MHR University - 2009 Draft Picks (1st two rounds) - Bronco Brilliance!
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 8:31 PM MDT
in 2009 NFL Draft
317 comments
"The Chess Game that McDaniels and Manager X Just Pulled Off"
Denver fans were surprised that Denver took a RB with their first pick (though many, including some staff, really wanted this guy).
Many fans were surprised that we took a certain DE with the 18th overall pick.
Shock hit the community with Denver's trade of a first pick in '10 for a CB that some fans hadn't heard of.
McBath? Who?
What was Denver thinking? They out-thought the fan base (myself included), and confused the "experts" (except, perhaps, for a particular NFLN expert who seemed to love Denver's picks).
What gives!?!?!?!?!
I'll tell you. Hang on tight.....
More below the fold
I wrote this comment under a fanpost before the draft even started -
People forget the natural progression of draft day.
1) The team likley makes several picks that few people saw coming.
2) Fans are flabbergasted!
3) On further reflection (about 3 or 4 days after the draft) folks research the new players, and find that they were great picks all along.
4) When camp rolls around, reports on the rookies are steller (for the most part).
5) Everyone now thinks the draft went great.
One thing to keep in mind: for all of the sleep we have all lost trying to mock and analyze the draft, the pros in the war room have done several hundred more times worth of effort and research. I’m prepared to give my opinions tomorrow, but in the context that I trust the coaching / management staff to know more about what’s going on behind closed doors than I do.
When I coached at the HS level, locals sometimes questioned a decision we made as a staff. We had the advantage of years of coaching, an (always) winning program, up front and personal insights into what was “really” going on in the locker room, at practice, and in the private lives of the players. But there were always folks that seemed to “know better” than we did.
Now I’m on the fan side of things. I’m going to question some decisions, but always with the respect that goes with knowing the team’s coaches really do know more than I do.
Xanders and Coach McDaniels tossed the "need" book out the window, and went for best available. Each of their picks is a "best" at something, and they each build towards an overall plan that didn't become clear to me until the Smith pick.
Denver's pick of a HB just built our defense, and covered for our new QB
The running back we just took is considered the best RB in the draft. SD doesn't get him, and the LT replacement in SD was just shot down.
Sure, I wanted defense with this pick. But we got it. The solid running game we should have for years to come takes time off the clock, and takes pressure off our newest QB.
The rest of our RBs are terrific, but are they all going to hold up this season from injury? If not, Moreno will be our superstar starter. If injuries don't happen, we get something like what the Panthers have - a Thunder and Lightning rotation of backs. (Did I mention that the Panthers are also an Ameoba Philosophy team, like the Patriots?) Imagine Moreno trading time with Hillis, and perhaps Torain!
Here's another point we might have missed: This pick must have had input from our famed RB coach (Turner) and our OL coach (Dennison). They always find "diamonds in the rough". But this time they wanted a first rounder, even with the existing talent on the team. What does this mean? It means the guys who bring us consistent 1000 yards rushers with late picks saw something that trumped anything else on the board. How elite can this guy be?
Beyond anything we've ever seen.
But that's just one piece of the plan. It all still wasn't clear to me. I didn't want a RB!
Denver then took a defensive lineman (DE)
Why? Everyone wanted a NT or a LB, right? Well wait a minute. What DEs are in the Broncos stable right now? There's a good chance that any player you named is being moved to OLB (Crowder, Doom, Moss). A few "experts" call Ayers the best defensive player in the draft. On the NFLN, I heard appraisals ranging from "top 3 player in the draft" to "best defensive" player.
So are we going to get upset because he wasn't the name or position we had penciled in? I've been consistent that the front 3 was our biggest need, and we've just spent a 1st rounder on 1/3 of that need.
This indicates two further probabilities.
- The available NTs in the draft did not impress the Broncos, or
- Denver has a secret weapon that nobody knows about. (Carlton Powell is a name bandied about. Injured in his rookie season, nobody except the coaches really knows what we have with him).
It was starting to gell. The best RB, the best defensive player... and then,
We trade a future first for some no name CB?
For a moment I was stunned. And then, the whole plan became clear.
Again, the commentary from NFLN got me to do some research. They pointed out (and I confirmed), that this guy is the best at something. Is he the fastest? No. He's even a little short for the position. Why, why, why?
He's the best ball hawking CB in the entire draft. Throw out the "measurables" that Denver relied for in the past few drafts, and look at actual performance. This guy gets ints, and gets them a lot.
Ted's comment says it all:
I love Alphonso Smith!!!! This guy has tremendous ball skils and anticipation, and will always be among the league leaders in INTs as a Number 2 CB. He's a starting nickelback right now. This is a great pick.
And now it clicked. Denver is going to be a ball control offense, and a a defense that gets turnovers. This was confirmed with the fourth pick that Denver had.
Denver takes a safety that we never heard of
Who else gets it besides me? Of course. Our leader (on site in NYC), who wrote:
The Broncos have a definite strategy so far in this draft, going after highly productive college players with a nose for the football. McBath is no exception, having picked off 7 passes in 2008 returning two for touchdowns.
Overall, McBath started 39 of 45 games in his career at Tech, mostly at safety. The Broncos needed to overhaul the secondary and they have done so with Smith and McBath.
It is true that neither of these guys are household names, but worry not Broncos fans, both of these guys have skill and ability. They know how to go get the football and were highly productive.
Conclusion -
Folks, the staff of MHR gets it. Each of us had pieces of the puzzle. Zappa wanted Moreno. He wanted him like a little girl wants a puppy! LOL
I knew that fans would be dissapointed if Denver took the strategy of picking best available instead of players targeted by need. Did I see it coming? No. Was it the way I wanted to go? No. But after it unfolded, I understood.
Ted was perhaps the first to see thorugh the illusion of trading a first rounder for the best ball hawker in the draft.
Guru saw the value in our safety pick, and agreed with Styg's take.
And it doesn't end there! We still have picks left tomorrow. Lots of picks!
Get ready for a team that can run the ball. Get ready for a team that nobody wants to throw against (Bailey, Dawkins, Goodman, Hill, and a ball hawking nickle that might be a #2 CB someday).
If I'm right, we have the LBs in place already (DJ WIlliams, Barrett, Larsen, Bailey, Doom, Crowder, and Moss. That sounds like plenty). We spent high pick on the DL.
Folks, I feel great.
And did I mention that the Raiders drafted poorly? How about the Chargers (who don't get Moreno now to replace an aging LT). And KC had to leak that they were spending their only first day pick on a player that wasn't the best on the board: again, Ted:
This is not surprising, considering the team has been leaking this to the media for a week, so as to limit the criticism for reaching. Jackson is talented, and will fit well in the scheme that KC is implementing. This is philosophy over value, because there are better players available.
Denver fans, we had a great day. I expect more unexpected picks tomorow, and more brilliance. I'll sleep well tonight. The team is in good hands.
POST SCRIPT!!!!!!!!!!
As I'm writing, Denver has traded in to get the last pick in the second!!!!
I sensed this in the force (I had e-mailed Styg to warn me if Denver did this while I was writing. As it turned out, we saw it at the same time).
NFLN crew agreed that Denver's picks may have sounded weird, but agreed that they are all solid players, and that that's all that matters.
So Denver just took Quinn, the best blocking TE in the draft (another "best").
So Denver ended up with 5 picks in the first two rounds.
I love it!!!!!
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The Smith comment was me :)
I did all of the comments for the first 2 rounds.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Apr 25, 2009 8:02 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Take that for what it's worth :)
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Apr 25, 2009 8:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Jackson comment is mine too...
obviously, since I just said I did all the comments.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Apr 25, 2009 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll fix it!!!!
Thanks!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 8:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed!
Sorry for the error.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 8:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they have done very good so far.
I have seen a lot of people who are being negative about some of the picks. Personally I am loving this draft.
by stedtfeld on Apr 25, 2009 8:02 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent post HT!
You definitely put things into perspective. Thanks.
by Kapiti on Apr 25, 2009 8:07 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
doh
my main form of disappointment is a) the front 3 who I haven’t really heard anything from the mini camp in the form of positive news and b) I have to do a lot of research on people I did zero research on before the draft
oh and no pick in the third round so when my daughter wakes us up at dawn, I can’t be watching for a broncos pick =)
by Todd Jewell on Apr 25, 2009 8:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thats not true....
We still have a pick in the 3rd!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 8:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We do?
