FanPost Thoughts & Observations
by Ted Bartlett on Apr 2, 2009 8:35 PM MDT
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PrintI don't write a lot of FanPosts anymore, but I wanted to write one tonight, because I think this situation calls for as much gravitas as this site can muster. Guru wrote a great front page story, speaking for MHR, and he is 100% correct. This will represent my own spin, but the same basic idea. Consider this to be akin to the best practices of political messaging, where if your constituents don't believe you the first time, you simply keep repeating yourself.
1. All this stuff about the Broncos having no leverage was total bunk, and I will share with you that a lot of emails traveled between the MHR staff to that effect yesterday. Every media person who repeated this nonsense is a fool who was trying to sell advertising. Hold them accountable, because they got this one woefully, abysmally wrong.
2. The Broncos won this trade, which is not to say that the Bears lost it. Jay Cutler just became the best QB the Bears have had since Sid Luckman, without even taking a snap for them. He is uniquely well-suited to throw the ball in the windy Chicago winters, with the strong arm that he has. I congratulate the Bears, and I wish Jay Cutler well, personally.
The Broncos won because they got a better package of assets than any team has gotten for any one player in the free agency era. One could argue that the Cowboys did a little better for Herschel Walker, but really, it helps their cause that they maximized the draft picks they got.
The Broncos announced that they'd take no less than 2 #1's for Cutler, and then they got more than that. They did very well here, make no mistake.
3. I don't care whose fault this is, or who is telling the truth. Nobody really knows either way, except for the principals, and it doesn't matter anyway. The bottom line is that the team couldn't tolerate this situation any longer, and that even recently extended to the rest of the players.
For better or worse, the McDaniels/Xanders regime is the Denver Broncos right now. Pro Football Weekly is usually good, but this article is flat-out stupid. The Broncos did not cave to Jay Cutler. The Broncos refused to cave to Jay Cutler. He wanted them to beg him to come back, and give him a new contract, and give him a face-saving out to this whole mess.
The organization correctly determined that caving to Jay Cutler would undermine McDaniels' ability to effectively coach the football team. What do you think Bill Parcells would have done? McDaniels is effectively Parcells' coaching grandson, so don't be surprised, be impressed. It takes a lot of chutzpah to handle a situation like this, and I guarantee that real football people (or anybody who understands conditions necessary to effective leadership) are universally impressed with how McDaniels recovered from his initial rookie mistake. The team knows unequivocally that there are no favorites, and that nothing comes ahead of the program. That is the first step to winning a championship.
4. Kyle Orton improved greatly this past season. These are things I wrote about him, when I had no vested interest in him or his career.
Week 6 - 16. Kyle Orton has really turned into a pretty good QB, and it was a shame the Bears lost when he played so well. Maybe it will make teams think twice about the idiotic squib kick.
Week 5 - 15. In addition to Forte, Kyle Orton, Devin Hester, and Greg Olsen have emerged as legitimate skill position players for the Bears. They are dangerous this season, and I expect them to win the NFC North.
I had the prediction wrong where the Bears would win the division, but that wasn't Orton's fault. He played well all year, and the defense got banged up and faded down the stretch. Interestingly, Orton's record as a starter is 21-12. Chris Simms, for his part, led Tampa Bay to the playoffs in his first year as a starter.
Both of these QBs are good NFL players, and with the talent the Broncos have on offense, and the good offensive scheme, I don't expect a lot of dropoff, whichever player wins the job. I think it's very healthy that there are two good players on the team, to compete for the job.
5. Something very subtle has happened, that I don't think anybody else has noticed it yet. John Elway was finally succeeded, perception-wise, by Jay Cutler. Jay has now been shipped out of town, before he can be considered a pretender to the throne, so this perception will stick.
Jay didn't fill John's shoes, by any means, but he's the second-best QB in Broncos history, and he has been well-regarded enough to put the replacing-John theme to bed. That is a big accomplishment.
