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Shallow Thoughts & Nearsighted Observations

Denver Broncos rookie running back Knowshon Moreno, right, the team's first pick in the NFL draft, talks with running backs coach Bobby Turner during the team's football minicamp at Broncos' headquarters in the southeast Denver suburb of Englewood, Colo., on Sunday, May 3, 2009. (AP Photo/David Zalubowski)

More photos » by David Zalubowski - AP

6 months ago: Denver Broncos rookie running back Knowshon Moreno, right, the team's first pick in the NFL draft, talks with running backs coach Bobby Turner during the team's football minicamp at Broncos' headquarters in the southeast Denver suburb of Englewood, Colo., on Sunday, May 3, 2009. (AP Photo/David Zalubowski)

Monday, MONDAY, MONNNNNNNNNNNNDAY!!!!!!  Good morning, and welcome to another edition of Shallow Thoughts & Nearsighted Observations.  For this week's official ST&NO picture, I chose Knowshon Moreno being coached by Bobby Turner.  It kind of gave me a warm fuzzy feeling, knowing Bobby is still with us, and that he's devoting his considerable coaching talents to developing a future star.  It's the time of the year where football news is slow.  If I were a newsman, I might have to resort to making up some trade rumors.  Since I am an avowed opinion-writer, though, here comes a portion of that instead for you to chew on.  Bon appetit!

1.  I work for a publicly-traded Fortune 500 company in its corporate finance group.  I help manage the finances of a standalone $110-million business unit within the larger $6-billion company, but I do participate some in the consolidation of financial results across the entire company, so I have gained some insight as to how it all works. 

I don't think I should probably name my company explicitly here, but I will say it is one of the few whose stock has performed fairly well amid the financial crisis of the last 6 months, because that's the point of this lead-up.

The main reason for the strong and steady performance has been expectation management.  Our senior management tells Wall Street that we'll make certain numbers, and we make them every quarter.  I am involved in the forecasting at the business unit level, and I can tell you that it's a very serious undertaking.  Nobody gets surprised, and the stock performs well.  The main reason individual stocks tank is underperformance of expectations.  Conversely, overperformance of expectations causes stock prices to skyrocket.  It's a smart strategy to stay away from hyped stocks that underperform, and a smart strategy to look for ones which are under the radar, and ready to overperform.

I look at the Denver Broncos for 2009, and I see a lot of reason to think that the team will overperform the low expectations which the punditocracy (negative, as always) seems to be setting for them.  I saw somebody at Football Outsiders say the Broncos were a couple of bad breaks away from watching Seattle exercise the first pick in the 2010 Draft on their behalf.  It was so idiotic that I am not even going to link it.  After the jump, we'll look at this seriously.

Star-divide

Welcome to the other side.  I am going to hypothesize a hypothesis here.  It seems to me that a smart football coach will always seek to make best use of his assets toward the accomplishment of the mission of winning football games.  Wow, that's pretty obvious, right?  Well, the football media always seems to assume that coaches are inextricably tied to systems, regardless of the personnel they have to use.

Coaches who don't adjust to their personnel are doomed to lose a lot of games and get fired.  Mike Shanahan always adjusted, Bill Belichick is well-known for adjusting (remember the 2-5 stuff he was doing on defense when he had a bunch of D-Linemen hurt?), and even Tony Dungy went away from a pure Tampa-2 over the last few years some.  Smart coaches adjust as needed.

For example, we're all under the impression that the Broncos will run a 3-4 defense this season, as Mike Nolan is known to favor it, and Josh McDaniels has openly said they want to transition to it.  I think it's a mistake, though, to think that it will be a pure 3-4, because the total complement of necessary personnel may not be in place yet.  It would only make sense to deploy your resources in the most productive way possible, regardless of what you would prefer to do.

You're wondering, what could I be getting at?  Well, I will tell you.  The Broncos have significantly more talent on their roster, top to bottom, than they did last season, and particularly, at the end of last season.  I don't think you'd get a lot of argument against that statement from anybody.  So, if the talent is better, isn't it a natural assumption to make that a smart coaching staff would be able to deploy that talent in such a way as to improve upon last season's 8-8 record?  It follows that all of the hand-wringing about "fitting the system" is just noise.

Think about it.  The defensive talent is better overall, and it's vastly better in the secondary.  The inability to cover the passing game was the primary reason for the defensive problems last season, although many seem to believe otherwise.  The second-biggest problem was giving up big plays in the running game, which Brian Dawkins helps against, because he's such a good player against the run, without even starting from the box.  Better gap discipline from a new scheme would help too.  If you strip out the big plays, the Broncos run defense wasn't really that bad last season.  I think it is reasonable to think that the Broncos defense can be league-average this season.

The offense is absolutely loaded with talent.  At 10 of the 11 positions, there is a definite above-average player.  Ryan Clady, Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Casey Wiegmann, Ryan Harris, and the Daniel Graham/Tony Scheffler tandem are at or near the top of the NFL at their respective positions.  Knowshon Moreno can be outstanding also, and I love the idea of a Moreno/Hillis tandem at RB.  (Important:  If that happens, I am calling on the MHR to reject the predictable Thunder and Lightning regurgitation.  Let's not allow it to go there). If the winner of the QB derby plays well, which I find pretty likely, this is a top-notch offense, one of the very best in the NFL. 

