A Disturbing Trend

the broncos dont

i dont care if we dont have the best stats, i want W’s, and plus broncos got better swagger.

has been stretched tighter than J P’s hat band. I don’t care if it’s the ‘Raider’ way, if it wins us football games, it’s alright by me. Trying to persaude people to get in the ‘ho-drums’ with ya, is like pullin’ teeth out of a tiger without ‘pcp’. Sorry, can’t go there with ya. One thing for sure though, it sure as heck ain’t going be the ‘Shanny’ way, no mo…GO BRONCOS’09

This is just following the pattern of past regime changes.

Dan Reeves brought us the sucessful Cowboys model.

Mike Shanahan brought us the 49 model.

We are simply following the current sucessful model.

I am loving the new blood. New attitude. And hopeful attitude.

I think it was Marty Shottenheimer who said you can only stay in one place for 10 years because after that the players grow deaf to the same old way.

Good Luck in the Draft……..Pat White in the 2nd!!!!

There seems to be a cockiness in McDaniels, as if he comes from a level that the Broncos only wish they knew. I am not a fan of Belichek (I could never do a La La Land post for a team of his) nor am I pleased with the first few months perception of McDaniels as a person. Comparing him to Kubiak is a great way of comparing night and day—I’m glad you brought it up.

Being a long, long, long time Denver fan I’ve seen a lot of things come and go. I’ve seen a lot of ups, but brother—during the 60’s and early 70’s—I saw a lot more downs. One of those ups, shortly before the ‘true’ glory years began, was Kubiak. The few times he in went in for Elway—and the couple starts—had some of us wondering if we had the right man starting behind center…he was that good. Yet Gary never complained…he knew he was no Elway. With ‘quiet confidence’ he played the back-up QB role to perfection—while, as the years progressed, he absorbed all the knowledge of first Dan Reeves and then Shanny. As you can tell I’m a big fan of Gary Kubiak—Quiet and humble Confidence is something I love also. That is why Gary could move on and be himself—he has the confidence to be who he really is. Let’s hope Josh has this intangible.

Your second point I really shouldn’t comment on because I haven’t seen the interviews—but I would like to talk about Hillis. He reminds me of a smart young farm-boy that chucked the hay two bales at a time because he loved his Dad and knew his Dad was hungry and wanted to get to dinner. That is Peyton Hillis!

Now my thought…

I wouldn’t worry about the Broncos ever becoming the Denver Patriots—it just won’t happen. I have become convinced that no Team has a fan-base quite like ours. The East and Left coast writers that ignore us, when voting for the Hall, have no idea of the magnitude of the passionate fan-base this Team (for whatever reason) has put together. Josh McDaniels will either become a true Denver Bronco—or he will be gone—and the Broncos will move forward. We will never become a Belicheat scandle—our fan-base will not tolerate it. I think Josh is still unsteadied by the Mcjaygate he started and will think long and hard before disturbing us fan-base again.

I really think Josh has made some pretty good moves to bring in a few vets to help our great draft from last year….as well as our pick-ups in this year’s draft.

When the dust settles this is how the regular season will play out:
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Not sure I agree with all of them.

1)I’m a visual learner, so to me it seems logical that the best way to learn a new way of doing something is to spend at least some time watching someone else doing it — whether via game film or in real life.

2)Jordan just spent a year playing for the Patriots and has only had the opportunity to attend 2 Broncos training sessions. What other experiences does he have to use as examples?

3)Having watched the Broncos since the time of Coach Saban, it seems to me that the Broncos identity has been a constantly evolving thing. It’s only been in the Elway/Shanahan era that an specific identity has come to be locked in stone. If you look at the way we’ve talked about our quarterbacks in the last 10 years, it’s alway placed in comparison to Elway. And for 10 years, we haven’t done much beyond the regular season. Maybe it’s time to forge a new identity, but that takes time. In churches, it is said that it takes 7 years to establish a tradition, and Coach McD has been here for what, 4 months?

I also think your interpretation of what Jordan said was unfair — what he stated was that he told his agent his first preference would be to return to New England. That with the signing of Teller, that seemed unlikely, so he told his agent he wanted to come to Denver so he could play for Josh. And yes he did state that it was the next best thing to being in New England, but what player, knowing he’s going to be changing teams, wouldn’t want to go to a system that is virtually identical to the one he’d been playing in?

