Help me Mock the Draft : The New Defense

by tricks318 on Apr 4, 2009 10:58 PM MDT

Me again, looking for more help with the Pride of Detroit mock. I figure by now its extremely likely I'm going to be going with defense, and with Raji already gone, I'm thinking that, at least at pick 12, its going to be LB or DE. I wanted to get some thoughts on these positions in the 3-4, as I'm not all that familiar with the nuances of it.

My extremely basic understanding of these positions is that the DE is generally bigger and more of a run stopper than a pass rusher, while the OLB are often "Tweener" types, deemed too small to be full time DE but bigger than the ideal LB. I'm not sure about MLB, but I think that the only one I could take at 12 is Maualuga, as Laurenitis would be a big time reach there.

A cursory glimpse at Scout.com's rankings, and I put together a list of players I think might be available at 12, and what position I think they would fit in.

DE: Tyson Jackson looks to be the one here, maybe Robert Ayers but Jackson should still be there and is the better prospect. Jacksons a big dude, and a run stuffer, probably the best fit out of all the DE's in this draft, as most of the top ones seem to be undersized.

Tweener OLB: Lots of them here, Everette Brown, Brian Orakpo are likely gone, but either would fit in nicely, the top one likely still there is Aaron Maybin out of PSU. Now, I'm probably biased because I live in Big Ten country, but Maybin was an absolute animal in college, and he played in a very similar situation to what he would be in with the Bronco's.

Normal OLB: Curry is gone here, and the other 2 that I could consider are the duo out of USC, Cushing and Matthews. Now, Cushing is the guy who really brings the wood, but Matthews is the guy I would want. Matthews is better blitzing off the corner, and I think is the better all around athlete, which I think is more important in this offense than Cushings physicality and ability to flow with the ball. It's an attacking defense, and Mathews is the better attacking LB.

MLB: Only 2 worth a first rounder at all, Maualuga and Laurenitis. Now, as I said before, I see a lot of Big Ten football, and I've seen a lot of Laurenitis. I'm not impressed, I think he's solid, but nothing spectacular. If you are taking a LB at 12, he should at least have the potential to be something great, and Maualuga has that, he is the complete package, and I think is head and shoulders above Laurenitis.

Now, that leaves me with Jackson, Maybin, Mathews, and Maualuga as the players I think will be the best available at their position, and fill a spot in the 3-4. Here is where I'm stuck, who would I pick? I really like all of them, and I think that I should be able to get another on the 2nd time round. Any ideas on players I might have missed, anyone disagree with my assessment of the players or of the 3-4 defense?

Any help is appreciated.

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I like Jackson.

But they’d all be fine picks. I’d prefer to steer clear of Matthews at #12, but that’s just me.

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by ejruiz on Apr 4, 2009 11:14 PM MDT reply actions

If Malcom Jenkins is available at 12

I’d take him, and then see which of the guys you mentioned is available at 18. I’m hung on Jackson vs. the Linebackers because I think defensive line is a greater need than either ILB or OLB, but I think Maualuga is the better player for his position than Jackson is. Part of it also depends on how Nolan and McD see the players fitting into their system.
I suppose, all things even, I would go talent over degree of need and pick Maualuga over Jackson.

Time to galvanize

by jack_ on Apr 4, 2009 11:48 PM MDT reply actions

I can help

I’ll offer the best help I can – HT’s splendid series on the 3-4 defense. Most of your Qs are answered in this article:
http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5/7/481970/mhr-university-modern-3-4

As far as specific players, several of the folks here know a lot more than I, but Maualuga is an exceptional linebacker. He is well suited to the 3-4 in the NFL. Jenkins is as good a CB as you will see in this year’s draft (My apologies to Ted regarding Sean Smith). Jackson is the best 3-4 DE in the draft (a weak one for that position). Some have Matthews falling to the upper 2nd, but most feel that all of the players you’ve listed will be gone by the end of the 1st.

