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Around SBN: Notre Dame's Turnaround: How Have The Irish Done It?

Maybe Time For Something Different

I was wishing there would be something to read about besides the two You-Know-What stories.  And then I thought - wow - like maybe I could start a different line of thought.  I just hope it doesn't become an "omg what a total ditz she is".

I keep hearing people talking about how we should buy this guy or pick up a Nose Tackle or stuff like that.  And I thought, well, what if it was like going to Albertson's to buy groceries.  So, I started looking at statistics about salaries and positions.  I'm not sure any of this means anything, but some of this stuff was kind of interesting to me.  Because, I guess I would want to know more about the products, and whether I was getting value for my money, which sure doesn't seem to be as much of, or go as far.

I decided I needed to go some place to get the data.  On a USA Today site I found a listing of salaries for all of the players in the NFL.  It seemed pretty current, since it showed lots of guys on our roster who were pretty knew, llike Eddy Royal.  And I was able to get more information on draft positions and stuff on ESPN.  The first thing I decided I would like to know was, if I took all of the players at each position, and divided by 32, and then rounded, what was the average number of positions at each position.  It seems pretty close to what I think the Broncos do:

    CB (6);  DE (5);  DT (4);  K/P (2);  LB (8);  OL (11);  QB (3);  RB (5);  S (4);  TE (3);  WR (7)

I was curious about what the average salary was for each position, since I could get an idea of if I was over or underpaying a member of the team:

    CB (2.1M);  DE (2.4M);  DT (1.9M);  K/P (1.2M);  LB (1.6M);  OL (2.0M);  QB (3.5M);  RB (1.7M);  S (1.5M);  TE (1.5M);  WR (2.1M).

And then I wondered how much the average top-ten were paid at each position, because I really wanted to know if I was going to be overpaying (I don't know if this captures the salaries with the start of this free agency and some of the numbers seem to keep coming up wrong, but I can't make them different):

    CB (9.8M); DE (11.8M);  DT (8.9M);  K/P (2.8M);  LB (7.1M);  OL (11.5M);  QB (13M);  RB (9.1M);  S (6.2M);  TE (5.8M);  WR (11.7M)

These numbers were a lot larger than the average numbers, and I was also curious about what the average round was for the top ten salaries at each position, so I looked them up.  I really should have sorted the 2008 drafties out of the list, and maybe some other time I might do that:

    CB (2.1);  DE (2);  DT (3.4);  K/P (6.2);  LB (1.8);  OL (2.3);  QB (2.8);  RB (2.2);  S (3);  TE (3.2);  WR (1.6)

As a final look, I was curious as to what the going rate was, by position, in the first round of the 2008 Draft:

    CB (4.2M);  DE (4.7M);  DT (4.7M);  K/P (na);  LB (3.4M);  OL (3.9M);  QB (4.0M);  RB (3.3M);  S (3.4M);  TE (3.8M);  WR (9M)

If you got this far, and your eyes aren't glazed over, you are probably saying, so what?  So, here is what I thought I learned from all of this:

    (1)  For average salaries, Quarterbacks were a lot more expensive than any other position, and Kicker / Punters were the least expensive, and it seemed like a pretty smooth line from DE - WR/CB - OL - DT - RB - LB - TE - S.

    (2)  For top-ten salaries, Quarterbacks were at the top and Kicker / Punters were at the bottom.  DE / WR / OL were in a group, CB / RB / DT were in another grouping, and LB / S / TE were in a last group

    (3)  If the top-ten salaries are a basis for deciding worth (and that is decided by how much people are willing to pay), and looking at the round they were drafted in, we better draft for WR / LB in the first round, DE / CB / RB / OL / QB in the second round, and S / TE / DT in the third round.  P / K don't seem to matter

    (4)  So, if #2 is true, then, for starters, we better keep QBs, WR, OL players because they are way expensive.  And we better be ready to pay lots of money for DE's.

    (5)  And, I kind of got the cutting of Dre, since he was a top 10 CB (for pay), and I think Jackson was a top 10 TE (for pay).

 

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 43 comments  |  14 recs  | 

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Total Ditz?

I think not…that was some quality number-crunching! Well done!

The look at average draft round of the “top ten” at each position was interesting, especially with LB and WR being the only positions with an average round below 2nd. That does suggest that LB is one of the easiest positions to forecast, making the picks safe and well-researched…not quite sure what to make of WR (other than teams have reached in the past and paid a LOT of money to do so…hello, Detroit!)

Thanks again!

~Uffdah

by Disco_Stu on Mar 3, 2009 10:21 PM MST reply actions  

The safeness of drafting LBs and WRs in the 1st round was my biggest takeaway

and I wa surprised, as I have heard so many times that WR is a very risky position to draft. Conversely, OLT is usually described as the easiest positon to project. Anyway, thanks for lots of good data.

I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.

by Arctic Bronco on Mar 3, 2009 11:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Nice Post

I feel like a ditz because my head is spinning from the data. Kudos to you.

The only difference between genius and insanity is perception

by Markus2112 on Mar 3, 2009 10:25 PM MST reply actions  

I agree with Markus.

I’m the ditz. You definately should be writing more for MHR.

Gee, I kinda feel like a proud Grampa.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Mar 4, 2009 1:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Very nice

But I shouldnt be surprised Women always tend to be more organized than us men. What I have found surpriseing is the DE positions value it seems like it has turned into more of a skilled position in terms of pay and demand. As far as the Ditz thing Id be called one long before you lol. Nice post Jaysgirl.

by broncosorbust on Mar 3, 2009 10:46 PM MST reply actions  

Great Post!

For a first post that’s some great analysis. And it tends to indicate that we are rebuilding the team an economical way, QB, WR, OL first, through the draft.

One thing you might have missed. In a 3-4, and that’s where we seem to be headed, the DEs are often listed as DTs since that’s the position they came out of college at. Marcus Thomas comes to mind as does Igor Oshansky.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 3, 2009 10:47 PM MST reply actions  

and if you substitute

OLB, usually the big money rush guy for DE, the money figures should all stay relevant.

Great post Jaysgirl!

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 4, 2009 10:25 AM MST up reply actions  

I see your point...

historically even OLBs were paid less than DEs. However, last year when Bal franchised Suggs he appealed their classification of him as an OLB. The abritrator agreed and awarded him the average of the top 5 slaries for DEs so you may be correct in a few years.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 4, 2009 11:50 AM MST up reply actions  

you lost me at USA Today...

but I’m sure it was a great analysis. Based on what everyone else is saying, I’d say you should maybe work in the GM’s office…Sounds like they could use someone with some common sense right about now anyways.

Peyton Hillis in '09.

I just can't wait to see number 20 tearing someones arm out of socket
(ex. John Lynch to Phyllis Rivers in 05)

by Joe Medina on Mar 3, 2009 11:39 PM MST reply actions  

That's great Jay's Girl

I don’t mean to create more work, but while i was reading this, i was expecting your last line to be something like:

This is the average of what the Broncos pay for each position:
xxxxx xxxx xxxx

What are the chances of getting that info? Because that would be interesting to cross check against, you know?

Thanks for this. Very interesting!

Darren Bennett... check
Ben Graham... check
Sav Rocca... check
Now if only we can find an Australian who can run and tackle in the NFL and show these Yanks what we're made of.

by orange&blue_aussie on Mar 3, 2009 11:47 PM MST reply actions  

Hey, your post got promoted!

Not bad for a “total ditz” ;-)

Congratulations.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Mar 4, 2009 10:19 AM MST reply actions  

That's right. The women are smarter.

Not much of a Grateful Dead fan but I always liked that song.

Col. Sandurz: Prepare ship for light speed!
Dark Helmet: No, no, no, light speed is too slow!
Col. Sandurz: Light speed, too slow?!
Dark Helmet: Yes, we're gonna have to go right to . . . ludicrous speed!
Col. Sandurz: Ludicrous speed?! Sir, we've never gone that fast before. I don't know if the ship can take it.
Dark Helmet: What's the matter Colonel Sandurz? Chicken?

by orangeblood on Mar 4, 2009 10:37 AM MST reply actions  

Great post

A lot of thought went into this and speaking as someone who works with quite a few ditz’s you are definately not one of them!

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Mar 4, 2009 10:48 AM MST reply actions  

Great post but I had a hard time reading past the avatar

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"McDaniels must go!" - Broncoman

by Broncoman on Mar 4, 2009 11:00 AM MST reply actions  

+1

If Cutler looked like that, there’s no way we’d consider trading him! LOL

Beware the wrath of a patient adversary.

John C. Calhoun --

by bcfunk on Mar 4, 2009 12:45 PM MST up reply actions  

+100000000

Hell, if Cutler looked AT that, she might actually be Jay’s girl!

Thanks to Mike Shanahan, a great coach who will be dearly missed.

Hillis for starter next year. He wears special thigh pads so his solid brass balls don't give him repeated thigh contusions.

by 53guys on Mar 4, 2009 5:34 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree with that 100% as well

Thanks to Mike Shanahan, a great coach who will be dearly missed.

Hillis for starter next year. He wears special thigh pads so his solid brass balls don't give him repeated thigh contusions.

by 53guys on Mar 4, 2009 5:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Makes it kinda hard to picture Jay accidentally lining up behind guard

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Mar 4, 2009 7:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Knowing Jay

he’d mumble and complain… “I’ve seen better …”

Beware the wrath of a patient adversary.

John C. Calhoun --

by bcfunk on Mar 4, 2009 7:47 PM MST up reply actions  

ROFLMAO.

nice jab!

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Mar 4, 2009 9:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Nice analysis!

