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Denver Broncos Mini-camp Wrapup

According to the daily edition of The Sporting News, the QB battle at the Broncos mini-camp is in full swing. Mike McCoy and head coach Josh McDaniels were watching the QBs like a couple of hawks, and giving them a constant stream of information.

Orton, currently considered the front-runner in the race, said, "We run an up-tempo mini camp, a lot of teaching going on. Coach McDaniels and Coach McCoy are very good teachers. They've had a lot of success coaching quarterbacks in this league. I know Chris and I are trying to be like a sponge, and absorb everything they're giving us."

In just a few sentences, Orton showed why he's given the Broncos' fans a lot to look forward to. He showed his respect for the team and coaches, his own coachability and his solidarity with Simms, his erstwhile competitor. TSN says that other than Orton having more arm strength, the battle looks even and both QBs look good.

Meanwhile, DenverBroncos.com has added coverage:

Coach McDaniels has certainly taken a hands-on approach for the first three practices. Not only has he rotated from position group to position group, he's also gotten involved in some of the drills. He lined up as a defensive back to make sure the receivers were running crisp routes, and even tried to slap the ball away from running backs to stress ball control as they finished up a drill.

 

"It was great," McDaniels said. "You could see the energy that's out here - the players are practicing hard, the coaches are coaching hard and everybody has the same goal in mind, which is to get better every day. We're going to pay the price right now to try to win in September."

"He's had some good offenses over the last few years in New England, and you don't get that way by just sitting back in your chair and watching TV," Chris Simms said. "I think he's a pretty hands-on guy."

Orton and Simms split the repetitions evenly throughout Sunday's practice, and afterward the two were asked separately how to describe the process of learning McDaniels' offensive system.

"Whatever you put into it is what you get out," Orton said. "There are plenty of teams implementing new systems and plenty of quarterbacks that have to learn new systems, so it's nothing overly challenging. Just come in and put the work in - it's not rocket science."

Simms agreed that it might not be rocket science, but he had another metaphor ready.

"It's a new language," he said. "Any time you're learning a new language things are going to be hard, just trying to get everybody on the same page. There are some new routes for receivers that they haven't run before, and there are routes that I haven't thrown before, so it's a matter of us all getting on the same page."

New routes for the QBs and the receivers? Sounds like it's going to be fun to watch! Take a look here  for a great photo gallery on the mini-camp, which was moved indoors due to the recent snowstorm in Denver. By the way, interested in the battle at linebacker? Word is that they have Wesley Woodyard taking snaps at ILB - he says that it's not much different from what he did last year. Inside or out, you have to fly around and make tackles.

A few new faces took some snaps with the linebackers during 7-on-7 drills as well, including Elvis Dumervil and Tim Crowder.

"It was kind of shocking at first, but to see (Dumervil) drop out of there, him and Tim Crowder, to be able to drop back, they look like linebackers out there like they've been doing it for years," Woodyard said. "So it's been a pretty good fit for those guys."

 

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#2?

Chris Simms looks like a little kid playing dress-up. I’m sorry, but he just doesn’t look like a starting QB.

J

by Jezru on Apr 20, 2009 11:40 AM MDT reply actions  

Guys....

…That’s how a player looks when he doesn’t have his shoulder pads on. The head looks bigger in proportion.

C’mon now…

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Apr 20, 2009 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

yea maybe

But Ortons helment looked fine

by gnarlybroncodude on Apr 20, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

You know who’s helmet always looks weird on him? Peyton Manning.

by Kfustud on Apr 20, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry....

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… It just doesn’t seem right that a Simms is a Bronco…. Ever since that Superbowl, I’ve been anti-Simms…. I mean who among us didn’t put a curse on Phil and all that were close to him…. Show of hands?

J

by Jezru on Apr 20, 2009 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

Go Buffs

I just wonder if Phil will be nicer in the broadcast booth towards the Broncos with his son on the team.