As for myself, I appreciate the references to the way the Patriots have implemented the system that Coach McD is bringing here, because it gives me a way to understand what it is he’s doing.

As the team gels, and adds its own wrinkles — remember, Coach McD has stated that he plans to work to the strengths of the players on the squad and to keep successful elements such as the blocking/rushing schemes that have been a Bronco trademark — we will see the Broncos develop their own, new and unique identity.

of Mr Bowlen giving a video presentation on Broncos history at the first team meeting after the draft…

“Boys… Welcome to the Broncos. We will commence the coaching shortly. But before we do, I’d like to introduce you to a few favourite ex players of mine… begin video presentation…

“Floyd Little… now Floyd etc etc…
" Steve Atwater… does anyone remember seeing that hit… etc etc…
and so it would go.

What a way to be introduced to the Broncos, huh? Wouldn’t be too many Patriots references after that with all the players knowing what Denver was about.

However I kinda think that it’s natural to bring a culture from your own team to your new team. And normally most fans accept it, but it’s a bit different here. I mean Shanahan going was so unexpected and his culture was so ingrained that it feels wrong to do anything but the Bronco way of the past 14 years. Patriots references will come. But they’ll slowly disappear in time.

Bshrout above makes a good point about allowing time for tradition to establish itself. Lets give it some time, huh?

Frankly, I think as fans, the participants of MHR have earned their Broncos Pride badges. We don’t get paid, but most of us spend a good part of virtually every day being concerned about our team and voicing that concern in positive and constructive ways. And some of our writers are producing work that could easily be published nationally, (forget about the local Denver rag). All because we love and stand by our team.

On the other hand, I think that, with the exception of a number of players whose names all of us know, Bronco pride has yet to be truly earned by many team members and staff. Regardless of who was at fault, the fact that JC didn’t bite, scratch and claw his way to stay on the roster, and the lackluster up and down play over the last few years by so many, all makes me wonder about commitment of many on the team to being a Bronco and having the Bronco pride.

I loved Shanahan, but some coaches and players were falling asleep at the wheel, getting too comfortable, making too much money. What we need now is a return to discipline and winning. Once those come, regardless of the impetus for them, they will most certainly be colored our favorite two colors – make no mistake!

Perhaps I’ll agree. Lately it’s become losing games we should win, winning a few that we have no business being in and generally just a lack of emotion on the field. If McD wants to come in and change that, he has my blessing. 8-8 records might be cool in your books, but I’m tired of it.

What is it about the Patriot way that you find so offensive? Winning? Actually making the playoffs? The HC wearing a hoodie?

I think you need to get over it, man. You’ve been all over McD since this thing started. Like it or not (I know you don’t) he’s our head coach for the foreseeable future. Hopefully you can put your intense dislike for this new ‘cocky’ coach and get behind the team.

Bringing attitude, team work and accounatbility to a team that has become a shell of its former self? Yeah, I will take that.
SOmetimes guys, its not better the devil you know.
Shanahan, his perchant for playing veterans when they were clearly under gunned, and his jobs for the boys mentality and his ineffectual management style had condemend this team to being nothing more than an after thought.
I am stoked we have a 180 degree turn on this with McDaniels.

If some of our fans are really bothered by the Patriots references, I would love to see an explanation of how you can describe the new system, show game films of it so the players can see illustrations of what’s being talked about, create a terminology to use in the playbooks, without referring back to the system that it is coming from.

Or are we supposed to insist that Coach McD, Jordan, Gaffney and others familiar with the system to develop a new set of terms to describe it and allow the players to only see it on the pages of a playbook.

I still believe that the Patriots comments are simply intended to give players and fans a frame of reference for understanding what is happening. I for one appreciate the candor that has been coming out in the interviews. We can not yet talk about “the Bronco Way” because that way is currently changing and has not yet become fully established.

