My Post-Draft Opus
Unlike much of my writing, this is not going to go at things in a humorous or contrarian sort of way. I'm going to go at the Broncos draft with an "at the same time" mindset that reflects my general mixed feelings about what the Broncos did. Basically I'm gonna put down the Kool-Aid while hoping not to slide into negativity. I'm also going to make some general draft observations that don't necessarily have to do with the Broncos.
GENERAL DRAFT OBSERVATIONS
1. The Raiders, specifically Al Davis, are crazy. I seriously considered putting DHB in as the Raiders pick here in my mock and then decided that even Al couldn't be that insane. How you don't get more value for the #7 pick is beyond me. If you like DHB better than Crabtree that's fine, but how you don't recognize that you can have him 15 or 20 picks later is beyond me. Even if you give a value discount, say by letting Philly come up to take Crabtree by swapping the 21st pick and their second rounder you still pick up value and get your guy. And don't get me started on their 2nd round pick. The guy could've been theirs in the fifth round and people still would've been thinking it was a slight reach. I never thought I'd say this, but I am starting to feel sorry for Raiders fans. And I'm sad that a great rivalry is losing it's edge because of the senility of one man.
2. Three of the biggest reaches in the first round were by our division rivals. I am not going to fault the Chiefs much for taking Tyson Jackson where they did because he was clearly the best 3-4 DE in the draft, and while they could've had him 5-10 picks later they probably couldn't find someone to come up for their pick. Larry English at 16 for the Chargers makes me smile. He could likely have been had somewhere in the 2nd round and frankly looks like another Jarvis Moss to me. How Everette Brown fell to the second round and this guy goes 16 is beyond me. The Raiders I've already discussed.
3. In terms of the Broncos draft, my biggest problem was that we also didn't maximize the value of the picks we had. More on this with my breakdown of the specific picks. At the same time, I am pretty sure that we had a better draft than anyone else in our division.
4. What is it with the Bengals? Do they intentionally look for the biggest character risks in the draft? Andre Smith is a talent and no doubt, but the guy is coming into a situation that is likely to make him a bust. I'm so happy for Michael Oher that the Bengals didn't take him. As far as the Bengals in the 2nd round go, they and Maualuga deserve each other. One of the most positive developments of the Broncos draft, IMO, is that Rey Rey is not in orange and blue. Frankly, I consider him to be a more talented version of Nate Webster on the field with the added problem of being a bad risk off the field and a potential disaster in the locker room.
5. The Bills had an iffy first round. Aaron Maybin is not going to contribute until he's been in an NFL strenght and conditioning program for at least two seasons. He may have first round potential but he's a second or third rounder in terms of what he's going to give to the team over the first few seasons on the roster. Wood is a good pick though I'm surprised they didn't address LT.
6. I don't like the Lions draft. Stafford may be a stud, but the probabilities (thanks HT :) ) for first round QBs make this a huge risk. Give me Curry, J. Smith, or Monroe. Much better chance they start early and contribute for a long time. And how in the world you pass on Michael Oher in the 20s is beyond me. When a top-ten talent drops to you and will greatly improve the probability that your new franchise player won't turn into Tim Couch or David Carr you take him. I like Pettigrew but this was a bad idea.
7. How does Ozzie Newsome always manage to come up with a great value pick at a position of need. Oher is likely going to be one of the steals of the draft.
8. The Jets sure didn't give up that much to get to the #5 pick. At the same time, the Browns did alright for themselves. Kind of a win-win IMO.
9. Something very weird happened in the Broncos draft that I'm sure a number of you experienced as well. Three times in this draft, the player I thought the Broncos should pick when they went on the clock were the next pick after we passed on them. Max Unger went #49, Sammie Lee Hill went #115, and A.Q. Shipley went #226. Not sure what it means but it was kind of disconcerting.
