Mood Swings
Okay -I’m going to say right now that I’m sorry for bringing Cutler up -I’m as ready as everyone to just part ways and move on. But this was very interesting to me. (I'm sorry if this has already been discussed and I somehow missed it. Let's face it. There have been a lot of posts on here the past few months.)
I discovered this from the McDaniels article Guru posted .
Sometimes I scan the comments of these articles -every once in a while there is an actual worthwhile post. Someone made the comment that perhaps losing Jay was a blessing in disguise. He then went on to tell the story of his coworker’s wife, who is a late diagnosed type 1 diabetic, and the mood swings that the condition can contribute to. From the post:
“After this whole McJaygate drama he reiterated how he and his wife would get into an argument, talk it out and resolve it, and then hours later she would be more upset than ever before. Josh and Jay had reportedly civil conversations, and then hours later Cutler is demanding a trade and calling this situation unfixable. You could see evidence of these swings in games too. The Dolphins game comes to mind when Cutler hooks up with Marshall for a 70 yd TD pass and it got called back. Cutler lost it on the ref, visibly steaming, he lines up again and forces a laser right to their safety in a very winnable game.”
Obviously I had to do more research. This article, although discussing type 2 in older men, I found very interesting.
“A person with diabetes may express long-withheld emotions-sometimes chaotically. A diabetic patient may be unaware of even severe mood swings; and act as if a current emotion is a valid basis for long-term decisions. Emotional outbursts may follow minor events or small lifestyle changes.
For example, a person with diabetes may angrily criticise[sic] other family members, or suddenly announce an unusual decision to business associates. Yet they may also quickly forget such conversations. Criticised[sic] family members, and business associates affected by hasty decisions may respond with their own emotions and reduced trust of the diabetic person. Emotional conflicts can spiral to create chaos."
There seemed to be a lot more information about mood swings in diabetics that corroborated this. I know we have some very educated/experienced folks on MHR, and I was wondering what your thoughts are on this? I have a friend who has late diagnosed type 1, and he struggles with mood swings and depression. I never put the two together, though.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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interesting
in the end I think that if this was all just medical though, it would have been resolved. When you tell your agent you want him to formally request a trade, that means you have thought this one through a little bit. IMO
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
Oh I agree, JT
I’m not really suggesting that diabetic mood swings are the reason Cutler’s relationship with the Broncos broke down -just that it’s reasonable to think it might have contributed to some degree -perhaps one of the reasons things escalated beyond repair so fast.
Thanks for your thoughts. :-)
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 29, 2009 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions
happy to give them
and I think we were on the same page so no worries, I am just worried that some people (msm) may use this as leverage to say McDaniels should have tried harder. In the end he didnt want to be here
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Apr 29, 2009 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions
rec'd, but
I still think Cutler is a complete tool.
I can have mood swings too. ;-)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
My sentiments exactly and as smart as Jay was,
he knew what he was doing. I believe he was upset over losing his coaches and it got the best of him. 13-3 baby!!! “Tool”? What kind of tool? Lol… Great post kitten and great analysis, and true diabetes can cause mood swings especially if the victim (patient) doesn’t take care of himself i.e drinking binges, not eating the right foods, etc.
It does make you wonder about the reports
of Cutler’s party-boy ways in his new city. I hope for his sake those reports are just sensationalized exaggeration. I really do. As much as I sometimes feel like a jaded ex-girlfriend stinging from rejection, I don’t truly want Jay to ruin his career from poor lifestyle choices.
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 29, 2009 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions
You know some times the good Lord looks down
and says, I’m going down there set things right. Who knows? I’m a firm believer that if you do a wrong, it will come back and bite ya at some time or an other. .As for Cutler, I have no feelings for him, he is the enemy now, and he must lose…13-3 Baby!!!
especially since
we get Chicago’s first round next year! Tank, baby, tank! :-)
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 29, 2009 7:12 PM MDT up reply actions
He's not an enemy
He’s simply no longer significant to La La Landers.
13-3 here we come!!!
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.
by Brian Shrout on Apr 29, 2009 9:49 PM MDT up reply actions
True, but if he's suited up against us then he's the enemy in my book. 13-3 Baby!!!
by bfree2bronc on Apr 29, 2009 11:22 PM MDT up reply actions
good point
if it’s in a game situation we’ll be free to hurl paper cups of kool aid at him
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.
by Brian Shrout on Apr 30, 2009 12:08 AM MDT up reply actions
dont sugar coat it zappa
give it to us straight!