But the good news, IMHO, is that the players that have spoken in the interviews appear to be so excited about what is happening, that I believe that the players and coaches will come together and place their own stamp on “the Patriot Way” much sooner than anyone expects them to and we will see a dynamic, creative, new Broncos system in the fall that will help us win many games for many years to come.

your right i am 27, but people have to let go of the old broncos glory days, and when we had a defense with swagger and toughness. We havent had a decent defense in 4 years, we havent had a top 10 scoring offense again since 2005, guess whats disturbing, San Diego has been in the TOP 5 for scoring in the last 5 years.

I know it must be hard for u to see us change into a new system, but jesus Christ get over it, last year we sucked. We are lucky we werent 6-10, Hocculi call, Gramatica miss, easily could have been loses. We had one of the worst defenses ever and top 10 in turnovers, and at the bottom in in plus/minus take way give away.. The point is if you would rather see Shannahan on the sidelines and Cutler throwing interceptions in the redzone or within our own 20, then my friend, THAT IS DISTURBING.

These guys love McD and praise him, because what he does, works. He doesnt play good offensive football for 5 weeks, like Shanny and then watch as it slowly turns into backyard games. He doesnt just score on his first drive, like how everyone praises shanny for his scripted first 15 plays, what the hell happens after that, because it seems like the most unorganized offense.

Of the Patriots or their coach either.

But, their “way” wins. Consistently, to the highest level.

Our previous “Denver way” hasn’t for 10 years. And as others have pointed out, that “Bronco Way” was just the “Niner Way” imported.

That’s just the fact, like it or not. Me, I like the fact that we’re bringing winning ways back to Denver, regardless of whose “way” it is.

We all knew we were switching systems, and the Patriots get wins, and that’s all that really matters.

That the Broncos (and Shanny) were once the premier football organization in the NFL, and that they’ve been usurped by the Patriots (and Belicheck). I don’t like it, either. Here’s hoping Denver returns to respected (and feared) dominance over the next decade.

While I agree that most coaches will bring in a system that they are familiar with and has worked for them, I think the difference between a great coach and a medicore coach is their ability to adapt a system to the team they have and make it their own. When Shanahan came here, yes he brought a west coast system, but he modified it a great deal to fit Elway, he put in a Shotgun and zone blocking power running that became the model for the rest of the NFL. I think the lack of success for most ex-Belichik guys is that they are copy cats at best and are not inovators. When I see McDaniels wanting to copy everything Belichik does, right down to the stupid hoodie, it concerns me that McDaniels is nothing more than copycat.

I can understand why you feel that way, and I want to thank you for bringing this up for discussion – it’s generated a lot of comments on both sides, and that’s what MHR is all about.

I just wanted to add a perspective. Recently I spent about 6 weeks studying Patriots film to begin to understand what Coach McDaniels might be bringing to the team. A lot of you were kind enough to read the series the nycbroncosfan and I did on Divining the McDaniels Way. I came away from that study with a tremendous respect for the system that they used. The bottom line on it, after watching weeks of film and talking about stats and tendencies with nyc, was that the system was far superior to what we had been reduced to running.

After a few moments of regret, I became willing to see if this young man has what it takes to transform our team back into a winner. That is at the heart of Bowlen’s decision. He came to understand that the blowouts and big game losses that came to permeate the Broncos season could not be permitted to go on, We didn’t just lose when we needed to win. We stopped being competitive. Losing at home to the raiders in a game that could have clinched the division? Oh, no. Dropping our last three, and getting blown out in the final game? That’s not where we want to go.

Do you remember the effective running game that Bates would suddenly stop using? The inability to make the play on 4th and inches? The goal line stands, one after another that ended in Prater kicking a chip shot field goal? That wasn’t Broncos football at all.

Every change is tough. Letting go of the past is hard. That’s true of the last system, and in a way it’s true for McDaniels and Jordan,because they saw a lot of W’s in their last organization. I don’t mind that they want to being that level of competition to our team. Change is hard – but staying mediocre is harder. I’m behind this transition.

where we are still mediocre (and I’m not saying it will be, there are so many unknowns.. everything is speculative at this point), I will be happy to just to see some more forced turnovers from our D! I just want a defense that doesn’t leave me wondering if they know they are allowed to strip the ball or pick a pass every now and then. Remember what it’s like, in tough 4Q game situations, when the D goes in and you think, maybe we’ll get a pick, force a fumble, MAYBE OUR D WILL SCORE?!