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 5, 2009 1:27 AM MDT reply actions

sources

DrafTek’s Big Board

DTek has a fairly complete and accurate listing of players by defensive scheme (including secondary and tertiary positions), which is helpful if you’re looking for a scheme-appropriate choice.

by Colinski on Apr 5, 2009 2:02 AM MDT reply actions

Also, re: Ayers

I wonder if Ayers can play R-DE34, since he’s fairly big. They only list him as a DE43, and I don’t see any problem using him in a 3-4, although he may not have played in one previously. The only other one that I question is Moala, who I believe would very well suited for DE-34, although they don’t list that as a secondary position for him.

by Colinski on Apr 5, 2009 2:10 AM MDT up reply actions

Moala

I’ve read that it might depend on one-gap vs two-gap, or on penetrating vs anchoring. Moala has had trouble with double teams and anchoring. It makes him iffy for a 3-4, depending on whether you want him to stuff the play or penetrate. That said, I like the guy – lots of that passion that styg talks about

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 5, 2009 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions

Ayers is one of the best technicians in the draft

When looking at a player of his ‘style’ if you will, I think we can also add in DT, Darryl Richard, Georgia Tech. Richard is ranked anywhere from 4th round to CFA, but his primary strenght is his size and technical mastery. I think he and Ayers are quite similar, and if Denver were to rank Ayers highly, I think they would also feel that they could get similar value much later in the draft. Ayers is still the better player of course, I’m not trying to suggest otherwise.

Amnesty, the idea that you can forgive transgressions against you, gives as much to one side, as it does the other. It has the noble quality of bestowing mercy to both parties.

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 5, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions

I can't overstate how intelligent Richard is, either.

He completed his degree in 3 years, and used his extra year of eligibility to complete his masters, on academic scholarship, not football. He’s received or been a finalist for every significant student-athlete award the NCAA hands out, and he is a bit of a savant on the piano.

He also was a very consistent producer, is no stranger to two gap 3-4 defensive end play, and has a history of key plays at key times (safeties, game-ending sacks, forced fumbles in fourth quarter).

He is a little lighter than you might expect, but he is such a sound technician that he can anchor like a heavier player, while maintaining an elite level of quickness. Unfortunately he pulled his hammy at the combine, and couldn’t get an official speed or agility score in. His loss is our gain? His proday agility score (still no stright line speed score) was okay, nothing amazing.

I think the big question is whether his technique will be enough at the NFL level. I’m glad I have the luxury of pontificating from my computer, rather than with a job on the line, because I am a firm believer in ‘brains over brawn.’ We’ll see. If we dont get him, I certainly hope he goes someplace where the staff attempts to utilize him properly.

Amnesty, the idea that you can forgive transgressions against you, gives as much to one side, as it does the other. It has the noble quality of bestowing mercy to both parties.

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 5, 2009 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions

I like Everette Brown or Malcolm Jenkins at 12.

Then at 18 , well it’s “Peanut Butter Jelly Time”!

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast

by Steve O' on Apr 5, 2009 8:50 AM MDT reply actions

I think Jenkins would be great at #12. And Rey Rey if he falls to #18.

"Take Integral Birth, Paul."

by Tempestuous Binary on Apr 5, 2009 9:17 AM MDT reply actions

Hopefully raji who failed a drug test falls to twelve and we get rey at 18, thats the best scenario in my mind, though highly unlikely. So that being said, i wouldn’t draft jenkins at 12, i think our secondary is better than people recognize as of now. I would like to see us take either tyson jackson or maybin at twelve, rey or the best available at 18, and either brace or chung in the second. praying for raji and rey though

by rayzin1973 on Apr 5, 2009 12:18 PM MDT reply actions

We don't know that about Raji, if you're referring to this year

The test results haven’t been made public. This is more of the lies and rumors that are going around. Is it possible? sure. Maybe some team wants him to fall, and maybe csomebody started to say ‘might have’ and it got around as ‘did’. If you find a source on record or a fact that can be checked, please let us know.