Now, the next QB has to replace Jay Cutler, which is a much less daunting task than replacing John Elway. Broncos fans will always love John, but I am personally pretty happy that the Idiot Media has moved past him, at this point.
6. Having 5 of the first 84 picks in the draft means you should be able to land 5 starters. More quality football players are on the way, and I will have in-depth analysis about this in next Monday's ST&NO.
I am proud to be a Broncos fan today, as I have always been, and I am excited for the future. Sunk costs don't matter to the decisions we face today, and I believe that this is the first step to major improvement.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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We have our QB
we need to give Orton at least 1 year to prove himself in 09, if not we can always take McCoy in the draft.
The draft is about Defense, first four picks should be D and even our second third rounder should be D if not a Center. Of ur ten picks our first 4 and 5 of the top 7 should be D and overall 7 players on defense. We draft one center one running back and one reciever.
"My age is getting up there, but that doesn't mean my play has to diminish,"-Brian Dawkins
Great Post!!
I agree 100% with the ideals of this post. McDaniels showed great strength in putting the team before Cutler. He did all he could to bring Cutler back but he would not make Cutler bigger than the organization. I also believe Bowlen may have been the one who finally got fed up as it sounded McD truly wanted to wait on Cutler.
The sky truly is not falling and the Broncos will make this work!! Be patient fellow fans!!! We will persevere!
On To Victory!!!
Outdoing Yourself.
Ted, I’m a fan. Thanks for another great read!
"The mystic chords of fandom, stretching from every trade and signing to every active account and guest all over this broadband, will yet swell the chorus of union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature." ~ Abraham Lincoln-ish
this training camp will be very exciting!
neckbeard and the spleen going at it, it will be intense! i hope jay never sniffs the playoffs the rest of his career. thats what he should get for quitting on the broncos
24-24 doesn't win championships
Great points.
I love it. You’re incredibly right in mentioning they have 2 first rounders this year that will potentially be studs on our fair team.
Peyton Hillis in '09!
It's simple math, the Denver Broncos will succeed in 2009 with the addition of 20, but minus 6.
I'm in.
Go Broncos.
Thanks, Ted.
We don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
5 of the top 84 and 2 1st rounders next year
I find it impossible to think that the Broncos have not come out very well with this deal. They now have the tools to rebuild the franchise and two very good QBs to do it with. Whichever way they go – Orton or Simms – they will win more with those two and the extra pics than they would have with Cutler dividing the team and less pics. Whether they go with defense or offense with the 4 first round pics, having more 1st rounders on the team is a fast way to improve, and I salute them.
And you, Ted, for a balanced, intellectual and well-thought out post.
Hillis in '09
Excellent thoughts TB
The future of our franchise did not dim today. Our ball club is in a remarkable position to build for the next decade while remaining relevant.
"Talking tough is easy when it's other people's evil and you're judging what they do or don't believe. It seems to me you'd have to have a hole you're own to point a finger at somebody else's sheet" -- Mike Cooley
...and that's pretty cool.
"Talking tough is easy when it's other people's evil and you're judging what they do or don't believe. It seems to me you'd have to have a hole you're own to point a finger at somebody else's sheet" -- Mike Cooley
TB,,,great post as usual my friend.....much respect
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
Brilliant analysis
especially point 5 – that Elway’s shadow has finally faded.
Though I’m not sure Cutler was the second best Broncos QB. Looking at Pro Football Reference.com, Broncos career and single-season passing leaders, it’s pretty close between Griese, Plummer, Morton and Cutler for #2. Plummer threw more TDs in a year – 27 in 2004, and had a higher “net yards per attempt” both gross and adjusted. Griese had a rating of 102.9 in 2000. One thing that bothered me about Cutler is when he replaced Plummer in 2006, he lost 3 of 5 games, compared to Jake winning 7 of 11. Cutler was better statistically, but didn’t win.
They also rate Cutler #6 all time for Denver in the career ratings (behind Tripucka).
"Remember, it's only a game."
Actually, the PFR ratings
are done by number of attempts. and Cutler does have slightly the best lifetime “passer rating” just ahead of Frerotte and Brister. Maybe that shows how relevant the statistics are…
"Remember, it's only a game."