I thought it was for the two 3rds.
by Kapiti on Apr 25, 2009 8:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad...sorry kapiti...but watch us get back into the 3rd
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 8:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We will probably trade Scheffler for a third
or maybe a first or second next year. I could live with that.
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
by papigrande on Apr 25, 2009 8:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
After watching the post-draft press conference with McDaniels
It does not sound like Tony is going anywhere.
McDaniels said he intends to use two and three tight end formations and wants to be comfortable with all three.
He said Graham is the better blocker, Scheffler is the better receiver (that can be moved around or even flexed out wide), and Quinn is somewhere is between. He added that Quinn is someone that will be able to contribute right away and will be here a long time.
The most striking comment was when McDaniels mentioned using linebackers, etc. as the third tight end and he basically cringed – a good sign for Scheffler fans.
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said!
3-TE set! The hoosierteacher hath foretold it!
"Space is Deep."
by Tempestuous Binary on Apr 25, 2009 8:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
(I said IT)
"Space is Deep."
by Tempestuous Binary on Apr 25, 2009 8:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed.
We will also run a lot of three WR sets without a FB.
A big reason to have solid, blocking TE. Also a critical reason to take Moreno. We need a RB who can move the ball without a lead blocker, AND catch screen passes.
The Moreno and Quinn picks become more obvious by the minute.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
These two picks really seem to solidify the offense
one OL and one WR and we should be set.
by CoastalBronco on Apr 25, 2009 9:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most years...
…most fans are shocked by their picks. We are always surprised, and yet each year we think we know what will happen in advance.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 8:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow...i cudda won the tshirt for the draft
just pick what you guys werent picking…rofl
MHR...and proud of it!
by MHRsGirl on Apr 25, 2009 8:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tried that in rounds 4-7 in my mock
LET THE DRAFT BEGIN
by robbo650 on Apr 25, 2009 8:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU COACH!!!! THE VOICE OF REASON.....
I am SO stoked for this draft. As you may have said, this is the first draft where it seems the Broncos have a plan….and you and the MHR staff have explained that plan for me.
I LOVE our 1st round, liked the 2nd and then saw the drafting of Quinn and went “Huh?”
Did the research, and you backed it up….best BLOCKING TE in the draft.
This team is turning into a monster….adn I love the new look of our team.
Mean, high character team guys that bring lots to the table, as well as having specializied skills.
GO BRONCOS!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 8:08 PM MDT reply actions 14 recs
I just rec'd a comment.
Who knew?
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of more recs, and his comment turns green!
Really!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:18 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice!
How many rec’s does it take until it turns orange or blue?
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 9:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
There ya go Boydy
a 5th Rec’D – well deserved.
by topnation on Apr 25, 2009 9:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the Rec'ds boys and girls!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 9:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for your tagline...
“All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????”
It seems that is happening right in front of our eyes!
by topnation on Apr 25, 2009 9:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep TN....and I am pretty stoked on that!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 9:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got Kool-Aid?
Bonus points if you know who this is… unfortunately I couldn’t locate a sufficient Bronco player to use…
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
wes welker?
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
by TD4HOF on Apr 25, 2009 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was too easy wasn't it?
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
a bit...only a few good white dudes who aren't qb's :)
and we all know what the qbs look like.
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
by TD4HOF on Apr 25, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suddenly got this mental image of 76,000+ rabid Bronco fans all sporting the
Orange and Blue Kool-Aid ’Stache!
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 10:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally rec'd
Agree completely.
I love today’s draft. We added players who can all help now.
Quinn also allows us to replace Graham in a year or so saving us a ton of money to re-sign Shanny’s last great draft classes. Very future oriented pick that could prove very crucial in the future.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
by Randall15 on Apr 25, 2009 11:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Article!!!!! i really needed that
suddenly i get it!! thats all i needed, a little positivity. can wait for tomorrow! and thanks HT.
Rec’d!
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win"-Brandon Marshall
Neckbeard vs The Spleen: How better can this get?!?!
by broncoboy on Apr 25, 2009 8:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
exactly I am tickled orange and blue!!
Moreno in 2009! - Check
Mays in 2010!
by Steve O' on Apr 25, 2009 8:10 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
My bad...sorry Todd!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 8:10 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
?
for me having to wake up at dawn with my daughter? =)
by Todd Jewell on Apr 25, 2009 8:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah man.....I am dad to 4 year old twins...
Sorry I said we had a 3rd….we have 2 × 4th instead!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 8:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted C.
I like all the players. I like Moreno a lot, and I like Ayers a lot. Smith and Quinn are looking to be good system guys. I’m still on the fence about McBath considering the talent that was there when we drafted him, but I will wait and see if he can be a good player someday.
I just wish we would have drafted a D-lineman. Another one, at least. Ron Brace maybe, or Jarron Gilbert, Fili Moala, or some other fourth guy. Hopefully tomorrow we’ll address that need with Mitch King, a “Patriot Way” guy if there ever was one, and Sammie Lee Hill. I think this draft has a ton of potential, and I think that it could be as good as last year’s. I just don’t agree with the philosophy that you build your defense secondaru-first.
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
by papigrande on Apr 25, 2009 8:10 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Some foresaw this with the FA signings especially the NT out of San Francisco. We haven’t seen him play so we may not be as bad at that position as many who are hitting the panic button believe.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or they have a favorite sleeper DT for the later rounds
I think we will see when all is said and done that the price paid for some of those DT’s was way too high.
by Broncotodd on Apr 26, 2009 7:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing I like is that McD is bringing in guys that will fit a certain system.
He is saying, “this is the kind of team that the Denver Broncos will be.” He isn’t listening to anyone, and he’s taking the guys he wants. I’d just like a little more depth on the line is all.
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
by papigrande on Apr 25, 2009 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said the same thing on a different post. High Five.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta start somewhere though...
The secondary (except for Champ when healthy) has been abysmal. We have so many defensive needs it will take more than a draft to fill them. Moreno makes sense to control the clock, keep Orton’s pass attempts within reason and keep the D off the field. A good blocking tight end who can also catch helps both Moreno and Orton stay on the field.
Yeah, I’d like to see a Ted Washington style monster NT, but it doesn’t look like any are available in this draft so far (I’m not a big Raji fan) so using the Moreno and Quinn picks on defenders won’t fill that hole. One of the USC linebackers might have been a good fit but I’ll keep my fingers crossed that we have enough potential 3-4 personnel to field an adequate front seven this year and hopefully build more with next year’s draft.
I think we made the most out of what was available and the more I think about the Moreno pick the happier I am. The only question mark for me is whether Smith’s worth a first rounder – he’s short at 5’9 – and I remember what Reggie Wayne (at only 6’ even) and other taller dudes did to Darent Williams.
"Go get open !" John Elway to Shannon Sharpe - AFC Championship Game - Jan. 11, 1998 - Pittsburgh
A Bronco fan in San Diego - where history begins in 2004.
by BroncFanInChargerLand on Apr 25, 2009 8:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
McD said the staff thought Smith should have been rated in the first round.
They wanted him badly.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Denver is bringing in talent. I bet FA was used to fix some of the bad wholes with solid veterans and the draft is brining in some dynamic guys. I like what I see.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:11 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Gang, I'm driving home from my present location.
I’ll be back in about forty minutes and will be available for questions and comments (or counseling, if anyone is about to “off” themselves).
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 8:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Counseling
I think the for the guys who need it…well it will be too late.
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get it! i finally understand thier school of thought on this.
McDaniels said he was going to keep the offense doing what it does best, producing. It didn’t produce in the red zone which was a common need for us, enter Kyle Orton. Then draft day comes, enter Knowson Moreno and Quinn. Knowshon offers a solid running attack that is a pure, flat out weapon. Quinn brings, what I believe, is a short yardage, up the middle passing attack. We have all three fields covered on the offensive side: The short running game, the short passing game, and the long passing game.
As for the defense, they clearly saw things we don’t know of yet in the camps. They obviously found that these guys are coming into their own in the 3-4 scheme. We have plenty of linebackers, and post-first day draft, I get it. They have everything they need in the LB corp. Now they work in a tough guy like Ayers. I saw his clips posted by TSG and I love it. He’s a rushing guy that puts that pressure on the quarterback. If nothing else, he exposes weak spots on the offensive line. He’s also athletic enough to make things happen against the running game as well.