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 5, 2009 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions

These drug test rumors...

seem to come out every year, concerning a big name prospect. Raji this year, and in recent history Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams and Amobi Okoye were all thrown through the rumor mill prior to the draft. The SI report on Raji this year however, is supposedly from the combine. Big names that suffered through the drug rumors previously, if I remember correctly, were “campus rumors.” My point is this: Even though the SI source is anonymous, it is listed as NFL team sources that were at the owner’s meetings. All teams should have full disclosure to the same information regarding prospects and their drug tests, so what good would it do for Team A to create a false failed drug test report on a prospect when all the other teams will have the list of failed tests later this month? Maybe I’m missing something, but this report seems to hold a little more water than Warren Sapp’s campus rumors of drug use, or the “phantom” reports of steroid test failures by some USC defenders. Time will tell.

From there, I'd like to say that the wheels came off, but that wouldn't feel like an accurate description. The wheels didn't just magically come off, the Raiders all got out of the car, shot the wheels off the own car, busted out the taillights, smashed the windshield and poured Splenda in the gas tank. Then they all piled back inside and started screaming, "CAR WON'T MOVE, ME SAD NOW!" - MJD Yahoo Sports

by donbok1 on Apr 5, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions

I agree

I’m stretching for a reason that someone does this – I guess that human nature is as good a reason as any

Hillis in '09

by Doc Bear on Apr 5, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions

I think what happened with Johnson

He admitted in an interview that he had smoked pot, but I can’t remember if he failed a test or not. I think there was a debate on sportscenter about whether him being honest would make one more or less apt to draft him.

by tricks318 on Apr 5, 2009 4:31 PM MDT up reply actions

I don't think Maybin warrants the 12th pick

by RiG on Apr 5, 2009 2:03 PM MDT reply actions

I sort of agree

I think he would be my last choice out of them, but I also think that Orakpo and Brown will be off the board and that Maybin would be the best available player that fits into that “tweener” size.

by tricks318 on Apr 5, 2009 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions

He may not warrant the 12th pick...

but you have to admit, his upside is a little exciting. He was, in my humble opinion, great at the combine, and even better at his pro day. He’s done everything that has been asked of him, as far as put on weight and get faster since the combine. Factor in his youth, and apparent focus at improving his stock at his young age, could show that the kid has his head on straight, and will do what any team asks from him.

Alot of people will say that Maybin will struggle at the pro level and should only be a 2nd round prospect at best. I’m a little more optimistic with his potential, and although I don’t like him as the #12 pick, I wouldn’t be as reserved about him as the #18 pick. If it were up to me, we would move back 3 – 4 picks and add another 3rd rounder for next year’s draft. With the picks 15 and 18 we take whoever falls this year: Jackson, Maybin, Mathews, Cushing, Maualuga, Jenkins, even Raji or Sanchez could fall to the 15 spot. Stranger things have happened. Now that we are in a full blown rebuilding process, my hopes are for another pick next year, and let some top ten talent fall to us at #15.

Just my .02

by donbok1 on Apr 5, 2009 7:47 PM MDT up reply actions

I tink we should trade down

Get a few more picks in 2010 for trade or upgrade purposes and get Laurinaitis. He may not be spectacular, but then when Gradishar came out he wasn’t considered spectacular. If I remember right the words used were smart, versatile, a bit slow and not spectacular.

So I say take Laurinaitis with the 18th pick and trade down from 12 to stock up some more. I think there are darn good things to be found later in the draft. After all, Jay Ratliff, Greg Kragen, Tim Krumrie and the great Rubin Carter were not high picks in the draft either.

Sammie Lee Hill, Chris Baker, Roy Miller and the kid from Canada, Vaughn Martin would be very good later picks. Although Hill is moving up fast on many boards. What they all have in common are very good motors, a will to succeed and size.

Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth

by IgorBStrange on Apr 7, 2009 1:38 AM MDT reply actions