I also find it odd having Chris Simms as a Bronco because I used to heckle him in the Big XII and was thankful that he played against my Buffs when they beat Texas. (If Texas had started Applewhite they would have gone for a national title).

by Kfustud on Apr 20, 2009 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

Phil Simms *and* Doug Williams

Both had career days against the Broncos in the Super Bowl. I’ll never forgive either of them.

Montana gets a bye, since he was pretty good in a lot of other games also.

by Leukadian on Apr 22, 2009 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Nice to hear

about Woodyard I think he will be awesome. No mention of Moss yet, I’m starting to wonder who will be the odd man out between elvis, moss, crowder etc…

Thanks for the update.

"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak "

Ted Nugent

by Idaho Nate on Apr 20, 2009 11:55 AM MDT reply actions  

here is what I like from Woodyard

from DB.com

Wesley Woodyard said he’s been taking some repetitions at inside linebacker when the team runs a 3-4. He said it’s not much different from the role he played last season — "just flying around, making plays," he said. It seems to be working out so far — during 7-on-7 drills he read a route the whole way, jumped it and returned an interception to the endzone, which resulted in plenty of shouting from the defensive sideline.

by gnarlybroncodude on Apr 20, 2009 11:59 AM MDT reply actions  

Does anybody know who threw the pass??

It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09

by firstfan on Apr 20, 2009 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

AP article doesn't match with TSN info

From AP article.

McDaniels, who tutored Tom Brady and Matt Cassel in New England before replacing Mike Shanahan in Denver, has declared his quarterback competition wide open. While it would appear Orton is the front-runner, it was clear Sunday that Simms has the stronger arm.

Which do you think has the stronger arm. No, Jay and Elway aren’t part of the question.

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on Apr 20, 2009 12:15 PM MDT reply actions  

That's a good laugh

Who has the better arm? Might depend on who you read. I wonder if either service was there…I can’t say, on Simms. There’s little film of him left – the big move to available video was after 2006. But I can say this – Orton has always had a good arm. Some of his long throw look like a ruptured duck, but others have great touch, depending on what throw he’s asked to make. But his arm strength is good, dating all the way back to high school.

Simms might be as strong. My knock on him, although I’m open to how he’ll do this year, is that in the past he’s been very inconsistent, ever since HS. That wouldn’t playin McD’s offense. If he can overcome that, he could be interesting. I’m sorry not to have a better answer, but at the same time – arm strength isn’t as big an issue to the NE offense, although they like it. They are huge on consistency and accuracy, and making the reads is a huge part of it.

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 20, 2009 12:26 PM MDT reply actions  

I love the photos

good to see another squad of Broncos hit the field together. They are looking good. Personally, I would love to have a QB with number two, but let the best QB win.

Is that Spencer Larsen “stretching with the LBs”? Any word on whether he has a split role again this year?

Good to hear that WW returned an INT, but you never like to hear about your QBs throwing them. It’s not often that a LB has the speed to do that. Speaking of LB speed, does Crowder really have a chance at OLB? As far as 3-4’s go, it seems like the DE’s are usually either hulking brutes like the NT, or a little smaller and more mobile but still able to hold up the line. I pictured Crowder maybe falling into that category, but I really can’t picture him coming of the edge as a LB like I can with Moss and Dumervil. Thoughts?

by poorboywilly on Apr 20, 2009 12:33 PM MDT reply actions  

Crowder at LB was definitely the most surprising tidbit.

And as remarked above, might not be good news for Jarvis.

by jaffe28 on Apr 20, 2009 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Agree

At this point, tho, I’m just hoping for one of them to contribute, that’s how low my expectations have gotten for the pair.

Sad.

This is what we wanted...
Hey, look what we got!

by pubkeeper on Apr 20, 2009 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

+1

I wonder if we might be seeing any draft-day trades involving any of those guys. Josh has certainly had a chance to evaluate them in person over the past few days, and if he feels they’re not right for the system I could see them traded to a 4-3 team. Not sure we’d get much for them, but you never know.

I like them, just wish they were clear-cut contributors, as you mentioned.

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on Apr 20, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the report Bear!