Our new safety in Alphonso Smith is going to prove to be much more valuable than we think as well. I agree completely HT, by forcing turnovers, we control the game. Our offense is clearly the more talented side of the ball, and with a DB that can produce interceptions (thanks to teams underestimating him as a rookie), we can truly control the game. But instead of controlling from a defensive side, we control on our offensive side.
This is genius! Rec’d HT, I love it!
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
by Joe Medina on Apr 25, 2009 8:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you DO get it.
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I didn’t like the direction of the draft at first, but now I’m starting to see the direction this team is going in.
And boy do I love it. No more playing conservative. A turnover-based defense will be a fun one to watch.
by Rob4Braves on Apr 25, 2009 8:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
can you link me or explain this comment by styg that was in your story?
Styg was perhaps the first to see thorugh the illusion of trading a first rounder for the best ball hawker in the draft.
i just dont understand why we did this so some explanation would be helpful. you can just link me to styg’s original comment if you want
by purplesocks on Apr 25, 2009 8:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it means most people had a heart attack but he thought it wasn’t too bad.
Am I right?
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was thinking it meant that we didnt get burned on the trade
by purplesocks on Apr 25, 2009 8:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe…
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Future Picks.
The rule of thumb is that future draft picks are worth a current pick that’s a round later. In other words, next year’s first is worth this year’s second. If you look back at other trades involving future picks, this tends to hold true.
"The mystic chords of fandom, stretching from every trade and signing to every active account and guest all over this broadband, will yet swell the chorus of union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature". ~ Abraham Lincoln-ish
"The tree of victory must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of quarterbacks and coaches". ~ Thomas Jefferson-ish
by ejruiz on Apr 25, 2009 8:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
is there a better ball hawk?
and why pay for 4 forts rounders when the value is in round 2! I love today we got ball hawks and I’m sure Fields is got the NT and Doom and Moss off the edge! Ball control Football
Moreno in 2009! - Check
Mays in 2010!
by Steve O' on Apr 25, 2009 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Doom and Ayers!
Also, could Powell be the secret weapon?
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Powell
I don’t know if Powell will be competing for NT or at 5-tech, but I have this feeling that he’ll end up starting for us soon. His scouting reports are generally quite glowing and most of the negatives are fixable with weights/coaching (and considering he was injured all of last year, he hopefully won’t have suffered many ill effects of the evident non-coaching on the DL last year). Not only does he appear to have the physical tools, but he’s also got Eddie’s work ethic and smarts.
I know we can’t expect too much from a 5th rounder, but from everything I’ve read, I can’t see him not making an impact as he’s obviously got both the talent and the drive. He may have fallen last year due to a perceived lack of pass rushing skills, but it seems he was doubled most of the time in any case. So, all in all, I’ll be keeping a very close eye on him throughout camp.
by Muse_Cubed on Apr 26, 2009 5:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was he allowed to practice with the team last year?
Just wondering how much he might’ve developed.
by CoastalBronco on Apr 26, 2009 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The illusion of a first round trade.
Coach McDaniels held an interview right after the draft, and confirmed my thoughts.
Denver had the CB rated as a first round pick. They were shocked he fell so far. They feel they traded a future 1st rounder for a player that (in their minds) was a complete STEAL.
No one (even the experts scratching their heads) thinks he is a bad player. They all agree he is solid, and that he has the best INT numbers in the draft. But he’s short, and so some draft experts over looked him. When he fell much further than Denver believed possible, they pulled the trigger.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we traded a first rounder to move up in the second for what was first round talent this year
I was confused at first, but it makes more sense at this point, trade to get first round talent and at a better value. Makes perfect sense in hindsight, but very little off the get.
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
by Choochoobonewagon on Apr 25, 2009 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
this is a deep DB draft, especially when you include safeties. They KNEW he would last past the first round and were prepared to go get him with a trade in the second.
McD’s comment in the presser is particularly illuminating. To paraphrase he said that Denver started to make calls and target Smith at EVERY SPOT HE WAS at. As he slipped from team to team, Denver kept calling each team to trade (not telling them who they were after of course). They weren’t going to take a chance on him falling to #48, just like they didn’t let Moreno try to fall to #18.
When you know who you want, don’t hesitate.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 25, 2009 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus we got good value
a first round ranked player for a second round contract.
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 11:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
McDaniels presser
going live. He looks like a deer in the headlights. Dude needs to get spme sleep. lol
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
by papigrande on Apr 25, 2009 8:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Optimism is Fine
on draft day, but I see this draft as very mixed. We had multiple choices from the Cutler misadventure. I thought our biggest need was some beef up front so that teams could not run through us or throw on our linebackers. Don’t know if we got as much as we needed in those areas. Clearly we needed some help in the secondary. That we got. Prime running back should take pressure off of the QB’s. Not much help for the receiving crew.
This group may make or break the new guys. Nothing special left for next year’s draft. The Cutler payback is here. I am not sure we got what we needed from the exchange.
by Baltimore Bronco on Apr 25, 2009 8:21 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
We got multiple picks, and then some!
Who expected us to have five picks today? Really, who?
Good day!
Best RB
Best DE (perhaps best defensive player)
Best Intercepting CB
Best Intercepting safety
Best blocking TE
Very clever stuff, to get all of these guys!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
love the picks
Just wonder if we needed to move up to get them.
by CoastalBronco on Apr 25, 2009 9:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently the FO did not feel it was worth the risk to be "patient"
At least that was the impression I had after McDaniels’ PDPC.
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Best"
With the exception of Moreno, I think others have different opinions. Fortunately, we just get to sit back and watch it all play out.
by Baltimore Bronco on Apr 26, 2009 7:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
McD made it seem like the mcbath pick might have been a rushed pick
by purplesocks on Apr 25, 2009 8:21 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I got that impression as well
I’m sure they wanted him, but I think they were choosing between him and someone else (Quinn maybe?). I don’t doubt they got their guy, I just wonder who else they were looking at there…
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 25, 2009 10:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is hard to tell who else they were looking at
Especially based on who was taken between McBath and Quinn.
S. Smith or W. Moore are the only two I see and based on first impressions are not as “destructive” – meaning the FO must have felt McBath willl generate the most turnovers… and wasn’t McBath a captain, team leader, etc?
Shooting off the cuff here…
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Royal, marshall, stokely, gaffney on the outside...
a world-class o-line… moreno and hillis in the backfield… sheffler, graham and the rook at TE… a QB that can spread the ball around… go ahead, plan for this offense. Are they going to pick you apart in the passing game, or pound it down your throat? Pick your poison.
Then, you add a stud DE/OLB to play in our hybrid D… and two young, ball-hawking DBs to go along with the veteran FA acquisitions, and we are already leaps and bounds ahead of where we were under coach Slo.
Booya!
"Talking tough is easy when it's other people's evil and you're judging what they do or don't believe. It seems to me you'd have to have a hole you're own to point a finger at somebody else's sheet" -- Mike Cooley
by ButteBronco on Apr 25, 2009 8:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think they are going explosive offense and a defensive that gets the ball back into the offense’s hands.
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
BINGO K......thats the most succinct way of putting this draft and FA period into perspective!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
An explosive offense that works with a short field!!
I like the sound of that!!!
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 9:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barrett.....
So are we sure that Josh Barrett will be going to LB then?? Im just wondering…
MELO!!!
MileHighReport.com
PickaxeAndRoll.com
by abaca15 on Apr 25, 2009 8:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope not.
I mentioned Barrett earlier, but I meant Woodyard.
I would like to see Mcbath and Barrett groomed to take over for Dawkins and Hill.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that is the future
after a couple of years of world class tutoring.
by topnation on Apr 25, 2009 9:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get it too!
I don’t see a trade for Sheffler. Quinn is the short yardage, goaline second tight end that can make sure we are scoring touchdowns and not kicking field goals from the 2 yard line.
Sheffler is still the pass catcher with Graham the everydown player that can do both. 3 tight ends who will be solid for anything we need them to do.
"Now we have them where we want them"
-Kieth Bishop - On the Denver 2 yard line, Cleveland Ohio, 1987
by AlanC on Apr 25, 2009 8:28 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Basically what McDaniels said in his post draft press conference (PDPC?)
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 8:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they really plan on implementing the 'magic 3' scenario, doesn't Putzier make more sense now?
Because, you better have a back up who can fill the all too important 3rd receiving tight end role if Schef goes down (not that we have any reason to think he would do that).