The increased talent also has implications for the special teams.  Better team athleticism leads to better kick coverage units.  This was again a weakness in 2008, and by drafting a guy like David Bruton expressly to help the special teams, and adding guys like Darcel McBath and Alphonso Smith to the coverage units, you have to think that improvement will be seen in this area.

This team will be better this season than it was last season, whether or not it shows up in the record.  Low expectations are a blessing, because they will allow the team to operate under the radar for awhile.  Look at Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore last season, who walked  the same path that the Broncos will walk this season.  And remember - for the Broncos, the task is to go from second (or really, tied for first) to first, not worst-to-first.

2.  I don't think that Brett Favre is coming back this season, but I don't really care.  It doesn't affect much of anything in my opinion.  People say the Vikings are a QB away from championship contention, but Favre isn't that QB anymore.  They'd almost be better off looking at Michael Vick when he gets released from home confinement in July.  That's a different kind of circus, but it's worth a look, at least.

3.  Since I am sure the Vick reference will stir something up, I believe that a convicted criminal who serves his sentence to the satisfaction of the law should be allowed to rejoin society, and earn a living without impediment.    People will say, what about child molesters, well, this is clearly not nearly the same thing. 

Any protestation of Vick getting another job will, in my opinion, harm society as much as Vick's dog-fighting crimes did.  I hope that the guy learned his lesson, and doesn't repeat his mistakes, but if he does, he can go back to prison.  It's not fair for people to assume that he will screw up again, though.

4.  While writing this, I've been watching Game 4 of the Rockets-Lakers series.  Nobody in the MSM  thought the Rockets would win this game after losing Yao Ming for the season, and they dominated.  This is another example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.  A team that has winning habits and executes can overcome injuries and personnel shortcomings.

5.  I am a New York Mets fan, and I know there are several others here as well.  I think the best broadcasting team in sports is Gary Cohen, Ron Darling, and Keith Hernandez for SNY.  Cohen is a very knowledgeable play-by-play man.  Darling, who went to Yale, brings a thinking-man's approach to game analysis, particularly pitching.  Hernandez, the greatest defensive first baseman ever, and a very good hitter, has an equally cerebral approach to analyzing hitting and defense.  Darling and Hernandez both take some games off, so sometimes it's all 3, and sometimes it's just Cohen and one of the other two.  It works great, regardless of the configuration.

The best thing about the three of them is that they have no problem criticizing the Mets when it's warranted.  The analysis is fairly detached, and they don't use the words "we" or "us" unless they are talking about a Mets team in the 1980's that they played on.  While watching a recent game, it occurred to me that MHR is similar to the Cohen/Darling/Hernandez troika.  We're homers to a reasonable point, and it's clearly understood that we want to see the Broncos be successful.  In the final analysis, though, we'll criticize the team where it's reasonably warranted.

6.  I am very interested by the launch of the ESPNChicago.com site.  Not a lot has been made of it, but I consider it to be a major occurrence in the sports media landscape.  If you read this guy's February column on Chicagotribune.com, he seems to get it dead wrong, in my opinion.

ESPN believes Chicago has big enough shoulders for another local sports outlet, as it will launch its first Web site devoted to local sports fans.

No, that's not what ESPN thinks, actually.  ESPN thinks that they can do better than the existing local sites, and take enough of their market share to push them out of business.  They undoubtedly have the most resources to work with, and they have cost efficiencies relative to the locals, so they may be right.  Remember, newspapers everywhere are dying, so there has to be an expectation that a future void will need to be filled.

I am starting to envision a world where the major news sites (CNN, MSNBC, Fox News) begin adding sites for large local markets, and ESPN is hosting sites in every market which has professional or major college sports.  I would venture to guess that CBS and Fox would try to get in on the sports action, and CBS in on the news action as well, but both are pretty far behind the industry leaders today. 

This is a new form of media imperialism that's on the rise.  The print media is severely disadvantaged by their existing cost structure, and the owners of the broadcast media see the opportunity to dominate a new "written-word" media landscape.  (They'll mostly want to stay out of the printing business, beyond existing ventures like ESPN the Magazine.)

MHR will be directly competing against the likely-to-someday-exist ESPNDenver.com.  Our model is very different, in that we're a participatory community rather than a sermon on a mount, but in the marketplace of ideas, we'll be facing off more directly than ever with ESPN.  It should be interesting.

7.  Retired for John Elway.

8.  I have decided that I will no longer buy products or services from retailers who compare their pricing schemes to "stimulus packages" or "bailouts" in their advertising.  That's just too much stupid for me.

We'll see you next week for more Shallow Thoughts & Nearsighted Observations.  Maybe there will be some new Broncos news by then to talk about.  Have a great week.

16 recs  |  Comment 72 comments |

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Thanks TB!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????

by boydy2669 on May 11, 2009 6:55 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Secondary

Having played football in an aggressive, blitzing defense I have to take exception to the Broncs secondary being the primary factor in a weak defense. Give a high school quarterback enough time and a few passes will be completed even at the pro level.
Pressuring the quarterback is the KEY to pass defense in this writer’s opinion and that pressure should come primarily from the front 7. Ideally, I prefer seeing the interior pocket collapse with pressure on the wings keeping the QB contained. Add in a dose of blitzing linebackers and we disrupt the entire rhythm of an offense.

Having said that it appears we now have the talent in the secondary to dramatically alter the turnover ratio via interceptions. With any kind of pressure from the front 7, and I believe this pressure will be far better than most predict, our secondary will be EXCEPTIONALLY hard to pass against. Personally, I think the Broncos will shock many pundits by fielding a high scoring, highly diversified offense and a defense that will be highly entertaining by way of forced turn overs.

