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MHR University - The 3-4; Red-Zone Adjustments

If you ever get out to Indiana and decide you want to try your hand at coaching 7th-grade football, be careful.  Just north of Indianapolis lies Westfield Middle School (home of the Shamrocks).  I've seen the facilities on the east side of 31 driving to Indy, and they are very, very impressive.  There, Coach Todd Hagemeier runs a 3-4 defense.  Not a lot of middle schools can go that route, and he even tells me they also use a scheme that transposes from a 3-4 into a 46.  Wow!

Todd writes this e-mail to MHR University:

...I started doing some digging on the 3-4 and your site came up.  You do a great job and I plan on using your info for my 7th grade team this fall.  I am also living in Indiana AND a Purdue fan.  So getting to my questions.  Have you considered writing about the aspects of the 3-4 in the red zone, how a coach should call the defense, and maybe even more importantly what NOT to do in the red zone?...

This is a wonderful question, and well worth the time for all of us to look at in some depth.  Let's take a look at implications...

Star-divide

3-4 and 4-3 Distinctions

First, let's look at a few generalizations about the 3-4 (compared to the 4-3) to get some context.

The 4-3 has one more D-Lineman at the line of scrimmage (LOS), making interior runs by the offense more difficult.  Because of the extra D-Lineman, the LBs get better protection from the DL so that they can do their job.  In fact, LB great Ray Lewis once famously said he was thrilled one year when the Ravens went to a 4-3 because he wanted more protection from run blocking O-Linemen.

The 3-4 is spread out more horizontally (East - West), so it can be more effective at stopping runs to the edges (such as "sweeps").

In football, most plays are runs, and most of those are interior runs.  For this reason, the 4-3 has been dominant for some time.  But the 3-4 is gaining adherents because it brings a lot of advantages.

For one, a lot of folks believe it is easier to find quality LBs than quality defensive linemen.  Because of the extra LB, another school of thought says that the LBs can be a little less skilled than their 4-3 counterparts.  Because of the athleticism of LBs (supposedly over D-Linemen), there are more playmakers on the field in a 3-4 to make tackles, zone, man, get to a fumble, and intercept.  And while a 3-4 may give up short yardage up the gut, it also plays into a "clock control" scheme where the opposing offense has to use a lot of time to drive down the field, and thus has more chances to make mistakes (such as turnovers).  With the pro's having gone from a running game in the early years to a more balanced approach, the 3-4 provides more playmakers in passing lanes, and more complexity in blitz schemes.

Why am I impressed by a middle school that can run a 3-4?  A lot of 7th grade programs (small programs in particular) are run-oriented on both sides of the ball.  A lot of programs use 1-WR sets, and a lot of defenses run with 1 CB and 1 SAF (often a 4-4).  A 3-4 formation has more complexity that the 4-3.  This tells me that Todd's program likely falls into a few categories...

  1. A large school with a lot of players to recruit from (in the case of Westfield, I believe this is certainly the case)
  2. Intelligent players that can handle more responsibilities than the 4-3 (again, a large recruitment pool is part of it.  Quality coaching is another).
  3. With two CBs on the field, the school is probably playing against opponents who are willing to throw the ball.  These opponents may come from programs as large and effective as Westfield (perhaps they play some of the large Indy schools?)

I got my start in 7th-grade coaching.  We ran 4-4 at the middle-school level, and only bumped up to 4-3 at the HS level (some of our HS opponents were smaller programs using a 4-4 as a base formation).

3-4 Red Zone Adjustments

What makes the red zone an issue in play-calling?  Well, the ratio of defensive players to available field of play (AFP) is greater, so the job of the offense is made more difficult.

AFP?  That's a fancy acronym I picked up from notes at a football seminar.  The concept is that the offense is only working with the field to their sides and front.  As they move down the field, less plays and passing routes are available (such as long passes).  Add into the mix that the defense becomes denser (because they are playing on a smaller field), and the AFP doctrine dictates that the defense is at an advantage.  But there's more.

The offense has some advantages too.  For one, the field-goal potential is there.  The defense has to balance the potential of a TD with the potential to get in range for a sure 3 points.  This is easier for defenses at the 7th-grade level, where FGs may be less common than the pros.

Another offensive advantage is that a shot at the end zone for a TD is easier in the red zone, because it doesn't require a long and precise pass as it would if LOS was on the other end of the field.

So how does the 3-4 fit in?

The shortest path to the end zone is a straight line.  This is a good thing, because most of us coaches don't want to mess with difficult, non-Euclidean concepts.  The 4-3 stops the straight line (interior running) more effectively than the 3-4 (on balance), so perhaps the 3-4 might be considered a lesser alternative. 

Not so fast.

Consider the concept of AFP again.  The field shortens vertically, not horizontally.  The 4-3 has the advantage of stopping dives and gut runs, but in a shortened field the player positions are like putting all of your eggs in one basket.  Picture a 4-3 on a field, and the field being shortened (and the players in the 4-3 being bunched together towards the LOS).  There are a lot of holes outside the DEs for the offense to exploit.  In 7th-grade football (where QBs are not pros), the passes are easier to make, and it only takes a pass or two in short yardage to score.  (Note that a 7th-grade red-zone is shorter than a pro red-zone.  The actual defining yard line for a red zone depends on what each coach thinks his red zone is). 

Now picture a 3-4 in the same shrinking field. 

Peregrine34300_medium
via www.monsterden.net

There is now a wall of players covering a wider area of the field, making passes more difficult (as well as runs to the edges).  There is also space for defensive players to work in, allowing more freedom of movement as well as more visibility of the ball carrier (which is made more difficult with a wall of defensive linemen).

Thus, the 4-3 takes away the most potent weapon in the red zone (interior running), but the 3-4 takes away more weapons overall (everything else).  So what adjustments does the 3-4 defensive coordinator make?

On one level, it depends on his players and the tendencies of the other team.  But we can still name some adjustments that are important overall.  A coach should adjust the thinking on the following, based upon their knowledge of their own team and the opponent.

First, Shore Up the Interior

Player placement and play calling on defense should adjust for the weakness of the 3-4 interior when the red zone is reached.  Giving up short yards is no longer an option when short yards are near the end zone.  Consider an ILB manned on the RB, or at the very least to be zoned near the DL.  Plugging up the gaps with both ILBs (with a SAF in the box) is another route.

Next, Contain the Edges

3-4 OLBs in the red zone often play containment.  This means that they zone over the LOS on the offensive side of the ball.  If a run comes to them, they DO NOT make the tackle until the RB turns upfield (this requires a smart kid at OLB who is also patient). 

There are 10 defensive players behind a RB nearing the edge of the field, and when he turns back, any of a number of players can take him.  But if he reaches the sideline and then turns upfield, there are few (if any) players to make the tackle.  A missed tackle in this postion is unthinkable.  So the OLB stays in front of the RB (and slightly upfield), running with him and pressuring him to make the cut upfield with every step to a useless sideline.  When the RB turns upfield  the OLB can make the tackle, and the delay in time allows other defensive players to close the distance.

In this instance, the job of the OLB is to "vector" the opposing player back to the interior, where more defensive support exists.  It also has the major advantage of placing an OLB in a passing lane used for screens, a common offensive passing-technique in the redzone.

Player Adjustments

The size of the field has shrunk.  Speed is less of a factor.  Power is more important on offense, and tackling is more important on defense.  Pull any fast guys who aren't the best tacklers.  The small size of the field (and the higher ratio of defensive players to AFP) should balance for any disadvantages in speed.

Ironically, the 4-3 is different.  Because the players are bunched more to the center of the field (and because you lose a faster linebacker to a an extra D-Lineman), you need a little more speed to cover the open areas in the seams.

Tone Down the Blitzes / Take Away the Run

Blitzes are great, but they often put players out of position if the offense is running the ball.  In the red zone, take away the run.  The reasons are many:

  1. On a short field, chances are good that the defense is wearing down.  If the defense is 3-4, the chances are good that the offense got into this position after a long drive (and some bend-don't-break play).
  2. Turnovers are more likely on a pass play, as are plays with no gain in yardage.
  3. The shortened field makes passes more difficult against a 3-4, while the run can still be more effective.
  4. Less blitzing invites more passing (playing into the 3-4s shortened field advantage).

Simplicity

Tired players, and/or players who have to think are going to be at a disadvantage in the red zone on defense.  One reason is that trick plays or even very choreographed / massively practiced plays by the offense are unleashed more often in red zones.  Mistakes that can be recovered on any other part of the field are deadly in the red zone.  Now is the time for players to be able to play on instinct and rehearsed reaction instead of trying to remember a tricky play where a player may have multiple responsibilities.

This goes for offenses too.  If the team was good enough to get to the end zone, they should be good enough to just keep punching it in.  But a lot of coaches (I'm sure you know a few) like to drop what worked for them and get "creative" in the red zone.  Something about the red zone makes some offensive coordinators too "chancy", while others become too cautious.  Caution is less of an issue at the 7th-grade level, because the sure thing of a FG is less likely for most 7th-grade teams.

Either way, now is the time for the players on the defense to take advantage of the short field, play their own portion of the field, and use the good athletic skills of an early teenager (but not the excitable and mistake prone minds of same).

Motivation

There are times to fire up 7th graders, and there are times when firing up a kid is a mistake.  For instance, firing up a kid to make a goal-line dive is excellent.  His mind is focused, the task is simple and physical.  But firing up a kid before he is called on to execute a complex scheme is a bad call.  I've seen plenty of times when a coach has fired up the team at the wrong moment, and the players skills disintegrated.

As a coach, one can talk to, shout at, or whisper to a kid during a football game and see the same thing.  Kids often have a faraway look, thinking about what they just did or what they are going to do.  Coaches often shout at players not because the coach is a drill sergeant, but because the testosterone and andreniline in a young athlete is blocking out the words of the coach.