I see it the same way I see the massive rb depth, you can’t have too many of what makes your system work.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Apr 26, 2009 12:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be surprised to see one more TE added later.
maybe an ufa
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Apr 26, 2009 12:24 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 TEs is a lot on a roster.
Putzier may stay, but I think we go Graham / Quinn on run downs or for pass protection, and Scheff / Graham for potential passing. There is some buzz that Quinn might be capable in the receptions game, but only the coaches would know for sure. Putzier is not the future, and that’s my only point. He should be fourth on the chart, unless Denver goes all out and drops the FB position completely. As of now, only one NFL team has dropped the FB.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 26, 2009 7:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
“Magic 3” is a little different from the 3 TE set. M3 indicates an actual system approach (3 TEs on multiple plays), vs 3 TE sets which are still in the growing stages.
But M3 is coming. I’m glad it was one of my first MHR-U articles ever. Folks see it playing out already. In another decade or two, it will be commonplace.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 26, 2009 7:14 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Putzier
I think he stays. If we are going to run some 3 TE sets we need some depth, plus Putzier is good on special teams. And, he’s a football player – remember all those tremedous hits he took when still with the Broncos and held the ball and got up?
Growing older is not for sissies. Jack Palance
by bradley on Apr 26, 2009 7:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
goaline TE
so what your saying is….I need to draft Quinn for my FF team? :-D
"I'm not looking for the best players; I'm looking for the right ones." ~Coach Herb Brooks in "Miracle"
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 25, 2009 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Naah...draft Moreno
The guy Quinn will be blocking for!
On the fantasy side note, it sure will be nice to have a Bronco RB to get for my attempt at 3 year consecutive championships!
by Broncotodd on Apr 26, 2009 8:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont forget Hillis
At H-back, god… that would be a beast of a front at the goal line!
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
by Choochoobonewagon on Apr 25, 2009 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got him in my keeper league!
Which is good because there is no way Moreno will be around when my pick comes up.
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 27, 2009 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks HT!
This happens every year and I’m glad you took the time to express it. People try to bend the team’s actions to their desires instead of trying to understand what the team is doing without imprinting their personal beliefs onto them.
"The mystic chords of fandom, stretching from every trade and signing to every active account and guest all over this broadband, will yet swell the chorus of union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature". ~ Abraham Lincoln-ish
"The tree of victory must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of quarterbacks and coaches". ~ Thomas Jefferson-ish
by ejruiz on Apr 25, 2009 8:28 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
OMG- OMG, how much have you had to drink today HT?
I am sorry, A. Smith is slow and short, he is Jack Williams except slower, you basically traded a 1st rounder (Taylor Mays, Brandon Spikes, Rolle, Suh, Cody, Bradford, McCoy) for a guy who likely will be fighting Jack Williams for playing time, sorry that is a fail of the highest order.
The two 1st round picks again don’t make much sense, why draft a RB with the 12th overall pick after signing half the leagues RB, seems like a move to say FU to Shanahan philosphy more than actually doing what is best for the team. Ayers, maybe he is better than what I think (Mayock thinks so and so I tend to hold hope), but seems like we have a bunch of Ayers already on the roster, why add another one.
The safety, I have no idea but my guess is based on how weak this safety class was that this was a tremendous reach, I am guessing his INT were more a product of getting to play in the Big 12 where everyone is chucking the ball versus actually his talent. Why not take Sean Smith and convert him to Safety if that is your need.
A blocking TE for 2 third rounders, again, I am guessing we could of had him in the third round, seems like a paranoid move.
I am sorry HT, I respect your opinion, but I think this draft will be one we will regret for some time over what we gave up and what we got.
Sorry HT, but this has been a bad day at best
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 8:28 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I can’t understand your negativity. It really makes me sad that some Broncos fans really feel that way while I am very excited about these players.
by stedtfeld on Apr 25, 2009 8:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
You must be new here. Josh McDanials could spin a spool full of gold and BM would prefer silver.
"Talking tough is easy when it's other people's evil and you're judging what they do or don't believe. It seems to me you'd have to have a hole you're own to point a finger at somebody else's sheet" -- Mike Cooley
by ButteBronco on Apr 25, 2009 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Yeah…you can take the Girl out of New York, but you can’t take the pessimist out of Broncoman. :)
BM: I hope for all of our sakes you are wrong…but you’ll get to find out when we get to actually play some football.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Apr 25, 2009 10:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a joke hidden in there.
But I’m going to let it go.
lol
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 26, 2009 7:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL.
"Upon the instruments of death, the sunlight brightly gleams."
by Tempestuous Binary on Apr 25, 2009 11:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Complain Complain Complain
lets see these guys play then make judgement.
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon guys.
Some folks are negative, and that’s unfortunate. But BM is just presenting a valid view. He isn’t “being” negative, he just disagrees with the draft strategy. That’s cool with me.
People can disagree with a team’s moves, but do it in a constructive way. I disagree with BM on this matter, but his views are reasonable, and he supports his thoughts.
No harm / no foul.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Every board needs a talented and articulate curmudgeon. Broncoman is our man!
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
every board needs a repoman?
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 25, 2009 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you BM
If the philosophy is a high flying/ballcontrol offense with a D that can create turnovers, heres the flaw I see. How do we creae turnovers when the other team just runs the ball down our throat over and over again. What have we done to change that? Ayers? We still need someone to play the Nose in a 3-4. Our Lb’s are only marginally better. I dont see it. If we are going to take the “best at something” players then why not the best run stuffers, the best QB pressurers, the best ………SOMETHING WE NEEDED!!
by Kdo09 on Apr 25, 2009 9:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe two things about run stuffing.
Denver’s evaluation of the NT’s available to us in the draft didn’t produce a good player, and second, Denver thinks they have what they need in house. Fields or Powell.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
McD's comments in the predraft presser are again illuminating
He talked about
A) How young our front seven players are. He was asked to evaluate guys like Powell and Fields, and he said that it was the hardest position to get a read on without hitting. Then he went out of his way to tell the reporter taht the players were all very YOUNG. I read that as saying there is a lot of potential in our front seven right now. As much as we could have gotten in THIS draft.
B) He talked about how many Dlinemen a team really needs. With our OLB/DEs mixed into the pot, he pointed out that you would be lucky to activate more than 5 Dlinemen for any game. We are already over five, all of them very young.
Stuffing the run is valuable, no doubt. But, without the luxury of seeing them play in a comprehensive and consistent scheme, we are being fed clues that say we actually have talent on the defensive line.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 25, 2009 10:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll steal from my next MHR-U to help you out.
I shouldn’t, but here it goes.
Denver is going to run a lot of three WR sets (like NE and Indy). In such a scenario, the FB is absent. (I wrote two years ago that the FB position in the NFL is dying out, and teams will move heavily towards 2 and 3 TE sets over the next 20 or so years).
This means Denver MUST have a RB that can be a threat without a lead blocker, AND he has to be able to catch. Enter the Moreno pick. This also explains Quinn. The need for a fierce, blocking TE.
We have two awesome DBs in Bailey and Dawkins, but they won’t be here for much longer. Enter two ball hawking DBs. McD said the reason for the 1st round trade (he said he knew folks would freak) was because Denver had him penciled in as a first round talent that just kept dropping. By that reasoning, they feel they actually traded up.
Ayers is, of course, one of the best (if not the best) defensive players in the draft.
Makes sense to me.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smith is also a teriffic returner
Smith is also a special teams returner that can keep Royal off special teams and give us some explosivness there too.
"Now we have them where we want them"
-Kieth Bishop - On the Denver 2 yard line, Cleveland Ohio, 1987
by AlanC on Apr 25, 2009 8:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Is Smith Better than Taylor Mays, Cody, Brandon Spikes, Rolle, Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy?
Cause that is basically what we gave up to get him.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 8:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
have those guys played a single down in the NFL?
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
by Darin H on Apr 25, 2009 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but neither have the guys we picked
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 8:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So how can you say that they will be better pros than those other guys?