Go Broncs!

by BroncoCUbuffs on May 11, 2009 6:56 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. Put Bailey and Asomugha at corner and stick some pro bowlers at safety – then put a Jarvis Moss at each DE. If the QB can stand back there and wait until someone gets open, a WR will eventually get open. Even Champ will tell you that he simply cannot cover someone all day. Any GM in the league, given his choice of either the top cornerback or top pass rusher, will choose the top pass rusher. They are too hard to find. I’m no Dre Bly apologist, but he has had an imposible job the last couple of years.

I agree with the OP that improved safety play in run support will make a huge difference. Long runs are also more demoralizing to a defense than a completed pass of the same distance. I’m excited to see improved play back there.

by Broncos_FTW on May 11, 2009 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd, Buzzed, and Enjoyed!

I particularly liked/agreed with these 2 parts:

I look at the Denver Broncos for 2009, and I see a lot of reason to think that the team will overperform the low expectations which the punditocracy (negative, as always) seems to be setting for them.

(Important: If that happens, I am calling on the MHR to reject the predictable Thunder and Lightning regurgitation. Let’s not allow it to go there.)

by studbucket on May 11, 2009 7:13 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks once again

Always looking forward to ST&NO, great write ups!

I agree with pretty much everything. Josh will find away to adjust the scheme to the personel available. Im excited for the season!

Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands

by BroncosNL on May 11, 2009 7:17 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I just love number 8!

I think I’ll join you on that one LOL…

Thanks for the Monday read!

A proud prognostication of 10-6 in 2009!!!

by Broncotodd on May 11, 2009 8:10 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post!

Though I am not too fond of media imperialism.

Check this out:

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 8:18 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Scary, indeed. Look at what is going on with GE right now. The garbage they allow/push on MSNBC, NBC is one thing, but when you look at it in light of all they have to gain by certain policy advancements and it begins to look criminal. Not to get off in some wild political direction, but it should concern people of every political bent.

This is what we wanted...
Hey, look what we got!

by pubkeeper on May 11, 2009 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was, ah, speaking strictly about MHR's competition.

It’s not about competing with a bunch of players in the game…its about competing with 5 GLOBAL players. It makes it all but impossible to get a diverse view out there for the public…even in sports reporting. It’s quite Orwellian actually.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The big difference being

in 1984 it was the State, and here it is corporate capitalism. Although considering how the State and the Corporation are happy bedfellows, I’m not sure how fine a point it is.

"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels

by Colorado_Kitten on May 11, 2009 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I see no difference.

;-)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Check out the concept of state capitalism from crazy lefties like the Frankfurt School.

They ain’t right about everything but they were pretty insightful when they read the tea leaves on combination of state, economy, and culture as a nexus of soft control for the masses.

And now I’m dropping this stuff. :)

by jaffe28 on May 11, 2009 1:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please do. Guru will delete this whole section if it isn't dropped.

I referred to it mainly to point out our main competition. lol We are of similar thought, email me if you want to discuss further. ;-)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Closer to Huxley than Orwell,

cause the masses seem to like it, but the point is the same. Scary stuff and the narrowing of diversity. It’s interesting that we focus so much on the concept of diversity in the US, but we either don’t notice, don’t care, or feel helpless in front of the homogenizing of our minds.

by jaffe28 on May 11, 2009 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

MHR is the diversity baby!!

Reap it MSM!

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

For Decades

As left-of-center independent voter, I’ve been hearing this GE/MSNBC thing a lot recently. Pretty ironic when GE’s been doing this for decades, and whenever I pointed out how much money GE makes from wars and advocating cutting corporate taxes, I was told I was a conspiracy theorist (GE was at one time a marketing client of mine). But when MSNBC hires two high-profile progressives (which are more than counter-balanced by the daily 3 hours of Mornin’ Joe), all of a sudden everyone agrees GE has too much influence.

Funny.

But either way, I’d argue the most interesting development is what Rupert Murdoch plans for the Wall Street Journal by installing a system of micropayments. I’d say that’s a pretty clear harbinger of the model to come — what’s unclear is if will people pay for entertainment like they’d pay for highly actionable financial news.

OK, sorry, back to football…

by jvill on May 11, 2009 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I despise every name mentioned in this comment...except for yours. ;-)

I am an equal opportunity nonpartisan.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahhh..."the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations"

Jefferson was not a fan, either.

"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels

by Colorado_Kitten on May 11, 2009 9:10 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ted

Thanks for the Insight. I like this assumption

So, if the talent is better, isn’t it a natural assumption to make that a smart coaching staff would be able to deploy that talent in such a way as to improve upon last season’s 8-8 record? It follows that all of the hand-wringing about “fitting the system” is just noise.

  This looks like something I’ve seen NBA coaches deploy. Like using a “small lineup” on the premise that a quicker team can outhustle their opponent to claim loose balls and succeed in the transition game. If Nolan deploys a 2-5 or has 6 DBs on the field for a larger amount of plays than normal, It would stand to reason that you have an excellent point.