Awesome Post!
One quibble. I would still put Craig Morton #2 on the list of the Bronco QBs. His stats were not great, but he played in a very different era and his role was very different. He was essentially to the Broncos turning the corner in 1977 to become the successful franchise they have been over the past thirty years.
I will freely admit my bias as I was in the stands on Dec. 24th 1977 when the Broncos played the Steelers in their very first playoff game. Morton sealed the win the beautiful TD pass to Haven Moses in the 4th quarter.
Again great post!
Keep Moving Forward.
I've got to agree, CO.
Morton had an arm in the same class as Elway and Cutler. And he was one tough SOB. He was the final piece that helped the Broncos finally turn the corner.
But I’ve got to throw a tip of the hat to Charlie Johnson too.
No, Cutler is not the second best quarterback in Bronco history. He was the heir apparent and it sure looked like he was going to be, but he abdicated the thrown before his potential could be realized.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Apr 3, 2009 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions
BTW, thanks Ted.
You put it in perspective.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Apr 3, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions
You are the man ted
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
Plummer # 3
cutler #4, remember Plummer and Shanny had the highest winning percentage in the NFL for awhile—I do not know how he did it though—lol
17-20 vs 21-12
Wow, we should have just traded straight up, Cutler for Orton.
Just kidding! Really nice, balanced post. Well written. Recommended.
This is the worst-case scenario.
I also predicted the Bears would win their division last year.
I shared that with a Chicago friend. She still speaks to me. Great post BTW. Rec’d.
Thanks for the info on Orton. I have always liked him as a QB, but thought that maybe he had gotten a little burned out with a leaky OL and not a lot of support. At first I thought that McD would be trying to draft Sanchez but after reading this and thinking a little about what has just happened I look forward to the competition between Orton and Simms – and any other QB that we pick up. Lots of D on the 1st day and maybe a Center – part of comments already recorded – sorry to be redundant.
This is really exciting! I understand that the Pats had 3 1st round picks when they picked 3 DL. That was a haul. We have the potential to build a team that can have 11+ wins for the next 6-8 years. Obstacle or opportunity – this looks like a huge opportunity!
The Elway piece was very insightful. Never occurred to me. Old ghosts are being put to rest. Time to really move forward!!
Gary Kubiak is 2nd best QB
But other than that great post!
I do hope we don’t do what the idiot talking head panel from NFL.com suggested and trade our two 1st rounders and chase Sanchez. An idiotic move since next years draft will be much better at the QB position and we will have two 1st rounders next year too.
Chris Simms is going to surprise some people and start all 16 games this year. Jeff Fisher tutored him last year. It was Fisher who told Shanahan to draft Cutler. McDaniels knows the QB position and signed Simms for 6mil/2yrs and all anyone is talking about is his spleen. He will make the right decisions with the football.
Hey 27....I agree...
But I dont see it happening.
I see it this way. Broncs have 2 1st round picks. They will go BPA and will not trade up or down. If Raji (who I am a big no on) or Sanchez fell to the 12th, they may go that way, but I dont see them trading up.
Especially when Jedi seems pretty high on Orton and Simms, they are proven, and they still both are pretty yopung with upside…especially Orton. You ahve a cannon if you can throw for 522 yards in a game!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
Kubiak was a great Bronco QB
His individual skills weren’t top notch, but he made great contributions to all aspects of the Broncos success in every capacity he served in. He was a true team player, we were lucky that he was a Bronco for so many years.
I am still waiting to see when the Ghost of Kubiak the OC is put to rest.
I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.
When he is hired as head coach in three years?
Actually I hope not, ‘cause I want both the Broncos and Texans to do well, but if the situation every came about for Gary to come back to Denver I’d smile.
Great post Ted! Rec'd
This article makes some very good points. I’m not so sure about Orton, but I will trust in the Broncos. It will be an interesting season, no doubt.