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
by papigrande on Apr 25, 2009 8:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simple
All of those guys would of been top 15 picks this yearif they came out, why give up what amounts to a top 15 pick for a 2nd rounder that likely would of been there when you picked later in the round, why do you think NE and Cleveland were so willing to unload picks, because they know this year’s draft is a weak class and the value is later than earlier, if you want some better players, next years draft is much more loaded.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 9:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Akili Smith was picked 3...he turned out great...point is you dont know Broncoman......knowing what you know no would you have taken Eddie Royal in the ist or were you screaming at the TV when we took him in the 2nd? Cant have it both ways!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 9:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was fine with teh Royal pick
I thought it was high, but I thought size wise he would be better than Jackson, the point is, like Mayock pointed out, why trade into a bad draft and trade out of a good draft. Every pick is a crap shoot, but people that are scouting understand that next year’s crap shoot is much better than this years.
Look at the scouting report for Smith and tell me if it is not a clone of Jack Williams, except Smith is slower and likely shorter, I don’t give a damn about what he did against scrubs in the ACC, short and slow CB have short careers in the NFL.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 9:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats cool....but Mayock is saying we had a GREAT draft and have 2 of the best 5 picks with the 12th and 18th.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 9:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 of the top 5 players in his own ratings!
Including his favorite player! I agree!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But BM,
Mayock added a point that you left out. “All of those players are really good. The bottom line is that, if these are all good players, and they play well, nothing else including the trade matters and it was a good draft for them”.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
HT- They may be good players
But what I have the issue with is reaching for want (something TSG wrote about), Moreno I actually am fine with, I kind of was hoping Crabtree would of fallen to us and trust me, I would be able to defend that pick. But to me, Moreno likely would of been there at 18, so why take him at 12, also where exactly does he fit in with Hillis and the rest of the RB gang, there is only so many touches guys are going to get. Ayers, again may be a really good player, but seems like we have a lot of similar players to Ayers, hopefully he is the real deal and not a one year wonder (as I suspect). I guess I am just really confused on the A. Smith deal, this makes no sense to me, I think he is a slower version of Jack Williams and to me not worth a 1st rounder, especially when you look at who we may be giving up next year, if I were to tell you that pick will be used to draft Taylor Mays, I am guessing everyone here would be going Ape S&$%. There just seems to me so much more talent next year versus this year, I hate selling out for what looks like a physically limited player (no coaching will change his height and speed), and despite having good technique, if you are short and slow, in the NFL you will be exposed. The safety I just felt was a reach, especially when you pass on a guy like Sean Smith who would likely be a better CB/S prospect than the two guys we picked, if we had not traded up and stayed pat and drafted Sean Smith I think that would be a brillant draft. The TE also seems like someone who would be there in the 3rd round, why trade both our 3rd rounders for him. It is giving up more than what a guy is worth.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read my reply to you upthread.
We have to have Moreno for our new 3 WR set system. We need a 1st round RB that can get it done without a lead blocker.
The FB position is dying out, and we (along with NE and INDY) are on the cutting edge.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where Hillis will be the "next" Dallas Clark who...
Also happens to run the ball with authority!
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moreno would not have been there ...
at 18. We took him at 12 because that was the only shot we would get at him.
by anotherNYCbroncofan on Apr 26, 2009 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You say they would all have been top 15 picks.
How do you know we would even be picking in the top 15, or that any of the guys we wanted would be available when we were picking? Also, we still have a number one next year, so we will be able to probably pick up at least one of those guys.
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
by papigrande on Apr 25, 2009 11:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly, thanks for understanding my point perfectly.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
by Darin H on Apr 25, 2009 8:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
@BM
“Is Smith Better than Taylor Mays, Cody, Brandon Spikes, Rolle, Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy?
Cause that is basically what we gave up to get him."
It is irrelevant whether or not Smith is better than any of the players in next years draft. Smith may or may not payoff big this year, but I guarantee that none of the guys from next years draft will do squat this year in the NFL.
The thing I liked most about Shanahan was that he refused to accept the notion of rebuilding years. I for one am really excited to see our new coach shares this philosophy. The fact that he was able to get so many highly rated players in the draft who have potential to help him win this year is exactly what I want to see.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Apr 26, 2009 12:46 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
BTW, who are the leaders for the contests?
just wondering
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win"-Brandon Marshall
Neckbeard vs The Spleen: How better can this get?!?!
by broncoboy on Apr 25, 2009 8:30 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll tally it up later tonight
over some apricot brandy with knowshon highlights on repeat in the background.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 25, 2009 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tally question!
Do I get points in the first round mock for Phil Loadholt to the Vikings since they took him in the 2nd?
I don’t really care, just want to make sure everyone knows my logic wasn’t completely faulty LOL
by jaffe28 on Apr 25, 2009 10:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let us not forget
that we still have a terribly dangerous CB in Champ Bailey, and Brian Dawkins is still a physical guy that makes plays and fires guys up. Our defense still has the ability to make plays against the pass, and this new 3-4 should help us more against the run as well. I’m very happy with today’s draft!
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
by Joe Medina on Apr 25, 2009 8:31 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
We traded both our 3rd rounders for that 64th pick, and Pittsburghs 4th round pick as well.
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
by Joe Medina on Apr 25, 2009 8:32 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Ya it was 2 3rds for a 2nd and 4th… pretty fair.
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We got their 4th?
I didn’t realize that and I now feel a little better about that trade.
by stedtfeld on Apr 25, 2009 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
McDaniels just mentioned that in his presser
he said we gave them both of our 3rds, for thier 2nd and 4th. That’s a pretty good deal
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
by Joe Medina on Apr 25, 2009 8:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question about the first trade
Is there a definitive answer on which first round draft pick we traded next year?
by purplesocks on Apr 25, 2009 8:32 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm 90% sure that it depends.
haha, that sounds stupid, but it depends on which pick is higher and lower. I’m sure we will take the higher pick, giving up our lower, whichever that may be.
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
by Joe Medina on Apr 25, 2009 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha i need some more clarification
higher as in earlier in the draft not numerical wise right?
by purplesocks on Apr 25, 2009 8:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
right!
Say Chicago goes 4-12 and we go 11-5….
well naturally, Chicago will have a higher pick (within the top 10), and ours would be 20-25 or so…We would take the first pick, and we’ll be sending Seattle that 20-25 pick.
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
by Joe Medina on Apr 25, 2009 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it conditional?
NFLN ticker specifically stated that it was Denver’s natural pick, NOT the pick they received from Chicago, meaning Seattle will still get our pick, even if Chicago ends up with a better record than us.
by Rob4Braves on Apr 25, 2009 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
mcdaniels in his press conference made it seem conditional
by purplesocks on Apr 25, 2009 11:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't conditional
he was toying with the interviewer, who claimed that it would be a higher or lower pick (than the one that we will receive fromt eh bears), and he stated that you can look at it a lot of ways, but that both teams agreed that Denver’s natural pick was the right deal.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 26, 2009 1:25 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of a sudden, 11-5 isn't so unrealistic....
I like that. What a powerhouse offense this is (I’d venture a prognostication that we could again be in the top 3 in offense but with more wins) and how exciting will it be to watch!
Gotta love it.
by Broncotodd on Apr 26, 2009 8:20 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 1 we got from the Bears.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks HT
I have been calm all day. I must admit, the McBath pick had me puzzled. I’m not a draft expert, so all the insight is welcomed. I trust that our front office knows what they are doing and congratulate the staff here for noticing and pointing it out to the rest of us. I ALSO believe that our team has been improved, and the draft isn’t even halfway through.
Rec’d
My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season
by KaptainKirk on Apr 25, 2009 8:34 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling MHR would spin trading away a young probowl qb as a postive move
oh wait…
by thisisbs on Apr 25, 2009 8:37 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The difference is they back up their “spin” with intelligent commentary and analysis.
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 25, 2009 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
How dare we be positive!
What are we THINKING, actually thinking our coaches had a plan and got some of the players they liked and that these players will help the team?
Clearly we should give up on the team and not be excited for this next season at all.
by Shoemaker on Apr 25, 2009 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn I love your style Shoey...rock on man, I am totally with ya!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 9:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
the exit's right there if you don't like it
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
by Darin H on Apr 25, 2009 8:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just like
Tennessee was foolish for releasing their young, shutdown CB, right?
Dude, did you not follow Three Months in Cutler? He wanted nothing to do with us, and we got return for him while his trade value was at its highest.
by Rob4Braves on Apr 25, 2009 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then go away!
My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season
by KaptainKirk on Apr 25, 2009 9:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
wish there was an iggy button
MHR...and proud of it!
by MHRsGirl on Apr 25, 2009 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
yet again
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 9:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler traded himself.
