Ironic, in a way.
by Claus Vestergaard on Mar 31, 2009 9:44 PM MDT
44 comments
I was actually planning on making a "Cutler traded for Shaun Rogers and Brady Quinn"-post today. For me, it's april first. Now before you go check, I might as well tell you, that the post on denverbroncos.com is stamped at March 31st.
This blows! McDaniels is on the hot seat. He has now used up all credit he might have had in good will. I refuse to blame this on Cook og Jay. Let's face it, there's maybe 10 guys out there, who can play the position well - on the f'ing PLANET! When you are the employer of such a guy, I don't care how you keep him happy. Just make sure, that you do!
I mean, this is basic general managing and head coaching 101. Pro Bowl quaterbacks under the age of 30 are worth keeping - Is this really rocket science?! This is just a bad, bad call by both McD and Bowlen. When it comes as far as this: If it's McD, that is Jays problem, then McD has to go. There are further between top tier quarterbacks than between top tier coaches. I'm sorry, but that's as simple as it gets. Besides, the situation is so rediculous, the quarterback, at age 25, has more experience than the coach!! This is a fucking no brainer.
I don't know. I'm still clinging on to the April fools-thing...
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I could not agree more
But i’m glad it will not drag on from here. McD has much more to prove much more quickly to all of us now.
by Nitz on Mar 31, 2009 9:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Shanny did a better job of keeping his players happy.
He understood his role was to guide his team to success + bring out the best in his players.
McD developed under Belicheck regime and thus brought the authoritative style with him.
Too many egos involved with this mess from the start.
"according to the map, we've only gone 4 inches"
by MikeD55 on Mar 31, 2009 10:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
That would only work
if the Patriots had been a complete failure over the last 10 years. Let’s compare track records….? Hmmm, looks like no one style is better than the other as far as W/L go.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
by Darin H on Mar 31, 2009 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by being a plyers coach Shanny produced years of mediocrity...
Keeping jay happy…Claus I like your posts, but this is ridiculous. This is a TEAM sport. Jay did not want to be part of the team because his ego could not handle it.
The guys a wanker….any other country in the world he would have been punched in the mouth by one of his team mates by now…or at least of had a good talking to.
NO player is bigger than the team.
COmpare Tom Brady and Jay Cutler…..Brady took a wage hit to help the Pats and stay there…thats class…..Cutler is like summer….NO CLASS…and I am glad he is gone.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Mar 31, 2009 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
THIS
This is on Cutler all the way. He wasn’t taking calls from the OWNER. The guy who writes his paycheck, the guy who MADE Cutler.
He didn’t want to be a part of the team. He obviously couldn’t be the bigger man, got his feelings hurt and flew to Nashville to pout.
I don’t care if that guy can throw the ball a million miles, he doesn’t have the mental capacity to take on the NFL, IMO. He can’t understand that no one is untouchable in the NFL, especially if you’re 17-20 or whatever and no playoff records. This is a business.
I don’t care about the crappy defense argument. If that was true, he should have seen what Josh had done so far in the offseason, saw how he brought in defensive leaders at numerous positions and said, “OK now I’ll show them what I can do with a defense.” He obviously didn’t care about that at all. It’s all about Jay in his world. And the Broncos are better off, believe it or not, that he is gone.
I disagree with the argument that “this will set us back 2-4 years!! RAAAGE!” If you have a QB that isn’t buying into your coach, whomever it is, or your owner then you ARE ALREADY WASTING TIME!
And Bus Cook, you failed miserably. You thought you could strong-arm Bowlen into giving Jay the biggest contract ever, but you got punked by the same guy. Pat Bowlen took control of his team when he fired Shanny, and he took control today when he had enough of what “the player” was doing. The sad thing is Jay was GOING TO GET HIS MONEY! Just not this year. He was going to get a huge contract after his rookie one was finished, provided he continue to play at a high level and progressively get better. If only Jay and Bus had some patience. They shat the bed, and they get to sleep in it.
So so long Jay, I really enjoyed having you a part of this team, but your behavior in the past two months has been as eye-opening as ever. You are far more selfish than I thought you were. I will not root for you. I wish you luck behind a worse O-line, you probably should get the ice bath ready.
