The elephant in the room . . .
by Brian Shrout on Apr 25, 2009 6:49 PM MDT
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PrintIsn't analyzing the actual draft choices made fun?
I've read responses that range from being of the opinion that Coach McD is the greatest football mind to hit Denver in quite a while to the one that says we need to jettison him before the weekend's over. I've seen arguments both for and against each of the picks made so far, which has, in turn, shaped each of our opinions of Coach McD's competency.
Then it occurred to me: aren't we sort of like the blind men trying to identify the elephant only by touch. It seems obvious to me that:
Coach McD, OC McCoy, and DC Nolan have a very specific vision of where they are going to take the Broncos. They have very definite opinions as to what types of players they need in each position to bring that vision to life. The choices on which veterans to keep, which to trade, which to release, as well as which players to draft this weekend are all predicated on that vision.
I'm not conviinced that we as fans have a full understanding of the vision that is driving Dove Valley. Nor am I convinced (and I may be going against conventional thinking here) that we have any right to have that vision explained to us in detail at this time. That to me would be equivalent to Mike Shanahan explaining in detail during a news conference on Tuesdays, what each of his first fifteen scripted plays were going to be on Sundays.
So, until Coach McD, McCoy and Nolan are able to get the players who will make up the roster in place, until they have been able to teach them the new offense and defense, until those players have been able to come together, learn together, gel, and put those schemes to effective use, we will have no valid basis for judging decisons that we don't fully understand.
Has Coach McD made unpopular choices? Sure he has. The nature of football is that we all have our favorite players and our view of how things should be done. And when what the coach does impinges on our perspective, we are unhappy and unwiling to support him. Has he made choices we don't understand? Absolutely; we don't have his full vision sitting in front of us. And given the ameobic nature of his offense and defense, it makes sense to get as many players who are versatile as possible (I've heard both those terms applied to Moreno and Smith today).
I've heard it said that Coach McD is untrustworthy and that the players left around cannot trust him. Those statements, IMHO, run counter to what has been expressed by players in interviews so far in this off-season. There seems to be an air of excitement, confidence and anticipation in the player's words and tones of voice.
So, I for one, am planning to suspend judgement until AFTER the 2009 season has had a chance to play out. And, I'm planning to do what I've done since 1969 when my parents moved to Denver: root for the players, coaches and fans of the Broncos, irregardless of whether we're great, or lousy.
GO Broncos!!!!!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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how do we know what players he needs if we don't know the plan
Moreno in 2009! - Check
Mays in 2010!
ty
and your question fits the point perfectly — we don’t know the plan, so we can’t know what players he needs/wants, and we won’t know until 2009 has played itself out. Right now, it’s all just so much speculation
by Brian Shrout on Apr 25, 2009 7:10 PM MDT up reply actions
oh and btw, i've enjoyed reading your comments throughout the day
by Brian Shrout on Apr 25, 2009 7:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Kudos!
I love this post, man. Thank you so much for this.
"The mystic chords of fandom, stretching from every trade and signing to every active account and guest all over this broadband, will yet swell the chorus of union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature". ~ Abraham Lincoln-ish
"The tree of victory must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of quarterbacks and coaches". ~ Thomas Jefferson-ish
+10000000000000000000000000 Rec'd
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
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Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
slurp!!!
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 10:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Excellent post B and rec'd!
Why have we so many doubters? Why are os many of the negative Ned’s people I have never seen here before?
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
Because:
MHR has had the audacity to take the position that all opinions are welcome and will be received and responded to gracefully so long as they are presented in a civil manner?
Kudos to MHR for being the best Broncos site anywhere!
by Brian Shrout on Apr 25, 2009 7:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Great post BShrout!
As for the new guys being negative…it is up to us old timers to help them realize there is a good way to be negative and a bad way. The bad way is to be antagonistic with comments about McDummies need to be hung or some damn thing. The good way is to come out with your opinion and back it up with your intelligent reasons. People won’t necessarily agree with you, but their response will be less antagonistic if you come out and insult their favorite player or a coach they happen to have faith in. ;-)
Just my two sense. I have my own theory on where we are going and I like it. Not time to share though…maybe later this week in a Fanpost. Nite all!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
look forward to your analysis zappa
You always have great stuff to share.
by Brian Shrout on Apr 25, 2009 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Good point Zappa!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
Besides
I actually enjoy the “negative” posts that are well-thought and insightful. Keeps me honest in my comments and puts ballast in my fandom.
