Play Name That Team (and what it teaches us about offense)
First and foremost I would like to say I did not come up with this idea. I found the premise on a NY Times link but could not find it again. But I wanted to share it with MHR. I did check the stats they can be found at NFL.com. Also this is my first post. Ever. I used to make fun of bloggers but it seems the older I get the more my passion as a fan grows. That blue and orange kool aid is a helluva drug!
That being said who's ready to play?
The 2008 Denver Broncos offensive numbers:
Total Yards - 6333
Total Plays - 1019
Avg Yards Per Play - 6.21
Rushing Yards - 1862
Rushing Yds Per Att. - 4.8
Our Mystery Team's offensive numbers:
Total Yards - 6580
Total Plays - 1058
Avg. Yards Per Play - 6.21
Rushing Yards - 1849
Rushing Yds Per Att - 4.1
Can you guess the mystery team yet? They look similar so far but here is where it gets interesting...
08 Broncos:
Touchdowns - 42
Points Per Game - 23.1
Mystery Team:
Touchdowns - 75
Points Per Game - 36.8
Have a guess? You might be right. Here's the kicker...
08 Broncos Record 8-8
Mystery Team Record 16-0
That's right. If yards were all that mattered the 08 Broncos were very much the peer of the undeafeted 07 Patriots. But when push comes to shove points and wins are what count. My conclusion is that the 08 Broncos offense was extemely inefficient and certainly was not good enough to be considered untouchable by Coach McDaniels. 17.11 yards per point for our beloved but unfortunately bumbling Broncos. 11.17 yards per point for those condescending 07 Pats. I hope this helps those that think McD should have fixed the D and left the offense alone to see that it would have been the last thing we wanted.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
9 recs |
48 comments
Comments
One thing you did not mention is defense
Takes both sides of the ball to win.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 6, 2009 12:44 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The point of this post was to illustrate that the offense was not fine just the way it was. The win and loss records were brought in so that the mystery team’s identity would be obvious. totally agree it takes both sides of the ball to win. I am just tired of hearing “they had the #2 offense, why was McDaniels trying to ruin such a wonderful thing?”
by podtosociety on Apr 6, 2009 12:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it does take some defense to win...
but to this post in context put yourself in the shoes of a DC facing the Broncos last year. You’re facing a strong armed QB who can make any throw on the field. But he often forces passes into coverage and struggles in the redzone. How would you defend against him?
What I would do (and what other teams did) is play a zone, let him move the ball in the middle of the field and wait for a mistake or until the shortened field takes away the long ball. In essence I would deliberately give up yards but not points. That is what happened over and over.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 6, 2009 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
and...if we do get close....
you know what’s gonna happen…or…what’s not gonna happen
MHR...and proud of it!
by MHRsGirl on Apr 7, 2009 9:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
been there - done that...
nice new avatar
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 9:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
People need to understand
Love the comparison. Great 1st post. Broncos win at least 2 more games last year if they are more efficient scoring. The Defense was bad, but it was also a victim of the offense at times. How many points were given up because of a short field, and how many times did the Defense hold teams to 3 points on the short field.
The Defense was horrible, it gave up the big play way too often, but I think that the offense can take some of the blame by not taking advantage of the situation in the red zone. I’m was not sorry to see Jeremy Bates leave, his adjustments were not very good during the game.
by D-fence on Apr 6, 2009 1:27 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
"I’m gonna take the lead of the guys who have the rings...It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you don’t win." -- Brandon Marshall
KO: LWLLWWWWWWWWLWWLLLWWWLLWWLWWLLWLWWWL
JC: LLWWLWWLLLWLLWWLLWLLWWWWLWLLLWWLWWLLL
by broncosmontana on Apr 6, 2009 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice work!
I made a mention to this line of thinking in Styg’s Post about “17 2 minute drives, 1 field goal.”
You hit it right on the head! Points mean everything, offensive and defensive. The Broncos were in the bottom half of the league in scoring offense. Let’s not forget, too, Cutler was personally responsible for 20 turnovers (18 picks, 2 lost fumbles). Poor ball control by the offense killed way too many drives, and that’s not reflected in total yards, either. Combine that with the dismal defensive play and you have a recipie for disaster.
McD is doing exactly what needs to be done to fix this team!
"I'm going to the head, to do something productive. It's a little project I've been working on...."
by BornOrange on Apr 6, 2009 2:59 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Offense.