He refused to answer calls, and demanded a trade. When his bluff got called, he was shocked! (lol)
That’s what happens to people who try to make a big deal out of their team just listening to an offer, and turning it down anyway.
Your name is correct. Your comment IS bs.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about all of you people crying to wait until next year to get a great NT?
My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season
by KaptainKirk on Apr 25, 2009 8:40 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's not jump the gun
As much as we all wanted Raji/Brace, Fields played for Nolan in SF, and apparently did well as a NT in the hybrid scheme they ran there. Supposedly he wasn’t about to reach his full potential because they didn’t play the 3-4 exclusively, which slowed his learning curve.
Take that for what you will; I’m just the messenger. But I’d be interested to see how Fields (or whoever) pans out this year before we all start dreaming of Terrence Cody in blue & orange.
by Rob4Braves on Apr 25, 2009 8:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that got a hell of alot harder since we traded away a 1st for a slower version of Jack Williams
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 9:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't hate
Take a look at his video highlights on the other post. Yeah, they’re only highlights, but they’re not half bad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED9C6JWaoPg
Remember, people doubted San Diego for taking a cornerback who was injured for the entire previous year with an ACL injury. Is anyone laughing at Antonio Cromartie now?
by Rob4Braves on Apr 25, 2009 9:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am, Bradon Marshall exposed him last year
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marshall did...
…but precious few others.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not in the second game when it mattered....
and Cromartie, who is a sick ball-player, made plays for them all year….
by jaredstill on Apr 25, 2009 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well looking at those highlites I saw some piss poor QB throws
Again, FSU/Clemson QB not the same as going up against Phillip Rivers, Peyton Manning and the likes, honestly I see Jack Williams except slower, someone who will struggle in the NFL.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He fooled the entire Broncos war room then.
They had him pegged as a first round talent.
Funny though. First, the guy is too short. When I point out his terrific INT production, you blame the QBs! Were they shorter than him?
(I’m not taking it personaly. I’m 6’4" 1/2)
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No but look at the tape
QB’s throw into double and triple coverage, Jack Williams was very productive in collge, doesn’t always translate in the pros. Cromartie (who everyone wants to compare him to for some reason) actually had a horrible college career and was burned routinely by D 2 WR and QB. I am saying when you play some ACC schulb QB, the production may get somewhat inflated.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cromartie was amazing in college....
That’s why he went in the first round.
Seriously? Saying he had an awful college career is an awful take. Seriously terrible opinion, and you clearly didn’t watch him play. He was a baller.
by jaredstill on Apr 25, 2009 10:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remind me not to debate you.
That looks like a checkmate if ever I saw one (and I’ve seen ’em from NYC to Rostov).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 11:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You and Al Davis love speed ubber alles huh?
lol
Seriousy though (and I’m a speed fan myself), try to argue with his production. I don’t give a flip if the guy is a darned DWARF! If he can get all of those interceptions, who cares? The guy is a midget on steroids! Give him a break!
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am just saying college production and NFL production usally don't equate
He obviously was a very good college player, but since he will be facing guys with 6 to 8 inch height advantages and a speed advantage, he will have a hard time hoping he gets to play Duke on a regular basis. He will get exposes as slow and short, technique can’t make up fo those things in the NFL.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 25, 2009 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Using your reasoning...
…college players shouldn’t go pro.
By the way, pro players are no taller than college players. Doc will verify that male growth stops before a kid gets to the pros.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the same time, the talent and physical attributes get concentrated at the pros.
If a NCAA-wide freshman class has, say, 10 6’-6" (or taller) wide receivers, that’s a very small fraction. If even just 2 of them make the NFL, they’re a much higher proportion for their year. BM’s point seems to be driven more along the lines of the different levels of talent discrimination.
He won’t be facing that increased talent level alone, as the defense around him will also be of elevated talent in comparison to his college days, but it will have an effect.
(And again, I’m not coming to any conclusions on this draft. I’m self-mandating a 2-week cooling-off period minimum.)
by Hooper on Apr 25, 2009 10:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Granted, but consider:
BM’s point is his height. I think I’ve dispelled that.
Yes, the game is more physical, but it is for all college players entering the pros. Compared to other college players (entering the pros), his onfield performance is better. He doesn’t have to be as good as the pros, just better than the other CBs that were available.
BTW, nobody calls Doom “short” now.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do get what you're saying.
I think we’re both carrying a bit of the truth in to this one, though. In a relative sense, he’ll be shorter in comparison to the offenses he faces than he was in college because NFL teams can concentrate height, weight, speed, etc. more effectively than college teams.
Like you note about Doom, it can be overcome. But for every Doom, there are guys who weren’t able to overcome any advantages they gave up in height/weight/whatever. It’s a matter of seeing that element. With Smith, the element in question is his ability to get interceptions. If he translates that into the pros, fine; he has a shot at overcoming the height he’ll give up. If not, then he’s likely a failed risk.
And that’s fine; every draft pick is a risk. You win some and lose some, and I don’t mind Denver losing some. I’m not coming to any conclusions, but it’s very reasonable to be skeptical at this point and even to be critical of the strategy that led to his drafting.
(And for the record, I am in absolutely no position to judge Smith. I haven’t seen an ounce of film on him yet and hadn’t even heard his name prior to today. I’m not looking to win an argument or prove a point – just to get a feel for both sides of the coin.)
by Hooper on Apr 25, 2009 10:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you.
Your reasoning is sound.
My biggest defense is that we can only measure a college player against how he has done against other college players. While we can both speculate about how well a player does when he gets to the pros, my prime point is that this kid has put together an incredible number of INTs.
The draft being what it is (a glorified lottery), the kid has done everything possible to earn a shot. He is short. His speed isn’t light speed. And yet, he tracks and destroys passes like nobody’s business.
The trade does look steep on its face (McD admitted that). But several people in the war room wanted this guy badly.
Who knows?
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely.
It’s very easy to find reasons to be skeptical; then again, there have been many players who didn’t pass the knee-jerk-fan-reaction test and turned out to be huge in the pros. IIRC, Jerry Rice was one of those (to cherrypick a name.)
And I think a lot of the tension right now is that everybody is discussing both the draft strategy and the draft selections. They’re related, but it’s possible to love or hate the strategy and feel the opposite on the selections. And to me, the strategy is more important as we’ll see the same strategy next year.
by Hooper on Apr 26, 2009 9:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gruden just made Smith his defensive rookie of the year projection
He knows a little about football. :)
by Broncotodd on Apr 26, 2009 8:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
How that is a ridiculous argument. College stats don’t correlate with pros usually!? Really!? WOW…it must be like the NFL is a whole different level or something…like way more serious. Do you think the players at the NFL get paid for what they do and spend all year making themselves better at football…like maybe only the BEST players are actually on the field.
I guess we’ll find out if our 5’9" CB can play with the big boys then. Yeah…maybe he won’t get a bunch of INTs once he is a starter (which won’t be this year for sure). But gosh…he just might actually be really talented and able to play with the big boys. I guess maybe we can wait until we see how well he plays before we know how worth it he was.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Apr 25, 2009 11:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
On another note...
Is it Mor-AY-no or Mor-EE-no? I’ve heard both.
First one who can help me finally figure this out gets a free, limited-edition Al Davis windup doll*.
- - Not to be confused with the actual Al Davis.
by Rob4Braves on Apr 25, 2009 8:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
Mor-AY-no = our new RB
Mor-ee-no = HOF fish QB
; )
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 9:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets not forget that personnel is only half the battle...scheme/coaching counts too.
Our defense last year was not horrible just because we had crappy players…we had a complete tool as a DC also. Now we have a proven DC and a HC who knows what he wants to do and knows the kind of players he needs to do it. I am excited.
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
by TD4HOF on Apr 25, 2009 8:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
There is still room to get a LB and a DE later on
Jarron Gilbert?
Jasper Brinkley?
Terrance Taylor?
Zach Potter?
My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season
by KaptainKirk on Apr 25, 2009 8:44 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Zach Potter
Is one of the most versatile late round picks that will be available…
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 8:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we can get brinkley and taylor with our two fourth round picks
my outlook on this draft will go from being a B- to a B+
by purplesocks on Apr 25, 2009 11:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get where you're coming from, but I think a cooling-off period is in effect.
There’s a lot of emotion flying around right now about the draft, and I’m not sure any of us is fully settled yet. ht is right that there seems to be a definite motus in the selections, which is quite likely a good thing. But at the same time, what other draft strategies could have fit that same motus? How successful were they really at drafting into the scheme they had in mind?