Hallelujah if we get that feeling back at some point! =)

Maybe i feel a different message…like…you miss the denver way…always winning the division…always talking about the super bowl and believing we might get there…and having lots of good guys who played super hard…and how lucky we were because we always won close ballgames…omg…we all miss that.

And…it hurts that we arent that team anymore…that Coach Mastermind couldnt find the way to do it…no matter how hard he tried…and the players he brought in were…like…only here for the money and didnt care…and some of the guys he drafted can only think about themselves…none of us miss that denver.

Sooooooo…smile…were gonna fix all that…first…Mr B has put his pride and feelings where his money always was…and jedi take a way huge gamble to leave a team that really does talk about winning everything and means it and everyone believes them…and Dr X left to come to a team in decline…and we have been bringing in free agents that want to be here…and we are going to use an offense that…if Coach Mike were starting out now would have thought up…and we have a defensive coach who loves the game and wants to teach how its played and got over his hurt feelings about loosing an nfl job.

Its gonna be ok…and…maybe not 13-3 this year…but we are gonna try hard enough that the teams who beat us are gonna know they had to bring their best game and they are the ones feeling lucky they won…and we are gonna learn…and next year…its gonna be all right.

I’m not totally pissed that McD is using Pats tape to show how he wants things done. That tape is HIS COACHING STYLE. He has never been a head coach, so his scheme is the Pats scheme. Give it a few games, hell even a few practices and then he will be able to teach using BRONCOS tape. As for Jordan, I dont think that he has been successful anywhere but New England (though Im not really sure, I havent followed his career) so he’s gonna brag. I do think that he needs to get over the Pats and become a BRONCO!

Brought a lot of good discussion.

I really hope that McD knows what he’s doing and is given atleast 2 years to prove it (unless he only wins 1 or 2 game the first year if that happens he should not be fired but executed or alteast sent to cuba or something) But I also hope that after 2 seasons if he turns out to be phillips, Bowlen will replace him and replace him quickly.

I’m getting up – living on the other side of the world. It means I have to wake up at 3:00 a.m. or 5:00 a.m. on a Monday morning to watch a game live. It’s kind of what I was talking about in my original post on Bronco Pride.

I think you have to look at “Bronco Pride” in terms of the pride in being a fan of a team and the pride that the team has. In reality, I think, they are too separate things.

As much as we want to think otherwise, and this is likely true for many of us who live far away as well, we generally “fall into” a team at some early age or at an impressionable time, or because of some special circumstances, and then we decide to be faithful fans. We hope our team wins after that, but if we changed our team because they didn’t win – well, then we wouldn’t be the kind of fan that I think has real “pride.” Our pride as fans comes from our loyalty and our constant concern for and support of our chosen team. And that is why I think all of the MHR people have earned their Bronco Pride badges. Although we may have little influence on what goes on with our team, I think MHR is a site that probably at least some Broncos coaching staff are reading and thinking about.

But even if we will stay loyal fans through thick and thin, we still are desperate for something to be truly excited about – and in Broncoland, we have not had much lately – Travis and his harem and coke, embarrasing blowouts from truly awful teams, underperforming players -

The other side of Bronco Pride is what our players and coach show on and off the field. And maybe this is what we really should refer to as the Bronco Tradition. This is not something written in stone. (Thank god! I well remember all of the early SB losses by the Broncos.) This is something that is forever defining itself. And so far, I am liking what I am seeing with McD. Intelligence and discipline.

Forget about the Patriot influence. By mid-season, it’ll all be Bronco. And win, lose or draw, I’ll be cheering.

i agree, McD needs to bring his own style, which i think he has. People think we will take Qb’s late and lineman early just because thats what New England did.

First off McD had a very limited role in 2000 when they drafted Brady, Yes they got lucky with Cassell, but he was not even OC when they drafted him, so i wouldnt say he was the brains behind it all.

I think he does respect this organization a whole lot, and wants to bring pride back here. Like he said in his first press conference, he is going to do what he knows works. And i agree with him we cant throw money at guys who wont even try and whine all the time. Get vets to come in as leaders and build through the draft, the draft is how you build a franchise, look at Cleveland last year, im expecting something similar from Washington if they trade their picks for Sanchez especially since they only have like 4 right now.