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Balance
I like to see it. Most of the commentators are too negative, most of the main writers of the post are like Bronco cheerleaders. I wish people would give us both positives and negatives.
I see this draft as very mixed. Clearly the Broncos got lots of choices, but that was due to the Cutler debacle. The draft picked some real opportunists on defense, which is good, you need ballhawkers. My concern has to do with the guts of the defense. I think lots of people we hoped would fall to us did not.
It is fun to see the Broncs pick a running back early on. I remember some ones of old who did fine for a couple of years, like Otis Armstrong, Clinton Portis and the guy we got in the supplemental draft that I am temporarily blocking on. I like having a stud in the backfield. Doesn’t look like there is much room left for the holdovers.
by Baltimore Bronco on Apr 25, 2009 8:04 PM MDT reply actions
Nice Post. Rec'd
I’m not convinced that we as fans have a full understanding of the vision that is driving Dove Valley. Nor am I convinced (and I may be going against conventional thinking here) that we have any right to have that vision explained to us in detail at this time
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I think that this moved to the heart of the matter. I’m very optomistic by nature, but I don’t need to be to feel comfortable about the draft. Before it, McD said that the Broncos big board only had a couple of handfuls of names. That was it. He was going to get those guys, and that’s what he’s doing.
Perhaps he’s lost it so quickly, but I don’t have reason to think so. I do have reason to think that it’s outside of my ‘pay grade’ as we used to say (and some still do, and they know who I mean). I’m looking forward to the outcome. If it’s sub par, they’ll fix it. If it’s laudable, they’re going to be great. And it it’s somewhere in the middle -
It would be better than last year. That was terrible, record or no. I want to see what happens when McBath learns form Hill and Barrett from Dawkins, Smith from Bailey. And I want to see Hillis and Moreno out there, together or in sequence, and see someone trying to stop us. Dominant? Perhaps not. But exciting? Heck Yes!
Hillis in '09
by Doc Bear on Apr 25, 2009 8:16 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Didn't we have a similar discussion a while back? 5 + 3 + 3 = A potent offense!
5 = Best O-Line in the NFL
3 = Orton/Simms, Marshall, and Royal
3 = Pick your other poisons – highlighted by Hillis and Moreno!
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 25, 2009 9:51 PM MDT up reply actions
I have a feeling we are bringing a team NO ONE is expecting. I will go one further Bear....Dominant and confusing to the opposition? Dead straight!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
by boydy2669 on Apr 25, 2009 8:22 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
You know I love ya man but...
please take it easy on the kool-aid, I’d hate to see you wake up with a hang-over. Seriously there is reason to be excited but you know what happens when you take it a little too far!!!
The trick to carrying on is to not get carried away!!!
Do have to say that HCMcD sure had a bunch of surprises today. Don’t know how much the X factor had to do with it but this guy has a vision and he is going after it. AND that has my curiosity as to how this team is developing at an all time high. Can’t wait for game 1 of the season because you really can’t tell much from pre-season even though the pre-season is fun to watch.
by lovewatchinthegame on Apr 25, 2009 9:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Thats cool mate. i just see some cutting edge stuff going on.....Some major thinking outside the box that a lot of other teams AINT doing.....nothing to do with kool aid.....I am really happy as we stand now!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
We have to wait 3 years
My projections are influenced by the pundits and what they feel is needed for their perception of our offense and defense. The Pats have had very poor initial grades by these pundits immediately after drafts but very high ones 3 yrs later. Let’s all hope that is the way our draft goes. We have to trust MacD and Xanders at this time and see what happens this fall.
I've given up on the pundits LOL
I’ve used the MSM pundits for years to build my own mock draft for the Broncos, and nearly every year I’ve been dead wrong. LOL.
But I do agree that the pattern in the NFL is that it is the 3rd year that makes or breaks most players.
So, for now, like you, I’m simply going to trust that the coaches have a plan and know what they’re doing and that it will all work out.
by Brian Shrout on Apr 25, 2009 9:00 PM MDT up reply actions
you guys are my pundits now!
I’ll take MHR over MSM any day for anything!
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on Apr 25, 2009 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions
leave the pundits
for politics. this is football. any guy that played the game is all of a sudden considered an “expert”, but it’s not necessarily because he knows the game, it’s because he is marketable. Hello Shannon Sharpe, Hello Deion Sanders, oh, what’s that? Hello Troy Aikman!
They aren’t necessarily smart, but they will make you tune in won’t they?
