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MOCKS I like

There's a profusion of MOCKS out there right now, and I have to admit that not every one of them makes sense, so it's a pleasure to see one that 'makes the grade.'

I won't bother with a long build up here. So, from one of the 'boys from Oconomowoc,' Randall Weida of FFToolbox:

1/ - #12) - Tyson Jackson (DE34)

1/ - #18) - Brian Cushing (OLB34)

2/ - #48) - Ron Brace (DT34)

3/ - #79) - Rashad Johnson (FS)

3/ - #84) - Jonathan Luigs (OC/G)

There's more picks in the actual draft -- of course -- but like many MOCKs it only gives us a few rounds.

I'll respond to comments instead of attempting a lengthy analysis at this point. I will say that I consider this MOCK as nearly ideal in terms of meeting our needs as well as selecting players at appropriate ranges.

What do you think? And why?

 

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

1 recs  |  Comment 20 comments

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nice

but i doubt brace is there when we pick in the second…

by mast on Apr 8, 2009 8:13 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

That's possible

I think Brace has had an upswing lately that’s inflated his value. We do know that there will be competition for 3-4 appropriate players but that’s already resulted in an inflated estimation of Brace’s value. I think assigning Brace to us at #48 is hardly far fetched. Quite the contrary, in fact he goes to us in many high quality MOCKs.

The downside is that Brace isn’t worth more than the #48 pick, even though he’s been embraced by some members with a little too much exuberance, perhaps because he’s offers an alternative to picking Raji in the 1st.

People are going to disagree about the ranking of specific players. I don’t presume that I can scout players, but I do take my guidance from good sources.

Scott Wright, a former NFL scout and owner of Scott Wright’s Draft Countdown, has Brace as the #55 ranked player and going to Jacksonville at #39. So, in his mock, which was done early last month (pre- Cutler trade), he does have Brace going earlier. He also has us taking Raji with the 1st pick and ‘Ziggy’ Hood with our #48, and I have to say I’d like that even more. I can only wonder who he’d have us picking at #18.

I see that Walter Cherepinsky of WalterFootball has us taking Brace in the 2nd, too. And his MOCK is very up to date, and he also has a high quality site. Some of the other MOCKers at FFT also assign Brace to us, too.

MOCKs may deviate from expectations in minor ways but if they’re well-designed and make no major errors then I have to give them credit.

by Colinski on Apr 8, 2009 8:53 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

sign me up for raji and hood

that is darn good.

Amnesty, the idea that you can forgive transgressions against you, gives as much to one side, as it does the other. It has the noble quality of bestowing mercy to both parties.

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 8, 2009 9:21 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

too bad it's old

Wright is a good source but he’s been busy, too busy to compose a new MOCK (he will soon).

Our chances for Brace are better than for Raji. And I’m afraid that Ziggy probably won’t still be there at #48.

by Colinski on Apr 8, 2009 9:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

FFT's stats

I found something interesting:

http://www.fftoolbox.com/team_page.cfm?nfl_team=DEN&show=draft

It shows the statistics for our draft picks by all their MOCKsters.

by Colinski on Apr 8, 2009 9:22 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't like Brace and...

I don’t think Johnson will be available in the third. People tend to forget that while B.J. Raji was getting double teamed, Brace was free to make plays on a consistent basis, and never really did. He seems like another big bust to me. I love Rashad Johnson, and I’ll be posting a seven round mock involving him as the 48th pick in the NFL Draft in 2009!

by Sayre111589 on Apr 8, 2009 11:08 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

that was my thought regarding Johnson

It will be close. His position immediately after the season and though the all star games rose at that point but he’s fallen somewhat lately. It’s not so much because evaluators have turned off on him but the infusion of players into the upper ranks. He was considered a mid to late 2nd rounder at his peak but most good MOCKs have allowed him to slide since around January or a little later.

Just to show one — WalterFootball has him going at #77, 2 spots ahead of our 3a pick. FFT and WF are agreeing that he goes around that spot. Wright has him as the #46 BPA (#51 in his old MOCK), so it looks like he would go higher based on this. DrafTek’s simulation (revision 34) has him going at #71 (to Oak.), so it’s close according to them.

I’d settle for ‘a’ Safety, and Chung or Vaughn would work. I’d actually prefer Johnson but I’d be happy with one of the comparable Safeties in this range. There are some others, too, such as McBath and Martin

by Colinski on Apr 8, 2009 11:53 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trust Me

If there was a way we could get him in the third round, I would not complain! I love him as a prospect, and I think he has that “it” factor people always talk about. He is a good leader and an example for the other players. He has a chip on his shoulder, and being drafted in round three would only add to that.

by Sayre111589 on Apr 9, 2009 8:15 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing 2-3 cusp for him

I’ll also say that he would be a perfect fit for us but his placement as a 2-3 is poor for us. There’s also a conflict with our need to add to the front seven on defense. There’s a little room to maneuver because of the amount of high picks but adding even more to the front seven (if possible) seems desirable.

Next year is very good for Safeties so I’d resist the temptation to think we have to go ‘all out’ to fix Safety this year. Moreover, the odds are always long for picking up any individual player, because there are many teams picking. We’re trying to maximize utility rather than focus getting a particular individual. The Broncos’ Big Board will reflect how they feel about Rashad Johnson and if he’s the BPA and meets positional criteria at the point that we pick then we’ll take him. It would have been ideal if we had more 2nd round picks but we don’t. I can’t say in advance that he’d be the best pick, even though I like him a lot. To me, it’s more a question of what’s the best draft strategy than ‘who’ is the best player or ‘how’ good they are. I don’t see a real difference in our player assessment on him. However, I’m a little more sanguine about the idea of picking a McBath, etc., later on, and that’s despite having placed a heavy emphasis on the Safety position for our pick since the end of last season (I was on the Rolle bandwagon). We simply need one more 2nd round pick if we want one of the top Safeties. I’ve also advocated taking Jenkins (as a FS), assuming we wouldn’t be sacrificing help on the front seven.

by Colinski on Apr 9, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree with not going all out

I would say we are good up to about the fifth or sixth waiting for someone to fall in our laps, with a couple of emergency options afterwards, in case we do a good job of addressing other needs and should go safety in the 6th 7th.

Amnesty, the idea that you can forgive transgressions against you, gives as much to one side, as it does the other. It has the noble quality of bestowing mercy to both parties.

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 9, 2009 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

in a nutshell

My guess is that we’ll start to look for a Safety around the 3rd-4th-ish range. And that’s because our needs in the front seven (and perhaps QB, RB, OL, etc., too) trump our needs at Safety for the first few rounds. We’ve added picks but we’ve added a need, too, even though I don’t think they’ll go out of their way to pick a QB if he isn’t right for the system — but they still could pick one somewhat early.

We need starter quality players for the front seven+, so we have take them at the point where you find them. A Safety pick in the 2nd would be a “breakthough,” a too hard to resist value. And I don’t see any of those. The candidates would be Delmas, S Smith, R Johnson, Chung.

The one place where we can find a Safety of starter quality is in the 2nd, but we never seem to have the luxury of taking one there; as I’ve seen in many MOCKs/simulations. It’s not that bad since we get some chances later on, but there doesn’t seem to be enough high picks to get starter quality NTs + DEs + LBs + ? (OL/QB, etc.) along with a Safety. Our chances have gotten somewhat better now that we have more picks but the infrequency of some of the other positions gives them a trumping position that results in very few scenarios in which we take a Safety early (i.e., 1st or 2nd).

In essence, I’m saying that our needs work out to be elsewhere in practice. This aspect is what’s called “value revealing,” and it may only be my values that are being revealed here. I usually find that I see another area as being more important in the early rounds, often because passing on the prospect means I won’t get an acceptable chance later, and Safety gets passed in the 2nd and the opportunity to fill it again doesn’t come till the 4th. And that’s also why I’m thrilled when a good prospect drifts down to the 3rd.

My feeling is that one of the FS/CB hyrbrids stands a good chance with us. We always have the option of using him at either position and coverage deficits are not an issue. That’s part of why I like McBath in the 4th, he’s an ex-CB with decent size and hitting ability. We can find SSs in the later going but it’s really all about finding a FS early on.

by Colinski on Apr 9, 2009 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we want a safety for Dawkins to tutor...

Can we wait until next year and find a way to grab Mays?

My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.

by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 9, 2009 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forget Ronnie Lott (well not really)...

but I see Atwater v 2.0 in Mr. Mays!

My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.

by Blackshirt4Broncos on Apr 9, 2009 5:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where's the Beef?

I really like Johnson as well, but I think wee need to address the front 7 with quality and size in rounds 1 and 2.
See my complete first round mock here

by topnation on Apr 9, 2009 7:40 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Value

If you have the opportunity to add Ron Brace or Louis Delmas/Rashad Johnson, you go with the latter. Brace to me is a bust in the league, as he never put up any great numbers despite more attention going to B.J. Raji. If you go big, the dude better be athletic, a la Shaun Rogers. Obviously, the pick doesn’t have to be someone as good as Rogers when we go after a nose, but he should be athletic. That’s why I like Sammie Lee Hill and Vaughn Martin.

by Sayre111589 on Apr 9, 2009 8:18 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point taken

Good thought on Hill later on.

by topnation on Apr 9, 2009 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

round + position

I like the idea of picking some late round projects but I don’t see this as an alternative to picking on a position/round criteria. To explain: the need for a player to contribute at a position of need is higher so teams need to select a player of starter/significant backup quality at an early point in the draft. Later picks are developmental/depth projects. I wouldn’t want to select a lot of players in this category, e.g., Sammie Lee Stillman or Vaughn Martin, because they’re not ready to play a significant amount of snaps at this point, but I do want add them after having picked another NT or DE34. And we’ll see if we can, and if that goal can be met (numbers are a problem, even with 10 picks).

Viewing “busts” as a black-and-white phenomenon is what’s wrong here. There are some who fit this category but they’re often a combination of very poor scouting/personnel practices and bad luck. Most busts fall into the category of ‘disappointments.’ Their lack of success is relative. They’re not necessarily bad at what they do but they’re overpaid for it. I’d say that Moss is a ‘disappointment’ but not a bust. We haven’t put him in a position to succeed as of yet, and he’ll need more development. Crowder could be a disappointment but we haven’t seen enough to know. Brace’s downside would be he’s a big slow guy and can’t do much more than effect the running game. That’s hardly terrible but it may be too little to justify paying him a 2nd rounder’s salary, especially since a Vaughn or Stillman could do the same thing for less after having been given the benefit of a few years of training.

by Colinski on Apr 9, 2009 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mocking Things

colinski, I enjoyed our give-and-take on things Cutler and McDaniels (“player” and “coach”) the other day. My guess is that if we sat down and had a beer we would reach a consensus, cultural relativism or not. I am also sure that we would have an engaging discussion about collective responsibility for the Holocaust as well; we both appear to have philosophical minds and some training in the area.

I greatly prefer discussing the draft to hashing out the former player-coach battle yet again., but I would also enjoy some indication from you as to what you think are reasonable expectations for our new coach over the next 3 years. My view is that if he doesn’t have a winning record in 2009, playoffs in 2010 and the AFC title game in 2011, that the coaching move was a mistake, but I would enjoy your take on it.

As for your mock draft comments, I think Denver may be a bit optimistic in thinking some of these players will drop to them. I look forward to fellow “Baltimoron” Mel Kiper’s full mock and as soon as I get it in the mail, I will post Denver’s picks on this site.

A good part about living in Baltimore is that I will be able to see both the Bears and the Broncos on hostile grass this Fall and should be able to make a decent comparison of the two teams in as close to laboratory conditions as you are going to get in football.

On with the draft and down with more trade controversy discussions. It will all play out over the next 3 years.

by Baltimore Bronco on Apr 9, 2009 4:42 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

various issues

I stayed away from the McJaygate issue while it was unfolding but began to post once Styg50 posted his article on Cook. Although I remained mostly silent during that period — I was studying the issue. I admit to some impatience when it comes to explaining the thinking that goes into an agnatological investigation (i.e., the study of Public Relation campaigns, usually), so I apologize if I came off rather bluntly.

Re: the Broncos’ prospects. Attitudes around this time of the year (pre-draft) tend to be overly rosy, and there’s a concomitant tendency to inflate the likelihood that incoming draftees will make immediate, and significant, contributions. I use a team building template to view success. I’m less concerned with the outward signs of success, such as wins and playoff results, etc., than with inwards signs that a successful rebuilding is occurring. One diagnostic sign is the use of a multi-year planning. Teams that take a long-term view are better prepared for eventualities such as injuries, retirements, etc., and show this by how they go about their business.

McDaniels and Xanders show signs of having taken the planning aspects of team building up a notch. For whatever reason, team building became a lost art form earlier in this decade and the results eventually showed on the field. And this is because of the ‘lag effect.’ What teams do right or wrong (often) doesn’t appear till years later. By the same token, what we do right (or wrong) in this draft probably won’t be apparent for some time. The primary question for me would be — are we building towards something?

I would expect that this draft (if successful) will produce around the league average for draftee impact. A few players will contribute immediately (high picks) while most will have less impact. Next year’s draft will make a further contribution to building the nucleus of the team, so it will take until the end of the 2010 season before we’re able to get a preliminary measure of our success at team building, and we’d expect that most of the dividends would come in the following years. Expectations of instant success are unrealistic. Moreover, I’d regard advances far into the playoffs as fortuitous rather than an indication that we’d been successful in executing the team building project. This doesn’t mean that we can’t expect some wins, but rather, that we should be attending more to subtle indications that we’re on an upward slope. The use of arbitrary measures of success, such as appearances in conference title games, are part of the problem that led to our neglect of team building. Once you give in to the pressure to win tomorrow despite the cost to our future success you’ve accepted an idea that’s antithetical to the team building concept. Organizations such as Pittsburgh or New England have been able to retool without experiencing long down cycles because they were unwilling to sacrifice their core principles.

by Colinski on Apr 9, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

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