… I thought it was Lowsy.

Pope & Lowry

We are underdogs this year. I love it! Play with the big ole chip on the shoulder please!

is hardly mid 2nd.

though, that the defensive backfield need was created by the “previous administration” as it were? The fact that they both signed new guys as FA’s and drafted several more could also be seen as evidence that the defensive backfield was abysmal last year. There is a new GM and a new coach, and they inherited that disaster. Champ Bailey was the only bright spot and he was injured part of last year. We all agree that Dawkins was a good signing. But I’d argue that the lack of talent at safety especially last year, and the lack of depth at corner was due to some bad acquisitions the previous few years. I do like Josh Barrett but I can’t blame the new coaches and GM for wanting to restock that cabinet, because it was a mess last year.

1. What would you have done to fix the secondary considering what was available in FA and in the draft?

This is not a slam or anything, just curious on how you would have handled the situation if you were in charge. I liked what we did in that aspect, I however am not a fan of the pick up of all the RB’s, especially with Knowshon on board, but really, how much of a cap hit are we really going to take when some of these guys are issued walking papers? From what I remember of the signings, not really a whole lot.

BtD

I can certainly see your view point. over all I am happy with the draft, it looks like the broncs picked up some nice players that will contribute this year or the next. While I dont think all the trading up was “horrible” it did strike me as being a little jumpy and hair trigger. Maybe it was the rush of being in control of his first draft. Or pehaps it was the result of their approach of having fewer players on their big board. Fewer options make you more desperate to get the ones you do have rated well. My thought is that you should do what it takes to get the players you want. If the trading a first round pick for Alphonso Smith is the worst mistake Mc D ever makes in the draft I can live with that. I remember Shannahan wasting four or five first round picks on guys like Lelie, Middlebrooks, etc. No doubt McD made some mistakes this draft but nothing egregious.

He signed those players because he would rather have them for depth rather than Young (Injury Prone), Hall (Fumble problems) and Torain (Injury history – will be around but can’t be depended on)…so

The signing of those guys were as if McDaniels said – I don’t have any running backs except Hillis, so lets restock the whole unit and let the best survive.

Frist, just because there is a defensive player on the board, doesn’t mean he can come into this system and be better than guys already here. All the players that were lousy are gone. We have added at least 3 players by FA to the defensive line and they all look like they can play and be productive. Why do another desperation draft like the one that gave us Moss and Crowder?

I like what McDaniels did and I agree on the ability of the players that were left. There wasn’t impact help at those picks. Moreno on the other hand will be an immediate impact player this year in this system. The FA signings were made knowing that we needed to upgrade the RB position, but they are all role players. The by committee approach would have worked for this year, but now it just got eons better.

We have added some bee for the defensive line with some UDFA signings that may work, but if they don’t we have not given jp the farm to get them. Everyone of these draft picks is quality that has a chance to come in and compete right away.

More than one expert has said that trading up to get Smith was a value pick. I love the looks of the guy. He’s a player. We added depth to the offense, young depth to the dfensive backfield, talent to the special teams and now we are working to improve the the DL still. Ayers is a monster. Apparently he ate Oher alive in the Senior Bowl and everyone thinks he is a top shelf left tackle. His highlights show he can rush from the edge, inside the tackle and even on stunts inside the guard. He can shed blocks to make the tackle and his motor seems to be full out all the time.

Signing leaders to a backfield that was bereft of talent was the best move of FA IMHO. You don’t start the season with rookies at safety and corner in the NFL if you want to win. But we got olid back up for them if they go down. These guys are brigth, talented and they will be learning from the best on the field. There is no contradiction to signing leaders and rookies to the same position.

You aren’t suggesting Dalton and Hill play on special teams I assume. Or were you happy with that part of our game last season. ST has been as much a need as the defense has. McDaniels is building a solid foundation here and with a group that is going to be good this year.

RE #2 –
It seems like I’ve heard this point made a 100+ times by a lot of people. I don’t understand this argument at all. First off, I doubt if there were no RB free agent acquisitions, you would be any happier about the Knowshon pick. Second, a lot of the RB’s we had last year were not very good. Why wouldn’t we try to bring in some new talent, FA’s and draft picks? Third, this is the NFL, just because we sign someone, doesn’t mean we have to honor the contract, or even pay them a dime outside of the signing bonus, if there even was a signing bonus, so what is the big fuss about the FA’s? We bring back last years group, a few new FA’s, and a couple of rookies and let them compete for the roster spots.

If there is some fundamental issue that I’m missing here regarding free agents, please explain it to me because I don’t see the problem with bringing in the new blood.

Running on three hours of sleep, and haven’t done as much research here…I’ll put more up something if I have it:

Regarding the secondary, I can’t speak for other members of the secondary, but I seem to recall that Dawkins contract was a five-year deal…but was structured in such a way that he could be released with very little penalty after the first two years (at which point, Champ’s contract is either up or nearly up…I believe it will be done).

