Robert Ayers - Why so few sacks in college?

by British Bronco on Apr 26, 2009 3:52 AM MDT

OK I liked most of our picks but I really am struggling with Ayers. Help me out here

A chap who is supposed to be one of the key men for getting at the QB he only got 3 sacks in his senior year. Now I don't know college football very well but that is not good is it?

Are there any Tennesse fans out there in Bronco land that can reassure me here? This guy has workout wonder written all over him.

I also notice this grading from nfl.com - OK one opinion - but it hardly inspires confidence.

Pass Rush: Ayers is really not a good pass rusher, more the type that will pressure the pocket than seal the deal and close on the QB. He lacks that explosive first step off the snap, but can vary his speed to get the offensive tackle off kilter. In 2008, he showed better body control and hand usage to avoid blocks and work around them to put pressure on the pocket. He still needs to utilize his array of moves more often in order to be effective. He has developed enough quickness to pressure, but has problems when he has to play off blocks when working inside (strength issues). GRADE: 6.1

Closing on the QB: Ayers can put good pressure on the pocket once he clears his blocker, but does take a wide loop at times. He needs to play with more consistent aggression, as he gets too reliant on his hand punch and can be locked out when that fails. He can deliver a knockout blow on the quarterback when coming off the edge, but just lacks the sudden moves to close and his adequate initial step is not going to have great success beating beats the quicker blockers off the snap at the NFL level. GRADE: 5.4

Instincts/Recognition: Overall, Ayers is a good athlete, who looks to be developing physically, but still needs strength development. He is better locating the ball on the move than when playing in-line, where he can beat double teams, but will get taken down due to poor awareness sidestepping low blocks. His production is decent against the pass, but better against the run. He needs to locate the ball better when working down the line, but when he gets into the backfield, he can zero in on his target. He has improved his ability to sniff out the play, but struggles vs. the double teams in passing situations due to just average overall body strength. GRADE: 5.5

I'm very concerned by this pick. BPA average had him around #30. I think we really reached here. I would have been happier seeing him taken in the second.

Just as well I love the Moreno pick isn't it!

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Comments

don't worry

you’re not the only one that doesn’t understand the pick. he seems to fly in the face of much logic — hes not the BPA at 18, he’s a character risk, he’s being counted on to gain 20 pounds and remain effective AND start, he’s a 4-3 conversion to 3-4 and he’s one of those risers after the season ends. Remind me of…hm, oh yeah, Jarvis Moss!

I hope he pans out, but boy am I confused with choice.

by thedoctor on Apr 26, 2009 4:04 AM MDT reply actions

Young man,

A 2 gap DE is not supposed to get sacks. He is supposed to occupy the OL so that LBs can get through. I know you hate everything Denver does (there’s a difference between being critical and being negative), but I don’t know anyone who thinks Ayers should be penetrating the line as a 2 gap player.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Apr 26, 2009 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions

you totally have me pegged wrong. I am not a Denver hater, I am a fan — a diehard one. I didn’t appreciate you bullying me for expressing my displeasure with the moves yesterday either. How am I remotely deserving of being threatened with bans for calling a move stupid? Hopefully my mega-long recced fanpost with deeper reasoning and excellent discussion will convince you that I am indeed more than this negative nancy straw man you’ve created.

My concerns are real and I guess all I can say is that I’m sorry they interfere with your impression of things so far. But that’s what good discussion does, it changes our view of reality.

As to this particular response, where in my comment did I say anything about sacks or line penetration? I’m well aware of what 3-4 DEs are supposed to do. Perhaps the OP is confused, but I am not. And the OP’s questions are good too — Ayers played in a 4-3 in college, no? So why not any production?

Look, you are certainly the expert here and I just a simple fan, but my concerns with Ayers I actually listed, what do you think of those? I’ll quote it again:

hes not the BPA at 18, he’s a character risk, he’s being counted on to gain 20 pounds and remain effective AND start, he’s a 4-3 conversion to 3-4 and he’s one of those risers after the season ends. Remind me of…hm, oh yeah, Jarvis Moss!

by thedoctor on Apr 26, 2009 9:25 AM MDT up reply actions

Honestly.

He’s the one pick I just didn’t like. I’m not in love with a couple of others, but this one I just don’t like. I’m keeping an open mind, though.

"The mystic chords of fandom, stretching from every trade and signing to every active account and guest all over this broadband, will yet swell the chorus of union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature". ~ Abraham Lincoln-ish

"The tree of victory must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of quarterbacks and coaches". ~ Thomas Jefferson-ish

by ejruiz on Apr 26, 2009 4:53 AM MDT reply actions

TFL?

Perhaps it was a scheme thing, or a double team thing, but he did rack up plenty of tackles for loss.

"The tree of victory must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of quarterbacks and coaches". ~ Thomas Jefferson-ish

by ejruiz on Apr 26, 2009 4:56 AM MDT reply actions

His Learning Curve was slow at Tennessee

He was considered to great prospect coming out of highschool but struggled in college for a couple years before finding his groove. I kind of like think that he will be playing 5-tech if he bulks up a about 20 pounds. In his interview he was saying though that the Martindale the LB coach was recruting him so maybe he will switch to JACK OLB. He just has to have a faster learning curve in the NFL for whatever position he is playing cause we still need front 7 help.

by maritimebronco on Apr 26, 2009 6:11 AM MDT reply actions

I read somewhere that Tenn

puts a lot of emphasis on seniority and that he should’ve started his junior year….

Beware the wrath of a patient adversary.

John C. Calhoun --

by bcfunk on Apr 26, 2009 6:58 AM MDT reply actions

His impressiveness is in being unimpressive...

After watching highlight reels on Ayers, it’s obvious he can fill gaps, get into the backfield and bring his target straight to the ground. But what impressed me most was that after his hit, he would stand up and immediately walk back to the huddle… like he has been there before.

He may not appear impressive because he doesn’t make himself appear impressive with showmanship. I welcome that.

by apelikejay on Apr 26, 2009 7:22 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs

Easy answer....

Sacks isn’t his job. As a 2 gap DE his job is to tie up defenders so that the LBs can get through. He’s also going to stop the run.

This is going to be a different line than Denver fans are used to. The front 3 occupy the OL and threaten penetration. The LBs are the rushers.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Apr 26, 2009 8:44 AM MDT reply actions

Is he a Two gap DE?

In his interview the guy that interview he was talking about Martindale the LB coach so maybe he is a JACK LB?

by maritimebronco on Apr 26, 2009 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions

OK thanks HT - that makes sense -

although I thought 3-4 ends had to be bigger?

by British Bronco on Apr 26, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions

Couple guys he reminds me of

Ty warren in New England not much of a numbers guy but takes on a couple of defenders every time so the linebackers can get through. Shaun Ellis of the jets another guy who does pretty much the same thing. Stats can lead you down the wrong road sometimes. College stats often don’t mean a lot espescially with tweener guys like this.

THIS ONE'S FOR JOHN!

by IamMileHigh on Apr 26, 2009 11:07 AM MDT reply actions