as a relocated bronco fan now living in NC I’ve seen this dude dominate the ACC for the last 2 years. Like Champ most teams just stopped throwing at him (which makes his 7 picks last year even more remarkable. Imagine how good he can become with CB fo a mentor.

Obviously, having a better 40 time or more height is better; both would be awesome. And to be honest, Smith’s combine numbers didn’t exactly pop off the screen.

But the scout consensus is that Smith is GOOD CB. He has great instincts, makes good (if aggressive) decisions, and has plenty of quickness to get the job done. One report I found has his worst case as Nathan Vasher of Chicago, and best case as Ronde Barber.

I can’t find the link, but there’s another interesting stat on Smith. The man may be 5’ 9", but he has the arm span you’d expect from someone 6’ 2", with large hands to match. Obviously, the former is an asset in getting his hands on the ball, and the latter is an asset in holding on to ball. Understandable to see why he snagged so many INTs: good instincts, good quickness, and better reach and hands than one would expect.

All in all, it’s a classic case of, “what’s better: raw measurables or performance on the field?” Obviously, both would be ideal! But if you have to sacrifice a bit in one category, I’d sacrifice the raw measurables to get a better football player. Still seems funny to me when scouts say “if he were two inches taller, he’d be a top 10 pick.”

If Alphonso Smith can play like a top 10 pick, then trading next year’s 1st won’t seem like a bad idea. I guess time will tell; I’ll be pulling for him regardless.

Cheers gnarly! rec’d!

Right on target, Gnarly. All measureables have little to do with execution at this most instictive of positions. Only good scouting & superior player evaluations can extract a nugget like Al from the ore of rookie CBs with more size, speed, & overall athleticism . Smith has never backed down, has produced,& found paydirt. I am looking for at least 3 scores from the 09 Bronco defense to fuel our 13-3 comeback, & the “Fonze” wil provide at least one of those TO’s. I beliveve this rookie will start. Clayton can declare his 2 to 1 “experiment” a success, because in years to come I truly feel that he will validate his value to this francise as a legit #1.

Nicely compiled, GBD. While this pick was controversial to some, I tend to view it as i do anything that is outside the norm — it’s signature.

McDaniels and Xanders showed us something new with this draft, at least something new to Broncos fans. How it all works out is anyone’s guess but as TB and HT and Bear so cleanly articulated there is definitely a profile at work here — good character and good value. Not a bad place to start a new draft philosophy and build a team.

Toto, I don’t think we’re in Shan-sas anymore…

Alot of gooe information. Thanks for the research. Perhaps now we can get past this lable of “short and slow.”

If his arms are an inch or two longer than normal, it makes up for the height differential all by itself. If he were 5-11, or 6-0 with his production, he would have gone in the top 15. He may live up to that billing yet.

I can’t wait to see this team hit the field.

1. Lito doesn’t even start for the eagles and they have been trying to get rid of him, 18 int in 8 years, 2 a year, wow, that’s certainly worthy of a 1st round pick.

2. Dunta is good, but really not that good, 13 int in five years, again about 2.5 a year, not what I call that impressive, did Houstan place a franchise tag on him, sure, but that’s because they don’t have anyone else.

3. You nailed your analysis on Finnegan, one good year foes not translate to 1st round pick, obviously he wasn’t one, so kind of discounts your arguement.

4. Flowers impressed why, he had two picks, wow, nobody on KC defense impressed last year except their LB Derrick Johnson. Flowers started because they have no one else.

5. Again, a 4th rounder that was groomed to be a top tier CB, Pats show how to get value deeper in the draft.

6. MeAnglo shows why you don’t want a slow corner that can’t play man, having Eddie Royal torch him again and again showed his limitations.

7. Winfield is a decent CB, but really a number 2 guy, 20 int in ten years, again that averages to two a year, not the difference maker you want at CB.

8. Barber is probably the best on this list, still I think Barber is faster and taller than A. Smith.

Again college production does not equate to pro production, if that was the cas, Chase Daniels would of been a 1st rounder. The NFL game he won’t be going up against scrub QBs at Duke and FSU (threw 5 picks), he won’t be going against simple offensive systems. They will exploit him and match him up against bigger and faster WR, QBs in the NFL can make throws most college QBs can’t. I shudder at the Colts figuring out a way to match him up against Reggie Wayne, or Vincent Jackson eating him alive. Hell I worry about Lelie running deep posts on him all day. He may turn out to be a good number 2 CB, but again I don’t think you trade a possible top 15 pick for what will amount to a number two CB. The Senior bowl again isn’t a great judge of talent, since WR have not worked very much with the CB and everything is pretty simple since they only have a week to learn plays. Unless he turns out to be a guy like Champ Bailey or Nnambi, I think it is wasted pick, unless he is a sure fire number 1 guy, then it was a waste.

