst team in football.
I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. -Dave Barry
by PosterNutbag on Mar 17, 2009 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
DAMMIT!!!
I always screw up block quotes.
“In other words, we’d be the worst team in football” wasn’t part of the quote.
WHERE"S THE EDIT FUNCTION???
I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. -Dave Barry
by PosterNutbag on Mar 17, 2009 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's okay...
but I disagree that we’d be the worst team in the NFL. There’s no reason we can’t build a top flight defense over the next 1-3 years. As for our offense, it really depends on who gets the job. McD has a system he wants to run and I for one will give him the benefit of the doubt.
Beware the wrath of a patient adversary.
John C. Calhoun --
by bcfunk on Mar 17, 2009 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just think that the QB position is the most important in all of sports, let alone football.
It is virtually impossible to win without a good QB. If it wasn’t for our offense I think we would have won somewhere in the ballpark of 0 to -2 games last year. A great QB is VERY hard to find (ask Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Kansas City, etc, etc,) and you shouldn’t take it for granted when you’ve found one. I don’t want to be back in the position of spending a decade or more trying to find an adequate QB. If I thought we could get a good QB in return then I’d be more optimistic…I just can’t think of any that we’d be likely to get. The best option that I can think of would be Jeff Garcia and he is a journeyman QB with very little upside and a short-term stop gap at best.
I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. -Dave Barry
by PosterNutbag on Mar 17, 2009 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree with this and think that Denver would never get equal return in value for Cutler. When an organization has a Pro Bowl caliber QB, they should build around him and not look for a system QB (which really doesn’t work as well in the NFL as in college.)
Cassel may be the next Tom Brady. Or he could fail miserably in KC. I’m anxious to see, but I still think McDaniels greatly overreached in a quest to get “his kind of guy.”
I’m not happy with Cutler’s persona, but I can’t imagine trading Pro Bowl for Potential at such a valuable position.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Mar 17, 2009 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pay the man...
Fire the agent.
I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. -Dave Barry
by PosterNutbag on Mar 17, 2009 2:43 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
As someone has already said,
1 year a franchise quarterback does not make.
Let Cutler prove himself more before you tie up about ten years and a 150 mill in a petulant player.
Cutler, Marshall, and Scheffler to Detroit for Calvin Johnson, 2009 First Round Pick (20), 2009 Second Round Pick (33), and 2010 First Round Pick (?).
Get it done, McD.
What can you do for a team with 4 picks that early? I'm salivating at the combonations.
by broncodude793 on Mar 17, 2009 2:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
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