My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season

by KaptainKirk on May 11, 2009 9:13 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Regarding your referenced quote,

I know there has been debate about the strength of our 2009 schedule, but that should enter into the discussion. We can not accurately judge this team versus last year’s team, nor could we judge last year’s team accurately against this year’s schedule. Our team has changed, and so has every other team in the league. There are too many variables to determine causality, or even correlation. We will just have to wait and see. Just because our talent is better and more well-coached doesn’t mean other teams haven’t made similar improvements.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on May 11, 2009 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is FO's unlinked comment really that outrageous?

While I agree that many are likely underestimating the Broncos this year (especially compared to the Raiders, SF, & StL), is FO’s comment about the team being a few bad breaks away from the #1 pick really that far off to deserve such scorn?

Another injury to Champ (which seem to be more frequent these days), an injury to Doom (our only real passrush threat), and an injury to Clady (the dominant force on the O-line that will make our QB’s look decent), combined with a significant suspension for B-Marsh (our only real proven playmaker that forces opposing D’s to adjust) would make our team’s prospects VERY dim.

While I like a lot of the new FA’s and draftpicks brought in, we have what appears to be a tough schedule ahead, and until we see these guys can do on the field, we don’t really know what he have.

Put another way: Cutler was the key to our offense last year and he’s gone. Our D was historically bad. Shanny was always good for a “scheme” win or 2 a year… I have high hopes for McD, but we have no idea whether he is the next Shanny, or the next Brian Billick…. I think its COMPLETELY understandable why some folks would have big questions about this team…

Basically, everything this team has done this year is high-risk/(maybe) high reward… from firing the old elite coach, to trading the probowl QB, to betting on a bunch of old FA defensive players in the secondary (and young guys on the D-line), to trading up for some specific potentially bust-risk players in the draft (small and slow “playmakers” at CB, and a TE who caught less than 20 passes).

I actually like a number of the moves we’ve made and, if they work, think we could be poised to move up over the enxt few years… but I’m not such a homer that I can’t at least acknoweledge the risk that this team could completely implode this year.

by cjfarls on May 11, 2009 9:44 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it is

It would take a LOT of bad breaks to be the worst team in the NFL. There is too much talent on this team, particularly on offense for that to be likely at all. Thanks for your take, but I think complete implosion is really unlikely.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on May 11, 2009 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

What proven talent?

We have a lot of value guys… but very few IMPACT guys that can dictate scheme on the opposing team.

We have a great Oline, that a key injury or 2 could derail (continuity is a big key to oline effectiveness);

We have a stud CB, who has been hurt and maybe slowed up by age;

We have a stud WR, who can’t stay out of the commish’s doghouse…

… and a whole lot of potential that may not pan out and/or old guys who may/may not be washed up.

Basically, until these guys prove it on the field (which I think they will), I think its completely reasonable for some folks to see the possibility of an implosion, especially considering the dramatic changes in the front office/coaching staff with unproven folks.

by cjfarls on May 11, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you have no good point

really no Impact Players, We have Marshall, Royal, Graham, Scheffler, Moreno(even though he has yet to play will have a major impact), Champ, DJ, Woodyard, DOOM, Dawkins, plus 5 studs on the Oline with pretty good back ups. we also have the best oline coach in the NFL in Dennison. The statement that we have very few impact players in completely False.

by gnarlybroncodude on May 11, 2009 4:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

From the other half of the glass...

You could also say that we are a few injuries away from finding a great talent. Hillis was buried on the depth chart before he got his chance, now everyone wants him to play, royal took on the primary receiver role when BMarsh was out, and totally destroyed the entire raiders defense, Wiegmann got to his first pro bowl after Nalen went down. There were glimpses of rookie coners and safties and linebackers showing great stuff when the defense got riddled with injuries.
I think when you look at the state of all the teams in the NFL I think its pretty hard to come up with a likely injury scenario that puts the broncs on the level of the lions, chiefs, seahawks, and raiders.

by gOOn on May 11, 2009 5:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

if you are claiming

that, at the very least Royal and Scheffler aren’t proven playmakers, I think you are just flat wrong.

by poorboywilly on May 11, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

they are very good players...

… but are they so good they force other teams to change their scheme to deal with them? Not yet anyway. Scheff is close, but can’t stay healthy enough to do it consistently. Royal is a great value guy, but isn’t “elite” yet.

by cjfarls on May 11, 2009 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are missing something very important

our play-callers didn’t force other teams to change their scheme to deal with them. And we got rid of the predictable and inadequate play-callers.

Cutler was the key to our offense last year and he’s gone

Then Cutler was the key to our historically epic collapse last season as well – throwing more interceptions than touchdowns and therefore being ‘the key’ to handing the postseason over to the Chargers. Change CAN be a good thing.

"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels

by Colorado_Kitten on May 11, 2009 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Absolutely!

Don’t dispute that at all. I’m just saying, reasonable could have a different interpretation.

Sometimes folks here get a little high-and-mightly whenever someone has the temerity to question how effective some moves are/were, when in reality we have no clue until they get n the field.

I’m not saying we won’t be a decent team this year… in fact, I think we will be. I just also think we’d be pretty short-sighted to not think about WHY, many folks are skeptical of the team.

by cjfarls on May 11, 2009 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The WHY is very easy.

We no longer have our perceived franchise QB, I say perceived because there is no way in hell one Pro Bowl makes you “franchise” anything. According to the MSM its the only thing that allows a team to win in the NFL, unless you have an historically great defense, which, we don’t have.