10. The first-round picks that I really liked (not counting the Broncos). Jacksonville getting Monroe at #8 who will start somewhere on their o-line for ten years. Michael Crabtree to the 49ers at #10 will help their marginal QBs and rub it in Al Davis' face for a decade. With rare discipline, the Redskins scored great value with Orakpo at #13. Maclin at #19 gives McNabb another dynamic option. Alex Mack to the Browns at #21 is the kind of boring but solid pick that leads to winning teams. Michael Oher will be a steal for the Ravens at #23. Though everyone and their mom married the Steelers to Mack, Ziggy Hood is a good consolation prize who will be developed to start at 3-4 defensive end.
11. Did I say the Raiders were crazy? Yes? Sorry to repeat, but seriously. THE RAIDERS ARE EFFING CRAZY!!!
ANALYSIS OF THE BRONCOS DRAFT
The running theme through my analysis, and the reason I have mixed emotions regarding this draft, is that I'm not sure we got maximum value for our picks. At the same time, I like most of the players we took. While I won't claim to have the pure football knowledge of HT and SlowWhiteGuy or the prospect knowledge of Styg, Broncoman, Colinski, or gnarlybroncodude, I do feel like a have a good general knowledge of the draft and how football works and I'm both happy and concerned about what I saw from Denver in the Draft.
1a. Knowshon Moreno RB, Georgia
I have no doubt that Knowshon is going to be a very good player for the Broncos for a long time. He will have 22-25 touches (18-22 rushes and 3 or 4 catches) a game and make things happen for the offense. He'll take pressure off of our QBs and increase the durability of the plethora of situational backs we have, especially Hillis. He's a stud and worthy of pick #12.
...and at the same time, I can't help but wonder if we couldn't have gotten a comparable running back while pick up value for this pick. We may even have been able to get Knowshon and added value. I'm not going to scream too loudly about it right though because I realize it may have been difficult to find a trading partner. My other concern is that a player of equal or greater value at a position of equal or greater need fell to us at pick #12 in Brian Orakpo. I like him as much or better than Ayers and wonder if we couldn't have had Orakpo at #12 and Knowshon at #18. I'm also wondering if we couldn't have addressed a defensive need here and gotten a back of nearly the same value later in the draft. Running backs always fall and this year was no exception.
Overall, I'm fine with this pick. While we might have gotten more value, Knowshon will likely do a lot for the Broncos for a long period of time and that's what you really want from a first round pick.
1b. Robert Ayers DE, Tennessee
I had Ayers to the Broncos in my mock because I knew that his positional versatility would appeal to Josh McDaniels and I think he has a ton of upside. At his best, I see Ayers as the new era version of Karl Mecklenberg (who was Adalius Thomas before Thomas even knew he could play football). He has the combination of size and athleticism to situationally play anywhere in the front seven. I expect that he will mostly be moved between DE and OLB with some kicks inside to rush the passer in our 4-3 hybrid.
...and at the same time, Ayers makes me a bit nervous in that he didn't produce until his final year in college. Really a minor gripe. My main concern actually was addressed above. I feel like Orakpo and Moreno might have been better for our team than Ayers and Moreno.
Overall, I'm fine with this pick as well. I see what McDaniels sees and as long as he develops into that vision I think he'll be worthy of this selection. He does make me wonder if a 3-4 is going to be our base defense, or if McDaniels is planning to create the ameoba defense to compliment the ameoba offense.
2a. Alphonso Smith CB, Wake Forrest
I like Alsphonso Smith as a player a lot. I think he is going to be a playmaker. He's quick and has good ball-skills. Frankly, he reminds me a bit of Dre Bly when Bly was at his best and used properly. He's a ballhawk and will make plays as a nickleback until he's ready to move into the starting lineup. He also tackles much better than Bly while giving added value on special teams. He can spell Royal on punts and team with Arrington on KOs.
...and at the same time, I have serious concerns regarding what we gave up to get him. I accept the logic that McXander's chose to spend one of next year's 1st round picks to get someone they gave a first round grade and who will contribute immediately. I have concerns that the logic cost us a pick we may have been able to keep and still get either A. Smith or a similar player in S. Smith at our pick at #48. Basically, my complaint is that we may have really wasted a ton of value and flexibiltiy in next years draft to get a player we could have gotten anyway.