:-)
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Apr 29, 2009 8:35 PM MDT up reply actions
The trade
I don’t think the events that lead to Cutler’s trade were a result of diabetes-induced mood swings (though that may have been a factor). Rather, I found it interesting that some of Jay’s INTs might have been a result of (or again, at least influenced by) these outbursts. The example in the quoted comment points out the INT against Miami came immediately after Jay visibly lost his composure when Marshall’s TD was called back (btw, I lost my composure at that point as well). There were the two INTs against Kansas City that came shortly after Jay was PO-ed with a backup WR for running the wrong route.
Just makes one wonder: is Jay’s biggest enemy his own emotions, and can he get them under control?
Thanks Kitten!
~Uffdah
If only we could of been "FLYS" on the wall
during the meeting that fateful Saturday. I believe their probably was some mention of on the field behavior. “You can’t handle the truth” from the movie ‘A Few Good Men’. 13-3 Baby!!!
I'll bet McD was certainly aware of some of that on-field behavior
And he seems blunt enough in his manor to call things as he sees them. This quote from the McDaniels article is really telling (and makes me really respect McD).
“In one of his first meetings with the team, McDaniels went over the offense’s gawdy numbers, how the Broncos had racked up more yards than just about anybody else in the NFL, how it didn’t really matter because they finished in the middle of the pack in scoring.
On some thinner-skinned teams, maybe this would’ve angered some people. But tight end Daniel Graham said it just motivated the team to dive harder into the new playbooks. "
If Cutler wasn’t thick-skinned enough to handle trade rumors initiated by other teams, or have his emotions under control during games enough to not throw picks, it’s just as well he missed those first team meetings -because I don’t think he could have handled hearing that he was middle of the pack.
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 29, 2009 7:11 PM MDT up reply actions
It's one thing to throw the ball up and down the field
but not scoring when you get there is the most important part, not just the stats. McDaniels plainly laid it out at the owners meeting, bottom line is to ‘score’ points. I bet that fried what’s his name again, and he probably had to go out after that statement and buy a new TV! LOL…13-3 Baby!!!
by bfree2bronc on Apr 29, 2009 11:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Great Post Rec'd
“Yet they may also quickly forget such conversations”
An important point to remember. I’ve worked with high functioning autistic students, and they share some of the characteristics of diabetics — mood swings, emotions that are out of line with the situation, reactions that erupt due to something that occurred in the past. And as Kitten pointed out, they often forget that things were said or done. So I can see how the diabetes might have impacted Jay, especially in 2007 before he was aware that it was an issue.
While I agree with others that the diabetes cannot be blamed for the sage, it may have contributed to the escalation of the situation once it began.
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.
Mood Swings
Blood sugar fluctuations can be quite extreme in Type 1 diabetes and can cause irritability, inappropriate anger and amnesia for recent events. Impulsive behavior can sometimes be related to too low blood sugar. However this behavior can also occur in Bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorders. People with these conditions can function very well, but act erractically at times. I cannot blame any of the above for Cutler’s behavior. This was a tactic planned out over several weeks in concert with his self-serving agent. It’s really too bad, because he would have thrived in this system I believe.
Can't argue with the Doc.
Good explanation and enjoyed your post on the Red Flags on Cutler post. Knew that diabetes has numerous manifestation but did not know that mood swings were also included.
One of my closest friends is Bi Polar II...
And he does not screw the pooch like Cutler did.
The trade thing was planned….mood swings on field under stress I can believe.
Simply, Cutler is a Putz, and the only other player I have called a putz is Rivers.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
Can't disagree
I don’t blame the whole McJaygate on mood swings. But it probably didn’t help.
Thanks for your input. This was what I was looking for.
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 29, 2009 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Great stuff!
Thanks for backing up your hypothesis with some evidence.
Rec’d
Mistakes are, after all, the foundation of truth, and if a (person) does not know what a thing is, it is at least an increase in knowledge if (they) know what it is not. - Carl Jung
by Smiling Assassin on Apr 29, 2009 5:51 PM MDT reply actions
Thanks SA
Just thought it was an interesting angle nobody else had brought up. Haha…as if that horse hadn’t been beaten to death as it was.
