Divining the McDaniels Way, Part 2 - The Running Game
This series is the outcome of a month-long collaboration between nycbroncosfan and broncobear. In general, NYC covered the stats and Doc handled most of the writing and analysis. We hope that it sheds light on some of the questions that have arisen as to just what, exactly, Josh McDaniels has been doing with the New England offense over the past four years. It also looks at Jay Cutler's time as the primary starter in Denver over the past two years to establish where the two Patriots and Broncos do and do not match up. We thoroughly enjoyed working on this project and hope that you will take just as much pleasure in reading it. Hopefully it will answer some of your questions about what to expect of the 2009 Broncos, and we look forward to your comments and critiques. Many thanks to our esteemed colleagues styg50 and hoosierteacher for their input, and to Zappa for his invaluable aid in managing the code and the templates.
Note: In light of Denver's trade of Jay Cutler to the Bears, we decided to push back the schedule of our series. Today we present Part 2, with Part 3 now scheduled for Friday, April 10th and Part 4 following on Tuesday, April 14th.
The Broncos Running Attack
In Part 1 of our look at The McDaniels Way, we provided a view of what new Broncos Head Coach Josh McDaniels may look to achieve on offense in 2009. Part 1 covered more of the general goals - higher efficiency of yards and point-scoring, better control of the game clock, and more success in red-zone and goal-to-go situations. Today, we will address the facet so many of us have/had strongly identified with Broncos football, especially with the noted successes of the recently-departed Mike Shanahan - the Denver running game.
As noted in NYC's The Fall of the Denver Rushing Attack, the Broncos' commitment to the run has waned significantly in recent years. After averaging 508 carries per season from 1995 to 2005, the 2008 Broncos only ran the ball 387 times. While they maintained a strong YPA (Yards Per Attempt) of 4.8, their relatively small number of carries led to fewer first downs via the ground game (103 versus an average of 125/year from 1995-2005) and poor clock control (28:43 in '08 versus 32:15 from '95-'08).
In terms of gross yardage, the falloff went from an average of 2,264 yards per season (1995-2005) to just 1,862 in 2008. The rushing attack also failed to produce big individual games, as the '08 Broncos only topped 175 rushing yards once, although that number was padded by a 71-yard carry by WR Eddie Royal on an end-around (in the crushing home loss to Buffalo, incidentally). Compare that to the Broncos of 1995-2005, who topped 175 yards in a game on an average of 4.6 times per season. Without the benefit of a strong running game, one which never even dominated a single game in 2008, the pressure was focused squarely upon Jay Cutler and the passing attack.
At first glance, the hiring of Josh McDaniels seemed only a continuation of Denver's move to a pass-dominant offense. This is certainly a natural and excusable assumption, as Tom Brady's 4,806 yards and 50 touchdown passes of 2007 quickly come to mind. However, it is important to consider that 2007 may have been an anomaly, a remarkable alignment of the stars which allowed for arguably the greatest offensive performance by a team in any one year. Even so, the '07 Pats ranked 9th in the NFL in rushing attempts with 451 and 5th in rushing touchdowns with 17; while not dominant rushing numbers, they certainly evidence a commitment to the run. The Patriots' 2006 and 2008 numbers show an even greater offensive balance, which we will share in a bit.
So, what can we expect of Josh McDaniels' Denver Broncos when it comes to running the football?
The O-Line
| Performance of Pats and Broncos O-Lineman in 2008 and 2009 Season Age | ||||||||||||
| NE Starters | '09 Age | Starts | Sacks | Pen | Sks+Pen | DEN Starters | '09 Age | Starts | Sacks | Pen | Sks+Pen | |
| LT | Light | 31 | 16 | 7.5 | 1 | 8.5 | Clady | 23 | 16 | 0.5 | 3 | 3.5 |
| LG | Mankins | 27 | 16 | 5 | 2 | 7 | Hamilton | 32 | 16 | 2.5 | 6 | 8.5 |
| C | Koppen | 30 | 16 | 4.5 | 2 | 6.5 | Wiegmann | 36 | 16 | 1 | 3 | 4 |
| RG | Neal(Yates) | 33(29) | 9(7) | 2(6.25) | 2(1) | 4(7/25 | Kuper | 27 | 16 | 0 | 4 | 4 |
| RT | Kaczur(LeVoir) | 30(27) | 14(2) | 4(2) | 3(0) | 7(2) | Harris | 24 | 16 | 2.5 | 2 | 4.5 |
| Tot/Avg | 30.2 | 80 | 31.25 | 11 | 42.25 | 28.4 | 80 | 6.5 | 18 | 24.5 | ||
The issue of injuries may explain some things that came up on video. After watching the six games of film, the only real surprise that Doc had was the uneven work of the Patriots' offensive line. He said,
"I was surprised at how poorly they played in certain areas. That made it hard to obtain or understand some of the info on tendencies. Often, the line wasn't effective enough in the run or, especially, in the passing game. And yet, that's hard to see if you look at the numbers - unless you look carefully.
I watched a lot of running plays that were blown up at or behind the line of scrimmage because the O-Line couldn't move the defenders. Often the runners managed to get small yards anyway, and that's more a tribute to the runners than anything else. The passing problems showed up more in the stats.
However, even after saying that I have to point out the other side: according to FootballOutsiders.com, NE had the 5th-best rate of being stuffed, at 21% (Denver was 1st at 17%). Denver had the #1 run-blocking efficiency - but NE was #2. Again - they are very efficient. But for the Pats, one reason that number is so good was that the RBs commonly broke tackles behind the line, fell forward and almost inevitably gained a couple of yards. They had a very tough group, and adding Jordan to the Broncos, knee surgery and all, is a great addition. They also had the best percentage of 1st downs per carry at 28.3% (Denver was second at 26.6%) even though they were fourth in the league for rushing attempts (513).
A lot of that was the scheme, and some of the rest could be attributed to simple effectiveness at carrying out assignments on the part of the RBs - and to Cassel, who ran often with 73 attempts and a total of 270 yards and a 3.7 average. In his two full seasons, Cutler averaged 50.5 rushes for only 202.5 yards, so the difference there is obvious.
You also have to look at where they run and run well, and where they don't. They weren't productive at left or right end, or at right tackle, although left tackle (except on pass pro) and the middle of the line plays were usually very good."
There are discrepancies between the New England offensive line's certain very good stats and their obvious failures. For example, they were 1st in the league for rushing 1st-downs with 145, but they were only ranked 19th-best in the league converting on 3rd-and-short via the run, a category that is telling for the line. The Patriots' offensive line was quite a mixed bag in 2008, and that showed on the film. We will talk about the passing side of their equation tomorrow but on the rushing side, Doc saw players who were missing assignments and who weren't getting to the second level consistently.
A brief look across the league shows that the Patriots' O-Line is older than the norm, and that the right side in particular saw a lot of injuries over the course of the season, which may be part of the reason that they weren't as good as expected. Their tackles are seven years older than the Broncos', on average. Even factoring in the advanced ages of Casey Wiegmann and Ben Hamilton, the New England line is two years older than the Broncos across the starting five. Their size/weight numbers are roughly comparable to the Broncos.