And I’m not knocking them; I’m saying this whole thing has a sense of vertigo to it and I don’t really trust a positive or a negative reaction right now. Heck, I’m still in graduate school at Tennessee and absolutely love to see Ayers bridge my favorite teams. It’s not like I don’t have a reason to be ecstatic.
I’ll say this much; this new staff will be spectacular – either in success or in failure. They obviously have an idea of where they want to end and have decided to take the shortest possible route, no matter how awkward the transition may be.
by Hooper on Apr 25, 2009 8:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I am delirious.
"Space is Deep."
by Tempestuous Binary on Apr 25, 2009 8:55 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Can we truly judge?
Just a thought, because I can see the points being made by both sides of the debate: Can we really judge the value of this draft until we see which 53 guys make the roster, which 8 make the practice squad, and how they all come together to implement the coaching of McD/McC/N?
Seems to me we’re kinda jumping the gun here.
by BShrout on Apr 25, 2009 8:56 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
absolutely we need to see them play...but in the meantime I will remain positive
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
by TD4HOF on Apr 25, 2009 8:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point...
We won’t know anything until after the season starts…and it may take several years to have a truly accurate perspective.
by anotherNYCbroncofan on Apr 26, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
At first I hated this draft. And after some alone time I started to think differently. I wasn’t mad at who we picked but who we didn’t pick. With 12 I wanted orakapo 18 and 37 I wanted ReyRey then with our other 2 second rounders I wanted Gilbert. Then I looked at who WE DID pick I completely changed my mind. Now after reading this I am really excited.
LET THE DRAFT BEGIN
by robbo650 on Apr 25, 2009 9:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I truly hope so, HT
I’m nervous, at best, about what we drafted. I thought the first round pick for Smith was a reach, and I’m not sold on McBath.
I hope these guys get after it on the field to allay my fears, but my fears shall remain until then. *crosses fingers until August. :)
We don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
by solace on Apr 25, 2009 9:10 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks mr professor :)
its kinda a puzzle…and…you are the puzzle master…way cool
MHR...and proud of it!
by MHRsGirl on Apr 25, 2009 9:11 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Hate to sound like Ghostbusters here...
But actually, I’m the gatekeeper.
lol
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO NO NO NO NO
Last I knew, you were a dude. That would make you the Keymaster, not the gatekeeper!!! Cmon HT!
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Apr 25, 2009 11:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!!
And now I’ll always picture you as Rick Moranis!!
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 26, 2009 12:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh well.
Just as a funny aside…
One nickname I have is “Egan”. I look (and sound) a lot like Harold Ramis. Harold was an actor and writer in Ghostbusters and Stripes.
I didn’t say “keymaster” because I didn’t want to confuse folks with the character from one of the Matrix sequels.
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 26, 2009 7:22 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
At first...
I thought, why’d they get him there? Why not that guy? Who? What? Why?
But then I recall that I don’t know the strategy, and I read this.
I likee the thought of a ball-hawking D, and the Os looking good.
Thanks HT!
by AllBroncsallday on Apr 25, 2009 9:15 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Would have picked USC LB Mauluaga
when he was available for our 3rd pick, alas. Overall, good draft with Moreno especially. Unsure about the rest since I have never about them before – at least we are not the Raiders
by cuseindahuse on Apr 25, 2009 9:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Not taking Rey Rey is the most positive part of the day IMO.
by jaffe28 on Apr 25, 2009 9:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
One must admit
there must be some reason so many LB needy teams passed him so far down the ladder.
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 9:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm telling you guys...
…something made his value fall like a stone.
I think a past indiscretion might have circulated with the teams.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
SAT or ACT score?
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking legal issues...
…that the college coaches shared with the pros. Just a hunch, based on his overt legal issues.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this explain why Cincy took him?
As I’ve said before… do they even do background checks?
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 10:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously...
I think it does. Cincy doesn’t seem averse to criminal activity (much like oakland).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My biggest problem with Rey has been discipline.
I think he’s undisciplined on the field and has an impulse control problem off it.
by jaffe28 on Apr 25, 2009 10:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
and it seems
that, to a lot of teams, undisciplined = project.
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 26, 2009 12:02 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted D.
I’m fine with Knowshon…although I don’t think we needed a RB.
Ayers is probably my favorite of the picks. However, I was really hoping for a NT or a true 3-4 DE.
I thought it was a mistake to trade a 1st rounder in a stronger draft class for a 2nd rounder is a weaker draft class. Also, I have major concerns about a 5’9 CBs ability to be succesfull in the NFL. It may have worked in the past; however, WR are getting so big at this point that I just can’t see a 5’9 CB being great.
The safety pick also baffled me as we already did so much in FA and the CB pick to fix up the secondary and relatively very little to fix our front seven. Plus, with both of our DB picks I think we passed on guys that could have been major impact players in the front seven.
The TE pick was just plain baffling to me. I mean, how often does McD really intend to run a 3 TE set? Enough to make it worth trading both of our 3rd rounders for the last pick of the 2nd round? Enough to continue to neglect our front seven? Just seemed like a strange pick to me…especially because he seems so similiar to Graham.
I wanted to fix the D line and we did nothing there (Ayers is saying the Broncos are indicating he’ll play OLB).
We really did very little to address our true NEEDS.
Nevertheless, nice summary HT and I appreciate the positive spin that you’re able to put on it.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Apr 25, 2009 9:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the mistake of trading next years 1st for this years 2nd is all the worse because we already started with ten picks this year (too many in my mind).
Also, many people say that we needed to fix our secondary because it was so bad; however, I’m a big believer that the lack of pressure from the front seven greatly contributed to the DBs’ struggles. We had two notorious ballhawks in Bailey and Bly…they were just made ineffective by QBs with waaaay too much time to let their WRs get open and find open targets. Hopefully Ayers and the scheme change can help get more pressure…but I would have liked to see this addressed more than they did.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Apr 25, 2009 9:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely concur
but I’m still excited about this year’s crop thus far, and hopeful about tomorrow.
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 9:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure our DL was that awful last year
Our LBs and Safeties were pretty bad, and I think they may have dragged down the overall D.
Also, our offense wasn’t the most help to the D in many of the losses last year.
by CoastalBronco on Apr 25, 2009 9:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But still Cookie....
5 picks on the first day! Who saw it coming?
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did.
I figured they’d do quite a bit of trading up with ten overall picks in the draft.
I’m certainly not dissapointed in the quantity…it’s more the quality that I’m concerned about. Well…not so much quality but rather the extreme overkill on some positions and the relative neglect at others.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Apr 25, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got me there.
I actually liked what Dallas and Cleveland did.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The key may be Quinn.
We won’t run a LOT of 3 TE sets, but we also won’t run many sets with a FB either. Expect a lot of runs out of 3 WR sets. This means no lead blocker. We’ll HAVE to have an elite RB, and we’ll need the best blocking TEs money can buy. (Remember, Graham came from NE before McDaniels did).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
a non kool-aid drinker here!!!
i’m lmao @ the bronco fans!!! moreno was a solid pick but the rest of their draft is comical! ayers is exactly what you already have here! undersized and offer no resistance against the run! hey bronco fans, ayers put up 13 reps at the combine so what tackle is he gonna whip? all he’ll be able to do is try to run around tackles to make plays and that’s fine but that’s what moss, dumerville and the rest of the non playmakers on the front seven do! the second round cb he drafted for next years 1st pick is just as bad as trading cutler! this team is a 4-6 win team and next years pick would be a top 5 pick! i seriously doubt if he was worth it! whether you fans want to admit it or not behind the raiders, everyone is now laughing at the broncos because all the non kool aid drinkers can clearly see that this new coach has set this franchise back 5-7 years!! infact, the broncos remind me of how the cardinals used to do things! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!
by lifelongcardfan on Apr 25, 2009 9:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The cards have one good year and now their fans think they can talk smack.
now that’s funny. Good luck when your 38 year old qb retires and boldin finally gets out….now make like Michael Jackson and beat it.
