I think you put it better than I did!

We “win” on both of those “trades” IMHO

Didn’t Bus get exactly what he wanted?

than had he waited for Denver. Actually I believe, that was what they were trying to do. Trying to force Mr. Bowlen into redoing
the contract now… HT?

mediocre yard per pass. He get’s lots of yards because the Broncos threw more than anyone but NO. Last I checked, Chi didn’t throw that much. Plus he makes the same mistakes that Grossman makes. Chi got a stronger version of Rex Grossman.

Having said that it’s still a first round pick baby for a baby!

Reductio ad absurdum.

the 2010 draft pick will be near the end of the first round, which is where bang for the buck is maximized. At the very top of the draft the odds of getting a good player are somewhat better, but the price is waaaay higher.

Has anyone even considered this? Orton, coming out of college was known as a QB with a huge arm, guts and pretty good mobility. A natural team leader.
He was derafted by a team, built on the run game, in part, because of the abysmal conditions prevalent in Chicago. Now, Chicago now trade for s guy known for his arm and throwing ability, his gambling with his biggest weakness being game management and decision making, and you think he is going to flourish at Soldier Field? Good luck with that.
Finally, both Simms and Orton, who have good arms, are corageous players, team leaders and talented in their right, come into a situation with our O line and weapons?
Man, whoever is our starting QB is going to flourish and Cutler will struggle.
I cant believe a run fisrt team in a divison that can play is some hoorible conditions traded for a gun slinger AND gave up the house?
Each to their own I guess!
We won BIG TIME in this deal….mark my words….our starter will have better efficiency than Cutler. We WONT be drafting a QB this drfat…dont see it!
GO BRONCOS!

but he’s pretty highly regarded now. Here’s the comparison:

Brees 27 starts, 10-17 record, 909 atts, 5613 yds, 59% completions, 29 TD, 31 int, 6.2 Y/A, 73.7 rating
Orton 33 starts, 21-12 record, 913 atts, 5319 yds, 55% completions, 30 TS, 27 int, 5.8 Y/A, 71.1 rating

Not too dissimilar. Orton could be fine for the Broncos’ system, especially if McDaniels is as good a QB coach as he’s touted to be.

My thinking -

Cutler will have a less than stellar supporting cast, BUT he’ll have better coaching than he had in 2008. The pass happy weirdness and lack of defense won’t be there in Chicago. I think he’ll be used better than we used him in ‘08, but he’ll have a lesser OL and WRs.

Still, the coaching this year in Denver should be terrific.

and show you how many times Royal, Marshall, Scheffler turns absolutely horrendous throws into great plays. The play Hillis was injured on was an atrocious throw that Peyton reach over the defender to grab.

don’t get me wrong – Cutler is amazingly talented, and has more upside potential than Simms and Orton put together. But he is also seriously over-rated.

College players.

at about 2:57 of this video you will see a play at the beginning of the 4th quarter in Cleveland. Eddie Royal fakes the CB out of his jock strap and is streaking down the sideline. All cutler has to do is lead him down the sideline for an easy TD. But he underthrows him horribly and to the inside. Underthrow to the outside and Royal still can come back for the catch, but the inside is the one place the CD can still defend. Eddie makes a veteran move and holds to his route, using his eyes to fake the CD. Only after the CB commits does Eddie cut inside and make the catch.

Lousy pass, excellent receiver play!

The receivers issue is well handled by SWG in his responses. They do very well with a QB that never looked off of his primary target.

As for Chicago’s record, I don’t see Chicago in a good position moving forward. Chicago plays in a weak division (in my opinion), in a weak conference. I still believe that Cutler can help them out. They have a good defense, and the running game will be used in Chicago (it was abandoned in Denver in ’08). WIthout their draft picks moving forward, I think they have a difficult road.

Just my opinion.

Chicago’s no. 1 wr wasn’t even drafted to be a wr so do you really want to talk about being good prospects?

Yeah…Chicago’s WRs are just as good as Denver’s.

You keep telling yourself that buddy.

Enjoy your honeymoon…but don’t say we didn’t warn you.

….could get a good record playing against the NFC North and West. I’m not down on Chicago at all. I’m just saying that Chicago can get a good record based on terrible opponents, and still not be an elite team (yet).

Or six games.

Or maybe nine…or twelve games.

Hell…they might even win seven games.

this is the first we have heard from the bears fans about Orton being someone who throws away games. So far they have all been very pro-orton, though it could reasonably be assumed that they were feeling pretty gracious because of acquiring Cutler. It seems that Orton did have a following over there though. What would you say were the percentages of Pro-Kyle vs. hate-kyle?

But just watch some tape on Marshall and you will see who he is, and what a monster he is in YAC. Cutler might have slung the ball to him, but the majority of the time Marshall is fighting for extra yards, making plays with his insane balance and ability to break tackles. He is “the BEAST”!!!

Earl Bennett might have had 3 seasons with 75+ receptions as a result of Cutler picking favorite receivers, locking on and subsequently making ill advised throws into multiple coverage. You will begin to notice this for yourself next season. There is no doubt he can make the throws, and makes some spectacular throws, but do not think that his arm is the only reason that our receivers are among the best core of youngsters in the league.