;-)
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 29, 2009 7:14 PM MDT reply actions
Kitten....Good Post !!
Since learning of Jays Diabetes I have had one concern—his refusal to give up drinking. I have a Great Grandfather that had Type 1 and lost both his legs through the experience. With that said both my Grand Mother and Mother became experts in concern with diabetes. They say the best way to avoid Type 2 diabetes is diet, the best way to avoid Type 1 is choose the right ancestry…or parents.
Alchohol is a funny thing. It is basically a string of sugar with a radical oxident (free radical) attached—HO-hydroxide. Not only does the HO kill a number of cells as your body detaches it from the sugar—but your body is then left with processing a huge amount of concentrated sugar. That is why you first feel good (Brain Cells Dieing) and then feel terrible (Way Too Much Sugar To Be processed).
Think about not a terrible hangover—but the funny feeling your brain has when you have had no sleep for a long period of time…or in some cases what you feel when you have not eaten for that same period.. Both those feelings can hit a Type 1 diabetic, at any time, if he is not governing his diet.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
We have a similar experience . . .
My grandfather and mother were both Type I diabetics. Both drank daily. I remember as a kid my grandfather having these angry outbursts at the oddest times. Scared my baby brother and I to death. So much so, we hated visiting my grandparents (literally, I would cry and throw a tantrum when we had to go visit them). My mother would become vulgar at the most inappropriate times (i.e. restaurants, my baby daughters birthday, etc.), especially after having a couple of glasses of wine. After getting her to check her blood sugar and taking an insulin shot, she would go back to normal . . . but totally not remember ANYTHING she just said.
I worry that with Jay’s late night antics (at least from what I have read) did not have an effect on his blood sugar, and therefore, his diabetes. I know people are around him to ensure he is physically OK, but it makes me wonder . . . was he drinking during this stressful time? Was his blood sugar in check? Was he taking diligent care of his diabetes? Some of his reaction makes me question whether his Diabetes really is in check.
Thank you Kitten for your post. It really is a thought provoking one. Anyway, I wish the best for Cutler and hope that he does not do anything to jeopardize his young career. Go Broncos!
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
Just wondering
How many people would drink it if they called it HO-hydroxide.
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.
by Brian Shrout on Apr 29, 2009 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions
me for one
A rose by any other name…….
"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton
LOL--As long as they call it Coors Hydoxide I suppose,
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
sounds like an energy drink...
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 30, 2009 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions
put it that way
and it does kind of sound like a cleaning solution you’d find under the kitchen sink…which might not actually discourage some folks. ;-)
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 29, 2009 11:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Actually, when the Hydoxide attaches itself to the ethane molecule, because of electrical charges it ends up as OH
So I suppose you could call it Oxy Hydra….kinda sounds like a monster from a sci-fi flick.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Little, Wright, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
Great breakdown, Mike
Perfect addition to the discussion!
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 29, 2009 10:09 PM MDT up reply actions
village idiot
Very nice description of the feeling. I can empthize quite well with lack of sleep, and if it were to steal on me just because I forgot to snag lunch at the right time would be horrible.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 29, 2009 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Ooops
I meant . . . “I worry that Jay’s late night antics did have an effect on his blood sugar . . .” Sorry if that sentence did not make sense.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
I'm pickin up what your putting down
And your own anecdote corroborates with the research I found. Scary stuff, Coach. Makes you wonder -and this is all rampant speculation…but Jay being moody anyway (possibly because of the diabetes), and then being depressed because Shanny was fired, and then Bates goes, too. A lot of people can turn to drinking to “help” during stressful times. If Jay upped his consumption, that could have further ‘encouraged’ the emotional imbalance…he takes an immediate dislike to the new coach…
Well as I said, that’s all speculation. But it does make one pause to consider…
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 29, 2009 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions
helps us grasp Jay's reactions a little better I think
time heals all wounds, but this post has helped me dig his perspective a little more than I used to…
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 30, 2009 1:26 AM MDT up reply actions
me too
That’s why I thought I’d share. Help us all to have a fuller understanding of what may have contributed to the situation, which will help with closure in the end.