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
by TD4HOF on Apr 25, 2009 9:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
well-reasoned and supported views are always welcome, regardless of kool-aid consumption
but your comment is simply
by CoastalBronco on Apr 25, 2009 9:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to make an ass of yourself dude.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Apr 25, 2009 9:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey bro. You guys have problems too!
you have a way overpaid RB that is going to be hard to get rid of. Your team is treating of of the class acts of the NFL like crap by not giving him the money he earned. your defense was the reason you lost the superbowl. And kurt warner has one year left. Matt Leinart is NOT the answer. So good luck when you are stuck in the top 10 again in a couple years. cuz youll be there a while. btw, how many superbowls you guys got?!?!?!
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win"-Brandon Marshall
Neckbeard vs The Spleen: How better can this get?!?!
by broncoboy on Apr 25, 2009 9:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot the WR that would rather be a waiter than a Cardinal
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 9:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gosh buddy...
We’ve been to more Super Bowls than your team has gone to playoffs, and you’re talking smack?
Thanks for reminding me why we’ve only had three losing seasons in the past couple of decades. (It has to do with dumb opponents)
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...heckeled by a Card fan
That is new to me. LLC….drop the peyote and get out of the desert into some shade for a bit…you are friggin delusional. Like all good trolls you need to get yourself back in your cave ASAFP
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Apr 25, 2009 11:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
heckled by a cards fan
it’s kind of cute. Endearing.
I won’t want to say anything else. Hey man, long live the Cardinals dynasty!
"according to the map, we've only gone 4 inches"
by MikeD55 on Apr 25, 2009 11:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1000
Woooo yeah! Long live the Cardinals Dynas…..
… oops. I forgot. They LOST that game, didn’t they? ^^
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 26, 2009 12:04 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good but very risky
As the draft progressed I came to many of the same conclusion as the old coach did but unlike him I find it a source for concern rather than optimism. And the reason is that when you change the fundamental structure of the team, it’s underlying philosophy, there is one major area that always tends to lag. That’s scouting. I agree perfectly that McDaniels had a draft strategy and that he was successful in implementing it. But are these the right guys? That’s the $64,000 question.
While it may be true that in the short run McDaniel got what he wanted by offing Cutler, he’s really under the gun now. And I think it completely true he shot his wad in this draft. And given that scouting always tends to lag, in my humble opinion that was a risky thing to do. It’s especially risky given how difficult the heart of Denver’s schedule looks on paper this year. You are throwing these untested rookies into the cauldron. Because if Denver produces the same or worse record and the Bears go to the playoffs, Pat Bowlen has a major PR disaster on his hands.
In short, I see this entire draft now as a boom or bust decision on McDaniels part. That’s a risky move for a rookie coach. If he succeeds, Denver will be at his feet. But if he fails, well there’s always the Wade Phillps career path.
by Tuttifrutti on Apr 25, 2009 9:19 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
True...
If he succeeds, Denver will be at his feet. But if he fails, well there’s always the Wade Phillps career path.
No question. But frankly, that’s how it would have been without the offseason soap opera.
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 9:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness...
McDaniels didn’t “off” Cutler. Cutler demanded a trade, and refused to answer his phone. He “offed” himself.
McDaniels did manage to turn the situation into 5 picks on our first day. I’m siding with McD on this one.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 26, 2009 12:05 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+2
"Upon the instruments of death, the sunlight brightly gleams."
by Tempestuous Binary on Apr 26, 2009 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off topic
But did anyone watch the end of draft coverage on nfln? Was gruden high? Seriously guy was acting weird
LET THE DRAFT BEGIN
by robbo650 on Apr 25, 2009 9:19 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Gruden
was just feeling a bit like a fish out of water. He and Billick were both dying to be in a war room somewhere instead of on TV talking about other people’s picks.
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 9:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was exhausted.
It was kind of funny though. “Get that man a lozenge!!”
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
by papigrande on Apr 25, 2009 11:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm impressed that the man still has a larynx
for as much yelling as he’s done through the years!
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 26, 2009 12:06 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate fluff...
but the “big head” thing had me rolling! Very funny stuff after a long day!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 26, 2009 7:24 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have mixed feelings so far.
On one hand, I’m okay with the players we selected. They all have things they do well and I’m sure they were selected because McD saw them as a fit for what he wants to do system wise. HT’s interpretation of our strategy is as good as any and makes sense. I’ll reserve judgment on the players ’til they play.
On the other hand, I’m a big believer in maximizing the value of your picks and I don’t think we did that, especially in the second round. I feel like a player equivalent to Alphonso Smith (or Smith himself) would have fallen to us at 48. Sean Smith went much later than that and does everything that Smith does. Giving up a first round next year for a player or similar guy we could have gotten by staying put is silly. Even with the financial angle that many of your are touting, it’s still silly. That 1st could be a top end player next year or could turn into a ton of flexibility, like additional second or third rounders.
Trading up for Quinn is the same sort of thing. I am nearly positive that we could have stayed put and picked him with our first third rounder tomorrow. Getting back a fourth (the last one in the round) hardly makes up for tossing out a third rounder when we didn’t have to.
The players may turn out to be great, but that doesn’t excuse giving up value that you don’t have to.
by jaffe28 on Apr 25, 2009 9:19 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I like the picks, but I can’t help but wonder if we needed to trade up for them.
Also, I still would’ve preferred Unger to solidify the OL over McBath.
by CoastalBronco on Apr 25, 2009 9:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree to some of what you two are saying
I don’t know that we had to go about it the way we did. The thing I LOVE though is that the organization seems to have a clear vision of what they want to do. They very much seem like they picked the guys they wanted. That in my opinion bodes very well.
With last year’s draft being the exception (because I think we got very very lucky on some of our picks), the last bunch of drafts haven’t seemed like we had a clue of what we wanted to do.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Apr 25, 2009 11:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Lombardi, at the National Football Post, had Ayers to the Broncos @ 12 & Moreno @ 18, then had Smith at ~22. So by that measurement Moreno & Ayers were spot on & Smith was a good discount, plus we get the value of having him this year rather than depending on a lower tier player. One thing we learned last year is that depth is critical.
We also have the opportunity to give 4 players (all but Ayers) a chance to play large roles but to develop. This should put us in a good position as our older FA pickups slow down (Dawkins, Goodman, Graham, Jordan) this or next year.
by NY Broncos fan on Apr 25, 2009 9:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow! Glad you found that.
Good call!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here hoping we draft a LB Sunday
Maybe the Broncos see something I don’t. Don’t see how converting our current roster into hybrid LBs will be effective. At least to raise the level of competition upon our roster, we need to select LBs…
Did I mention LBs?! : )
by cuseindahuse on Apr 25, 2009 9:46 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you have a good grasp of our current LBs
DJ Williams
Wesley Woodyard
Boss Bailey
Spencer Larsen
Louis Green
Mario Hagan
Andra Davis
Those are Linebackers…this doesn’t include the people we have to be DE / OLB.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Apr 25, 2009 11:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many sacks did they have?
1…2 on avg. at most. Were they able to penetrate the D link and plug gaps on running plays? We need to draft our future Mobley. Meklenberg, or Romo Cop.
by cuseindahuse on Apr 26, 2009 8:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our LB play last year was hugely downgraded by coaching...
and the 4-3 system they were playing in. Plus, we significantly upgraded run defense just by getting rid of Webster and replacing him with Davis. Our LB schemes last year were awful, and with four LBs instead of three they will have more opportunities to make plays.
by anotherNYCbroncofan on Apr 26, 2009 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You guys are such Homers
They traded their 1st round pick next year for a reach at CB in the 2nd round.
1st round pick in 2010. That’s a top 5 pick. With the schedule they have next year they win no more than 4 games. A top 5 pick for #35 come on. Defend that.
"Better move your rental cars, I am about to take BP."
-Glendon Rusch
by Hizilla on Apr 25, 2009 10:02 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
well i think the trade was for the later of the of the 2 first rounders.
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
by TD4HOF on Apr 25, 2009 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
we'll be in the top 5?
so the Fauxland Faiders must be number 1.
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
by Joe Medina on Apr 25, 2009 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy.
1) Top five pick? That’s called speculation.
2) The pick was a steal, not a reach. Denver had him pegged as a first rounder THIS year. Another commenter added (a few minutes ago) that Mike Lombardi had Smith going at 22.
Yes, the schedule is brutal. Before the draft I wrote that it’s very possible the team breaks even this year. But we aren’t competing for a great schedule, or a lot of wins. We just need to beat our divison rivals’ records.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 25, 2009 10:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that is an excellent point.
And I think we did the best in the AFC West by far today.
by jaffe28 on Apr 25, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs