Context, Paradigms, Perspective, and other Big Words.
Context is a fun concept. Really, I've gone drinking with him before.
I'm not here to open a discussion on "best player available" versus "Needs based drafting". What I want to do is paint a picture to make a point.
I'm doing this because folks differ on certain arguments, but go right past each other and miss context. Let me explain:
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If I were a humanitarian, I would say an event that cost the lives of tens or hundreds of thousands of men was a disaster. If I were a military historian, I might say that the D-Day landings in Normandy were a total victory. The same event, but two different views. And both views are correct.
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If you have a meal in mind, you go to the grocery store and buy the ingredients for the meal you want. Congratulations! You got the meal you wanted (though the ingredients may or may not turn out to be the best).
But here’s how I grocery shop. I go to my local grocer, and buy only the best ingredients out there, regardless of meal. I’ve been doing this for years (and this is how many chefs approach shopping). Do I have the specific dinner I wanted? Maybe, maybe not. But I have several advantages that you don’t. I have only the best ingredients (you might or might not), and I have several meals to choose from.
My way isn't right or wrong. It works (as does your way). But don't come to my place complaining that you can't have a hamburger. Not when I'm running the most expensive seafood restaraunt in town.
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You may be a great French author (say, a young Victor Hugo). I grade your paper in an English class. I give you an “F” because your paper was in French. Fine. But this is a French paper submitted in a French class. Should it receive an "F" because it should be viewed in an English context?
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An umpire declares my team a loser because my team didn't score any home runs. The problem is, we're playing football. A referee would call my 32 - 10 game a win.
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This brings me to how to evaluate a draft. If a team isn't even trying to get players for a certain position, it's kind of odd to criticize the team for not getting who you wanted. Conversely, If a team is trying to fill a certain position, it is also bizzare to down grade the team because a better player was not picked.
I recently wrote an article that explained that the draft made no sense to me. I liked the two early picks as players, but didn't think our needs were being addressed. When the 3rd and 4th picks rolled around, I realized I had been judging the draft the way a baseball umpire refs a football game... the wrong context. So I started looking at the draft the other way. I looked at it the way a math teacher grades a math exam, not how a math teacher grades an English paper. The draft became clear, and it then made sense.
I now understood that the Broncos weren't even trying to score points by getting particular players for particular positions. They took a different approach entirely. When properly graded, it would be hard to give them a bad score.
I read the recent Horse Tracks at MHR. Many of the old media sports reporters are calling the Invasion of Normandy a failure (and they aren't writing from the German perspective). The funny part is that they agree that the players are very good.
From MHR member ChiBronx comes this funny and proper response:
Every Pan I Read Makes Me Feel BetterTo say somebody drafted good players and give them a grade of D is pundit villager thinking at its best. I absolutely love that all of the criticisms of the Broncos’ draft cite the good talent they got. If only I could fail so wonderfully in life.
AnotherNYCbroncofan adds this insightful point (Bolding is my highlight):
I'm with you...I don’t know why, but I still catch myself every year looking to the national pundits for their “analysis” of the Broncos’ drafts. They rarely seem to have done any significant research on the team and they always put things in terms of filling holes or team needs…. Their grades usually just reflect the conventional wisdom about the team’s needs without applying any of the particulars or digging deeper into the meaning behind the picks. The various posts and comments here on MHR have done a much better job of pointing to and exploring other factors such as special teams, longevity of current starters, schemes, and overall philosophical approaches that can also influence the team’s draft.
Look. Sharp minds can call this draft a good one or a bad one for Denver. But the funny part is, many of the people critical of the draft are trying to couch the draft in terms of need, and then complain that their favorite player wasn't selected. A great example is Raji. Every NFL team passed on him in the first.
The funny thing is, if you are complaining about the draft because you didn't get who you wanted, I agree with you! I also think you are missing the point. We weren't even trying to get the players that you and I wanted! That wasn't our goal (just like you don't score home runs in a football game, and you don't complain about the lack of pork at a Jewish deli).
We got what the team wanted, not what you and I wanted. When you get that, it really makes it hard to have a good argument against this draft. I offered some arguments against our own draft in my article (that some folks may have missed). Why take an OG that doesn't look like a good zoneblocker for our system? Why take a safety who wasn't (perhaps) the BPA? Folks had good answers for the safety (good special teams fit / perhaps underrated), and not many for the OG.
But I couched those arguments in the proper context.
Now, did we get good players? Argue that. Todd will disagree, especialy when it comes to character. From Todd Jewell:
I love this part!
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=9003 — almost every individual paragraph about the pickups:
“Team Leader”, “team captain”, “team captain”, “ex-marine”[team player imho], “all time leader”, “named after rulon jones” — sorry that last one just made me chuckle =)
For player ability, I'll let my previous article speak for itself.
Denver fans, last year's ('08) draft was a best player draft. I remember the kool aid crowd loving every player (they were each good players, so of course). The doom and gloomers complained that Royal (and others) were not needed. In fact, there were even some "skilled position or bust" folks who didn't like taking an offensive lineman with our top pick. It was one of the best drafts Denver has had in recent years.
This year in terms of "need", I agree that the draft didn't get the results folks wanted. I'M a needs guy, and I very much wanted a NT. At the same time, I was a needs guy last year, and didn't understand the Royal pick at WR. (We had a lot of great players, right? Colbert, Jackson, Marshall....) Why bring in Royal? A lot of us needs guy were wrong (thank God).
The argument (in a context of BPA) is "Did we get good players?" - I believe that we did. The argument (in a context of Need) is "Did I get who I wanted?" - The answer is no.
The real argument is "Are we now a better team?" I think we are.
Back to the grocery shopping example:
If you have a meal in mind, you go to the grocery store and buy the ingredients for the meal you want. Congratulations! You got the meal you wanted (though the ingredients may or may not turn out to be the best).
But here’s how I grocery shop. I go to my local grocer, and buy only the best ingredients out there, regardless of meal. I’ve been doing this for years (and this is how many chefs approach shopping). Do I have the specific dinner I wanted? Maybe, maybe not. But I have several advantages that you don’t. I have only the best ingredients (you might or might not), and I have several meals to choose from.
This is what recently happened in NE. Brady got injured. But a QB who hadn’t played a down of football since HS was able to step in without the team missing a beat. Why? Because he was surrounded by – the best players available.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
19 recs |
47 comments
Comments
Great stff as usual HT...Rec'd
I think when the dust settles, everyone gets to camp, and we actually get some real reports on players performance—fans will begin to realize just how tallented our FAs, Drafts, and CFAs have made this team. I think we’ve done very well. I also think our main problem the last two years has been scheme and direction more than defensive players. I think excitement will really begin to build heading into the first pre-season game.
I loved the Clady pick but was one of the “Eddie Who?” neysayers until shortly after camp started and we started hearing reports of the tremendous work ethic and great hands of Royal.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
by Mike Clark on Apr 28, 2009 12:37 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoops I forgot one thing...
.

Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
by Mike Clark on Apr 28, 2009 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey I have a question
you may have addressed this in the la la land constitution- but how come 13-3? what’s holding us back from 14-2, 15-1, 16-0, 19-0! Are the three losses the small piece of reality that keeps you out of the funny farm? just kidding.
by orangeandblueblood7 on Apr 28, 2009 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a historical anachronism...
I think it was Zappa who predicted 13-3 and that became the rallying cry. Tradition is more important than reality in La La Land
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 28, 2009 4:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that was all me.
I had this insane belief that we were somehow two years from a Super Bowl last year. Remember 1996? 13-3 but missed the Super Bowl? Boy was I delusional! lol ;-)
8-8 baby is my new rally cry!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Apr 28, 2009 5:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
To my knowledge
the 3 losses are the trinity that holds lalaland to earth so that people have access to it. If it were 16-0 it would be so lofty no one could attain that “perfect state” and enter.
Consider the 3 losses to be “of the flesh.”
But Mike could clarify that point better than I.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 28, 2009 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow!
Styg, “Doctor of the Church”.
Makes very good theological sense to me.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 29, 2009 5:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL....sounds good to me styg!
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
by Mike Clark on Apr 30, 2009 8:22 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Context, Paradigms, Perspective, and other Big Words…
Your perspicacity is amazing!
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 28, 2009 12:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah?
Well Supercalifragilisticexpealidocious back at ya!
lol
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
I think instead of Raji you mean Rey Rey…
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 28, 2009 12:44 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Right Right.
Sorry sorry.
lol lol
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lions and tigers and bears! Oh, my!
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 28, 2009 12:52 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
My first grade daughter backed out of camping with me last Friday.
She was concerned about bears. We were going to camp in the van. In our driveway. In Indiana. In a city.
(rolls eyes).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
7 years old and already standing the guys up...
Sorry to hear that… but bears? I’ve heard way better excuses!
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 28, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope your van isn't like my van, for your daughter's sake.
lol.
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
by papigrande on Apr 28, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I don't really have a van...
How did that even get started anyway?