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 30, 2009 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions
We're seldom really rational in the best of times -
I did a lot of research on critical thinking in connection with some seminars I did in Japan. It’s amazingly interesting stuff. You’d think that we think about most of what we do, but we really don’t for dozens of reasons. One of my favorite quotes was something to the effect that thinking is merely the process by which we justify the decisions we already came to by other means. And the effect of a chemical inbalance on the mind can take all kinds of forms. (If you haven’t read it, definitely try “The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat” by Oliver Sacks!!)
I could easily see stress, a feeling of betrayal, blood sugar problems and drinking affect JC’s thinking during that crucial period. The most puzzling thing during the whole episode for me was when, after he learned that he had been traded, he said something like, what? I didn’t want to be traded. I thought then that this guy is completely out of it! And maybe he actually was.
I could also easily see a snake like Cook taking advantage of that rather than trying to correct it or put JC back onto the right track. The big-league successful hangers-on are quite pyschologically acute and use these kinds of weaknesses to their advantage.
stress + moodiness + diabetes + insecurity + hurt feelings + alcohol + BUS COOK = McJayGate
Thanks for your perspective. I absolutely agree about the path to our decisions. And I’ll have to check out that book thanks! :)
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 30, 2009 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks (without strikethrough this time) :-D
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 30, 2009 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Good Subject
This is a good topic and one that should be discussed as it has been here with this post.
Interesting and informative. Thanks Kitten and thanks to all those that commented.
About playing against Joe Namath "He's the best in the Business, he can do everything, but I've never seen a Quarterback yet that can throw on his back." - Dave Costa 1969
Misuse of a Disability
While I think it is relevant to discuss a disability, I have problems with some people misusing or discriminating against a person because of a disability. I think Jay Cutler is a courageous guy for doing what he has with the serious medical condition that he has.
He may, in fact, be more emotionally sensitive due to his condition. People act like that is a bad thing. I don’t know many people who succeed in life and on the battlefield without considerable emotional involvement.
Most of you have handled this discussion with class. Some of the above writers are name-callers who wish to perpetuate mistreatment of someone who has overcome his problems and fought with all his energy for this team.
Maybe, the new coach should have had a little respect for the guy in the way he treated him. If anything, that Cutler had diabetes just meant he was more of a fighter than many of us are and he should have been treated like one.
But, that is just my opinion.
by Baltimore Bronco on Apr 30, 2009 11:09 AM MDT reply actions
A couple different issues going on here
Jay Cutler is an inspirational figure, especially for diabetics. It does take some courage to put your body through an NFL career with such a disease. No arguement from me there. I’m still displeased with Cutler over the situation, but I can still respect how he’s dealt with that particular piece of adversity.
What I find intriguing with the “mood swing” issue is not that Jay may be emotional…I don’t think you function as a human if you’re NOT emotional! From the sounds of it, however, there is documented evidence of diabetics experiencing rapid and dramatic mood swings that can often be far in excess of what a healthy individual would feel. I can understand how that would happen: blood sugar levels are a tricky thing, and I get VERY irrational and unpleasent when I haven’t eaten (and I’m not even diabetic). While we can’t say for certain if Jay experiences these mood swings, there are several examples of poor decision making on Jay’s part on the field after some event got him riled up. Part of that is probably competitiveness, but the mood swing angle isn’t something that should be disregarded.
The big picture: these mood swings can show up in diabetics. If they are happening to Jay, it is another component to diabetes, and something he will have to overcome. There isn’t anything wrong with examining all aspects of the condition. I do agree with many othere here, however, that you can’t blame the Cutler trade on these mood swings…it just doesn’t fit. It may have played a small role (somewhere…maybe), but the whole issue went on too long. I have my beliefs on the matter, but this is not the time or place for them.
Cheers Baltimore!
"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.
Fair Comment
Thanks for your kind reply, Disco Stu. I have no problem with people considering emotions, including side effects of diabetes, in human performance. My concern is that some people want to just add diabetes to the list of things they dislike about Jay Cutler, then add a comment or two about his play in the red zone, then progress to the telephone thing, and climax with calling him a crybaby.
We could do a personality analysis of the new coach and perhaps come up with an analysis of rigidity and egocentrism in the way he handles matters that may have led him to mishandle Cutler.
My point is that we have got to stop the name-calling and critiquing of Jay Cutler if we want to move beyond the controversy. I wish Jay the best of luck in his new opportunity, and now remain with the Broncos and its new coach. My concern is that the new coach avoids similar player relations problems in the future. You have to have a talent to deal with people in addition to systems. I look forward to watching how he does.
by Baltimore Bronco on Apr 30, 2009 12:19 PM MDT reply actions
better explanations -- attitudes
I don’t mind hearing theories related to diabetes but there are better explanations for all this.