We asked styg50 about the issue of offensive linemen and aging. Was the gap scheme wearing on the players? Could age, at about 30, be the issue with their poor play, (especially on passing downs)? He said,
"My first thought, is that everybody is different, so some guys might not be affected while other guys are significantly affected. The main trait of the pulling guard(or center) is good footwork, and to a lesser extent the core strength to re-engage quickly on the move, which has "balance" as its primary indicator when watching them. It is reasonable to assume that as a player ages, his footwork might suffer and become "heavier" or slower, but I think this applies more to heavier linemen who stay heavy. O-Linemen are generally no stranger to heavy lifting and maintaining and increasing lean muscle mass, but as they age they need to be open to the idea of increasing flexibility and agility, which should always lean towards playing at lighter and lighter weights.
The plus side of aging as a pulling lineman, is that you have to be able to locate and line up your block, which becomes even more difficult if it is intended to occur at the second level, and that is more about experience than anything. Hamilton and Nalen were good examples of guys who could block out to the third level, which is exceptionally difficult for a lineman, and they could do it because of how quick they were/are and how savvy they are about lining up the block. Rookies and young players didn't stand a chance against them."
Regarding the Broncos, Styg added,
"As to zone-block increasing players' longevity, I think it has more to do with what players have been tapped for zone-block: smarter, lighter, more agile. The smarter could aid them in whole-body health, the lighter reduces Isaac Newton's effect on them, and the agile protects them in the game itself, helping them avoid contortion strains and the like. The zone-block seems as likely to me as any other system to expose players to abuse by virtue of the system itself, but HT can answer that question better than I can. What wears players out more than anything is going to the ground and having to get back up again (barring the occasional 79-yard fumble return, which is more about oxygen than anything) and that occurs a lot in zone-block."
HT (hoosierteacher) was kind enough to weigh in as well. His comments centered on two things - the abilities of the players in terms of balance and flexibility, and their abilities to work together:
"The Denver OLmen are culled from the masses because they have either the inherent ability or trained ability to use flexibility and agility from early on. Teams with less of a focus on pure zone-blocking will age less gracefully. "Big and strong" diminishes over time. Flexibility and agility, if maintained from an early age, can last much longer on the football field.I hate to keep coming back to martial arts. I know you and Styg are experts in the field, while I'm just an amazed spectator. (lol). But you guys will appreciate the analogy. The old man who is a martial-arts master seems to have the advantage over younger men who are more physically fit. In MMA competitions, we never seem to see these old men. But I know that I've been to studios (dojos) where I've seen old (frankly ancient) guys who have techniques and experience to beat up on the younger guys present.While football is a little different, there is a similarity. While age slows all of us, it is going to slow physical qualities (such as strength) quicker than skills that are harder to quantify (such as balance, agility, footwork). Teams that look for these types of players are going to have players with more longevity. They also get the boost of having players that play together longer, which is a key for any offensive line.The only thing that really keeps too many teams from moving towards zone-blocking is the pool of players to draw from. When too many teams try to move towards zone-blocking, the pool decreases. The teams already established in ZB have enough players who have played together in the system, while newer teams will struggle because they have to get more players from the drafts. If enough teams could establish themselves, colleges (the suppliers) would feed the demand, but it would take several years. In the meantime, teams with successful zone-blocking linemen should hold onto what they have, needing only to pick up a player here and there."
Professor Barber, the master instructor who Doc had the privilege to train under in martial arts used to assure him that "old age and treachery will conquer youth and skill." Given that and the direction of our two resident experts, we suspect that the issues of injury to the lower body, combined with a need to frequently adjust to different combinations of players were at the heart of New England's woes along the offensive line.
On the other end of the offensive-line universe, Josh McDaniels has to salivate at the idea of installing his scheme behind what is arguably the best line in the NFL. They are mostly younger (and Casey Wiegmann still has great skills) with Ryan Clady entering only his second year and Ryan Harris just his third (second as a starter). Chris Kuper is looking at only his fourth season. Ben Hamilton is 31, and Wiegmann is pretty spry for an old man (Casey will turn 36 during training camp). Primary backup Kory Lichtensteiger is getting good early reviews in the middle, and Tyler Polumbus showed promise at tackle, even taking some reps at center..
Small wonder, then, that the Broncos' new coach kept Rick Dennison to coach the line and Bobby Turner to coach the running backs. Josh McDaniels is a very smart young man, and those decisions were probably not very difficult for him. The Broncos may need better depth, but the line is first-rate in its current incarnation. After watching this film, Doc appreciated it even more. So will McDaniels. You may not see another season where every Broncos lineman starts all sixteen games, but these guys are very, very good nevertheless.
Much has been made regarding Josh McDaniels' comments on instituting a higher level of 'gap' blocking as well as the zone-block scheme. It is important for the fan to recognize that Denver ran some solid gap-blocking last year, and that Hamilton and Kuper both excel in pulling; so the change should not be a concern. In fact, the reality is that no major changes are indicated. But McDaniels is sitting on something new in how the line and the running backs will function, and he so far isn't letting much slip. McDaniels only said,
"We did more gap schemes in New England, where we're going to pull a guard. The good thing about Denver is they've done those things, and they've got really good guards to be able to do that."
Watching the Broncos O-Line closely, both Hamilton and Kuper, light-footed as guards go, were pulling on several plays each game. The biggest difference Doc sees is that the Broncos were even better at it than New England was.
As an aside, a recent segment on NFL Total Access suggested that Ryan Clady will be the 'Surprise' player of 2009. We can only suggest that the hosts weren't watching much film, as Clady was arguably the great surprise player of 2008. The only shock that he could provide in 2009 is if he's not elevated from Second-Team to First-Team All-Pro.
Ryan Harris was nearly as good, and Denver's pair of tackles is equal or superior to any other set of bookends in the NFL. Kuper has turned into a fine young guard, and if Ben Hamilton is the Broncos' 'weak link' as some have stated, Denver has but some very small problems to deal with. Wiegmann's contract will likely be renegotiated to keep him in town for a couple of more years, and in that time the Broncos will have settled on their backups and groomed their new center. Lichtensteiger may be best at either center or guard, but Polumbus has taken snaps effectively at center as well as at tackle. The Broncos probably need one more good backup, and they have some options already on the practice squad. they will, if our member's drafts are any indication, take another in the draft.
| Rush/Pass Splits | ||||||||||
| Rush % | Pass % | |||||||||
| DEN '07 | 44% | 56% | ||||||||
| DEN '08 | 38% | 62% | ||||||||
| DEN Avg | 39% | 61% | ||||||||
| NE '05 | 42.6% | 57.4% | ||||||||
| NE '06 | 47.3% | 52.7% | ||||||||
| NE '07 | 42.6% | 57.4% | ||||||||
| NE '08 | 46.8% | 53.2% | ||||||||
| NE Avg | 43.1% | 56.9% | ||||||||
In terms of total plays, New England ran the ball 46.8% of the time in 2008. Over the 4-year period of 2005-2008, the Patriots exhibited a 43.1% rush, 56.9% pass balance. Despite their pass-first reputed approach, they like a fairly balanced attack. Meanwhile, the Broncos were the second-most pass-reliant offense in the NFL, behind only Arizona and tied with New Orleans last season. Obviously, Denver's running back injuries and the elevation of Jeremy Bates to play-caller factored in. Bates' preference for passing was quickly obvious to even casual Broncos fans. That reliance on the pass placed a lot on Jay Cutler, but it also led to predictability in the passing game, which we will discuss in Part 3. Few fans will mind the fact that Bates won't be deciding if or when to run the ball in 2009.