Sounds like mini camp is going very well.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Apr 20, 2009 12:42 PM MDT reply actions  

Like the idea of Woodyard being inside

He’s a playmaker. That’s who you want in the middle. Maybe he’s what we’ve been missing since Al went down.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Apr 20, 2009 12:54 PM MDT reply actions  

Love how he laid the timber last year

My only hope is that WW will play within himself and not let his passion lead to over pursuit and missed assignments. Not that that’s been a problem for him, but we’ve seen from guys like Nate Webster how a fevered pitch can sometimes lead to overaggressive behavior.

But coming off an impressive rookie effort, I do like the potential he’s showing us both as a player and a teammate.

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on Apr 20, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I really want to see Woodyard starting when Denver plays Cincy.

But, whoever gets the starting job, earned it.

"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".

"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.

by broncoholic on Apr 20, 2009 1:15 PM MDT reply actions  

Who's presumably in the competition at ILB right now?

Woodyard
DJ Williams (is he moving back inside?)
Bailey (inside?)
Davis
Larsen

Who else?

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Apr 20, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

And while we're at it...

Who’s competing at OLB?

Moss
Doom
Crowder
Bailey (?)
Williams (?)

Who am I missing?

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Apr 20, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

A few

Oddly, we still have Louis Green, the perennial afterthought. Mario Haggan might be very good at ILB – powerful, good instincts, lousy straight line speed. Darrell Reid is listed as LB/DT – He’s 288, and can do several things, although I’ve read (only) that it’s his special teams skills that will carry the day for his roster spot (Nolan know things that we don’t).

That means that at DL we have Matthias Askew, DT 6’5, 302. Nic Clemons, DL 6’6 300 and Tim Crowder, DE 6’4 275. Ron Fields, NT 6’2 315, Ryan McBean DE at 6’5 290. Jarvis Moss DE.OLB 6’6 265 (up 10 lb.). J’Vonne Parker at 6’4 and 325 is usually forgotten, but he’s a serviceable possibility at NT. Kenny Petersen DL at 6’4 300, Carlton Powell at 6’3 300 is a probable 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT but an unlikely NT. Darrell Reid again, Marcus Thomas at 6’3, 305, rounds out the schedule.

If you look at the above list, it’s obvious that we’re looking at quality upgrades in the draft. We have a lot of talent – how good it is still remains to be seen, but a real-deal defensive scheme will help. We have a couple of NTs,several DTs, 3-4 DE’s, 4-3 DEs and lost of LBs in both ILB and OLB molds. Despite people’s fears, we have plenty of decent players. We need players who make an impact, and the scheme to make use of them.

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 20, 2009 4:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hey Doc....

Look for the team to give Darryl Reid an Adallius Thomas type role (elephant?). With his strength, power and speed I am thinking they will line him up all over the field and let the mayhem unfold.
He was always a better fit in a 3-4 in my opinion, and Nolan and McD were pretty quick to pick him up.
He could be a beast for us and one of our best FA pick ups for us.

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????

by boydy2669 on Apr 20, 2009 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

Might well be

That’s a basic advantage of the 3-4, especially in this timeframe. Seems like it’s getting easier to find OLB/DEs right now, elephant or predator or Jack or whatever you like. There are advantages of the 4-3, too, but it seems that it’s been easier to staff the 3-4 or late – except for the NT. I’m very interested to see if Parker and Fields can ‘hold up’ to the job.

I note that moss said that he played in coverage in college and liked it. That was 3 years ago, and there are, what 4 more 3-4 teams now, and a few more under/over hybrids? (I remain open to what specifics we will run, and no one knows. They will play their cards tight until after the draft, and even then….). Back to Moss – if you considered him as a 255 OLB, he suddenly becomes more interesting. I think that a lot of his problems with the run were either playing out of position (he’s no match for a RT) or his health issues. This is the first year that he’s been back to full health – I’m neither a fan nor a detractor, but I look forward to seeing what he can do.

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 20, 2009 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree....