He has a ton of passion and emotion, he brings a lot to the table and loves this sport. Al we can do is sit back and watch it starts with the draft.

I don’t really get this post. So the coach is brining in video of execution he wants our players to learn? Sounds like a good training technique, probably far easier for a player to understand what he expects of them than simple Xs and Os on a chalkboard. I feel that the retainment of our zone blocking scheme and its coaches already signals an element of Bronconess to this team. He is brining over the best parts of NE and the offense he has run and is combining it with the best elements of the Broncos.

The Broncos under Reeves were nothing like the Broncos under Shanahan but I don’t think that the team suffered. It is just change.

the colors.

Other than colors and logos. there’s no difference. I live in Massachusetts and I’ll be the first to tell you that these people love their football. I never felt more diehard fans than I did when I lived in Denver, but people here love their team too. I’ve been told a million times already that McDaniels is going to take Denver all the way. Just like any big change in anything, there will be old schoolers who think the new and young can’t do half of what the old and experienced could. The fact of the matter is the coach that has the know how, and wants it more WILL find a way to utilize his weapons and win football games.

I just wanted to say that I agree that the Lamont Jordan interview bothered me, even before seeing this thread. He talked more about the Patriots and him not being able to play there then Denver and what we’re gonna do. I’m not saying that I hate the Patriot way and what they’re tryna do here, but it just came across as VERY odd to me.

Only Lamont said that the Broncos were Patriot “B” squad. Maybe it is because Lamont (who put up scrub RB numbers) only has some limited skills that McD might find a use for.

Also remember that some of use have called the Texans “Broncos South” for awhile. They seem similar to the Broncos of Mike S. but with a better defense. I do not feel that the “Broncos South” reference should be taken as a slam by the Texans.

I also do not feel the Broncos should be mad if we will be called “Team qualified for the playoffs”.

I haven’t been as disturbed since Bowlen abandon Bronco tradition in favor of the pandemic called the ‘Walsh Way’. I mean, they released freakin’ Mike Pritchard to make way for some gangly, goofy white guy who couldn’t stick anywhere named Ed McCaffrey…said some obscure practice guy named Rod Smith— a DII QB for chrisesakes— had a bigger future than Anthony Miller. What an arrogant idiot that Shannahan guy was….Good thing we won those superbowls or I’d probably be still be steamed.

the new “way” will use shotgun WR sets to stretch the field vertically and horizontally with a check-down QB who will distribute the ball evenly as opposed to our old West Coast system that relied on establishing the run and highly instinctual QB play

none of the previous NE assistants were responsible for coordinating the most effective offense in NFL history, so I’m giving McD the benefit of the doubt

for what it’s worth, I’ve never been big on Jordan and I don’t see him getting many snaps outside the goal line

When Shanahan returned to Denver as HC in ‘95 people said we were becoming the ’49ers East’. As you may recall, Shanahan brought about half of the SF team with him to Denver. I don’t think that team had a problem establishing its own identity and neither will this one.

Also, Belichick has said that he first discovered the 3-4 defense by watching Red Miller’s Orange Crush defense. Therefore, the Pats defensive scheme is inspired by the Broncos. So in a sense we’re just returning back to an earlier version of the Denver Broncos (on defense anyway).

Have you watched the BDawk interview? Here is a guy who spent 11 yrs(?) years in Philly, and he says he will bleed Orange. And with 3 otas his is bleeding a little orange! My take is don’t get to wrapped up in what one so called (himself) player says. Now I WILL listen to a great player(stats based) and what he has to say. Bronco pride still lives and will thrive with our new direction.
GO BRONCOS

In listening to the post-mini-camp interviews, it sounded to me like Coach McD and the players are beginning to develop a sense of “Bronco” pride. I kept hearing references to how excited the atmosphere was, what good teachers the coaches are, how teammates seem to be coming together, the passion — two linemen getting into a verbal argument.

It’s been an exciting ride so far, and I’ve been hearing players speaking out with an enthusiasm and excitement, which has been lacking. We fans are doing the same.

Thanks lovewatchinthegame for starting this wonderful conversation.