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
by papigrande on Apr 28, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was your fault dude
I said welcome to la la land we have cookies
and you said in teh big grey van and posted a picture. it just kind of swelled from there
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Apr 28, 2009 4:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We got Moreno baby!!!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Apr 28, 2009 5:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey, I liked your explaination on how the bronco’s drafted someone that was the best at some thing in the draft. that is alot like last year draft. Cady best feet of an ot in draft, eddie the strongest wr, best at beating press coveridge,and best route runner. Kory best pulling g\c in draft. Powell best run stuffing dl in draft. Spencer best run stuffing lb. Josh best measureable of any safety and Peyton Hillis best all aroung fb. Also yesterday was black monday for scouts and gm’s, so it sound like they used goodmans scouting and used ther way setting up their draft board. Everyone seemed to like last year draft, so this seems about the same. Waiting is the only answer
by rooferwayne on Apr 28, 2009 1:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a prediction.
I imagine the schedule will be too tough to overcome. The wins just may not be there. But I also believe we’ll have better players playing better football. By the following year, I bet it pays off.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
the schedule is always overrated, the teams who look good this time of year aren’t always that good in the season and viceversa . But I agree with you.
by rooferwayne on Apr 28, 2009 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post. Gracias hombre!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Apr 28, 2009 1:14 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll have to check...
…with Dora the Explorer to make sure you aren’t talking about my mom.
lol!
Thanks!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
As with nearly everything you write, Rec'd.
I do think you are leaving out a third variable in terms of evaluating the draft, value, but as far as believing that the players we got will make us a better team I’m with you. I do question the long term strategy a bit with the aggressive trading up, but we did have the flexibility of some stockpiled picks so we still have a pick in every round next year.
by jaffe28 on Apr 28, 2009 1:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
damn..
If I am going to be quoted I need to step my game up a notch.
I think the biggest faux pas people keep making is comparing what we got in FA to the draft. You can’t go through FA based on assumptions of what players will be available when you draft. You have to get better RBs [who may turn out bad] while you have the chance, not knowing if Moreno will be there. You have to get better WRs [who turned out bad] while you have the chance, not knowing if Royal will be there. You have to get DBs in FA while you have the chance, not knowing if the guys you covet will be there in a couple months when you select in the draft.
You have to try to make your team better every step of the way, because you can’t be certain what will be available at the next step. This is the advantage of the NFL and the [mostly] non-guaranteed contracts — you can get better now and then get better again with the draft [even at the same position].
Another thing to keep in mind is that McDaniels came in [Jan 11th] right at the start of free agency [March 2nd] — never being a head coach and therefore probably not having spent a great deal of time scouting the college ranks. I am sure he knew some names and had a couple ideas, but never doing his real scouting. He had to analyze the current roster, make cuts, see who would be available in FA, scout the FA players, make offers before other teams did, and then also start doing his due diligence for the draft.
by Todd Jewell on Apr 28, 2009 1:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
+2
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
by Darin H on Apr 28, 2009 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
"I told him (Montrae), don't worry, you'll pass out before you die" -- Rick Tuten
by littletinybroncos on Apr 28, 2009 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your game was good.
That’s why I used it.
Thanks!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 5:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
BIG WORDS HURT HEAD
ha ha outstanding. It’s hard to adjust to a new style, we went from filling needs and finding gems to addressing depth. I know you HT are at the very least one of the few who always had an issue with our depth (me too). The new coach seems to plan for the future and the possibility of mortality within our team (Even though we all know Peyton Hillis is superman). I like the thinking, it is the same type of program BB, Pete Carrol and many other successful coaches run.
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Apr 28, 2009 2:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of the...
..newer member may not know about how I gripe and groan about our depth issues. And had I looked to the draft to fix the depth problems (as I initially did), I’d still be mad. But we are in new times now.
We don’t build the Bronocs by position anymore. We build the team by quality. No bad players at any position, even if we don’t have our favorite choice at a certain position. I had to change.
If Denver ever leaves the zone block system (for example), I can have tow choices. I can complain about how I don’t like the new system, or I can join the Broncos organization in evaluating offensive linemen that fit a different mold than what I am used to.
The team is changing a lot of philosophies. We can keep up and go along and try to understand, or sit back and complain. I choose to support our new regime, and to give them the time to prove themselves.
Thanks Jon!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 5:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post HT.
You hit the nail on the head. Pundits, and fans for that matter, waxing on team needs seems a little far fetched, especially a team with new coaches, new schemes, and a bunch of new players (before the draft). Rather than say, the team failed to address its needs, one should say the team’s needs are much different than I had perceived.
Once you look at the draft from that perspective (in that context), the need for a dominate tailback and secondary depth sticks out like a sore thumb.