Overall, I'm not terribly upset. I do believe that Smith is a talent who was correctly graded by the McXander's team. If we view this as we got 3 first rounders this year instead of just two this looks good. If we think of it as we could have had three first rounders this year and still had two first rounders next year it's a bit more iffy.
2b. Darcel McBath S, Texas Tech
In general I'm cool with this pick. He's going to push Renaldo Hill to be his best if he doesn't want to go to the bench and will likely start for the Broncos within a couple of seasons. He won't be a liability in coverage and will make plays as an Ed Reed sort of centerfielder. As HT pointed out in his analysis, McBath is the best free safety for what he does in the draft.
...and at the same time, I wonder if he's the best 'best at' we could've taken at #48. Max Unger is also a 'best at' at a position of equal or greater need. Unger is clearly the one elite linemen who is best at being versatile. He can play credibly anywhere on the offensive line and is an exceptional prospect at both center and guard. I believe that McBath is a reasonable value at #48, but I think that Unger would have been an exceptional value.
Overall, I'm not gonna cry over spilt milk. McBath is a good player worthy of going mid-second round. I expect he will be a long time contributor to the Broncos defense and special teams.
2c. Richard Quinn TE, North Carolina
Okay, here we go. I like Quinn fine as a player. He is a versatile TE who has a nasty disposition as a blocker and apparently impressed McD with his combine workout and hands. I think he is good insurance for Graham and Scheffler and definitely represents an upgrade from the Jackson experiment.
...and at the same time, I really hate this pick. The reason I hate it is that I am 99.999999% sure that we could have taken Quinn with the first of our third round picks and kept our second third round pick. To tell the truth, this pick reminded me of Coach Shanahan at his worst on draft day. It's silly to give up value in the draft when you don't have to. We could've had this guy and another third round player or multiple later round picks.
Overall, blah. I'm pretty sure that Quinn will be a decent player for Denver, but why we gave up anything to get him is beyond me.
4a. David Bruton S, Notre Dame
Once again, I have no problem with Bruton as a player. He brings great leadership and work ethic to a team that seems to have been lacking both in recent years. He plays hard and he will absolutely kill it on kick and punt coverage.
...and at the same time, I really question the decision to make a second pick at safety when another best fell to us in an area of need. Sammie Lee Hill is clearly the best developmental NT prospect in this draft. His perceived upside is high enough that many draft experts had him going in the third round. That he fell to an area of the draft that is perfect for developmental prospects makes me wonder if McXander's emphasis on taking BPA was properly executed here.
Overall, I see this as a luxery pick for a team that hasn't reached the penthouse and shouldn't be looking for a bubble bath.
4b. Seth Olsen OG, Iowa
This is not an 'at the same time' analysis. This is the one pick that I don't like, period. I don't see how a guy with poor feet and limited athleticism is a fit in an offense that emphasizes frequent pulling by the guards or zone blocking, much less both. Yeah, he's a tough guy with a nasty demeanor and good intangibles but there were other guys like that who fit the system McD has outlined with the same qualities who would have been better fits.
5. Kenny McKinley WR, South Carolina
McKinley is a quick receiver with very good hand and body control. He makes tough catches and gets turned upfield quickly. He offers schematic versatility in that he can play the slot or outside and allows us to maximize both his impact and increase the veratility of Eddie Royal who can also bounce between the outside and the slot.
...and at the same time, McKinley is pretty light in the shorts. I think he can put on 5-10 more pounds of protein armor without losing quickness, but I'm not sure of it. I have questions about his durability.
Overall, McKinley is a good pick and may turn into a steal this late in the draft.
6. Tom Brandstater QB, Fresno State
This guy is as good a developmental pick as any. He's got a good enough arm, learned from a coach with pro experience in a pro-syle offense, reads defenses well, and has upside.
...and at the same time, he reminds me more of Drew Bledsoe than Tom Brady. Not that that is necessarily bad, but I question his mobility and that lowers his versatility. Also, not to beat a dead horse into a bloody pulp of bite-sized bits for the vultures, but I really don't think we had to give up one of our 7th round picks to get Brandstater, or a QB of equal developmental value. Still, not a huge sin if you think he can be your guy of the future.