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
EARLY IMPRESSIONS
My quick take — prior to today, I came to see this draft as shaping up a draft to help the front 3 and the DBs. The problem was that we were going to need luck if we were going to find help up front, since the best NTs and 5-tech DEs weren’t going to be available by the time we picked, and there was a sharp drop-off after the top players were gone. LB, which had been a focus before the scheme change, wasn’t going to be a focus, except for possible “Elephants,” and that’s actually what we got in Ayers, who will also function as a DE a substantial amount of the time.
The players we drafted fit our needs pretty well. We would liked to draft Raji or Jackson but there weren’t many other players who fit the criteria we were looking for. We actually did far better than many people believe, and it did come at a price, but that’s also where these players were projected to go.
- #1 RB, Knowshon Moreno. Not much we need to say here. A perfect fit for Denver’s ZB scheme.
- #1 Elephant/hybrid, Robert Ayers. There are other OLB/DE hybrids but the real question is whether they can make the switch to OLB. Ayers is a true hybrid and not a tweener. Unlike the other hybrids he can actually stop the run and play DE in a 3-4, and he has the speed to play OLB.
- #3/4 CB, Alphonso Smith. He’s the top CB after Jenkins and V Davis. Sean Smith could be considered the 3rd best CB but he’s in a slightly different category because of his size. And this class was deep at CB.
- #3 S. Darcel McBath had moved up into the top group of Safeties although most people weren’t aware of this.
He’s at the top of the Free Safety group, but we probably would have taken a SS such as Delmas or Chung if they’d been available — but they were not.
- #1 blocking TE, Richard Quinn. Pettigrew is a better all-around TE but Quinn is an exceptional blocker.
by Colinski on Apr 26, 2009 12:05 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Colinski
I like them all…great first day. Ballhawks, a versatile lineman, a TE who paired with Graham will be devastating blockers for Knowshon and Hillis. Things are looking up!
Moreno in 2009! - Check
Mays in 2010!
I'm so glad someone finally said what I have been thinking for weeks! And you did it much better than I seem able, so, Thank you Colinski!!!
This is a weeak draft for Dts & NTs, you’ve even seen it in the mocks,we’re all looking for that Diamond in the rough, cuz there aren’t enough great ones to go around!!! I believe that McD & Co. saw some things in that mini-camp that pleased them defensively (D-Line), & are shaping this team to win, now & for the long haul!!! I AM EXCITED that we actually have a plan & Coaches that are implementing it!!! GO BRONCOS!!!
as far as this draft went
It was going to be very tough to find NTs and 5-techs. Here’s a list. We were going to get the impact players in the early going or we weren’t going to get them at all.
I can see room for a couple of DLs but I see as much room for the remaining six picks on offense.
Agreed and Rec'd
I can’t wait for the season, cause I love the versatility and toughness we added today.
Particularly a big fan of Alphonso Smith. Also Richard Quinn has some very underrated hands.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Preach it, Brother
Couldn’t agree more.
I am an idiot walking a tightrope of fortune and fame
I am an acrobat swinging trapezes through circles of flame
If you've never stared off in the distance, then your life is a shame
and though I'll never forget your face,
sometimes i can't remember my name.
--Counting Crows, "Mrs. Potter's Lullaby"
by PredominantlyOrange on Apr 26, 2009 1:18 AM MDT reply actions
I agree
Even Raji was not being called a 3 or 4 down player. There were no true nose tackles really available.
What we have between draftees, FAs and those vets still on the team are guys who can play various roles in both a 4-3 and a 3-4. We now have for the first time in a long time a legitimate cover safety or safties. We have some people who are proven tacklers and we have some leaders.
MdDaniels likes to mix up the offense by attacking each weeks oppoent in a different way each time and having the ability to make adjustments in the game itself. He now has the talent mix to do that.
It also looks like he has the talent mix to do the same thing with the defense. Move people around. Create new looks every week. Present a profile to other teams that will make it difficult to plan for what they might see from week to week.
I cannnot wait for preseason to see the progression of this team. And if Ayers can sack Cutler a couple of times or hurry him into a couple of interceptions in that 3rd preseason game…. well all the better.
I think Moreno and Ayers are starters from opening day. The rest of these that make the team will be contributors early and often. We may have some quality DBs end up on the practice squad as well.
"Now we have them where we want them"
-Kieth Bishop - On the Denver 2 yard line, Cleveland Ohio, 1987
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