As for our O-line, actually yes, they are something to write home about, in fact, Cutler did more than right home about them, he bought them all tailored suits at one point during the season, as well as brought them to the Pro Bowl on his own dime as a thanks for their part in his success.

Who was Brandon Marshall? he was a guy that moved from WR to Safety half way thru his sophomore season and most of junior year (by memory) for the good of the team, even though he knew it would KILL his trade value. He moved back to WR in his senior year. Think this might show you why he wwent in the 4th.

the second highest ypc of any team and the highest rating running blocking of any team. Very few running plays will depress any trivial statistics that the MSM obsesses over.

Denver had the higher line yards of any team in the league by a good margin. Better do your homework before you try and drag out statistics around here.

I don’t think that anyone is trying to get into a Cutler vs. Orton argument. The whole point of the blog is to dispel the notion that this was a Cutler for Orton trade. Clearly Cutler is more talented. He wronged us here, though, so good riddance. His press conference and interview with Rich Eisen were ridiculous as well.

What we are saying, though, is that Denver’s wide receivers are better than Chicago’s wide receivers, and it’s not particularly close. I’d be glad to debate that with you all day.

Eddie Royal, or Devin Hester? As a receiver, I’ll take Royal, the best route-runner this side of Wes Welker. Brandon Marshall, or Earl Bennett? This one’s not even close. Marshall is 100X the player that Bennett is. And please, spare me the details about Marshall going to a smaller school. Where did Randy Moss go? What about TO? Our beloved Rod Smith? Greg Olsen, or Tony Scheffler? You have an argument here, but I’d put a healthy Scheffler up against any TE in the NFL, including Antonio Gates and Jason Witten.

Let’s talk about O-Line. Denver’s O-Line yielded 11 (eleven!) sacks last season. That was in part due to Cutler, but very little of the credit can go to Cutler. We have the best young pair of tackles in the game in Clady and Harris. Ben Hamilton is an excellent veteran guard. Casey Weigmann is an incredible veteran center, the most important free agent signing of last offseason. Everyone on the team raves about right guard Chris Kuper, who, by the way, is entering his third-year. The Broncos O-line is far from “Nothing to write home about”. They may be “Nothing to write about”, but that’s only because they don’t talk much.

One last point – Orlando Pace? Let’s not forget that he was cut by the St. Louis Rams. The guy is a Hall of Famer, but don’t get your hopes up.

honestly say that the bear Oline is as good as the Bronco Line. But I don’t think the Bear Oline is awful. They were average last year, they had a guy gain over 1,200 yards against 8 man fronts. I am not that dissapointed with 3.9 a carry when there are 8 guys rushing on 5 or 6 blockers. And the sack total definitely has something to do with the QB. I like Orton, good leader , guys beleived in him. But if his first option is covered he is done for. Doesn’t know where his 2nd and 3rd options are and his release is too slow to recover. Drop in Cutler vs Orton and those 8 man fronts dissappear. Also, our offensive gameplan has been limited by the QB position, it will be a a little bit of a different playbook for CHI this year. Good deal for both teams but I for one am fine with what the bears gave up. There are only a handful of franchise qb’s in this league and we just got one of them. Good luck to you guys this year and your team, hopefully your pick is over #25.

Aside from being a maniac his rookie year (hello game winner in week 2), Royal’s got some serious skill and the the desire that has come to be a standard in Denver over the past few decades. All of the successful guys in Denver wanted to be here. Atwater, Rod Smith, John Elway, Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe? They all had the same attitude Eddie Royal does and it’s become a staple in the Denver Broncos locker room.

He’ll take your arm off! : )

Nicely done.

I’d say the vote is out for Orton to start for us this season.

So this paper is suggesting and it’s being posted on NFL.com Denver should Trade our 18th for Brady. Brady was drafted at the 22nd and has show nothing in his first two season beyond showing a little guts with a broken finger to warrant trading for. At best I would offer a 3rd of 4th round pick for him. He can’t even beat out Anderson.

…you send a self addressed, stamped box with which to return the items. But sure; I’ll do my best if send some laundry my way.

I’m here to help.

: )

Here’s the quote from a Feb 09 press conference:

"I’m a big Kyle Orton fan. I like him leading our football team. He’ll do that this coming season. Of course you’re always trying to add different pieces to the mix, but Kyle Orton will be leading our football team this season."

source: http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2009/02/21/bears-coach-lovie-smith-says-kyle-orton-the-starting-qb/

In the first few minutes of this clip, Lovie says KO “is ready to take the next step” and will lead them a lot of wins this year, although Woodson disagrees that KO is the answer: http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f7b754

to the former Bears world….

I watched that commentary and it reminded me of how useless those two can be, which is probably why — in Casserly’s case — he’s an ex-NFL executive.

I’m not not attempting an ad hominem attack, since I do find value in some of their opinions, but it’s hit or miss. And their misses can be spectacular or just inane babble. Everyone has an opinion, and a well-argued opinion can be persuasive, but an illogical opinion delivered authoritatively just reveals that the speaker is pompous. Viewers of the NFL channel have to sort through the pomposity for an occasional kernel of information that’s of value.