And if you show your face in Invesco again….well it could get messy.
You just enraged a city.
by binford04 on Mar 31, 2009 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice Binford...where you been man?
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Mar 31, 2009 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying to stay out of the fray
of this whole situation and waiting to see what happens. Obviously, I couldn’t take it any longer.
by binford04 on Mar 31, 2009 10:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
well...welcome back...sorry its under these circumstances!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Mar 31, 2009 11:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
good points...
"according to the map, we've only gone 4 inches"
by MikeD55 on Mar 31, 2009 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You couldnt have said it any better, seriously, any better you couldnt have said it
“THERE ARE 10 GUYS ON THE F-ING PLANET WHO CAN PLAY THE POSITION WELL” exactly exactly. Freaking 30 something newbie head coach who does he think he is running Cutler out of town. This move has 99% potential of setting back this franchise for at least another 8 years. WOW just wow. All this freaking guy needed to do was build a respectable freaking defense and leave the offense alone. WOW. Now the next problem is that this players, especially the ones in the offense, arent going to play for Mc Daniels
by MauMontaV5 on Mar 31, 2009 10:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Mau...these guys are pros and this will bring the team together!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Mar 31, 2009 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here Here
Problem is that Bowlen can’t or won’t bite the bullet and admit he made a mistake in hiring a 32 year old coach with no discernable personnel skills and thinks this is Madden football. Pride is forcing Pat to burn the ship in order to cover for McDaniels mistakes, this should of never, and I mean never gotten to this point. There is no logical reason to sit there and think Cassel would be a better long term starter than Cutler, and if any coach actually thought that, then that automatically discredits them. I just can’t believe that Bowlen fires Shanahan for what he said is a needed change in direction, and this is the direction he gets, total and utter disfunction and chaos.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Mar 31, 2009 10:32 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Think about it this way yea Cutler is a pro bowler and I hate to see him go but,McD took a QB that had not even started a game sense high school and won 11 games 3 more then our pro bowler.Say what you want the Pats may have a better suport cast then we do but the fact is the last game Cassel started was 8 years ago.I think we’ll be ok at QB without Jay.
by robsey69 on Mar 31, 2009 10:34 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
QB that had not even started a game sense high school and won 11 games
Against the easiest schedule in the league…
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on Mar 31, 2009 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by the way QB rating for Jay 86 QB rating for Cassel 89.4
by robsey69 on Mar 31, 2009 10:37 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
that doesnt mean anything when you have one of the best o-lines in football
and the best- by far- receiving corps. If you add that all cassel did was throw screens to walker and bombs to randy moss (that guy could make me look as a HOF qb) and that he was always on winning situations meaning he wasnt always on come back situations like Jay so didnt have to force passes and therefore throw intercpetions. If you add that he ran a spread offense then who are you kidding, even Graham Harrel looked like a future HOFer
by MauMontaV5 on Mar 31, 2009 10:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
he played against the easiest schedule and defenses that didnt even know what was kidding
thats why Vince Young won the rookie of the year award back then
by MauMontaV5 on Mar 31, 2009 10:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you nuts?
What did Jay play behnd. It was the O Line that gave up the least sacks.
Easiest schedule……thats stupid in itself as the AFC East was one of the best perfromed conferences. You are arguing yourself into a corner man.
You need only read the great post on the front page by the lads to find out the truth of Pats vs Broncos.
Its a great read.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Mar 31, 2009 10:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
AFC East was one of the best perfromed
BECAUSE THEY HAD THE EASIEST SCHEDULE
The east was #1, 2, 3, 4 in opponent defense easiness…
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on Mar 31, 2009 10:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the best o-lines, best receiving corps
We had the best pass-blocking O-line in football and a very good receiving corps, so robsey69’s stats do mean something.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Mar 31, 2009 11:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guys, guys...
Let me introduce to you… Derek Anderson!