8.

Broncoman, danger, danger, you are in serious jeopardy of losing sight of the tree due to the dense shrubberies. Trust me, Bro, the “Fonze” will make tou forget all of your peripheral argumentative subterfuge when he takes 2 to the house in 09. Peace, out.

In number 3, is a cornerback…

3. CB Lamarcus Joyner, 5-9, 165, St. Thomas Aquinas (FL)

- If he were just two or three inches taller, he would be the top player in the country

I’m one of the people who seriously questioned this move. When I’d heard they traded up I was convinced it was for Ron Brace and was a little shocked to discover it was a CB. While I still would have preferred Brace, I think Smith may turn out to be an excellent long-term pick. Only time will tell.

Rec’d.

Thanks for the post. Very helpful context.

With regard to the “speed concerns”, I think it’s worth noting that the whole crew (and class?) seemed a bit slow. It had me wondering at the time about the conditions and the accuracy of the timing. Relative to his class of CBs, he was 5 one-hundredths slower in the 40 than the top 3 CBs in the draft, 2 hundredths slower that Vontae Davis, and 3 hundredths faster than Jenkins. Not bad, really, when combined with his historical production.

It was something I wanted to look up but have been too lazy/busy. This is great, good job!

40 yard dash times are lame. Jerry Rice reportedly ran a 4.71…that’s slow for a LB, but I didn’t see anybody catch him from behind. TD ran a pretty slow 40 too but he could bust out a long run. The 40 yard dash just does not simulate the same running you do in an NFL game (starting position, pads) and should not be used to label a guy as slow if he clearly plays fast on the field.

Terrific research, I hope this can help call off the dogs…

Thank you!!

Alphonso Smith may be a good player in the NFL, but I wouldn’t put all my eggs in one basket (ala McD). Yes, he may turn out to be a decent CB in the NFL, but the chances are stacked against him. McD is gambling with the Broncos’s money, and went all in on one number on a roullette wheel. Chances are against him.

Arguably the two best CB in the NFL is Champ (6’0" and very fast) and Nnamdi (6’2" and very fast). Compared that to our gamble, in Smith (5’"9 and slow). Not a good gamble. Additionally, think of the receivers he has to go up against on a jump ball. Most of those receivers are 6’3" to 6’5". Not a good gamble.

Wasted #1 draft pick for 2010. Most experts pick the Broncos to draft at #6 (ESPN) or #7 (Fox Sport) in a draft where the class of 2010 may be one of the strongest in many decades. Keep the #6 pick and trade down (similar to Patriots). When trading down you also pick up a 2nd or 3rd rounder. The Patriots did this in 2009 not once, not twice, but three times and picked up what 3 more draft picks. Come on think about having three extra 2nd round draft picks in a draft class that may be the best in decades.

I would of rather McD traded there 2nd round pick and a 4th round pick, in 2009, to move up and draft Alphonso Smith.

its too bad so many neophytes who wouldn’t know good CB play if it bit them in the a55 have to try and tear your post down because they don’t like the pick.

Let’s get a few myths out of the way – the jump ball. If jump balls were such an important part of play in the NFL then why don’t teams recruit 7-foot receivers?

Size – even in the NBA jump balls don’t go to the tallest player; they go to the player with the best position.

Value of the trade – while some IDIOTS in the MSM criticize it, every knowledgeable football person confirms that next year’s #1 was worth a high #2 this year. Some fans may criticize it but that’s just a reflection of their ignorance, not any facts.

The gamble – some posters like to frame the Smith pick as a gamble. All drafts picks are a gamble; there are no sure things. Smith this year is no more of a gamble than any player we might take next year.

The fact is Smith was a damned good CB at Wake. We took him at a reasonable position in the draft. There is absolutely no reason to think that Smith has any less chance of working out than any other player we could have taken.

As a coach, here’s all I need to know about the kid….

He is in the top ten in the history of the NCAA in INTs for any player. Think about that. (Source TSN). No really; think about that stat. Then think about how long Bailey and Goodman have left.

1) I could give a rip about his size. It clearly hasn’t stopped him.