Curiously, the first reaction I saw to the trade was by Schlereth and Dilfer on ESPN, and both thought Denver fared better than Chicago in the deal.

This may fall under the category of “Ad Hominem Abusive”, but I have an issue with both of these guys. Mayock has good presence on TV, but I’d take even Kiper’s word over his. Casserly? For some reason, getting on TV has seemingly afforded him the title of “Best GM In NFL History”, and that’s simply not true.

Don’t get me wrong, Casserly is probably right on on this one. However, he was in the business long enough to know how it works. He had to know that what he is saying is what the Broncos were doing. When a player refuses to pick up the phone when the owner calls, he has to go. I just don’t understand the media love-fest for Casserly. The guy was a terrible GM, but revisionist history has him cast as some sort of a DemiGod.

I’d be lying if I were to say that I don’t wish that Jay Cutler were still in Denver. However, I’m not upset in the least that he got traded. Obviously, it stings to lose him, but what can you do? Call me crazy, but when you disrespect a well-respected owner, a head coach that is just doing his job, and an entire region of Bronco die-hards, that, to me, is not acceptable. Be contrite, or get out of town. I may miss your talent, but that doesn’t mean I miss you.

What’s noticeable about much of the analysis of this trade is how it quickly escapes from reality and discusses non-existent hypotheticals. Casserly’s strange venture into fuzzy math is followed by the pronouncement that he would never have let Cutler escape in the first place. I get the impression that Cook would’ve eaten Casserly for lunch, as it were.

The usual scenario we see with holdouts is a very public display of defiance that’s accompanied by a refusal to attend team sessions (camp) and a rather nasty public airing of grievances that dominates media coverage. It not only threatens the teams functioning in a very real way, by preventing the player from practicing, and in this case learning the offense, it has a corrosive effect on team morale. Insisting that the player won’t be traded doesn’t solve the problem, and it can even worsen the harm produced by the holdout. So Casserly and Mayock add less than nothing to the issue when they proclaim they would never have let it happen in the first place or would have refused to trade Cutler.

Proclaiming that a state of affairs couldn’t exist is not problem solving, it’s merely a imperial decree that proclaims that a counter-to-fact reality now exists. Playing hardball, as Casserly advises, would have provided Cook with more ammunition to use in his character assassination efforts against the Broncos and McDaniels. The genius of Cook’s MO, as we’ve seen it practiced in the McNair and Favre situations, is that it invents a slight and then uses the controversy that develops over that purported slight to ‘prove’ that the schism between player and coaching staff must exist. And it does, so to speak, but not because of the original slight but because of Cook’s instigation over the issue.

The real dilemma that existed for Bowlen was to find the best solution out of the situation. Cutler appeared willing to engage in hardball tactics, presumably a protracted holdout that would undermine the team, so reconciliation held little promise and would have been accompanied by negative press for the interim. Pleasing the many fans who wanted Cutler to stay was desirable but could be unrealizable, thus displeasing them anyways, but it would come at a cost in team morale and would probably damage McDaniels’ reputation permanently and perhaps impair his ability to lead the team. The last factor was timing. Waiting to see if Cutler would have a change of heart meant that there would be other damages, too, as the Broncos would have to forgo the opportunity to use his trade value in draft picks in this year’s draft, thus postponing the eventual post-Cutler rebuilding process by at least a year and probably weakening the team during that period.

Mayock and Casserly are unparalleled in their ability to cite clinches and trite aphorisms but their analysis is less than informative. A gem such as “every team needs a franchise quarterback” is impressive only for the fact that they’re paid quite well to deliver it in a serious and convincing manner. The logic proffered with ’I’d solve that problem by never letting it happen’ is somewhat less impressive. We’re not told ‘how’ it would be done, we’re simply told in a manner that reflects great certitude that you don’t let that happen — a convenient truth or tautology. There’s no pretense of telling us how we could have avoiding Cutler’s falling out after Shanahan was fired, or even whether it’s actually a good idea, just an emphatic pronouncement, long on style and noticeably absent of substance.

We kept both the OL and RB coaches, and the coach said we will continue to run a mixture of zone and gap blocking as before. Given the depth and wealth on offense, we don’t need more offensive players (when your QB abandons you, you do your best). It is worth mentioning that our RB pick-ups are pretty darned good though. The defense has already been upgraded, and we have multiple first day picks fr the next two years.

I simply and respectfully just disagree.

there was a report that there were discussions with Cleveland that they offered Quinn, but McD thought Orton was the better QB. One thing about Quinn is his durability – after taking over for Anderson last year, how long did he last? Three games?

like we have the past few years..
Rex Grossman
michael Haynes
Marc Columbo
Cedric benson
David Terrell

Since our Gm and NFL half the time flop on these picks it was a no brainer for us. Sure thing for a 50 % shot..

McDaniels implied in his press conference that he would have rather had cutler. But he and Bowlen both felt that cutler had no desire to be a Bronco. I think a more accurate way to put it would be that McD believes he can work with Simms/Orton though he would rather have cutler if that was on option.

Now, that one I’d believe….