Also, Chibronx makes some points in this post that suggest that the biggest issue with the defense may NOT have been the defensive line. Don’t get me wrong, nobody will confuse Denver’s front 7 with an elite one just yet…but there were a disproportionate number of “long” runs. (My question there is: did those “long” runs go down in proportion when Webster was out and both Larsen and Woodyard were in…might need to research that.) It may be that a more competent group of tacklers in the BACK 8 may do more for Denver than a single lineman could do.

That wasn’t as coherent as I’d hoped. I need tea.

We traded next years 1st for this years high second, not mid second. Next year first round picks are worth this years high 2nd rounders each and every draft year. We didn’t get screwed on that deal.

We traded 2 3rds for a the last pick in the 2nd and a 4th, not just for a 64th as you say we did.

It’s okay to be upset at these moves, just please be accurate when you express your displeasure. Trying to exaggerate the facts to support your view point is misleading to those who don’t know the true facts and invalidates your argument somewhat in the eyes of those who do.

But following every other team that follows the other will…People don’t want to be challenged to think, they want things how they are fed to them. No different.

Firstly, Casserly was just on TV defending the deal, so this so-called consensus opinion of experts (ex-jocks are experts??!!) doesn’t hold water.

The reason I jumped in is because what’s being assumed here is that there’s an even playing field and that all trades occur on this field. Trade terms vary with 1 – initiator v. respondent, 2 – time, discounting for future value, 3 – willingness v. recalcitrant. This is just my list, off the top of my head, but they’re all verifiable.

Our trade terms in this draft WEREN’T different than some teams, but teams like New England, and others, were able to obtain more favorable terms. WHY? Probably because they either didn’t ‘need’ to trade or weren’t the “initiator” of the trade. There are also some other factors, such as actually having picks available for trade, but the playing field is not level, and comparisons between trades that assume there’s a common rate of exchange are misleading.

Take a look at the trades, HERE.

its a decent site and all but after awhile i started to strongly dislike everything Florio posted
thank god for the MHR community

Hi Zogernaut, thanks for being a fan!

1. Well, i disagree with them. I don’t think they’re omniscient. :)
2. Things do change, but when there’s so much at stake I hope for better foresight and planning. That’s what it indicates to me.
3. OH GOD HE SKIPPED ME!!! ;)
4. AHHH AGAIN THIS IS LIKE A BAD DREAM GAME OF UNO
5. I get it, but they completely overpaid. They could have packaged a 3rd and our 2nd, for example, and been overpaying via the draft point chart still. Was Seattle guaranteed to take him? They could have tried next pick down if they refused. It’s just poor negotiation and valuation of the future, imo.

I’ll respond to number 5. How in the world do you spend a first rounder on a player that’s projected to only play on third down when you could have used next year’s first rounder and another first rounder to get BJ Raji. I’m tired of hearing the same old chorus “Our Coaches didn’t evaluate him that highly”. Really? Why did he get drafted so high and receive such high marks from the draft “experts”. When does the coaching staff stop getting free passes? They’ve done nothing to prove their ability to evaluate talent (just like me) so why can’t we criticize them for not addressing what everyone else in the NFL seems to think is their biggest weakness; the defensive line.

McDaniels said in his interview, why add a player just because they have DT or DE next to their name? Was there really anything in this draft that was better than what we already had at those positions?

For a first time poster, I really dig your opinions and unabashed homer-ism. Just like me. What’s the point in getting caught up in all the negativity. Oh they didn’t do this, they didn’t do that. Well, it’s done. Get over it. If you don’t like it, lump it, as far as I’m concerned. I’m on board with the new administration until they prove that they don’t know what they are doing. And who am I, at this point to say that they don’t?

I’m excited for the changes this team is going through and hope to God for a more competitive team next year. That’s it. I don’t care if we lose 10 games, I just want them all to be close losses, no more of this 41-2 bullsh*t. :)

Who’s to say Alphonso Smith doesn’t come in and beat Andre’ Goodman for the starting spot across from Champ? Now, I hope someone doesn’t write “well, why did they sign Goodman if they knew they were going to draft Smith” – the answer to that would be that you don’t sign free agents having any clue who you will draft. There are too many ways the draft could play out. Just like B.J. Raji being taken before Denver had a chance to get him. What? Jacksonville wanted to trade down? How does anyone know that? Maybe they did earlier last week, but maybe once the first 2 OTs went, they decided to stick at #8 so they could get their man.

Look, we don’t have to assume that McDaniels and Xanders are right in everything they do, but I think it’s fair to presume they consider other possibilities, perhaps even pursue them. So many people assume the trades are there to be had, but that is often not really the case. Just like Denver had opportunities to move down but didn’t – are other fans elsewhere saying “why the heck didn’t we trade up to 12?”

Sorry, CB – I actually meant to put the “Fun” in quotations. Whoops.

Nothing else to add here.

And tell me the 2008 Broncos deserved to win 8 games. For me, they overachieved well above their talent level. The 2009 Broncos can win 8 games and also be a major improvement over 2008.