In addition, you’re entire argument that a team is only 4-5 injuries away from holding the #1 pick is true of 31 other teams in the NFL, not a unique situation for the Broncos. Yet, to combat this the depth on this team has been improved. When your stars go down, you expect role players to step up, ala Matt Cassel. I’d challenge you to find one position on this roster that hasn’t had the depth increased.

But if FO is going to say that the Broncos are a few bad breaks away from the #1 pick, then they need to maintain consistency and say that about every team. Cause that’s the reality of the NFL. Everyone’s a few bad breaks away from the #1 pick and a few lucky bounces from success. That’s why it deserves scorn; its true of every team yet they go out of their way to single our team out.

"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden

by Randall15 on May 11, 2009 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any given Sunday; any given Season

I was thinking the same thing. Technically, the Steelers are also a few bad breaks away from the number 1 overall next draft. But it is fashionable this year for the MSM to pick on the Broncos. It is understandable that some of us want to defend against those slings and arrows in a reasonable way.

"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels

by Colorado_Kitten on May 11, 2009 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aye, there's the rub.

Did you partake in Speak like Shakespeare day? ;)

by tunga77 on May 11, 2009 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

For in that sleep of the offseason, what dreams may come

No. I missed it! On a happily related note – you should enjoy this! A Shakesprearean insulter.

"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels

by Colorado_Kitten on May 11, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol, ahhsim

I particularly enjoyed:
Thou wert best set thy lower part where thy nose stands.

cuz I love potty humor…

by tunga77 on May 11, 2009 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes and no

You are right… every team is a few bad breaks or injuries from a total collapse. For example, see Seattle last year.

However, to say that Denver doesn’t have more question marks that the many/most other teams in the NFL coming into this year is blind homerism.

As I said, we did a lot of high-risk moves this year. Reasonable folks can interpret them both ways. I don’t think we’ll be last-place bad, but I can easily see WHY folks think that could be possible.

Basically, are we so thin skinned as Bronco fans that we get our hackles up so much when folks make reasonable conclusions that we happen to disagree with? Do we really have a persecution complex to think they are just picking on us because they don’t like Colorado… or might a reasonable interpretation of the moves lead them to their conclusion? This doesn’t mean we need to agree… but I wish we could quit with the whining and scorn.

If there are logical flaws in their argument, I’ll be the first to point them out. Many of the arguments here against FO’s conclusion seem to be:
“We’re better, because we have a bunch of goodlooking (unproven) rookies and savvy (old-washed up) veteran FAs… oh and our QB wasn’t as awesome as you say he is (and as we were saying he was 6 months ago).”

To me, that is just blind homerism at its worst… its what I’d expect on a Raider’s board, not MHR.

by cjfarls on May 11, 2009 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why I've been getting riled up

I’m open to question marks. I’m open to showing the potential negatives of some of the moves. What DOES bother me are the following:

Watching article after article say they love the players picked up in the draft…then give the draft as a whole a D, because it wasn’t what they expected. If the goal of the draft is to improve the talent on the team, then Denver did just that.

Watching Denver get hammered over the next-year’s-1st for a 2nd this year..while Carolina has done it two years in a row now. Last year it gave them Otah, and this year’s move has been met with accepting reviews. Regardless of the “it could be the #1 overall pick!” angle, it’s still hypocrisy (especially with Peppers still holding out, a defense that is getting older, and Delhomme’s 6 TO game to end the season last year).

Okay, I could handle a few articles like the ones above. Fine. But they KEEP COMING. I think a lot of fans around here are just sick of seeing the same thing repeated, with no new analysis (in fact, most of the time, it doesn’t look like much analysis was done in the first place).

And when the topic goes to “Denver needed to sign players along the front 7” angle, the routine answer is always “they didn’t do it, so they failed.” But 1) Denver DID sign players, just not ones that made people go OHH!!!, and 2) what OHHHH!!! players were available that wouldn’t break the bank (which, IMO, would have been a HORRIBLE idea)? Nobody mentions “well, Denver should have looked at this or this or this.”

So, yeah…I can deal with the uncertainty. I can deal people being apprehensive of Denver’s offseason. What I get sick of is the same ill-informed options (not from you cj, fyi) being thrown around everywhere without anyone thinking to dig a little deeper.

Just consider MHR the counter-point to an overwhelmingly negative MSM. :o)

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on May 11, 2009 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes we have question

but again, no more than the rest of the teams in the league.

Every team that changed coaches is in the same position we’re in.
Every team that changed QBs is in the same position we’re in.
etc, etc.

You could easily go through each and every team in the NFL and identify at least two serious questions regarding their team for the upcoming season

Oakland: OL, QB play, WRs, passing game, run defense
KC: QB, no proven pass catchers, running game, switching defensive schemes, secondary.
San Diego: Improved OL play, better run game production, Merriman

And that’s just the rest of the AFC West. Even NE has questions on Tom Brady’s ability to comeback and a defense that is creeping toward advanced age. We have questions, but not nearly as many as say, Detroit, St. Louis, KC, Oakland and Cincy. In fact, it’s easily argued that that even with a downgraded QB our offense and its talent is clearly better than all 5. Yet suddenly we’re so bad with an offense that won us 8 games last year we’ll be competing with them for the top pick? Come on. That’s an absolutely absurd assumption for the MSM to make. There are some really bad teams in the NFL with a lot less talent than the Broncos. The notion that losing a franchise QB means we’ll be competing for the #1 pick is outlandish and a knee-jerk reaction by the media.