However, it should be noted that New England also suffered several injuries to their offensive backfield; top backs Laurence Maroney, LaMont Jordan and Sammy Morris all missing significant time. This forced the Patriots to sign BenJarvus Green-Ellis from their practice squad and give him the bulk of carries for two games. Interestingly, their commitment to the run did not wane - with Green-Ellis as their primary ball carrier in weeks 9 and 10 versus the Colts and Bills, respectively, New England rushed 75 times and Matt Cassel dropped back to pass 70 times. This represents a 51.7% run/pass split. No, the Patriots' and Broncos' backfield situations were not identical, but New England's run commitment with a practice-squad running back may serve to lessen the excuse provided by Denver's injuries.
The acquisitions of running backs with a history of good receiving numbers (and comparatively low miles, despite the issues with Correll Buckhalter's or J.J. Arrington's respective knees) would tend to indicate that Denver will be moving to the New England-style of running back usage. Let's look at what that was last year:
The Patriots' top runner in 2008 was Sammy Morris, with 156 carries for 727 yards, for a 4.7-yard average (he also took some snaps at fullback). LaMont Jordan had 80 carries for 353 yards and a 4.5 average. Kevin Faulk had 507 yards on just 83 carries for an explosive average of 6.0 yards per carry. Meanwhile, 2006 1st-round draft choice Laurence Maroney had only 28 carries for 93 yards, and New England has made it known that they aren't pleased with the young back. Then you have little-known Ben-Jarvus Green-Ellis, who filled in brilliantly with 74 carries and 275 yards. They spread the ball around, and they ran to the tune of 513 carries last season. That's bad news for those Broncos fans that yearn for a 1st-round back pounding and dodging his way into Canton. It seems very unlikely to happen under McDaniels. But it's good news if you like a well-balanced attack.
New England has some great numbers. They are very efficient - They were 6th in the league in big runs (carries of 10 or more yards), with 55 such plays. They were only 10th in the league in yards per carry (4.7), but 4th in rushing touchdowns with 21 in 2008. They know how to score, and the Broncos will benefit from that knowledge. As you'd expect, they don't leave a running back in the game for long. Rotation is common and at times it is a constant. They are into ‘fresh legs'. Some describe an inability of the back to ‘get into a groove' when rotated. That's in opposition to the NE idea of doing a job perfectly in execution each time, regardless. Faulk was at times their first option, or Morris or even Maroney, but they ran a wide variety of plays for all the backs.
We should also look at the scheme that Denver employs. In his article Denver's Unique Running Back System, Doc noted that a Denver running back needs the following qualities:
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They have to put the team before their own stats and ego.
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They have to block, run routes, chip and receive well, in addition to their running skills and intelligence.
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They need excellent field vision, defensive-scheme comprehension and the neuromuscular abilities to see and respond very quickly (advanced proprioception).
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They have to put the coaches' knowledge before their own "I've done it this way my whole life" approach.
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They have to be able to come in from the bench and do their jobs well immediately without needing to ‘get into a groove'.
SlowWhiteGuy wrote,
"I would add one quality that is essential for backs in the Turner/Dennison system. They must trust the system, more than their ability. There actually is nothing that unique about Denver’s zone-blocking system; lots of teams use ZB. What is unique is the way they combine it with the 1-cut system. Denver stresses that the back must wait to make his cut until the backside pursuit has been sealed off. Most backs want to cut into the hole as soon as it opens, but that’s not Denver’s way. In fact you will often hear complaints about runners being too slow to the hole.
One of the reasons that Denver selects back lower in the draft is that backs who are selected more highly tend to have depended on their athletic/physical skill set. They are reluctant to abandon what got them to the pros. Lower round backs tend to be less physically gifted and have made it through hard work honing their technique. They are used to succeeding through study and hard work. For them, trusting the system comes more naturally; it’s an extension of what got them to the pros."
Can the two systems mesh? Absolutely. Denver has gone out in the offseason and added running backs who they feel can integrate into the zone-block scheme, catch passes out of the backfield and block well. They may be running the draw, running up the middle, some to the sides, although less. They will be catching passes, blocking for the pass and creating mismatches. McDaniels said as much the day after the Cutler trade and we were predicting the same before he did. By the way, he was also praising Hillis. Doc feels better now.
| Rushing TDs, First Downs, Fumbles | ||||||||||
| Rush TDs | 1st Dns | Fumbles/Lost | ||||||||
| DEN '07 | 10 | 96 | 30/14 | |||||||
| DEN '08 | 15 | 103 | 18/12 | |||||||
| DEN Avg | 12.5 | 99.5 | 24/13 | |||||||
| NE '05 | 16 | 101 | 19/9 | |||||||
| NE '06 | 20 | 121 | 27/15 | |||||||
| NE '07 | 17 | 124 | 14/6 | |||||||
| NE '08 | 21 | 145 | 17/10 | |||||||
| NE Avg | 18.5 | 122.75 | 19.25/10 | |||||||
More Rushing First Downs - The 2008 numbers jump off the screen - The Patriots moved the chains 145 times via the ground game, while the Broncos only did so on 103 occasions. As NYC mentioned in his earlier piece, every Broncos team which made the playoffs under Mike Shanahan had at least 124 rushing first downs. Granted, that is a correlative statistic, but we can probably all agree that the Broncos need better balance on offense.
Given the number of yards that the Broncos rolled up in '08, you would expect at least an average number of rushing TDs. The lack of that, in our opinion, shows something other than the oft-mentioned 'injuries' excuse. The Broncos were rushing for 4.8 yards per carry. Failing to use the rushing attack was, in our opinion, more of a factor of the play-calling of Bates than any deficiency in the rushing game.
Making a more balanced use of the rushing attack will have the added benefits of eating more of the clock and resting the defense. We believe that McDaniels' greater experience as an offensive coordinator will benefit the Broncos in this area.