I knew nothing a couple of years ago, and hindsight being 20/20 and all that, why did we EVER draft Moss as a DE for a 4-3. Was not he a better fit initially for a 3-4 OLB. I remember reading some of the draft profiles on him and many said that would be his best fir, and would be a beast there.
Lets hope now, as I think the kid is talented and could prosper there for us!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????

by boydy2669 on Apr 20, 2009 4:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

I keep saying...

we’re not going to run a 3-4; its gonna be a 5-2. 3DTs, 2 hybrid DE/LB and 2-ILB.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 20, 2009 5:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Is that like Arizona was running?

Will that help Jarvis Moss?
Thanks SWG!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????

by boydy2669 on Apr 20, 2009 5:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Sometimes...

that’s the nature of a hybrid. Actually it’s closer to what the Ravens ran last year with Suggs and Johnson as DE/LBs.

Really it’s all semantics but I think it’s easier to explain what they appear to be doing if we think of there being 3 positions: ILB, DT, DE/LB. Rather than try and find a true NT I think they will just park three 300#ers between the tackles. Also we will likely see a lot of different front: 5-2, 3-4, 4-3, even something like a 3-1/2-3-1/2.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 20, 2009 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

Question for you bear

I think we all pretty much came to realize last year that in a 4-3 one really dominant DT can make the other DT very good also. My question is can two very good DE in a 3-4 make a marginal NT at least average? I am going against sentimant on the site right now, but I am pretty high on our DE. If Powell heals and develops as expected and Thomas finally lives up to his potential we could be strong there. Clemons was one of the most underrated players in camp last year and Kenny Peterson played well. Could they be strong enough to elevate the performance of Fields/Parker? Frame this with the likelihood that our linebacking corps goes from being a liability to an asset, can it all add up to an average to slightly above average front seven? HT could wade in on answering this as well. Also, SWG and boydy make good points about a defense that focuses on the talent of the players we have rather than trying to fit into a standard NFL mode. This seems to fit the McDaniels/Nolan philosophy. We could really capitalize on the athleticism of DOOM and Crowder and DJ and Woodyard and Larsen. We could give opponents a totally different set of possibiliters to deal with each week. This is a really interesting discussion bear and I thank you for another great post and for the comments by all. Damn bear, you are good.

It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09

by firstfan on Apr 20, 2009 10:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

HT covered this once

Let me see if I can translate, and please – anyone who finds that, post, please paste it here. HT seemed to feel that it’s a lot easier for a dominant NT to make the other two better than for the DEs to make the NT better. But let’s not get too ahead of ourselves.

We have two NTs. I know that’s a shock to a lot of folks, and it hasn’t gotten a lick of press. Lindsey at the DP even wrote a post in the past couple of days about how we need one. I’d be thrilled with a great one, but most of them are grown in-house and take a few years to develop

So, are we out of luck? Perhaps not. Fields has been developing under Nolan for a couple or three years and Nolan brought him from SF as his first FA acquisition. Additionally, we have the biggest player on the team, J’Vonne Parker at 325 lb. What do we know of them? Very little, really. But that’s not unusual. We do know that Fields had the fastest explosion of any of the SF DL, and that’s a big key to the NT position. He’s done some work at NT and also played DE while developing so he knows that role as well.

What we know is that we don’t have a dominant NT that has played the position extensively. Either player could be very good at the position (or not), but they are our current choices and both were brought in to play this formation (SWG is probably right regarding the 5-2 and I’ve mentioned that myself). I have hopes that Nolan and Josh know what they’re doing.

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 20, 2009 11:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

No need for me to jump in.

The bear has become a master, and I agree with his take.

I agree that a NT is crucial, and excellent DEs can only do so much If the NT isn’t solid. I also agree that we do have two existing NTs, and that there is hope until we grow one in-house.

Throw that animal a salmon!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Apr 21, 2009 4:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

Ha! Good one HT

Thanks for the replys and information guys. I am pretty darn optimistic right now. If our D Line can even be average I think we have a much better total defense this year. I am anxious for training camp!

It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09

by firstfan on Apr 21, 2009 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm almost always an optimist this time of the year.