Overall, I'm fine with this pick. I'm happy with our #1 and #2 QBs and if McDaniels thinks that Brandstater has potential, I'm not going to argue with him.
7. Blake Schlueter C, TCU
This guy fits the mold of what we should covet in a scheme that emphasizes good feet and athleticism. He moves well, is smart, and plays mean. He could develop into a good playr for the Broncos.
...at the same time, he lacks strength and sometimes got pushed around in a league not known for it's monsters on the interior DL. My bigger problem is who he isn't. Like I said before, I would've much preferred to take Max Unger when he fell to us. Schlueter is neither as talented nor as versatile. Further, I thought that A.Q. Shipley, who went one pick later, is a better overall prospect with more experience against tougher competition. Still, I can't say that Shipley was so much better as a prospect that passing on him for Schlueter is a bad move.
Overall, I can't argue too terribly much with this pick. He's a solid prospect with some upside taken in the seventh round.
BRING ME A PITCHER OF ORANGE & BLUE KOOL-AID
I have mixed feelings about our draft, but that doesn't mean that I won't be rooting like crazy for all of these guys to be great Denver Broncos.
I think we did a couple of things with CFA's that make me feel better about not addressing the defensive front seven as much as we could in the draft. We picked up 2 DE, a DT, and a LB after the draft. Of those, I'm pretty darn excited about Pedescleaux who has the look of a 3-4 end with upside. I also like that we got DT Chris Baker from Hampton after the draft. Using a pick on him would have worried me considering his character problems, but as a CFA coming into an organization modeled after the Patriots I think he's worth a shot.
Also, the draft approach tends to make me feel more optimistic about our players in place on defense than I otherwise would have been. Maybe Coach Shanahan's biggest problem is he was accidently drafting and signing players for the 3-4 rather than the 4-3!
Moreover, I think that we clearly did as well or better in the draft than the rest of our division. The AFC West is still likely to be a pretty weak division and I don't see that these players hurt our chances of winning a division title.
Anyway, feedback is both accepted and desired and...
GO DENVER BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
6 recs |
21 comments
Comments
Pretty good overall
But we couldn’t have gotten Moreno at 18, Xanders even said that teams were trying to trade up for him, so if we passed at 12, he surely would have been taken
"Really, I'm a high-motor guy. Tough, hard-nosed, a hard runner, can make you miss at times. And just competitive. I love to play the game and I bring that energy to my team. So, we'll see how that goes." - Knowshon Moreno
Knowshon Moreno is the boss!
by stedtfeld on Apr 27, 2009 8:31 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right.
And one team that wanted him was San Diego, so we denied them a potentially elite RB. At the same time, why not trade the #12 pick to one of the teams calling that wasn’t San Diego, pick up more picks, and still get Donald Brown, LeSean McCoy, or Shonne Greene? Heck, Rashad Jennings fell all the way to the 7th round.
I’m still fine with Moreno as a player. I’m sure he’ll be a stud. Just wondering if we couldn’t have gotten better value.
by jaffe28 on Apr 27, 2009 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you look at how many players we added I don’t know if getting more would have been the answer.
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 28, 2009 9:20 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps,
but when you consider the wash-out rate, you increase your probability of hitting a keeper the more you bring in.
by jaffe28 on Apr 28, 2009 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
I have posted the same thing. However, it comes to a point, because you can only field 53 guys a year. Like the coach said you don’t draft people to cut them.
So there is a point of maximum return for talented individuals and numbers of individuals and I would think we got really close to it.
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 28, 2009 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the average BPA scale only Malcolm Jenkins was a better BPA then Moreno by the time we got to #12.
Moreno works fine for me.
by British Bronco on Apr 28, 2009 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would not want to be the guy making cuts...
If you take a look at the current roster… when you add this year’s free agents, draft picks, and college free agents we now have 89 players to evaluate.