Fewer Fumbles - Even more so than interceptions, this statistic may be more about personnel than coaching, but New England has put the ball on the ground less than Denver, and hopefully things will change there as well.
| Rush-Direction Propensity Broken Down by Gap - Broncos '07-'08 and Patriots '05-'08 | ||||||||||
| LE(5) | LT(3) | LG(1) | C(0) | RG(2) | RT(4) | RE(6) | ||||
| DEN '07-'08 | 16.7% | 13.8% | 6.3% | 30.2% | 8.7% | 11.8% | 12.5% | |||
| NE '05-'08 | 11.5% | 13.1% | 12.9% | 29.8% | 14.1% | 12.3% | 6.3% | |||
More inside running - Certainly this may be somewhat attributable to personnel, but scheme was the final determinant of where each team ran. Denver has run for the most part around and behind Ryan Clady, Tom Nalen/Casey Wiegmann and Ryan Harris/Daniel Graham. Meanwhile, New England has run behind their guards almost twice as often as the Broncos have. Of course the retention of offensive-line coach Rick Dennison and running-backs coach Bobby Turner will have a lot to say about the Broncos' running game, but look for McDaniels' single-back sets to get more use out of the 1- and 2-gaps than the Broncos have under Mike Shanahan's tutelage.
From the game films, the Patriots preferred in 2008 to use the draw play heavily and keep their running backs between the tackles. If a back went to the outside, they were usually going to receive, and when they ran there they weren't very productive. The screen pass was an effective weapon for NE and that's inline with their overall preference to keep passes shorter and completions high.
Using the Fullback
If McDaniels goes with the same ideas of a fullback in Denver that he used in New England, it is potentially a good role for Spencer Larsen, who noted that he was uncomfortable handling the ball: in this offense, he wouldn't need to worry. The Pats' fullback, Heath Evans, only had 11 carries for 23 yards over 16 games in 2008, or 0.7 carries per game. The rest of the time when Evans was used (about 1 play in 7), he blocked. The use of Evans in 2008 was basic and for the most part unoriginal, which struck Doc as odd given the range with which they used other weapons. For the most part, he was a blocker - period. While we would like to watch Larsen on the field more and would prefer him at LILB, we could see him being very effective in a Heath Evans-type of role.
Of course, if Coach McDaniels chooses to stay with the idea of a fullback who is essentially there to block, Andrew Pinnock may be the perfect choice, and that would free Larsen to do what we believe he does best - blow people up on special teams and play inside linebacker. Doc has been especially interested in watching this aspect, and he thinks that keeping Pinnock but letting some other backs go (Anthony Alridge, Alex Haynes and P.J. Pope) spoke volumes on McDaniels' part.
The use of Heath Evans is a good illustration of how the Patriots adapted their offense to the players available. Prior to picking up Evans in 2005 (one week after Evans was cut by Miami), the Pats were making use of a 5'10", 217-lb player, Patrick Pass, at fullback. Because of his size and skill set, Pass was greatly used as a receiver and had hauled in 23 receptions prior to being injured in November of 2005. Late in October, Pass was even used as a halfback due to multiple injuries to his backfield mates. However, the switch from the lighter Pass to the 250-pound, hard-blocking Evans eventually brought about a change of scheme.
Injuries to Corey Dillon, Kevin Faulk and Pass pushed Evans into an immediate starting role at halfback, and he excelled with 158 rushing yards on 33 carries in two games. He also was used effectively as a pass-catcher, very much as the Patriots had used Pass. Over the next three seasons, however, Evans got fewer and fewer touches, culminating in just 11 carries and 3 catches in 2008. From Patriots.com following the 2006 season,
"The 6-foot, 250-pounder has spent the majority of the season lining up as the fullback in the I-formation, where he has served as a lead blocker and short-yardage specialist, but has also expanded his role as a pass catcher, even lining up as a split end at times. He has been a big contributor on special teams and is also known as one of the friendliest players in the locker room."
McDaniels may not have liked him receiving, and may not have used him as a running back very much, but Evans was a versatile and effective contributor nonetheless. However, the limits of his use as a runner and receiver show a possible prejudice on McDaniels part, since Evans was a star running back in college, has run very well for New England and showed himself to be a good receiver in 2005. However, as time passed McDaniels' preference for using the fullback became clear - short yardage and lead blocking.
Many Broncos fans were disappointed that Hillis, when at fullback, was not used more as a receiver and in a Howard Griffith-type role before first becoming their star runner and then being injured. That was indicative of the change to Bates' system, such as it was. The modern fullback is being used less and less, both in NE and during this time frame in Denver. Eventually, we may see the change to a FB/H-back (for Denver, the pieces are there), but it isn't happening often or quickly, despite frequent comments about 'H-backs' in the media, a phrase that usually seems to simply mean a tight end who receives. That's not an H-back at all, but we understand what they are saying.
Still, change is the only constant. This year's draft is relatively deep in fullbacks. Andrew Pinnock, if he sticks, could get some competition in Denver, but it's not a priority. In 2008, the fullback slot went to Michael Pittman, then Hillis, then to Spencer Larsen, and to heck in a handcart by the time the season mercifully closed. Let's hope for greener pastures this year. Pinnock is just what McDaniels usually wants at the position - a strong blocker who is team oriented.
Balancing the Run and the Pass
When watching film on the Pats, the issue of run/pass balance came out in the difference between halves. New England was 26th league-wide in first-half runs called, 14th in the second half. These run/pass ratios are exactly the theories that went into building the West-Coast Offense, but despite a common misperception, the Patriots run a modern variant on the Erhardt-Perkins system. Their approach is less smash-mouth. It uses the pass more. However, since Erhardt is reputed to have said, "Pass to score, run to win", the McDaniels version of this approach (which was originally installed by Charlie Weis and has morphed and adapted to changes in personnel often since) uses the pass more in the first half and runs more in the second. A glance at their record also confirms that teams which have the lead in the second half will tend to run more.
But running the ball is often only half the battle on offense. Passing is the dominant attack for most teams, and both Denver and New England have exhibited that. On Friday, we will examine the passing game in Part 3 of our series.
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Comments
I doubt this could be more informative.
Fantastic work, and wonderful for its thoroughness.
Just one small quibble. It’s probably worth noting in your linemen comparisons that sacks allowed is both a measure of both lineman and QB play. As much as we’re in an ‘out-with-the-old’ mood here, Cutler’s mobility had to make the O Line’s stats look better, just as Cassell’s (I think) statue-like aspects and de facto rookie performance almost certainly push the NE numbers upwards.
Like I said, this is worth noting, but it’s an insubstantial complaint. Great, great stuff.
by Chibronx on Apr 7, 2009 11:48 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, ChiBronx
i had that impression until I broke down the film. The upshot was that he pulls down the ball and scampers very well. I was surprised.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
By "he" do you mean Cassel?
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Apr 7, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surprising
What did you find on the Broncos’ side of things? I’m as a big a Clady fan as there is, but nobody allows just 1/2 sack without some help….
Thanks again for this. I hope you’re taking my mild criticisms in the spirit of making this excellent work the best it can be….
by Chibronx on Apr 7, 2009 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think that he was incredible
I take your point – and Hamilton got the higher rate of sacks and penalties, but he was also a great, experienced guard to help Clady. Sometimes they moved the players away from Clady when he was doing so well – I recall seeing Abrhan moving to Harris’ side and doing little better. I think that this coming season we’ll see teams game-planing him a lot.
What did you find on the Broncos’ side of things?