"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden

by Randall15 on May 11, 2009 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Look at it this way

There are at least 6 games in the upcoming season where our talent meets or exceeds that of our opponents. That’s 6 winnable games. 6 that could have been won last year even.

Over the past 5 years the top pick in the draft has gone to teams with no more than 2 wins. In fact, in this century only once has the top pick gone to a team with more than 2 wins (2003 San Diego Chargers w/ 4 wins).

The likelihood that we only win 2 games is very, very slim despite all of our question and we can take solace in the fact that at least 5 teams have more (and often more serious) questions than the Broncos face in the upcoming season.

"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden

by Randall15 on May 11, 2009 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even Peter King

Someone who’s criticized many of the Broncos moves throughout the offseason has them as a top-20 team as of this moment:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/05/10/may11/2.html

"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden

by Randall15 on May 11, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: King

A top 20 slot but………..

The substance of his comments isn’t encouraging, nor do they lead me to believe that King has yet to get a clue.

It would be encouraging if King demonstrated he actually knew why the Broncos will be a top 20 team. He’s right; but for all the wrong reasons.

There’s something profoundly ironic about King’s self-fulfilling prediction of a short honeymoon.

Is it possible to have even less respect for certain members of the media? The bar can’t go much lower, assuming there’s any room at all.

by Colinski on May 11, 2009 3:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes but the point was more to show that someone

who doesn’t like any of the things we’ve done this offseason, still acknowledges that this isn’t a bottom 5 team in the NFL.

Thus, further proof that claiming Seattle will have the top pick next April is an outlandish prediction.

"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden

by Randall15 on May 11, 2009 5:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I agree

There’s a bit of mixed message here. Despite the media’s piling on they still don’t think Denver is a bad team, which seems to contradict the rest of the message.

I’ve written about these “echo chamber effects.” King merely recites oft repeated memes in an ‘everyone knows’ fashion but doesn’t demonstrate any insight whatsoever.

by Colinski on May 11, 2009 8:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats great...

But as soon as I saw he had Chicago 4th his power rankings lost all credibility!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????

by boydy2669 on May 11, 2009 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

cjaris...

I like where you are coming from and we as Broncos fans (even if we don’t admit it) get very agitated when someone submits the idea that the MSM has an actual and good reason for thinking that our Broncos have made too many mistakes.

A few thoughts in regards to WHY many writers are “picking on” Denver:

IMO, writers like to do the safe thing (like I wrote in an old post here on MHR) and just kind of run with the rest of the herd. Either that, or they really think Denver has made fatal mistakes, and that’s their prerogative, even if we don’t agree or like it . It’s one of the two. Because a writer (or analyst) thinks Denver is doomed doesn’t mean he’s a moron, it means that…wait for it…he likely thinks Denver made too many bad moves.

See, for years Denver was the model of consistency. In coaching, organization, drafting, game planning, actual play calling, and personality. Aside from the Titans, Colts, and Patriots, the Broncos have been by far the most consistent franchise in the NFL and maybe one of the most stable in sports.

This leads me to the more abtruse reason (and my humble opinion) for WHY the writers are beating up the Broncos. Sometimes writers feel like they have to stick with horse they picked and when the horse doesn’t finish the race, the writer becomes biased against picking that horse again until the horse can prove its a smart pick again. Case in point: John Clayton. I always felt like Clayton gave the Broncos the benefit of the doubt. He was in the Cutler camp before we drafted him and when he covered the AFC (a few years back when Pasquarelli covered the NFC) for ESPN, those were the years when Denver could run the ball with an overweight, blind turkey and pick up and easy 2,000 rushing yards a season. So Denver received lots of attention. Sure, we lost in the playoffs every year, but the Chiefs, Raiders, and Chargers simply weren’t consistent enough to stay in the headlines. Clayton spent a lot of time in Denver and got to know Shanahan and his organization. Like us fans (or “the royal we” – borrowed from Lebowski, himself), Clayton felt like Denver was comfortably predictable. He could say, safely, that Denver would make a particular personnel move or coaching move. Broncos fans felt that way too.

Over the course of around four months, Denver’s organization has undergone an “EXTREME Makeover”. Shanny’s gone. Cutler’s gone. Most of the coaches are gone. Lots of the players (that the MSM killed us for keeping over the past few years) are gone too. There are so many reasons why this is good but the biggest reason Clayton and his peers hate it is that they has no effing clue what to say about Denver because nobody outside of McDaniels or Bowlen have any idea what to expect.

Imagine Marvin Lewis prior to the week 1 Denver game trying to put together a game plan the first time aginst McDaniels. There’s no film, no precedent, and no footing with which to make any assumptions or predictions about the Broncos. That’s how the MSM feels. It even seems like whenever they do predict something (like the draft) that McDaniels throws the for ANOTHER loop. For better or worse, McDaniels just doesn’t subscribe to the POPULAR way you draft players or organize a team. That’s a writer’s worst nightmare, right?

by super7 on May 11, 2009 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions   2 recs

That was a great post. Thank's for the refresher. :)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nicely stated, super7

Agree completely!

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on May 11, 2009 7:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's more than just the QB

We also don’t have our two-time Superbowl winning future HOF coach.

There are so many other question marks its not even funny.

Yes they are singling (spelling?) us out and often single our team out. But I think its at least a little justified. I mean I have never been this anxious about a team. I really have no idea what to expect from the Broncos this year.