I like how you couched it in terms that the non-salary specialists among us can relate to. Great bit of writing, and solid homework. Great job! ^^

"Hey guy worm has turn...We need all kind of crazy fool on defence. Like ten new guy...Just solid guy not souper star break you bank. I turn guy." - Horvil Tiki

by broncosmontana on Mar 4, 2009 11:12 AM MST reply actions  

Actually

Considering that top ten kickers/punters was far less than the other positions, I was thinking it would be most economical to just pick up kickers and punters and let them play those other positions. We could save a lot of money. Kind of like substituting tuna from a can when the recipe calls for top sirloin. :) Obviously I’m kidding. I thought it was interesting. I don’t agree with drafting WRs first…the reason that those other guys are so expensive is because they are the best from the draft class at that position. If we wait for 3rd or 4th round to pick up a DE, we’ll be scraping more toward the bottom of the barrel.

by NDbronco on Mar 4, 2009 3:11 PM MST reply actions  

For a ditz you is plenty much smart

My takeaway is that DTs are hard to project.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Mar 4, 2009 7:11 PM MST reply actions  

thanks guys

You guys are all way nice…i kinda think you are taking it easy on me since im a newbie,,,and i think this group is fab…i just love to read the way smart people on here…hugs and kisses :)

by JaysGirl on Mar 4, 2009 7:30 PM MST reply actions  

Hugs and kisses accepted :)

And I didn’t get to your post until just now. Fantastic numbers-crunching, and in no way ditzy! Awesome job.

I picked the wrong weekend to quit sniffing glue...

by papigrande on Mar 4, 2009 8:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Totally...

It’s a good piece of work, for sure…

Darren Bennett... check
Ben Graham... check
Sav Rocca... check
Now if only we can find an Australian who can run and tackle in the NFL and show these Yanks what we're made of.

by orange&blue_aussie on Mar 4, 2009 8:55 PM MST up reply actions  

The way I see it, nobody's taking it easy on you.

You’re right in saying that there are a lot of smart people writing here. I know I’m in awe of them. But I feel confident in saying you more than carry your weight.

Don’t sell yourself short. You’ve got a brain and it seems to be in top working order. Keep writng.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Mar 5, 2009 9:53 AM MST up reply actions  

Wow.

Great post and rec’d.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Mar 4, 2009 9:42 PM MST reply actions  

JaysGirl?

Really female???

The dude abides.

by KRIBBENS on Mar 4, 2009 10:36 PM MST reply actions  

Better be

I’d hate to think there’s a guy calling himself JaysGirl.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Mar 5, 2009 7:22 AM MST up reply actions  

That would be scary

Like it puts the lotion on it’s skin type of scary

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"McDaniels must go!" - Broncoman

by Broncoman on Mar 5, 2009 12:04 PM MST up reply actions  

I called myself Jays Girl for the first 3 months after he was drafted...

turns out, I am missing some components to be Jay’s Girl.

Peyton Hillis in '09.

Name him---Mr. Balls....or Thunderpussy.

by Joe Medina on Mar 5, 2009 12:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Zappa

can clear up the issue for us. He has a nose for these sorts of things.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 5, 2009 10:09 AM MST up reply actions  

ZING!!!

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Mar 5, 2009 12:26 PM MST up reply actions  

BOOM-SHACKA-LACKA!!!

I picked the wrong weekend to quit sniffing glue...

by papigrande on Mar 5, 2009 1:53 PM MST up reply actions  

That was funny right there

"I am not trying to start anything I am just saying that i think if you take Knowshon and draft D later you guys will be hella good next year" ...IamtheGreatest - The smartest Chiefs fan I ever had the priviledge of reading!

"But I’d trust more of Bobby Turner. Remember – he had to keep his job. His boss made the final decisions, and he knew it. And he can get performance out of a yugo, but that’s no reason not to by a nicer car." ... Broncobear 02/24/2009

by Steve O' on Mar 5, 2009 7:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Great post.

This is one of the most thought out, researched post I’ve ever read on this site. The only thing I would ask you to add would be what percentage of the top ten salaries in any given position were in the top ten in stats for that position. I know this is a huge job, but I think it would be revealing as to which positions are most worth paying in the top 10.

Rec’d

by Papamag on Mar 5, 2009 1:18 AM MST reply actions  

Good point...

I’m not sure who’s good at putting this data in more reader-friendly tables (not knocking the data, just wish it was easier to post tables, etc to make the numbers easier to depict your data comparisons). Does anyone have a link to a SB Nation tutorial on how to do that?

Beware the wrath of a patient adversary.

John C. Calhoun --

by bcfunk on Mar 5, 2009 6:11 AM MST up reply actions  

Looks like paint...

I wonder how the Patriots players rate in this salary comparison/ exercise. Since that’s the way McD learned.

by precisiontint on Mar 5, 2009 10:36 AM MST reply actions  

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