If you are asking if the O line was really that good – Yes they were. Cutler did fine, and this is no knock on him, but the O line was flat out incredible. And thatnks for your discussion and interest – it isn’t any issue except a good one!
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
To add to doc...
Clady and Harris may not only be the best pair of tackles in the league right now. They may be the bast pair of young tackles in many decades. I’m trying to think back to the last time a team had two young tackles, this good, at the same time. The Broncos faced some of the best pass rushers in the game, Abraham, Peppers, and basically stoned them.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice work fellas...
Recommended and Buzzed!
There is only One Moment—this moment—the Eternal Moment of Now
by sirsam on Apr 7, 2009 11:55 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks,
The in depth research required for this article is much appreciated. It’s not only making me feel better about next year, I’m starting to believe we may suprise a few people.
by diviesti on Apr 7, 2009 12:07 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
NYC and Doc...
This series is ridiculous. In a very good way. There isn’t better breakdown anywhere outside of film rooms in various NFL headquarters across the US.
I can’t tell you how much this is appreciated and both of you should be working for KC Joyner, well, maybe he should be working for you.
I am so impressed.
Well done.
by super7 on Apr 7, 2009 12:43 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree and I am in awe.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Apr 7, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Feature back...
It seems to be a common opinion that NE doesn’t, and hence we won’t, use a feature back. I believe that opinion may be off. When NE got Corey Dillon in 2004 they used him in just that role; he ran 345 times for 1635 yards. Even as injuries and age took their toll they still gave him about 200 carries per year. They also went out in 2006 and used a 1st round pick to draft Laurence Maroney.
To me that says that if McD has feature runner he has no problem using him as such. At the same time, in the absence of a true feature runner he will go to RB by committee rather than arbitraily designate someone as the feature back. It’s all in keeping with the “do what works” philosophy.
When NE has deep threat personnel they throw deep; when dink and dunk is what they have then dink and dunk is what they do.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 12:50 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
SWG
I’m not sure what if anything that says about McDaniels – he wasn’t calling plays until 2005. They did use a 1st on Maroney (and two others were 2nd rounders, as we mentioned, so they are willing to draft RBs high) but Maroney only got 28 carries. Since he hasn’t panned out that well, you may be right. When I listened to McD’s presser, I didn’t get that impression, but I’m open.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what you are saying...
and you may be correct. At the same time, they have been checking out Moreno. I think McD may be planning to go either way based on how the draft falls out. If Morena or another good back falls to us in the draft they may take him. If not he is probably comfortable going with RBBC.
BTW: This and the previous piece are both outstanding! I’m was actually hoping the first piece got re-run since it kinda got hyjacked by the trade.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks SWG
With the addition of the 18th pick, I think that they should look hard at Moreno. Having Hillis and Moeno doing a Morris/Faulk thing wouldn’t bother me at all, and at least 3 other backs can expect carries/receptions. I would love to see a lot of D in Draft, but I’m open on this one.
Thanks for your comments and Q’s. Nice point on the reprint – how about just a link for now?
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've got it bookmarked...
but a lot of readers may have missed it. This is the stuff you cannot get from the MSM. Too bad. Their loss; our gain.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
One question:
However, it is important to consider that 2007 may have been an anomaly, a remarkable alignment of the stars which allowed for arguably the greatest offensive performance by a team in any one year. Even so, the ’07 Pats ranked 9th in the NFL in rushing attempts with 451 and 5th in rushing touchdowns with 17;
How much of that was because their offense was on the field for so much? Did they run more total plays than everybody else?
Just curious.
by Hooper on Apr 7, 2009 12:54 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope. 2nd in the league with 1058 in '07
That’s according to Doug, whose work on stats amazes me.
Doc
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 12:59 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I should note additionally...
that New England was only 5th in the league in pass attempts on ’07
by Douglas A. Lee on Apr 7, 2009 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
It’s hard to say this concisely, but your research project makes me realize the extent to which Broncos fans have become steeped in a certain kind of football. To see that NE put up all those points with the same number of passing plays as the ‘08 Broncos just blows my mind. My memories of the post-Elway Broncos are defined by things like the 2002 season, where the offense rolled up yards, the defense allowed few, and they limped to 9-7. The Patriots’ approach to football is just so radically different, and I think this series is a big help in allowing all of us to grasp that. The number of things the team has to do differently to make so much more out of less must be enormous.
By the way, coldhardfootballfacts.com — insightful, but really a bunch of annoying M*ssholes — has a post-Cutler article that breaks this down very, very effectively.
by Chibronx on Apr 7, 2009 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We saw the article
Yeah, they have attitude, but hey, it’s the sports world. No worries. We pulled stats – mostly Doug did – from different sites to try to ge a ‘flavor’ of the situation, and they were one.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those guys are seriously over-impressed
with their own MOEs but provide almost no validation of them. Football Outsiders is better, Advanced NFL Stats even better than them, at least in terms of the quality of their statistical analysis.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like them all in different ways
Rather than choose a methodology, I liked taking stats of all kinds – including FA and PFR, hosted.stats, etc. – to find consitency of factors that permitted analysis. Doug was the wizard there, but I got to see his approach and we blended everything we could. My own personal assumption is that each of them had good things to offer, attitude aside. Doug and I were talking last night and today about the difference in slant on each site – remarkable, to me at least.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I looked a little deeper, though, because I was curious about this. New England ran the ball on 43.5% of their plays in 2007 – 19th overall in the league. Denver ran it 45.4% of the time, which was 13th overall. The reason New England is 5th on total attempts is because their total number of plays is indeed quite a bit greater than most of the league. Only the Saints have more total plays, but they also ran the ball a mere 37.5% of the time.
In short, both Denver and New England had a roughly average pass/run ratio compared to the rest of the league. So I don’t think we should expect as much of a change in the ratios, though there might be a change in the numbers (especially if the defense can ever get off the field).
I certainly don’t mean this to rebut anything you wrote (which is a good, because it doesn’t). You just got me curious about it all, and I wanted to know how the pass-run balance compared.
by Hooper on Apr 7, 2009 2:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's possible...
but I think NE learned an important lesson in the SB, and not the lesson the MSM spouts. NE lost the SB because they failed to control the clock in the 4th quarter. They had the ball and went down the field to score the go-ahead TD. But because they relied on their passing game instead of mixing in enough ruinning, they left too much time on the clock. Lots of “experts” will talk about clock management in terms of conserving time; very few seem to stress the importance of clock management in terms of not leaving enough time for the other team. That requires timely running.
After than experience, plus with the loss of Brady, I think they learned that you have to maintain the run in order to control the clock. With cutler we might have seen more of a 2007 NE approach; with Orton/Simms I think we will see more of the 2008 NE approach. Only time will tell.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd agree, guys
I have a caveat. During the SB for the 2007 season, the O line of the Pats was exposed. That led to the 5 sacks, but also an atrocious per attempt number for running the ball – 16 attempts for 45 yards, or 2.8 ypc. While I agree that the number of fushes was miserly, that 2.8 ypc really made a difference. The Pats seemed to decide that they couldn’t run and didn’t really try – the O line was being hammered each attempt and the runner wrapped up easily. What you have siad s dead on, but that may be a big reason why.