~Davus.X~
Est. 1967
Bleeding Orange and Blue for 42 years
Newest Resident of La-La-Land! Mike Clark for President!
13-3 BABY!
Thanks Ted...
Recommended. Like the other commenters, I found the point of getting over the Elway hump a very interesting take.
Thanks!
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Apr 3, 2009 12:16 AM MDT reply actions
Great Post!
I especially liked the part about the 5 of the first 84 picks part. We will build through the draft, and with our offense I feel like an average quarterback will be more than adequate. Next year might be a bit rough, but the year after will likely be worth it…
Also, Spleen vs. Neckbeard sounds like some sort of demented college student wrestling match. Not a great sign for our quarterback competition, but overall I’m optimistic for the next few years… Go Broncos!
re: FanPost Thoughts & Observations
I couldn’t have said it better even though I think nothing will match the Cowboys trade involving Walker. They won 3 Superbowls as result of that trade. I don’t think anyone can debate that fact. If this trade nets the same Superbowl victories or more in the next decade then maybe this trade was better.
You’re so right about giving in to Cutler would undermine this new regime and that can’t happen in a team game and have your team be successful. Had we not dealt Cutler, he wouldn’t have had his head in the game without a big contract extension and a total forfeit of power from the management and coaches to him. We would have gone nowhere in that situation.
Great post. You said it all…
JG
I think this is the best outcome that we could have expected
We were not going to get a veteran of equal or greater talent plus great picks. I m now of course concerned over the ability of McXanders to evaluate talent and bring the value to those picks. I am however satisfied so far and we will not have to wait very long to see what our team will start looking like.
I still think some one ought to hop on the phone and get the snake back for a season.
just putting it out there…
good post, except the Plummer thing
Other than the Plummer angle, you pretty much summed up my thoughts.
I don’t feel like we got robbed in this deal, and I feel we got the closest thing to fair value we could. The mostly made the best of a bad situation.
But everything will hinge on what Xanders and McBushleague actually do with the picks.
in all fairness, can we please stop referring to chris simms as "the spleen"
unless we going to start calling cutler the “diabetic”
a lot of guys really love that name for him
I think it will stick, at least for awhile. Personally, it doesn’t really roll off the tongue, but it is ceratinly unique, and I always know who they are talkinga bout…
Also, thanks for getting a Special Edition of ST&NO out on a tight schedule, Ted, always enjoyable!
Amnesty, the idea that you can forgive transgressions against you, gives as much to one side, as it does the other. It has the noble quality of bestowing mercy to both parties.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 3, 2009 3:33 AM MDT up reply actions
"in all fairness, can we please stop referring to chris simms as "the spleen" "
Yes, please stop. How would you like to be referred to as a body part? His name is Simms, which is actually easier to type that “the spleen”
Growing older is not for sissies. Jack Palance
Wasn't that the flatulant "super hero" character from _Mystery Men_.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Apr 3, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Great post Ted! Rec!!!
I would like to try, at least, to stay away from bus’s clients if at all possible from here on out! Probably not as feasible as I’d like,… but??? Rant over! I’ve been wondering if we could maybe trade out of #12 for a player that could help us now & a pick in a later round? I keep hearing so many of you guys saying that the best picks (for us) are in the second half of the first & in the second rounds. McD has indicated that he has a “win now mentality” & we may have some more surprises in front of us!?! MSM are such idiots!!! Lastly for now, I don’t think many in the MSM give us a chance of winning this year, which I like just fine! Now we can sneak up on ‘em & go 13 -3 BABY!!! In what is still probably my favorite quote EVER “alright Guys, we got ’em right where we want ’em” GO BRONCOS!!! And thanks again folks, you’ve helped me maintain sanity!!!
Great post!
I am ho-hum about our 2 QB’s, but I think we have 2 better than average QB’s. I’m not sure on Simms though since he hasn’t played in 2 years. I don’t really remember how good or bad he was. Whoever wins the starting job I think will have the other breathing down their neck. That will be good not only for competition, but it should provide for a good back-up QB that won’t present a big drop off in production. I’m guessing it’s Orton’s job to lose.