The only other team this year that has had as much change as the broncos is NE. No one is going to be risky say NE might be picking in the top 5 this year. Even though i think they actually have a greater chance at failure. There is no Cassel this year. They’ve lost alot of the management and coordinators and the team is getting older. If Brady fails to perform after the season they could loose the majority of their games.

So we are going to be the focus of a lot of criticism this year. (Its the safe bet for the reporters)

by trumanj on May 11, 2009 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blech.
Our D was historically bad.

This is getting old. It was historically bad in the sense that we aren’t used to seeing defense played at such a low level, but if I remember correctly, there were a couple defenses worse than ours and the worst gave up the second most points ever. THAT is a historically bad defense.

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!

by SlamDunkTheFunk on May 11, 2009 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair to FO, they have objective data to support the statement...

… that last year’s D was “historically bad.”

Remember, they’re the folks that transform play-by-play data into “efficiency ratings” that objectively rate teams on success in creating first downs/points compared to the “average team”.

In the ~15 years of data they have transformed to develop their advanced stats (since 1994 I think?), I believe our D last year was the 2nd worst in the history of their stats, second only to the Lions last year (yes, the 2 worst D’s in their history happened last year).

You can get upset about the technicality of whether points allowed, yards allowed, or some advanced “efficiency” rating is the best way to measure/compare historical defenses… but we can’t dispute that last year’s D was REALLY bad.

Once again, can we stop with the whining and persecution complex?

Disco_Stu – your argument that folks are fed up with the constant MSM barrage, including some unfair comments or lack of “better” alternatives is well taken… but I think that can co-exist with my arguments as well.

by cjfarls on May 11, 2009 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

besides...having Detriot and KC beat you out for "worst" is nothing to be happy about. ;-)

"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels

by Colorado_Kitten on May 11, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

the defense was really bad. There’s no way to rationally deny that, but okay. You’re right. It’s a technicality. Have at it, boss.

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!

by SlamDunkTheFunk on May 11, 2009 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our defense is actually HISTORICALLY GOOD.

We are currently TRENDING BAD. There is a difference there.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

touche

well played sir, well played ;-)

by cjfarls on May 11, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on May 11, 2009 7:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

Yeah, Turner and Moreno together makes me really happy. Thanks for starting out my Monday with a smile!

I agree the Mets broadcasting team is good, but I will take the blind passion and hilarity of Ron Santo calling my Cubs any day!

by madtown on May 11, 2009 9:45 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for making my Monday, Ted

Being retired has good and less good sides. One thing that I love about STNO is that I know when it’s Monday…Just kidding. I love the chance to walk in your perspective for a while and I always come away with something to think about, which is exactly why I like to read. I particularly liked this bit:


MHR will be directly competing against the likely-to-someday-exist ESPNDenver.com. Our model is very different, in that we’re a participatory community rather than a sermon on a mount, but in the marketplace of ideas, we’ll be facing off more directly than ever with ESPN. It should be interesting.

I agree. The demise of print media will have continuing repercussions that are only dimly being perceived. Nature and economics abhor a vacuum and the issue of ‘what next?’ will be ‘fascinating’ at the least, to Trek out for a second.

What MHR offers that ESPN neither can nor wants to is detailed research, in depth analysis and the teaching of football systems and roles that isn’t part of their media model and a vast array of dedicated who constantly search the Web and bring back information for review and dissemination in a way that even a global company cannot do. Each of these aspects strengthens our overall product – the better informed and more committed Broncos fan. Since we have people in law, finance, criminal justice, computer information, coaches and dozens of other fields, we have the ability to provide a wide range of perspectives and knowledge that ESPN neither can nor wished to provide. As members and staff alike have repeatedly proclaimed – its the members that make this site as unique as it is beautiful.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on May 11, 2009 10:21 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Wonderfully put

MHR also has something else ESPN & the MSM will never have, and that is people who are passionate about our Broncos. Even if there is one day a ESPNDenver.com, their employees will never be as passionate about the Broncos that the MHR members are. They may hire workers who are passionate about sports in general, but the real key to teh quality of output here at MHR is each and every member loves the Broncos and is very passionate about analyzing, researching, and writing about what asubject that they love. To whoever is employed at the future ESPNDenver.com, it will just be a job (as it is with all of these hacks in the MSM).

The MSM is in for a tough long journey if they ever plan on competing with the quality of MRH. The MSM however, seems to have no intentions of ever producing such quality work when it comes to sports journalism.

If we could have just screwed another head on his shoulders, he would have been the greatest QB who ever lived.

by c_style on May 11, 2009 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Playmakers

I like to think the best Defense is a good Offense. We added a superstar in the backfield to give us greater control of the ball. The pats for years have schemed short quick passes, essentially the west-coast offense revitalized. If we hold the ball for 35 minutes a game it stands to reason our D will be rested and raring to go. Last year I was under the impression that we could never get our D off the field and they wore down (except when the fired up rooks were involved, then we ROCKED (see the Atlanta game). So I have to believe the addition of Knowshon will really be a huge benefit to our D.

Secondly, we were simply CRUSHED in ‘08 by runs which were supposed to be stopped for 2-3 yards and ended up going for 15-30 yards. That kills a D. Champ and Bly were 10 yards back because they had no over help with one of the safeties in the box helping Webster find his helmet. And the safeties simply couldn’t tackle. Didn’t one guy go from starter one week to off the roster the next?? Man. So you gotta believe that stopping a run for 3 yards instead of 13 is going to make a huge difference.