I realize that I’m and O line kind of guy (currently in heaven with ours) but I don’t know if you can separate the performance of their line from the inability to control the clock.. IMO, it’s integral.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a caveat to your caveat :)
The Pats in the SB were flat compared to the Giants, the result, I think, of having to be “up” enough to win 18 times in a row. If they hadn’t been flat it would been the Giants’ defensive line that would have been “exposed”. The difference in intensity minimized the Pats’ strengths and maximized the Giants’ strengths. But given the situation as it existed on the field, the Pats being unable to run, I think your analysis hits the nail on the head. The Pats didn’t run because they couldn’t. They passed because they had to and, the deficiencies (in that game) of their passing offense notwithstanding, the passing game held up better than the running game primarily due to Brady’s amazing situational awareness, which even a fierce pass rush couldn’t blunt entirely.
I, too, am in heaven with our O-line, and think Orton or Simms is going to be ecstatic when he finds what it’s like to play behind it. In keeping not only the running backs coach and the line coach but all the starters and most of the reserves on that unit, McDaniels has shown that he truly knows what doesn’t need to be fixed but can be “left alone”. In all the glitz of Cutler’s 4500 yards a lot of league observers didn’t appreciate where the true brilliance of the 2008 Broncos lay. Clady and Harris were simply phenomenal, and the weak link of the line, Hamilton, was so only compared to the brilliance elsewhere.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Apr 8, 2009 8:48 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your numbers are slightly different than ours. I believe the difference is sacks. They are not considered pass attempts, but change the splits somewhat. Also, note that the ’08 Broncos only ran 38% of the time – barely more than the Saints in ’07 which you noted.
by Douglas A. Lee on Apr 7, 2009 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow! Very Impressive! Def. one of the best posts I have read on MHR in the year I have been here.
by ThorpeBroncosfan on Apr 7, 2009 1:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
To say I am impressed is the understatement of the year---WOW,
nyc, Doc, you have certainly out did yourself with this one.
Great Read—with more to come, again WOW! rec’d
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
by UB3 on Apr 7, 2009 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent Breakdown
Broncobear this is really good. Only been on here the last month or so. The whole MHR staff is top notch. Keep up the fantastic work.
by bchiper on Apr 7, 2009 1:58 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you - and welcome to the community!
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 7, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
A zone blocking clarification...
the distribution of where the Broncos run may be skewed by the ZB/1-cut system. Because their system is so heavily based on the cut-back, the Broncos typically start running plays wider than where they actually want to go, at least the ZB plays. Hence if they want to run at the C/G they start the play toward the OT. The Broncos do run some straight man-blocking plays, especially up the gut, but that’s a minority of their running plays.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 7, 2009 2:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
YES!!
I was hoping someone would make a comment like this. I realy don’t think McDaniels gives a flying factoid about the stats. He is going to scheme around the opponents weaknesses. One week we may see a ton of Hillis in a one-cut ZB. The next week we may throw on 65% of the plays and the next week we get a dose of Kuper and Hamilton pulling and Pinnock lead blocking up the middle for four yards and a cloud of dust. I am excited as hell about our prospects this year on Offense, Defense and Kicking. Thank you broncobear and NYC for the outstanding analysis. You put in a lot of work and the result is supurb. Highly recommemded!
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
by firstfan on Apr 7, 2009 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My feeling exactly firstfan, McD even said as much---customize each game plan to fit the opposition each
and every week.
you said it better firstfan….
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
by UB3 on Apr 7, 2009 8:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing piece!
You guys continue to leave every other site in the dust! Keep up the excellent work!
If we could have just screwed another head on his shoulders, he would have been the greatest QB who ever lived.
by c_style on Apr 7, 2009 2:31 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Double D's rocked it!
Doc and NYC, you guys really hit it out of the park on this one. Does anyone else get the feeling that MHR is “BroncoHeaven”?
Excellent work, both of you.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast
by Steve O' on Apr 7, 2009 4:14 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I can't say much more than has already been expressed,
but feel the need to say thank you anyway. I read every word and stat and loved it. Very helpful. Thanks again.
by NedBronco on Apr 7, 2009 4:24 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent, excellent analysis!!
Kudos to Broncobear and Nycbroncosfan for their perspicuity in this report.
One poster on another board expressed concern if Simms won the starting position because Clady would not then be protecting the QB’s blind side. This article reveals how excellent Harris was, too, so I don’t share that concern.
I really hope the coaches give Hillis a chance to compete at RB. I can’t think of anyone who could strike more fear into tacklers than he, on any down, anywhere on the field. But they do have an excellent group, IMO . . . no “stars,” but just a solid group.
I believe, behind this line, along with the Broncos’ other weapons, that Orton is going to surprise the bejeebers out of some people. You bet McDaniels should be salivating.
Never argue with a fool, lest you take on his appearance. - my daddy
by AZDynamics on Apr 7, 2009 4:42 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoa!! Good one AZ
perspicuity – The quality of being clear to the underestanding, lucid.
Your points concerning Hillis are perfectlu clear to me!
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
by firstfan on Apr 7, 2009 7:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
blown away
great article, obviously with tons of work and thought put into it. very illuminating as the transformation of the running game is one of the things im most interested to see under McD.
by sleepydog on Apr 7, 2009 7:55 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Part 2
This is an amazingly detailed analysis. I am in awe of the effort put into it and look forward to the other parts. I hope the writers are receiving adequate compensation for their labors. Keep up the good work!
by AZBroncofan on Apr 7, 2009 8:50 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Incredible Series So Far
I love how detailed MHR is on breaking down the actual game. As much as many people are hating on McD, I’m excited to see what he can do, and am perfectly willing to give Orton a chance.
Go Broncos!!
by powderaddict on Apr 8, 2009 9:59 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
When is the book coming out on Amazon?
This is an amazing, in-depth, professional series that should have sports journalists shaking in their boots. The MHR community is lucky to have you guys. Your hard work and analysis is greatly appreciated. I can’t wait for the 3rd installment.
by rollinthunder on Apr 8, 2009 12:10 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
This is the best set of articles I've seen since the fabled Lynch series
I especially like the observation that, though the Broncos and Patriots lines were both good, the Patriot backs helped the line whereas the Broncos line helped the backs. In cutting Alridge, the only true scatback the Broncos had, it seems to me McDaniels signaled his intentions. The common denominators of the backs he’s kept and acquired seem to be that 1) they’re all good receivers and 2) as a group, given the variation between power and speed backs, they finish runs strongly. Given that Hillis has the best hands on the team, finishes runs probably better than anyone else, and has awfully good speed for a truck, that bodes well for his future under McDaniels.