You read that right 89!! That will be prodded and picked at until we have 53 guys that are going to make our team competitive (plus the practice squad and IR).
Just for fun, I started to create my own depth chart and the fun part of it quickly evaporated. Definitely a challenge to say the least… more talent here than you may think… I could not believe some of the guys I was cutting already.
I have created a sortable spreadsheet that can be used to “play” with if anyone wants it… do not hesitate to let me know…
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 28, 2009 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post
This is the kind of post I have been looking for on the draft. Looks at the Pros and Cons. Like your assessment of all the picks and it is how I fell as a whole on the draft, players look to be good but the value of the picks is not as high as it could be. This is what makes it a C+ type of draft. Just so you know IMO an A draft is when you draft good players that fit your system and fill needs and when you get value. B draft is usually missing one of those and a C draft in my opinion is missing 2 of those things. We missed on filling needs and getting the best value. But we got what appears to be quality players. Here is to next year and maybe trading down once.
On a player note I think passing on Orakpo was smart. I heard repetitively that he was lost when asked to play standing up and did not display the hip turn needed to be an OLB and if he put on the weight to play DE in a 3-4 he would have lost his speed. But trading down and taking Ayers and Donald Brown (who i liked just as much as Moreno) would have given us the extra 2nd to potentially draft smith with out using next years 1.
by kilowog5 on Apr 27, 2009 11:59 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. Things seemed to be getting a bit hysterical in the two extremes :)
I do agree that Orakpo has the smell of a workout warrior about him. On the other hand, Ayers looks like he might be a one year wonder. Honestly, and you can check through my posts to verify :), I’ve wanted to trade the number twelve pick for months. There simply did not seem to be a player that fit a need and was worthy of the selection. I do think Knowshon will likely be worthy of the pick based on production, but in terms of how to go at the draft, I’m not sure we couldn’t have traded, filled a need, and gotten a running back who will be a stud.
by jaffe28 on Apr 28, 2009 7:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I think this is the best post on the draft I have seen so far.
Thanks and rec’d. – nice unhysterical post.
There’s a bit of doublestandards taking place from some of those who love this draft to bits. Any time anyone expresses doubt they are told that:
a) McD et al must know what he is doing (as if the other 31 coaches don’t). Well McD may know what he is doing but then the same argument could equally have applied to Matt Millen in his first year. After a while every Detroit fan realised he didn’t.
and b) noone can say for anything for certain until they start playing.
While b) is true it applies equally to those arguments saying we had the best draft ever. If we accept that logic none of us here at MHR would be allowed to hold any opinion ever. The “wait and you will see” argument simply does not hold up.
My take like you is that we reached for too many players.
On the Ayers pick Everette Brown was available. He was regarded as an ideal 3-4 rush OLB. And his scouting grades came much higher than Ayers. I’m hope I’m wrong but I think we will regret taking Ayers over Brown down the stretch. We have a lot of unknowns currently at rush OLB namely every single one is a project (Doom, Moss etc).
McBath & Quinn were reaches no question. But if they deliver then fine.
On the other hand I can really buy the A.Smith decision. When we got him he was the BPA corner, and rather then wait for a year for another player we can begin grooming him now. I think the salary cap implications of drafting him 2nd round need to be fully considered here as well.
by British Bronco on Apr 28, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The salary cap angle is important for sure,
though it goes by the wayside if you believe we could have taken A. Smith at 48 or gotten a comparable player there. That’s one of those, we shall never know scenarios. The issue of paying two first round picks in each of the next two years could have easily been addressed next year as well by trading one of the first rounders for later picks in the 2010 draft or future 2011 picks. Still, I’m generally okay with this decision. Definitely like it better than the Quinn trade which was entirely unnecessary.
Another thought on the salary cap really quickly. As of right now, 2010 is scheduled to be an uncapped year. So the issue with money is likely to be cash on hand rather than salary cap. I’m sure the labor situation will start to get some play here on MHR in the near future.
by jaffe28 on Apr 28, 2009 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice!