2) The argument that the passes he’s intercepted were poorly thrown (from a few few highlights) is a laughable one. You don’t break the top ten of “all colleges / all time” with nothing but bad throws. C’mon.

3) I agree that INTs aren’t the full measure of a CB. I coached my DBs to bat down unless the pick was 100%. I wasn’t high on INTs because I wanted “the sure thing”, not a botched INT tipped to an offensive player. Still, if I’m looking at a kid that’s able to position himself for the INT and get that many picks… darned right I take him.

Based on all of that, trading a future first rounder to get a current first round kid at a second round price is a wise move. Given the kid’s amazing record, I just have a hard time understanding the criticism. He’s a proven commodity.

Coming from a bearish sort of a viewpoint, I’d like to thank you for a great post: very well conceived and written, and for the excellent lines of discussion that it has fostered. I tend to bow to SWG and HT for the odd reason that they actually know and coach football. While it might invalidate their writings from the MSM (In which knowledge, too often, is just assumed or even discarded), it’s a pretty good reason to consider them as key sources around here.

However: I’m not suggesting that no one else should have a differing opinion. like most of us I welcome dissent, and thank those who provide it. The sword of insight is best sharpened through the abrasions of discourse It’s often not easy to go against the tides of opinion and I admire the willingness. I just also note that when those who know more than I uniformly agree, I’m glad to have the opportunity to listen. Thanks to all of you – this was a perfect MHR experience.

everything that can be said is said.

I will add this however, it seems that every scouting report I’ve read about Alphonso stresses… ‘Fluid Motion’ , ‘Able to stay with receivers’ , ‘Reacts quickly’ , ‘Recognizes Play early’…

Sounds like we may have something special.

Thanks

Out of curiosity, I took a look back at the last ten years in the draft.

Here’s the top CB pick and height:

Year – when picked – name – height

2008 – #11 – Leodis McKelvin (5’10)
2007 – #14 – Darrelle Revis (5’11)
2006 – #15 – Tye Hill (5’10)
2005 – #6 – Adam “Pacman” Jones (5’10)
2004 – #8 – DeAngelo Hall (5’10)
2003 – #5 – Terrance Newman (5’11)
2002 – #17 – Phillip Buchanon (5’11)
2001 – #21 – Nate Clements (6’0)
2000 – #15 – Deltha O’Neal (5’11)
1999 – #7 – Champ Bailey (6’0)

The height for the last ten years: 4 – 5’10, 4 – 5’11, 2 – 6’0

My personal preference is for tall CBs but I’m even more partial to ‘good’ CBs. This year’s crop tended to bifurcate into ‘tall not so good’ CBs and ‘not so tall good’ CBs. Perhaps one of the ‘X and O’s guys can offer us some analysis on how much height plays into coverage ability (I think it’s somewhat overemphasized in importance, like many of the measurables).

The preference for tall (and fast) CBs is undeniable, but I think the tale of the tape tells a different story. And this suggests to me that ‘you don’t always get what you want’ (the Rolling Stones principle). Heights are frequently inflated going into the Combine so we’re mislead by listed sizes. I also think there’s a divergence between ‘small, good’ and ‘tall, not so good’ that occurs regularly, and not just this year. Essentially, we’ve been told so many times that tall makes for better CBs that we believe it even though it’s a normative statement (an aspiration) rather than an empirical description of CBs.

I tend to believe the story on film and in production statistics. Projecting players based on physical metrics can be problematic. Deltha O’Neal was projected based on metrics. I’d rather have a CB with demonstrated ability than projecting them based on workout warrior metrics, but I won’t say that size isn’t a concern. However, I was very high on Darrent Williams, who was only 5’8, so anything close to his performance level (and I believe Smith will be better) will make me very happy.

when he played Cornerback for the JV. He was frequently targeted early in the games, but he NEVER had a pass completed against him. his last season In spite of being only 5’1" he was fast, quick and he knew how to establish position.

I am excited about Alphonso’s movement skills and agility, he fits my vision of what and how a CB should be able to move and play. I am still surprised that a 3rd or 4th wasn’t part of the trade. Our front office came across as being desparate and dateless. That condition leads to too much bow-wow-wow instead va-va-voom.

he also played CB… it just goes to show that height isnt a big factor when talking about athletic ability
i personally didnt like the pick when at first, but now after reading great posts like these i feel very optimistic about this kid
cant wait to see how this draft plays out

I think the people that hate the trade will be pleasantly surprised by this guy.