"Talking tough is easy when it's other people's evil and you're judging what they do or don't believe. It seems to me you'd have to have a hole you're own to point a finger at somebody else's sheet" -- Mike Cooley
by ButteBronco on Apr 28, 2009 2:26 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
rec'd ht, nice work
One thing I noted after last year’s draft was that just about every player we took had a few of the same traits – character, solid, relentless, hard worker, etc, It turned out to be the most successful draft top to bottom that the Broncos have had that I can remember. What a change it was from previous seasons where the only thing that mattered was talent and potential. Seems that we followed the same strategy this year, we took guys who are solid people, hard working, and talented. That’s a recipe for success no matter what business you’re in (see what I did there? recipe, yeah, I’m a suck-up, heh)
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
by Darin H on Apr 28, 2009 2:48 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Good call.
Agreed. Character counts.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 5:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yo HT
You did some great work on the 3-4 Defense explanations for MHR U. Well one thing I find interesting about our offensive trades is how well prepared Denver would appear to be in taking on a 3-4 defense. What do you think?
Don't jump off the cliff but if the guys next to you are loud and annoying try to push them off.
by Kfustud on Apr 28, 2009 3:10 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure what you mean about the offensive trades preparing us for a 3-4.
I think our FA moves helped us, and I think the movement of DEs to OLB help us too. We also used a 1st round pick for a front 7 guy (and while it is debatable, I think Ayers is going to go DE).
Our offense is more prepared to go against 3-4s too, in particular with the pick-up of Quinn. Two TE sets are the classic way to block out edge rushing 3-4 OLBs.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 28, 2009 5:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice Post
I enjoyed reading it.
THIS ONE'S FOR JOHN!
by IamMileHigh on Apr 28, 2009 3:46 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
loved the perspective and the words
rec’d
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.
by BShrout on Apr 28, 2009 4:40 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice job
I really like your post, and it makes good sense, I was unable to spend 70 hours a week the last couple of months researching on the players available because I have to work. I like a lot of what has been going on before the draft (CUtler gone, Dawkins here, etc.) I am going to hold back my judgement on this draft until I see what they do next year during the season but I did notice that as the draft was going on a lot of players that would have filled obvious needs seemed to be a reach at that paticular pick so you go with best available.
by broncfaninNE on Apr 28, 2009 4:45 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
awesome post
and you have changed the way ill go grocery shopping for the rest of my life
rec’d to the fullest extent
"Have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?"
- "I don't listen to hip-hop"
by BroncoJoe311 on Apr 28, 2009 5:10 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Deeper than Simple "Needs" - the Intersection of Needs
I think that what McD&Co have done in this draft has been to look past the “apparent” and “obvious” needs of the team, NT, DL etc., etc. It has been posted elsewhere, (very interesting insights), that maybe the LBs and secondary were more to blame that has been previously thought, and that maybe we needed people there more than on the line. And maybe there just weren’t any NTs or DEs that were good enough in McD’s opinion – the intersection of need and realistic fulfillment of need.
But one important key has to bethe intersection of skill needs with individual and team character needs, (or even team chemistry). I’ve posted on another thread that the character of the team, or the lack of it, really bothered me over the last few years – the way we got blown out and by whom – and just being so flat in important games. These were all problems with a sense of who the players were as a team, IMHO. No question – I love Champ and Royal, for example, – great character – but they are not the vocal leader types. And I didn’t think JC, while being a great competitor, was THE leader with the kind of character I am talking about, (the nonsense with Phyllis, etc.)
And maybe even McD&Co were considering an intersection of skill needs and “sustainability” needs – maintaining a winning team over the long haul, (which the Patriots have been REALLY good at). Do we “need” a good, blocking TE when we have Graham? The answer could be “yes” if the long-term goal is to get top level players at all positions and remain under the cap in years to come – Graham may just be too expensive.
They may turn out to be wrong, but I see (through the help of the very interesting perspectives offered by MHR) a lot of deep thinking going on with our coaching staff, and that comports with my gut feeling that these are some very smart guys who are thinking many moves ahead. I think these guys are way ahead of the MSM, but many at MHR have been doing very well to keep up!!
by dwinjapan on Apr 28, 2009 7:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Another great post, HT!
Good point, I’m really loving what your writing.
"Really, I'm a high-motor guy. Tough, hard-nosed, a hard runner, can make you miss at times. And just competitive. I love to play the game and I bring that energy to my team. So, we'll see how that goes." - Knowshon Moreno
Knowshon Moreno is the boss!
by stedtfeld on Apr 28, 2009 7:12 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you mean Rey?
You stated “A great example is Raji. Every NFL team passed on him in the first.” Raji went to GB with the 9th pick. Good article as always though.
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on Apr 28, 2009 9:54 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I missed the fact that Kfustud already pointed it out the first time I read the comments. Any way to delete comments made to a post?
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on Apr 28, 2009 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
If I make a mistake, it is worth it getting pointed out a few times. It makes me try to be sharper down the road.
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 29, 2009 5:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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