People confuse prolific with efficient. Maybe it’s fantasy football, but people seem to put more and more stock in yardage as opposed to points and that’s just silly.
"The mystic chords of fandom, stretching from every trade and signing to every active account and guest all over this broadband, will yet swell the chorus of union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature". ~ Abraham Lincoln-ish
"The tree of victory must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of quarterbacks and coaches". ~ Thomas Jefferson-ish
by ejruiz on Apr 6, 2009 6:29 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Sweet googly moogly I got 5 comments!
The were certainly prolific in some respects but not when it really mattered. They produced yards but were not prolific in points or more importantly wins. I am feeling positive that they will improve on that this year.
by podtosociety on Apr 6, 2009 7:44 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
It's from Cold Hard Football Facts
Very interesting article to say the least. Agree with Kerry Byrne or not, his numbers usually spark a spirited debate.
That’s right: the 2008 Broncos moved the ball up and down the field nearly as well as the offense many consider the greatest in the history of the game. On a per-play basis, the 2007 Patriots and 2008 Broncos were statistical equals.
But when it came to the two results that actually mattered – turning those yards into points and victories – the two teams could not have been more different. The 2007 Patriots boasted twice as many victories and outscored the 2008 Broncos by better than two touchdowns per game.
The 2008 Broncos, in other words, were an extraordinarily inefficient offense.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Apr 6, 2009 8:50 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Well final question, did the 2007 New England team win the Super Bowl?
That’s right, they lost in the SB because their prolific offense got hammered by a better defense. Seems like everyone is forgetting that point. New England won SB not because of the offense, but because they had a solid defense and an offense that could keep the game close and score in the final two minutes due to their QB.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 6, 2009 10:48 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Did they get hammered?
A fluk play where a no name WR has a miracle catch?
I think NE had every chance to win that SB but they couldn’t RUN the ball. They became one dimensional and passed too often. Strahan and Co’ teed off on the fact they new Brady was passing the ball.
If they Pats ran the ball better and more effectively the DLine would have had to slow down their rush and I think NE wins easily
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast
by Steve O' on Apr 6, 2009 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, hey, that's the coaching choice of McDaniels
Become one dimensional with no feature back, it obviously wins championships. You can say what you want, point being, that offense got beat up and the defense got wore down because the vaunted offense, as you said, was one dimensional. Point being that stats are stats, and if you are going to fault the Broncos for having an team that doesn’t win, NE didn’t win either when it mattered.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun, A-hole" - Ash from Army of Darkness
by Broncoman on Apr 6, 2009 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the obvious answer would be
to forsake the offense so we can build a championship caliber defense!
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 6, 2009 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the point
of this post is not to say our offense couldn’t win games, but that our offense was as efficient as it needed to be. I found podtosociety to be clear in saying that our O was not as good as people thought last season. His point was to show that our O needs work just like our D needs work, not to say the Patriots O won games all by itself.
"If you don't know where your going you might find yourself somplace else."
by BroncoJoe87 on Apr 6, 2009 5:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Proving Broncoman's Point Here
The NYG defense knocked NE out of their routine. When NE became one dimensional, they lost all hope of “winning easily”
David Tyree’s “fluke” catch would not have even mattered if the defense did not keep them in the game.
You hear it so much it is almost cliche, but for good reason, Defense Wins Games
That Rivers idiot in SD is laughing his ass off right now!
by nealjamb on Apr 6, 2009 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Patriots kept the Giants to 17 points
not too defenseless, if you ask me. The Patriots stopped winning easily in 2007 for the same reason that Miami wasn’t able to surprise teams for the entire season with the Wildcat after they unveiled it against us.
Once there is film to work from, coaches devise schemes to combat what they’re watching and can analyze. It took half the season, but good teams were able to figure out a plan to slow down the Patriots offense and it wasn’t until the Super Bowl that they were stopped.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Apr 6, 2009 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They had my respect
just for getting as far as they did without giving up. I wasn’t one of those folks who thought they didn’t win the SB so their year didn’t really matter. Of course it mattered. But the striking thing to me was how they played down the stretch. Could have had another Lombardi, by all rites, but they ran into a very good Giants team who they had exposed their playbook to just a few weeks earlier.