I don’t think anyone will be a primary back in McDaniels’ system. I think he’ll avoid wearing hs best back down that way. What I expect is one of the backs — Hillis would be my choice — will be first among equals. I expect the running game to be rejuvenated under McDaniels, because I think he’s smart enough not to get away from it when it’s working, especially when the Broncos have a lead and want to work the clock and keep the defense fresh.
I see the offensive line as the bedrock strength of this team, followed closely by our receivers. In ways large and small, conscious and unconscious, we validate our choices and commitments. Jay was Shanny’s man, and the remarkable line he put together in record time, and the receiving corps he built, showed the player he’d committed himself to in the best possible light. It will do the same for whoever McDaniels installs behind center. McDaniels clearly showed what he valued most in the team he’d inherited by who he chose to keep (players and coaches). How he uses those assets is the big question. I can’t wait to see the next installment in this series. Fantastic work, guys.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Apr 8, 2009 12:44 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no shame
Never did.
John Lynch: The Decision
Part One: Hoosier’s safety breakdown is worth the price of admission (which is free, but you get my point.)
The strong safety is an interesting animal. He is typically the “lesser” of the two safeties in terms of zone coverage (the heart of the safety position), but is also more versatile. Teams generally take a player to be a free safety, and the “ideal” safety gets the “free” spot. It is odd to think that the “strong” position is often the “second place” position, but there is no shame in getting second place. The player that is the strong safety is typically more suited to play the position anyway.
Part Two: A look at Lynch’s paly during 2007. Enjoy the time warp.
As the fourth quarter began, Lynch flew in with a classic hit on the FB, causing two things to happen. The first was that Lynch got his first ding of the season, a calf strain, which he shook off and returned two plays later. The second was that, once he returned, running plays where he lined up weakside were changed, audibled out of and generally sent to the strongside. When he was in his deep zone, passes went to the other side. Now, I am not saying that the coaches schemed away from Lynch, but in the final analysis, the players played away from Lynch. It took one half of one game, but Lynch was back up to speed.
Part Three: This one is kind of boring, but there is a predraft analysis of Woodyard and Barrett included.
Woodyard knows how to get to the football, plain and simple. He has excellent instincts and flies to the ball carrier. He is aggressive, attacks the line of scrimmage, and makes plays all over the field. He is a good athlete with very good speed, and can chase plays down. Most of his experience is as a linebacker, but he has played some safety, and could project to both positions in the NFL. Woodyard is a team leader, plays hard on the field, and works hard off it as well.
Part Four: A look at his decision to stay or go prior to the 2008 training camp mess where he left at the last second. I had to laugh at this “analysis” of what Slowik was capable of:
1. The promotion of his coach, new Defensive Coordinator Bob Slowik. Slowik likes to play Lynch at SS, Lynch likes to play at SS. Check. Slowik relies on pressure, and though we have yet to learn of his scheme for the coming season, history says that Slowik brings pressure from wherever he can. No concretized philosophy will stand between Slowik and maximum pressure on weakest vulnerabilities. This plays to the strengths of an intelligent SS. Lynch is an intelligent SS. Check. In short, Slowik knows how to use Lynch the best way possible.
Amnesty, the idea that you can forgive transgressions against you, gives as much to one side, as it does the other. It has the noble quality of bestowing mercy to both parties.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 8, 2009 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for that blast from the past, Styg
I don’t think we ever did learn of Slowik’s “scheme for the coming season.” Maybe it was to lull the other team’s offense into overconfidence. I have to disagree about one thing, though. No part of that series was “kind of boring.” The analysis of Woodyard was amazingly prescient. That didn’t stick in my memory because when I read it Woodyard hadn’t turned out to be one of the steals of the draft (or not-draft?) yet. The first two sentences especially really nailed it.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Apr 8, 2009 7:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slowik didn't have a scheme.
Shanny seemed happy that he was just scheming differently each week.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Apr 9, 2009 6:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great points, spock
I don’t think anyone will be a primary back in McDaniels’ system. I think he’ll avoid wearing his best back(s) down that way. What I expect is one of the backs — Hillis would be my choice — will be first among equals. I expect the running game to be rejuvenated under McDaniels, because I think he’s smart enough not to get away from it when it’s working, especially when the Broncos have a lead and want to work the clock and keep the defense fresh.
Yes. Even is we use a higher draft pick on a back – and if we do, it will have to be someone else who is multi-talented – that pick as well will probably be used in much that same way.
Over the course of a season, few players escape injury. They may be minor or not, but they occur. Josh mentioned that in his radio interview, and it’s a very good point. RBs are the only players who give themselves up to be tackled and leveled, play after play (WRs do, if they are the receiver, but usually they have less catches over the course of the season) and their rate of injury is high. Having multiple backs who can do multiple things is a wise approach to minimizing that problem. So is rotating them to let each heal.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 8, 2009 2:58 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there a way
to help the players on the sidelines stay stretched and limber? I would hate to se a replay of last years’ injury report.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
by firstfan on Apr 8, 2009 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not usually a case of keeping stretched...
it’s keeping muscles warm between series. If you watch the sidelines you’ll notice that a lot of teams have several exercise bikes set up so that receivers and RB can keep their muscles warm.
My feeling about the injuries last year, was that they had nothing to do with stretching/conditioning and everything to do with hits from awkward angles do to out of position play.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Apr 8, 2009 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my experience
The biggest culprit in hamstring injuries is excessive use of the leg machine, especially for the quads. Since it’s harder to balance the hamstring muscles,The quads get increasingly strong and our of balance.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 9, 2009 2:30 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Broncos could use your expertise, Bear
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Apr 9, 2009 8:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK I'm stupid
Are you saying the exercize bike may be harming due to imbalance between Quads and Hammy’s? So are you respectfully disagreeing with SWG. I am just an old Alaskan sourdough and don’t know sh** from Shinola bur SWG’s comment about staying warm seemed to make a lot of sense to me.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
by firstfan on Apr 9, 2009 8:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They both do.
Like most things in medicine, this isn’t an x or y situation. Here’s the thing – range of motion, which is improved by stretching, is generally speaking a good thing. With a greater ROM, the tendency to tear muscles reduces. so, when you read that some people attribute this issue to not stretching, they might be right, at least in part.
When SWG says that the bikes are there to stay warm (in the muscular sense) in order to reduce injury, he’s right. Failing to warm up or to stay warm properly and then trying to accelerate quickly in sports is a good way to get injured. In fact – contrary to what most people do, you should warm up Before stretching to get good results.
When I also note that the biggest culprit in this specific injury is over-development of the quatratus group which functions in opposition to the hamstrings, and that this problem is increased by using machines such as a Nautilus machine and by over-lifting without working enough to develop the hamstrings, that’s clinical fact. I checked out my answer with a few trainers who train professional football players to get a specific response, including a guy from Velocity Sports Performance.
They are all true. You could add the importance of proper hydration – getting dehydrated during activity can also increase the risk of this injury. It’s not so much x or y, it’s more that x, y, z and q are all true. Medicine isn’t always simple, but preventing this injury is – you just need to work with all the factors.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 9, 2009 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
MHR University?
Heck! You guys are the MHR Think Tank!
Congrats on part 2, and keep it coming! Two thumbs up!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Apr 8, 2009 5:36 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting breakdown
I seem to recall our offensive line last year being a tale of two halves. They were dealing with injuries early in the year and didn’t seem to come around until Stephen Neal returned, coming off PUP.
First eight games: 28 sacks allowed
Last eight games: 19 sacks allowed
I look specifically to Week 9, when the Pats faced the Colts, as the turning point for our offensive line. If you look at the stats, you’ll notice the Pats didn’t give up a sack in that game and the one right after against the Bills. They seemed to play much better during the final stretch last year.
Also, Maroney only had 28 carries last year because he’s had a chronic shoulder injury (which planted him straight on IR early in the season), which has nothing to do with how “displeased” the Patriots may or may not be with him.
Anyway, this is an excellent analysis. Good job =)
by NESilver on Apr 9, 2009 11:52 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, NE. Yes, in our section on Friday we went into that. Good call
I seem to recall our offensive line last year being a tale of two halves. They were dealing with injuries early in the year and didn’t seem to come around until Stephen Neal returned, coming off PUP.
First eight games: 28 sacks allowed
Last eight games: 19 sacks allowed
Yes, in our section on Friday we went into that. Good call.
As far as the year goes – many lines do better as the season goes on and they learn to trust each other, but for the purposes of considering overall performance the difference was substantial. I understand that there were a couple of games with few or no sack issues, but what do you attribute the problems to over the course of the season? BTW – welcome, and bring us whatever insight you can. We appreciate it.
As far as Maroney – that comment is based on quotes from three sources. Perhaps you could show me a different side? – I’d like to hear more about that. I’m aware of the injury issue, but there was a considerable mention in the available media that there is discomfort on NE’s side regarding how he will work out. I’m very open to the MSM just being the MSM, but can only pass along what is ‘known’. Perhaps you could show me a different side – I’d like to hear more about that.
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 9, 2009 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
O-line & Maroney Issues
I attribute our offensive line woes in the beginning of the year to two things – injuries and Matt Cassel’s inexperience. The injuries are self-explanatory. Neal was out for the first half of the year and I believe some of our backups were also battling injuries (this went as far back as training camp and preseason), so we were stuck with Billy Yates filling in. Add on the Cassel factor (who was finally starting his first game since high school), and it was a good recipe for sacks. Cassel played it safe and was in more of a “game manager” mode early in the year, so he was more prone to holding onto the ball too long as well as stepping into defenders rather than away from them. His pocket presence was pretty bad early in the year, but he improved dramatically as the season went along in this regard and it was obvious that he needed some time to adjust to the NFL’s game speed. With improvement to the O-line later on and Cassel getting settled in, the sack numbers went down.
On the Maroney thing, I don’t like to simply go along with what the media says, because they often assume that once a player is struggling that they’re on the verge of being cut or they’re in Belichick’s doghouse. A perfect example of this is Matt Cassel during preseason last year. The media saw that he was unable to lead a touchdown drive throughout the entire preseason and automatically figured he was going to be cut in favor of Matt Gutierrez (and they also still had the Miami game in mind from ‘07, where he was yanked after throwing an interception return for a TD). This obviously wasn’t the case. I think the same applies to Maroney, to a certain extent.
The Patriots have platooned Maroney ever since he’s been here, so I think any assertions of him being expected to “carry the load” all on his own are exaggerated greater than they should be. His main issue is durability (specifically, that darn shoulder) and is probably caused by the fact that he runs too upright. What the media never tells you is that our other running back, Sammy Morris, has missed nearly the same amount of games as Maroney since he’s been here. Over the past two seasons, Maroney has played in 16 games out of 32 while Morris has played in 19 out of 32. The higher expectations undoubtedly come from Maroney’s status as a first round pick.
The media thought Maroney turned the corner at the end of ’07, where he started running wild and pretty much sealed the win for us in the AFC Championship game against the Chargers. They were consequently disappointed when he seemed “tentative” and appeared to be regressing at the beginning of ’08, but it became obvious he was trying to play through injury. A lot of fans in New England consider this his “prove it” year, me included. I expect him to do well this season, barring any unforeseen setbacks.
So, in short, I think the grumblings about the Patriots being unhappy with Laurence are pure speculation from a media standpoint. It may well be true, but you don’t hear about that kind of thing coming from the Patriots because they keep that type of info close to the chest. We’ll see this season, as it’s more affordable for the Pats to keep Maroney rather than release him, and he’ll be in his contract year (if I remember correctly) so I expect him to run with a chip on his shoulder.
by NESilver on Apr 9, 2009 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, NE
Nice to have you stop in – I hope that you’ll give us some feedback on the next two sections as well.
The Patriots have platooned Maroney ever since he’s been here, so I think any assertions of him being expected to "carry the load" all on his own are exaggerated greater than they should be.
As far as platooning – You bet. McD spoke since arriving here on the benefits that he see in that approach, and I personally agree. I don’t see that as being a matter of who is ‘in’ or who is not. It’s just a way of keeping people fresher, since very few RBs make it through the season uninjured. I don’t expect the Pats to release him, and didn’t before we spoke. Perhaps is would just have been best to say that they were disappointed with his level of production – the injury explains why, and that isn’t to say that any action is arranted or expected or that they are unhappy with him personally. Any time you have a #1 and he’s injured, you’re disappointed.
As far as Morris – I noticed that he lined up at FB when Evans was injured, and hence his greater than normal production. Quite a player, as is Faulk. Green-Ellis did well for you when he came in, and you ran more than your season average during the games that he played. Good young man. Five TDs with his # of carries isn’t shabby at all. Will you miss Jordan?
Hillis in '09
by Emmett Smith on Apr 9, 2009 4:12 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Looking forward to the next two
As far as platooning – You bet. McD spoke since arriving here on the benefits that he see in that approach, and I personally agree. I don’t see that as being a matter of who is ‘in’ or who is not. It’s just a way of keeping people fresher, since very few RBs make it through the season uninjured. I don’t expect the Pats to release him, and didn’t before we spoke. Perhaps is would just have been best to say that they were disappointed with his level of production – the injury explains why, and that isn’t to say that any action is arranted or expected or that they are unhappy with him personally. Any time you have a #1 and he’s injured, you’re disappointed.
Exactly! I agree with everything you’ve said here.
As for Lamont Jordan, us Pats fans enjoyed watching him run and wish him well. The guy runs hard and it’s fun watching him bulldoze into the defense for extra yards. That said, I think most of us knew he would be a one-year “rental” so his departure wasn’t much of a surprise. He also missed eight games for us last year and we have a similar type of RB in Morris, so he was expendable given the number of backs we had. Plus, we replaced him with Fred Taylor, who’s a pretty good back himself!
I was pretty bummed to see Gaffney leave us, however. I felt he was pretty underrated given the role he had with us while he was here. You guys landed a pretty clutch receiver (ignore his drop against Indianapolis last year – that is the exception rather than the norm with him).
by NESilver on Apr 9, 2009 5:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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