But I think I can be realistic too. I’m not excited about the record (I don’t expect it to be great). But I see us with a better team (albeit a rough schedule), and the only thing between us and a playoff shot might be that SD had a couple of easier games.

I’ll be watching Den vs SD games this year with even more interest than before.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Apr 21, 2009 7:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks Bear!

That list of DL is awfully underwhelming in my mind.

I think we desperately need to upgrade that position.

Seems to me that LB is comparatively a much less pressing need.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Apr 20, 2009 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree.

Interesting, though -

NT – Fields, Parker

RDE Thomas, Petersen (who played well there last year)
LDE Powell Askew Clemons

We can use some help, but it’s a good start. This thing was well past being fixed in one offseason.

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 20, 2009 4:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

Man I'm getting excited!!!!!!!!!!

.
.

Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.

by Mike Clark on Apr 20, 2009 3:12 PM MDT reply actions  

Not only that, today is our first day in the 70's up here in Spokane.......And its' sunny!!!!

Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.

by Mike Clark on Apr 20, 2009 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

ME------TOO MIKE

     13-3

GO BRONCOS

Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM

by UB3 on Apr 20, 2009 3:18 PM MDT reply actions  

Still got a looooooong way to go guys.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Apr 20, 2009 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

Poster--I think we are a lot closer to being an elite team than many think--maybe its just me...

Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.

by Mike Clark on Apr 20, 2009 4:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree...100% agree Mike Clark...but we often agree!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????

by boydy2669 on Apr 20, 2009 4:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

Me too Mike.

I was refering to the time until the season starts rather than how far we are from being an ‘elite’ team.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Apr 20, 2009 5:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

Veyr Good Poster!!

Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.

by Mike Clark on Apr 20, 2009 5:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

off topic:

For the second week in a row I watched the NFLN’s replay of a Bears game from the past season and for the second week in a row Orton was outstanding (vs Vikings). I don’t see any problem at all with arm stregnth; as a matter of fact, the announcers were raving about his arm strength and his ability to throw ‘darts’. Lovie Smith raved about him after the game saying that they ‘expect huge things from Orton and Orton continues to deliver’ (paraphrased). I am really starting to get excited about what Orton will be able to do with the Broncos.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Apr 20, 2009 3:34 PM MDT reply actions  

Nice post Doc...

We must have thought a like.
Thanks for the information from Sporting News as well.
Peace,
Boydy.

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????

by boydy2669 on Apr 20, 2009 3:50 PM MDT reply actions  

if the qb competition loos even between orton and simms...

we are in store for a long 2009 season. Jeez……. my fingers are crossed for a miracle.

by LVElephant on Apr 20, 2009 4:39 PM MDT reply actions  

I'll assume 'looks even'

Well, opinions vary. Just for the heck of it, though – read this and tell me what you think

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 20, 2009 4:47 PM MDT reply actions  

Can't wait for the draft.

I know our first 2 picks our gonna be on the Defensive side. Seems to me McDaniels is happy with what we have on Offense.

by Broncorm on Apr 20, 2009 8:26 PM MDT reply actions  

it's just a matter of tweaking them around

to get the most bang for your buck on every down.

"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall

by Joe Medina on Apr 21, 2009 12:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hi Mr. Bear

I read your analysis on Fields a while back but I know nothing about Parker. I’m not crazy about Raji but do you think this is really the player McD wants and the Sanchez, Moreno, Quinn talk is just predraft smoke? Does anybody really give any credence to Klis? What about Taylor the bowling ball from Michigan?

by St. James Bronc on Apr 21, 2009 11:31 PM MDT reply actions  

Hi, SJB

Raji – if he’s there, i suspect that we’d take that chance – despite some of that talk, the fact is that he’s a heck of a player. I don’t buy Quinn or Sanchez, but I’m used to being wrong. Often wrong, never uncertain….Klis can be peculiar – did you see the article I wrote about emailing him? Funny….

As far as Terence Taylor – wow. He also seems t have issues with personal discipline and not taking plays off, but he’s incredibly strong, a champion wrestler and a power lifter. If he can decide to focus on football he has to tools to be something great.

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 22, 2009 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

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