There’s a strong tendency to search for explanations for ‘hard to believe’ events. Cutler’s diabetes provides a way of rationalizing what is unthinkable for many fans — that Cutler simply didn’t want to play for the Broncos. Diabetes provides us with a way of explaining Cutler’s ‘crazy’ desire to play for someone else, and only craziness could account for his desire since no right thinking person wouldn’t want to play for the Broncos — in our view.
Contradictory beliefs create “dissonance.” Dissonance can be reconciled by finding alternate evidence that brings discrepant beliefs back into coherence. Cutler clearly wouldn’t want to leave the Broncos — (in our mind) — so something must have affected his mind to explain this. Or, for instance: it’s unthinkable to believe that Cutler, in the right mind, would want to leave the Broncos, so somebody must have angered him so badly that he wanted to leave — and thus McDaniels is purportedly to blame for failing to show his loyalty to Cutler. Again, for a right thinking Cutler; he ‘had’ to be “slighted” in some way or else his behavior made no sense — thus the purportedly despotic McDaniels and communist sounding New England Way of thinking FORCED Cutler to miss the off-season workouts and was the REAL cause of all the problems.
Parsimony yields a simpler truth, but that doesn’t mean that Cutler couldn’t be affected by blood sugar problems. However, the monitor that he uses does a very good job of monitoring his glucose and boosts his insulin when needed (from what I’ve read). Diabetes may be a bit of a mystery to non-diabetics but I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in this diabetes induced mood change theory for Cutler’s behavior.
If anyone can find a diabetes induced desire to play for the Bears for millions of dollars more theory then I’ll look at it with an open mind. I’m afraid that the best explanation for Cutler’s behavior relies upon a rather coldly calculating and rational explanation of his state of mind. I’m not hurt by his desire for a trade, and that’s even though I would have liked to see him remain a Bronco, but I don’t require alternate explanations for his behavior because the reason for his behavior isn’t ‘unthinkable’ for me.
by Colinski on Apr 30, 2009 12:38 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Excellent point about cognitive dissonance, Col,
I think few people realize how crucial this is in what goes on even before we make conscious decisions – at the level where we are establishing perspectives and assumptions about the world. Then our “decisions” are made so as to maintain consistency through our unconscious and our conscious. I read something interesting in connection with “evolutionary psychology” – basically, since nonverbal communication is such a gigantic part of all communication, (and obviously even more important when the “verbal” is limited to a few grunts or whistles), in order to bluff or trick another person next to you of something, you actually have to trick yourself first into believing it otherwise the nonverbal comes off as fake. Kind of like method acting – if I understand that correctly. And it’s also the reason people smiling for the camera never look natural – we can only consciously control certain smile muscles, but not others that can only be triggered by happiness!!! You actually have to be happy or convince yourself that you are happy in order to have a natural smile for a photo, (and thus convince others with the smiling picture). Bizarre, huh? (And granted hugely off the subject – I just couldn’t help myself.)
Experiment – think of the recent draft and look in the mirror – is your smile natural? LOL I think mine was, but what do I know?
BTW, on JC – I think the interesting point of this thread is not that it is a psychological fix-all, but rather that it may explain some aspects of JC’s behavior I found odd. But it will only be an unproven hypothesis – though interesting. Kudos to Kitten!!
japan
Have you ever noticed that if someone is genuinely smiling/laughing from happiness/joy, it is completely infectious, and you can’t help but smile back? But if you see a fake smile, it can put you off? (like in a retail store a salesman feels obligated to smile and ask if you need anything -but if they aren’t truly into helping you, that ‘smile’ only makes you feel like your that much more of an inconvenience for that person).
LOVE this tangent – great thoughts. Thanks!
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on Apr 30, 2009 6:59 PM MDT up reply actions
foot-in-the-door technique
Salespeople employ a well known arsenal of persuasion techniques. Another good example — albeit off topic — is the Hari Krishnas who stick a flower in your lapel and then ask for “donations.” Giving something creates a sense of obligation. And foot-in-the-door is a technique in which persuading someone to give a little enables them to get more. Once you give a little you’re on the hook because you need to maintain cognitive consistency.
yes, I understand, and it's appreciated
I like evolutionary psychology but I didn’t have the opportunity to take any while in school. David Buss has written the Evolution of Desire on the subject. Some others who are in the field — Stephen Pinker (The Language Instinct, etc.), and Leda Cosmides.