He was really great in 2007. He stunk up the place in 2008. There’s little doubt, that his sudden dropoff in performance has a little to do with opponents getting more tape. Actually numbers show, and I can probably dig them up if you guys like me to, that already in the 2007 season, defensive coordinators began figuring him out. This was with the exact same supporting cast throughout. (Some of) Matt Cassels fine performance in 2008 has to be due to two things. 1. In week two his opponent had 3 quarters of playing-ahead-at-Arrowhead worth of tape. And secondly, he, obviously, was guided by an extremely talented coordinator, who probably did a great job of hiding Cassels weaknesses – the 88%-shotgun should be exhibit A.
My point is, sample size matters. Sanchez has a huge asterisk because he only started for one season. That can be converted to the NFL – a part of what you pay, or don’t pay, is for the level of certainty that he’ll produce at around the same level for a length of a contract. Miami picked Jake Long last year, because he was the most secure talent. Parcells was insuring him self, from wasting #1-money. The eksamples are endless.
To close this out, please remember that Cassel stepped right into the best offense EVER (granted, minus Stallworth), while Cutler was scrambling to improve an 8-8 record. And while neither team had much of a running game, New England has been geared towards that for a long time.
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on Apr 1, 2009 12:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also had a togher schedule
AFC North had to play the NFC East, AFC South, and 2nd place teams from the West and East, and they got to play Pittsburgh and Baltimore twice. That can make average QB’s look like crap.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 1, 2009 1:02 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was under the impression
but might be mistaken, that Cleveland’s lineplay wasn’t as good in 2008 as it was in 2007, and that Anderson fell because he’s somewhat like Jay in that he can’t make decisions rapidly and needs time. Jay got that time behind the league’s best pass-blocking unit, Anderson didn’t. But if someone knows otherwise, I’m listening.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Apr 1, 2009 2:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting tidbit about cassel
That one streak where he won games aganist miami and toward the end of the season, 88% of his snaps were out of the shotgun. That doesn’t cut in the NFL. When the Patriots wanted to go deep, it was a play-action pass always because the read is easily defined.
Also, the Patriots’ coaching staff was really good at dictating motions and formations, kind of the way Lebeau shifts his defenses. If you look at the Pittsburgh game, Cassel looked lost. Lebeau confused Cassel insanely.
by madBroncoFan on Mar 31, 2009 10:52 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The point
The 88% statistic can be found here: http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=517999
Also an interesting read on Cassel and how he should be evaluated. Cutler is far better than Cassel
by madBroncoFan on Mar 31, 2009 11:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Embarrasing
This whole fiasco is a complete embarrassment to the city of Denver and the entire Rocky Mountain Region. Patrick Bowlen should FIRE Josh McDaniels immediately and appoint Mike Nolan the head coach. Trading Jay Cutler is going to set this franchise back 10 years.
Josh McDaniels is a complete IDIOT. He was hired to fix the defense and not to meddle with the offense. So, what does he do..he alienates his #1 offensive player who is a bona-fide PRO BOWL quarterback with tremendous upside.
Someone tell me what Pat Bowlen is thinking? My tax payer money payed for that god$%%#@ed stadium now give me a winner or I am going to burn Bowlen’s house down!! I am embarrassed, angry, and completely mortified by the recent turn of events. You have go to be kidding me..we are the laughing stock of the NFL and the national media.
by Broncomaniac41 on Mar 31, 2009 10:59 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Go read the quotes from Chad Jackson...
The DP has them. Seems like him, and many on the team, were sicj and tired of Cutler’s attitude, wanted it done, and are supportung the organization. Any chance Jay knwe he had lost all locker room support?
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Mar 31, 2009 11:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I read the quotes and did not get that impression at all
Jackson seemed like he understood what the situation was and that a trade was the best way to resolve it. But he did not appear to be taking any sides about who was at fault or commenting at all about any of the people actually involved.
by MattR on Mar 31, 2009 11:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boydy
OK, I know you hate Jay, but why would I give a rat’s ass what the F&%$ Chad Jackson has to say about Cutler, the dude was a mid season free agent pickup from guess who, the Pats, he didn’t know Jay Cutler until week eight of last season, could it be that maybe, just maybe, Chad is saying this crap in the desperate attempt to make his coach look good and so he can keep his job. Cause my guess is, if he was cut by the Pats cause he couldn’t figure out McDaniels offense or make relaible catcjes, then he will most likely be cut here unless he is a sicofant to McDaniels like Lonnie Paxton.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 1, 2009 1:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me clarify
In no way am I saying Cassel is better then Jay,the point I was trying to make is this McD took a adverage QB at best and nearly put him in the playoffs.We have a decent O-line they can play with the best of um,young receiver’s,and a young QB that is experienced and probly better then Cassel too.I don’t see a ten year set back for the Broncos.
And lets be honest about the whole pro bowl QB issue,after Brady goes down you have Manning and the rest of the AFC QB it’s a crap shoot who makes the pro bowl.
by robsey69 on Mar 31, 2009 11:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
JOKE
C’mon..this is a complete joke and everyone knows it!
by Broncomaniac41 on Mar 31, 2009 11:24 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
NO WAY!!!
Yes. Claus, i agree with you to a point. These events over the past month have been nothing less than bazarr!!! But i think there are 4 people who need to step up to the plate and take a bow. Bowlen, McDaniels, Cutler, and Cook.I think each of them had a part in making this situation worse than it needed to be. Maybe i’m the kinda of guy who would dig through a ipile of manure to find the horse, but i just don’t see our new coach being an idiot. Have read people saying he has a big ego, he’s arrogant, he is on apower trip. I see an intelligent, rational guy who is focused. He has a philosophy,(TEAM FIRST) He has tunnel vision. (Do what it takes to win.) i still believe we don’t know everything that went down, but i do know that he is our coach and i am going to back him and give him the chance to prove himself. i’m sure he is better at evaluating the talent he needs to make us winners than i am. Over 45 yrs i have a long list of heros (ex-broncos) They earned that right to be on my list. Cutler won’t be one of them!!!
Each week that brings us closer to the ultimate prize,
by Punkin Head on Apr 1, 2009 12:09 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but
Cutler, and especially Cook got what they wanted. They got, what is possibly the biggesst contract ever.
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on Apr 1, 2009 12:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES
McDaniels may have handled things wrong, but Jay never did demonstrate any give. I think he was motivated by more than money.He knew that next contract he would be in for alot more money. I think he made his mind up to leave when mike was fired and he lost his oc mentor. McDaniels stepped into his webb and gave him the excuse he needed. Jay is manipulating this to get some where else.He doesn’t like McDaniels and there is something about Jay that McDaniels feel like Jay may not be what he wants.
Each week that brings us closer to the ultimate prize,
by Punkin Head on Apr 1, 2009 12:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
When did that happen? What contract?
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Apr 1, 2009 2:24 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly I think Dave Krieger nails it pretty well
Here’s a link to the whole thing.
Owner Pat Bowlen, who has come off as McDaniels’ employee rather than the other way around, put the onus on Cutler in his statement Tuesday night, much as McDaniels did last week at the owners’ meetings.
In a certain myopic sense, they’re right. Cutler could have shrugged it all off and returned. But when you’re counting on a 25-year-old player to be the bigger man than your head coach, your organization has the usual dynamic backward. Clearly, Cutler has decided he’ll be better off somewhere else.
by MattR on Apr 1, 2009 12:16 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
YES.
That’s exactly what i mean – the professional writer is just better at english than me.. go figure…
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on Apr 1, 2009 12:22 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other interesting point Krieger makes is
Who’s evaluation of Cutler do you trust more – Mike Shanahan or Josh McDaniels?
by MattR on Apr 1, 2009 12:24 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Again, good point.
Excellent point. And, ahm, where is Xanders in all this?
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on Apr 1, 2009 12:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
To complete the Krieger trifecta
He also reminded me that it would be hypocritical of me to bash Cutler for not wanting to play for Coach McDaniels when the only reason that I became a Broncos fan (living in NY) was that John Elway did not want to play for Coach Frank Kush
by MattR on Apr 1, 2009 1:26 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I disagree
It’s not a matter of expecting Jay to be a bigger man than McDaniels. It’s expecting him to be a man at all. McDaniels has tried to meet him haldway, it seems to me, and Jay has refused to be mollified.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Apr 1, 2009 2:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shoot.
The last ray of hope is gone. Cutler has been taken off the depthchart!
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on Apr 1, 2009 12:24 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
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