I thought about if the Broncos would trade up to get Dirty Sanchez, but I don’t see it happening. I think McD’s looking forward to working with the guys he has on O and rebuilding the D.
Do not trade Jay Cutler!!!
Ted is 100% correct (and rec'd)
When the silliness dies down a bit, Guru will schedule a story I’ve written about Denver winning this trade.
I don’t even buy into Ted’s assertion that Orton may be better than people think, and I STILL believe that Denver won big. (Though Orton IS 15-2 in home games and 21-12 overall with woeful receivers). I look at Orton as just a roster filler. If Orton even has half of the potential that Ted gives him, we are even better off than my story will reflect.
The picks are tremendous, and Denver fans will soon awaken from the funk to see that they….
wait for it….
wait for it….
…are even better off than before the trade happened. That’s right; I went there. I would have taken this trade before Shanahan was even fired.
Take it from the two Xs and Os guys on the staff. Denver fans should be praising the heavens for what just happened.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
I think fans who don't know how to evaluate QBs
don’t realize how far Cutler’s game needs to improve before he will actually be an elite QB. He has great tools but he is barely playing about a college QB level is his situational awareness, his reads (especially against zones) and his patience to work through his progressions.
Based on what we’ve seen over the past 6 weeks I have doubts that he is humble enough to progress much farther as a QB.
hmm
Can you send the article to me? =)
I have been doing a bunch of research although I haven’t written anything as of yet
+1
I could see exactly where Cutler was going to throw the ball sitting in the third deck, almost every time. He can’t look off a safety to save his life, and he would rather force a pass than check down.
The tendency
to stare down a receiver drove me crazy! I think it nearly negated the strength of his arm. Hoosierteacher said it well. Good comment lolcopter. Thanks
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
Nice post
But I think we really have to be wary of saying we got the better deal here, really matters what we do with the picks, it can work out (like Dallas and Wlaker) or it can be a waste (like the Redskins when they got New Orleans draft for Ricky Williams), Baltimore didn’t get any better sending Elway to us. The other factor we have going is that neither Xanders or McDaniels has run a draft, I would be feeling much better at this point if the goodmans were still here, their record has shown they have a fairly good eye for talent. I will cross my fingers.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
QB evaluations
like…maybe an MHR brianiac could repost the QB evaluation thingie…and kinda compare Chris and Kyle and Jay and the college 09 and college 10 QBs…that would be totally awesome…thanks
And i am totally upset with HIM...omg...i could just slap His face off...i shouldnt feel this way but...wow...like i just feel like i should go get my hair done and put on that special dress and stilleto heels and show Him what Hes gonna miss...cuz Hes never touching this again!!!!!!!!!!
I am going to be doing some evaluation...
in my Shallow Thoughts & Nearsighted Observations post, which runs on Monday mornings. I hope you check it out.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
You all might kill me but ...
At this point, right now? Ranking the Denver qb’s … Kubs is #2 in my heart but I really think Plummer was the 2nd best QB we’ve had. Don’t forget that guys record, his attitude towards the game and his teammates … he threw a lot of picks (so did J) he made some dumb choices (so did J … ok well, he didn’t have the left handed pass thing, but will anyone ever forget the “fumble” that the air caused? Gotta love Hercules!) But he was a VERY talented quarterback with a VERY unique set of skills. Any way, Plummer did more with less in my opinion. Just wanted to put that out there … be gentle :)
I would rank Jake 3rd personally, so I respect your position...
Kubiak isn’t even in the conversation for me, though. Even in the rare occasions when he played, he wasn’t particularly good. In his career, he threw for 1920 yards, 14 TDs, and 16 INTs. He was a good team guy, and an ideal backup for John Elway, but he was NOT the second best QB in team history.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
No killin' here
Even though they don’t have the stats, Craig Morton and Charley Johnson were pretty fair quarterbacks. The former led us to our first Superbowl and the latter led us from the bottom of the NFL to respectability.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
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