The one that really opened my eyes
was “The Moral Animal” by Robert Wright – lot of yellow highlights in my copy.
For me maybe the most important part of this whole McJ-Gate thing has been the reactions of the various players and observers here at MHR – human psychology test tube.
cooperation
Don’t know if you’ll catch this but it’s an interesting subject.
There is a tendency to view nature through a dog-eat-dog, individualistic perspective, one which virtually ignores the importance of cooperation and exalts combative relations between members of a species. There is competition between members — certainly — but it often occurs within a context in which those members derive a tremendous benefit from their membership in society (or packs, etc.). More developed animals, specifically those who live in animal societies, have mores and ideas about fairness (surprisingly), which appears to serve as social glue as well as a guarantee that the needs of vulnerable members are attended to (lots of stuff here, such as cooperative rearing or herd behavior being altered to attend a single sick animal).
I once strongly considered reading Wright’s “Moral Animal.” I guess I’ll have to put back on my ‘to read’ list. My only problem is that I have so much reading already that I’ve planned.
we see your point reflected in MSM television
Reality shows like Survivor emphasis the individualistic perspective and are quite popular, whereas that short lived one in which the players only won if they cooperated as a team failed to win an audience.
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.
Winning is Everything
is one of the football mantras that I just can’t buy into. In fact, I’m thinking about writing a book called “Being a Loser to Win” or some such idiot title. The point being that a capitalist society’s whole raison d’etre is to make us feel continually unhappy and unfulfilled. Second best isn’t good enough, and that new plasma TV you just bought last November just doesn’t cut it anymore. So buy more, try harder, get bigger, more powerful, richer. But for the gods’ sake, isn’t there enough (at least constantly repeated anecdotal) evidence that the rich are not happy than the rest of us AT LEAST AS A RESULT OF THEIR MONEY – (some few might be DESPITE their money).
The only mature approach to an individual or family life is to learn the discipline of enjoying enough and the art of making enough plus a little alpha into elegance. (This is one of the things the Japanese were traditionally good at, though you’d never know it looking at modern Tokyo.) On the macro level, it’s the only way toward sustainability with our planet.
And Col, you make a great point, (you always seem to), about the other side of competition. It’s been a number of years since I read it, but as I recall that was the point of the “Moral” in the title of Wright’s book – morality has an evolutionarily advantageous characteristic, we didn’t just think it up as a good idea.
And to bring this all back to football – I really don’t need my team to win all the time. But I loved the character of the team in years gone by – TD’s mile high salute, Rod Smith’s solid excellence and remember four or more years ago when the MSM was calling our LBs the fastest, best sideline-to-sideline group in the league? I LOVED the character of the team and had a lot of Bronco pride. I’m looking forward to getting that back. Go Broncos!!!
The first time I ever considered that the idea of individualism
might be more of a Western philosophy and not unanimously universal was from reading Fanon’s “The Wretched of the Earth.”
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on May 3, 2009 10:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Diabetes Type 1 partying and MCD view on what it takes to win
Good or bad Josh seems to be driven to success at a significant cost, no other way a 33 year becomes an NFL Head Coach. He surely expects the same from his staff and players (he’s not Shirley but I digress…) If the average person has diabetes and chooses to go out partying he risks his health for the above stated reasons, simplified alcohol is highly unstable sugar in any form. Insulin can nuetralize the short term affects… I can easily see MCD saying to Jay like: Lifestyle issues are important to our team concept, just the same as I wouldn’t put you on the field without sufficent protection to your backside, I would hope you would take care of yourself to be the best you can be on and off the field. Chicago trainer stated clearly they knew they should expect a partying lifestyle from Jay and it was worth the risk. Most type 1 diabetics who love to drink in excess get pretty pissed off if you remind them of the risk to themselves and all of those who depend on them. Bottom line, reaching for excellence for this year’s Broncos may require of each member at least a reasonable physical and mental drive for success, we can debate the spiritual requirements to achieve this somewhere else. I’m thinking that I love tough love in today’s NFL!
by HippoJohn on Apr 30, 2009 4:05 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs

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