But the thing that I will never forget about that season, and especially that game, is that you never got the sense that the prospect of an undefeated season weighed on them in the slightest. There was no let down. They fought hard every inch of the way and had a few opportunities to come back and win that game. To me, that was as impressive, if not more impressive, than anything the Giants did that night, with the possibly exception of the miracle catch by Tyree.
"I’m gonna take the lead of the guys who have the rings...It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you don’t win." -- Brandon Marshall
KO: LWLLWWWWWWWWLWWLLLWWWLLWWLWWLLWLWWWL
JC: LLWWLWWLLLWLLWWLLWLLWWWWLWLLLWWLWWLLL
by broncosmontana on Apr 6, 2009 10:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And therein lies the problem...
… 08 Broncos had a hard time turning their yards into points during the other 56 minutes of the game… let alone the last 2 minutes of either half.
It’s hard to make the leap that they’d have that problem all tidied up in 09 if something didn’t change. You can blame the defense all you want, but it’s a two way street. The Broncos defense was horrid and put the team in some ugly situations, but the offense put the defense in some bad spots last year too.
Honestly, It would be nice to have a COMPLETE team sometime in the near future. Call me a homer, but I think that’s what McD is trying to do.
~Davus.X~
Est. 1967
Bleeding Orange and Blue for 42 years
Newest Resident of La-La-Land! Mike Clark for President!
13-3 BABY!
by Davus.X on Apr 6, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+100
Homer.
"I’m gonna take the lead of the guys who have the rings...It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you don’t win." -- Brandon Marshall
KO: LWLLWWWWWWWWLWWLLLWWWLLWWLWWLLWLWWWL
JC: LLWWLWWLLLWLLWWLLWLLWWWWLWLLLWWLWWLLL
by broncosmontana on Apr 6, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL! I am.
In fact, I’m so much of a Homer, I’m turning yellow and going bald…. getting fat and becoming more and more enamored with doughnuts!
… and Duff Beer =]

~Davus.X~
Est. 1967
Bleeding Orange and Blue for 42 years
Newest Resident of La-La-Land! Mike Clark for President!
13-3 BABY!
by Davus.X on Apr 7, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
mmmmmmmm
Forbidden donut….. (sound of slobbering…)
"I’m gonna take the lead of the guys who have the rings...It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you don’t win." -- Brandon Marshall
KO: LWLLWWWWWWWWLWWLLLWWWLLWWLWWLLWLWWWL
JC: LLWWLWWLLLWLLWWLLWLLWWWWLWLLLWWLWWLLL
by broncosmontana on Apr 7, 2009 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe the giants prepared better?
i think i remember somebody here talking about what happens for adjustments…like…its way hard to change what you planned to do all week and get into the game and its all wrong cuz the other team guessed right and we didnt…and at half time its way hard to change very much
so…if the giants guessed right when they got ready to play the patriots…then its gonna be way hard for the offense to change and do something else
or am i missing something again?
MHR...and proud of it!
by MHRsGirl on Apr 7, 2009 9:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
SB
The Giants combined a man passing defensive scheme with an excellent front 7defense that contantly got to and hurried Brady, sacking him 5 times. The O line could not hold them back, and that weakness showed up in 2008 as well, giving up 47 sacks. The Giants should be congratulated. The difference in the game was clearly the Giant defense, but the weaknesses in the NE O line were exposed .
An emphasis on who should have rushed or passed is one part of the puzzle. Certainly, the NE attack had been incredibly effective all season and post-season. But the Pats threw for only 229 yards and the rushing attack also stalled. Neither worked, so saying that one or the other was the issue may not be the full answer.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 6, 2009 11:14 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Great
Yards mean jack when you don’t score.
Great post.
by AllBroncsallday on Apr 6, 2009 11:25 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
It's actually a clever post.
Having been a coach, I can tell you that a lot of disagreements between knowledgable folks come down to disagreements over what is (and is not) efficiency. Beyond an elementary understanding of playing Madden, this is a worthy conversation to have for folks that value football and the intricacies it presents.
Or were you being faceatious?
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 6, 2009 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I was saying it was a great post. Long drives and yards accumulated don’t mean anything if you don’t score at the end.
Maybe I should’ve said “yards mean jacksh*t when you don’t score”
by AllBroncsallday on Apr 7, 2009 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My apologies.
And I’m glad you worded it just the way you did!