My increasing concern with McDaniels is his apparent tendency towards the “method of tenacity” – the tendency to hold tight to a belief in the face of uncertainty. On the positive side, I think that this gives him a great deal of confidence, charisma, and an ability to pursue his way despite what other’s think. I’ve been very impressed with his recent interviews. On the negative side, I think it can make him blind to what other’s think.
You’ve nicely shown how the draft strategy may have placed too much emphasis on players the coaches liked (overconfidence) and also failed to take into account the thinking of other teams (lack of strategic thinking). I’m concerned that both the Cutler debacle and the draft strategy may show a weakness in looking at the world from someone else’s viewpoint.
I’m hoping that as he grows into the position he will improve in this area. Go Broncos!
by Snaggins on Apr 28, 2009 9:29 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
If you are right you want to be tenacious. If you start to bargain or bend to other people’s views when you are right then where does that get you, someplace wrong? Do you want to add wrong thinking when you are right?
My point is that you want a guy who believes what he says and goes after it. Then you want to hope he is right, I tend to think he is and we will find out in a year or two. If you had to choose though between the coach who said “I know how to win and this is it” or the coach who said “I don’t know how to win but I am willing to take suggestions and try to reach a common ground we can all agree on.”
Well I know who I would pick.
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 28, 2009 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, somewhat
I agree that you want a leader to err on the side of over-confidence, and I think McDaniels is an excellent leader. With our current front-office model, however, this means that Xanders must be the advocate for the long-term point of view. One of the classic criticisms of the coach-as-GM model is that the coach feels an urgent need to win now and can neglect long-term team building. I’m hopeful that Xanders and McDaniels can find a good balance, but it will be a challenge. I think the recent draft shows that this is still a work in progress. I like that Xanders is a former linebacker – he should be able to go toe-to-toe with McD. I just wish that he had been more visible on draft days – perhaps a joint press conference with McDaniels.
by Snaggins on Apr 28, 2009 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding the question of getting the best value
I agree with much of your take (Unger in particular), and as I’ve posted previously, my biggest disappointment with the draft was a lack of Patriot-esque draft management (i.e. trading down, stockpiling picks for current and future years to maximize flexibility, letting BPA come to you rather than trading up).
BUT, I wonder if, in this first year, McX decided that this is one year that they needed to go after the players they wanted (be “aggressive,” as McD put it), rather than jockey for best value. It might be that the importance of being strong in the first year of the new regime — building confidence in new approaches — momentarily outweighs a more conservative, longer-term strategy. As McD stated, we still have one pick/round next year, so that’s the glass half full.
What I find most impressive about the Patriots, despite their over-achieving no-name roster, is their ability to continuously rebuild depth on their roster and remain competitive year after year (I doubt any other team would’ve survived losing their starting QB as well as the Pats did, let alone one of Brady’s stature). This is the thing that dynasties are made of. More than any other thing, including schemes, amoebas, and late-round totally awesome QBs, a long-term strategy (leading to yearly competitiveness) is want I want McD to “bring over” to my Broncos.
by CoastalBronco on Apr 28, 2009 9:46 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
oh, and highly rec'd post Jaffe
by CoastalBronco on Apr 28, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you may be right on the aggressive thought process.
And I even support it to a degree. In general I’m on board with the aggressive decision to go get Alphonso Smith. On the flip side, I just don’t see the point of being aggressive just cause, which is what it looks like with Quinn and even Brandstater.
by jaffe28 on Apr 28, 2009 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
it looks like we took a different route to the same destination. :^)
I actually like Quinn and Brandstater more than I like Smith, though I’m in agreement we may have not needed to give up what we did to get them. But that echoes my comment: I don’t think McX wanted to risk it this year.
by CoastalBronco on Apr 28, 2009 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post man! Thanks
I also absolutely loved this line:
Overall, I see this as a luxury pick for a team that hasn’t reached the penthouse and shouldn’t be looking for a bubble bath.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Apr 28, 2009 1:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Zappa :)
Don’t tell anyone, but I was sorta pleased with that one myself. LOL
by jaffe28 on Apr 28, 2009 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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