Finally, it’s the NFL, the QBs are awesome, the receivers are incredible (I play ultimate frisbee and once played against a college linebacker who had graduated the year before and was seeing if he wanted to get involved in disc and there was no way I could keep up with him and I’m pretty fast and in really good shape) so they are gonna complete their passes. Better to stuff the run and make ’em pass and have those ball hawks back there for picking an errant pass or two off.

Suffice it to say I’m stoked about the team, the HC, the draft choices and the upcoming season. And shoot, everyone gets injuries, the pats just lost their top draft choice to a busted ACL, out for the season. So we’ll cope, same as everyone else does.

If people aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat??

by BigDave on May 11, 2009 11:17 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

This is actually my assessment as well.

I think we need another playmaker or 2 on the D-line to really get the oomph to be able to consistently shut down opposing running games. As such, my best guess is ~8-8 again this year.

However, I think we’re positioning ourselves to be a force NEXT year and beyond. The building blocks are falling into place, IF some of the new & young guys (Ayers, McBath, Smith, Moreno and the D-line young’uns/UDFAs) pan out.

by cjfarls on May 11, 2009 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

A denver Ultimate player???

Maybe I have seen you on the fields!!!

by gOOn on May 11, 2009 5:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possible alternates to Thunder and Lightning

Sledge (or Sledge-hammer) and Slash
Juggernaut and Jam
Rambler and Racer
The Quick and the Delivern’ a Hurtin.

TD and Howard Griffith (Sorry – off limits)

Perhaps the MHR crew can come up with more choices. You can add the good ones to a fan poll.

MHR members who suggested the final round of choices and the MHR member who had the combo voted the best (to be posted in a winning Fanpost edition). That way everyone can be onboard with the new moniker.

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on May 11, 2009 12:41 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

How about

Barney Jekyll and Bubba Hyde.

My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season

by KaptainKirk on May 11, 2009 8:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great write up!

I love the MHR community and am proud to say I’ve been here since the near beginning. I welcome the ESPNDenver.com, it will only bring MHR closer together. Great article to start the Monday off with. Rec’d, Buzzed and put it on my facebook homepage.

"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

Vince Lombardi

by Denver_Native on May 11, 2009 12:55 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Fair Expectations

I expect the team to be at least 9-7. Your article makes a good case for it.

by Baltimore Bronco on May 11, 2009 1:02 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Post as always.

And lots of variety for mental exercise in the different topics. I jumped in on the media control thing in the discussion above.

Other things that jumped out.

I completely agree that the Broncos are more talented than last year except at QB, but they may be more disciplined there. That could lead to better results. The media’s negativity is mindless because it can be. They aren’t interested in telling the truth. They are interested in getting us to pay attention to the story. It doesn’t really matter if they start from positive or negative, they can adjust the storyline according to what happens. So if Denver is bad they can do a season long “We told you so,” and if the Broncos are better than expected they can run some combination of “boy genius, overachieving, team coming together, they should have been bad but look at the human spirit overcome” nonsense.

I also agree with you on Michael Vick. Yes, what he did was despicable, but he’s paid the agreed upon penalty that we as a society have deemed appropriate through our legal system. About the only thing there I would disagree with is that it is somehow different with child molesters. If the sentence if five years and a couple years of parole for molesting a kid then the person that did it should be allowed to rejoin society after they’ve paid. It’s not a matter of safety. It’s a matter of making exceptions to individual rights for specific groups. If you have the precedent in place there is no telling which group it will land on next. Here’s my idea for child molesters—if we think they are too dangerous to be allowed back in society and that the crime is more heinous than the current punishments account for why don’t we just put child molesters away for life instead of trying to figure out how to bypass their rights.

by jaffe28 on May 11, 2009 1:18 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thank you TB

on a side note The rockets are UNDEFEATED against the Lakers without Yao

http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on May 11, 2009 1:40 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks TB great insight as always

I completely agree that we have much more talent on this team then the team that ended last season. We signed some very underrated FA and brought in very good class of Rookies(drafted and college free agents). We also improved the coaching staff. Yes we lost Shanahan but he was Replaced by Mcdaniels who knows how to create a mismatch as good as anyone and we greatly improved our Defensive coaching with the hiring of Nolan, Nunnley, Martindale, and Donatell. We also got Clancy Barone the TE coach that turned Alge Crumpler and Antonio Gates into Pro Bowl Players. With the upgrade in talent and the upgraded coaching staff we should easily be able to win at least 8 games. People are really sleeping on how good this team could be this year. We could easily challege SD for the Division

by gnarlybroncodude on May 11, 2009 4:45 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

Great read!

As an unabashed “law and order” type, I agree with your take on Vick. Once he’s paid his debt, its been paid. On the other hand, it is entirely up to a private entity (the NFL and any of the teams) if they want to take a chance on him. Public image is important to the NFL, and Vick made a few PR errors with his choices. While I agree with the idea that a paid debt means an erased debt, the government (through the courts) allows businesses to ask if someone is a prior felon. It does seem to go to trust.

Tough call all around. Frankly, my humble opinion is that Vick is likely not able to compete at a level to make him a viable starting QB at this point. I’ve always seen him as more of a passing HB (more HB than QB) that would go great with the Miami offensive scheme.

Again, great stuff!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 7:00 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

7. Retired for John Elway.

This was simply, AWESOME

Great write up.

Say hello to my fast...

by dcrespo7 on May 12, 2009 11:20 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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