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 7, 2009 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you're QB throws for more than 300+ yards
you get bonus points in fantasy football!
by lolcopter on Apr 7, 2009 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They call it "fantasy"
for a reason.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point, SWG
I’ve found that there is a steady change in the way that football is covered, based on the immense growth of the FF sector. A lot of coverage is slanted towards what matters in that sporting/betting world, rather than what matters to the teams out on the field. It might be at the heart of a lot of misconceptions
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 10:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re right about that. I remember not too long ago that the League laughed at the concept of Fantasy Football, and saw those who played it as the ultimate in geekdom.
My, how things have changed.
by AllBroncsallday on Apr 8, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Congrats Pod, ( may I call you pod ) for a Great First Post---and welcome to MHR. As you may have noticed,
we are a lively bunch, who do LOVE our Broncos, and do enjoy a debate now & then.
Again welcome, rec’d
GO BRONCOS
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
by UB3 on Apr 6, 2009 4:44 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Major props for spelling it out so nicely.
May have been a borrowed idea, but your personality rings through in your presentation. Nice work, can’t wait to see what you come up with next time. The brain teaser angle is a nice one!
"I’m gonna take the lead of the guys who have the rings...It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you don’t win." -- Brandon Marshall
KO: LWLLWWWWWWWWLWWLLLWWWLLWWLWWLLWLWWWL
JC: LLWWLWWLLLWLLWWLLWLLWWWWLWLLLWWLWWLLL
by broncosmontana on Apr 6, 2009 10:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the warm welcome. I really enjoy this site and have been reading it for a while but just finally joined. I always appreciate the differing viewpoints and mutual respect. I hope to add what little I can to the discussion.
by podtosociety on Apr 6, 2009 11:14 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent post Pod and welcome!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Apr 7, 2009 5:37 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
McDaniels made this point on the Fan interview last Friday as well
Here is a link. This is a good interview if you can stand Scott Hastings for fifteen minutes.
Keep Moving Forward.
by ColoradoOwl on Apr 7, 2009 9:17 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post, but whiffed on over-all concept.
The use of stats was a great way to integrate and compare the Pats & Broncs, but I think you missed the entire point.
Let’s use stats, as you like to use, with the Saints & Titans. The Saints were the most prolific offense in 2008, including scoring 54 touchdowns in the red zone vs. 37 for the Titans. Guess who went to the AFC Championship game and who didn’t make the playoffs? Scoring is important, but stopping the other team from scoring is as important.
Stats is one thing, but having an over-all and well-rounded team is another. The Titans was a well-rounded team with both defense and offense. Now, imagine if the Broncos defense was ranked in the top 10 last year, how awesome would they have been?
Yes, we had the 2nd ranked offense “overall” – But you cannot dump your best player to improve those stats. Tweek the offense and use your weapons in that offensive system (Patriots) would have been awesome. NOT blow everything up on offense and leave the defense alone. That’s not how you improve a team.
by vieng111 on Apr 7, 2009 2:21 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Fair point
but I don’t think pts was arguing that this was a reason to trade Jay, so much as to put into context just how brilliant the O could have been with a few tweaks, as you noted. The perception that the O was near perfect was somewhat pervasive at the end of the season, and the stats do illustrate that its true potential was nowhere near to what was accomplished. Not that Shanny couldn’t have gotten us there — I believe he clearly could have — but in this case an objective look at how great we could have been certainly merits pointing out.
"I’m gonna take the lead of the guys who have the rings...It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you don’t win." -- Brandon Marshall
KO: LWLLWWWWWWWWLWWLLLWWWLLWWLWWLLWLWWWL
JC: LLWWLWWLLLWLLWWLLWLLWWWWLWLLLWWLWWLLL
by broncosmontana on Apr 7, 2009 4:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless I've missed something...
It seems that we’ve blown up the defense and left the offense largely intact. And I will contend that while cutler was certainly our most celebrated offensive player he was not even one of the top five offensive players on the Broncos. With some work he might have become that; but he wasn’t there yet.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
omg...second best offense...no way!!!!!!!
omg…i am way tired of that…like…its all the fault of those dumb fantasy thingies…where yards count for something…like…the ONLY thing that counts is whats on the score board…and…for better or worse…Jay Culter and the broncos were about as totally average as you could get…like 15th or 16th in scoring
soooooo…if we wanna get better…maybe we do have to sorta blow up some of the offense…the red zone and stuff like that
MHR...and proud of it!
by MHRsGirl on Apr 7, 2009 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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