The opposing offense is on your side of the field, and you've correctly simplified the plays for your defense.  Go ahead and fire up the team.  Each player should have a simple responsibility at this point, to wit; tackle the ball carrier, plug a gap, play man or zone, or contain the edge (the most difficult).  Note the "or" in the last sentence; no "and".  Keep the guys simple, angry, and focused.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm sure Coach Todd knows his team and his competitors well, and knows which things I've written will help in his situation and which won't.  But the overall concepts are useful for watching a 3-4 in use during an NFL game.

Much of the issues are different.  The pro players are less excitable (for the most part), and focus much better.  They've been doing this for years, and at a level that a 7th grader can only dream about in terms of practice and complexity.  Pro-level teams have a further range for FGs, and much more complex pass schemes (and much more accurate and stronger QBs).  This makes the red zone trickier for defenses at the NFL level.  Then again, the defensive players and minds are a lot sharper too.

But the inherent advantages and disadvantages of the 4-3 and 3-4 remain pretty close.  One isn't "better" than the other.  They are just meant to do different things.  Each is played differently, depending on what part of the field the team is on (as well as consideration for down and distance).

I'm hopeful that a look at the 3-4 (in the red zone and at a 7th-grade level) helps to bring out some knowledge of these differences to make everyone's football watching a little more fun.

All the best to everyone, and a bit of extra good luck to the Westfield Shamrocks and Coach / faculty member Todd Hagemeier on their campaign this year.

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(Courtesy - County29.net)

HT

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With all due respect...

…to the other VERY talented writers on this site, I still get a little extra excited when I see MHR-U show up. Thank you once again, HT!

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on May 11, 2009 11:47 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Me too!

I see the crest and am excited to open the article.

It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09

by firstfan on May 11, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks guys.

You’re both too kind.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

add a 3rd me too

:D HT, awesome presentation

Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.

by BShrout on May 11, 2009 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks BShrout!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 3:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

i always thought the 3-4 was lame

and i was upset when i heard our broncs would be adapting it.
that being said, the 3-4 is awesome!! – great work, filled me in on a lot

"Have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?"
- "I don't listen to hip-hop"

"Born like this / Into this"

by BroncoJoe311 on May 11, 2009 11:54 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I've never been a 3-4 guy.

But it isn’t lame by any stretch. Its just different.

There are several articles on the 3-4 if you go to the front page, look in the left panel, and click on Mile High University. Scroll through the articles, and you’ll find some stuff on the 3-4 there.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your welcome!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a simple question

Wouldn’t you say many teams in the NFL use a hybrid 4-3 defense. Often the Defensive ends drop into coverage(into the flats, or occasionally match up with a TE). There not a true OLB, but they fill there roles. With that being said, do you think this is the main reason we picked up Moss, Dumerville and Crowder in the past, and most recently Ayers? Players who can play at the line, but also play an “OLB” when needed. By keeping the same players in, but changing the scheme can keep an offense off balance. With a 3-4 having a weaknesses and 4-3 having weakness, wouldn’t a hybrid defense be the way to go?

by diviesti on May 11, 2009 12:10 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff.

Yes and no.

A lot of folks think that the adjustment between 4-3 and 3-4 is radical. This is really only the case in how the NT plays in relation to a DT. The rest of the positions are pretty much the same (though some players, particularly DEs, are more suited to one or the other).

NTs in some 3-4s play a 2 gap that requires extreme compentancy. If he can’t occupy 2 OLmen, he can’t do the job (many of these guys are at 315 lbs at the very least). Other NTs can play a one gap scheme with an assist from one of the LBs.

DEs matching up with a TE or playing a zone more than a few plays are typically in a zone blitz system. Outside of that, there is some risk involved when a defense isn’t using the player most suited for coverage. The ZB system (most typically the Lebeau ZB) depends on DEs who can do sme coverage, but the mix of unexpected blitzing angles and coverage make up for the lack of a LB or SAF in the coverage roles.

I don’t think we picked up Moss, Doom, or Crowder for that reason. At the time, we weren’t using them much in that role. Fortunately, they look like good rushing OLBs (as well as DEs) that could fit in Nolan’s defense.

There are advantages and disadvantages to a hybrid scheme. One school of thought (I’ve always bought into) is that you should use specialists in their best roles for maximum effect. Another school of thought (which I don’t ascribe to, but it is equally valid) is that a hybrid approach covers more situations and provides more flexibility across the board. So is it the way to go? The best way to answer your question (in my opinion) is to say, “It depends on how good the players and the coach are”. It is less important which approach a team takes than how well it is executed.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the reply

Essentially a NT that can play 2 gap is the foundation to a hybrid working consistently(obviously more things need to happen, but keeping it basic). If Fields succeeds in this role, do you forsee the Broncos this year doing more of a hybrid defense rather than completely transitioning to a 3-4? I feel we are in that unique position where we can use our DE/LB’s to play to their specialty. By doing that we can have more flexibility, and cover more situations. IMO this is why we went after secondary as opposed to LB’s and prototypical lineman. All of this means squat however if do not have a NT that can take on 2 Ol’s.

by diviesti on May 11, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hybrid.

I expect that we’ll predominantly play 3-4, but keep much of the hybrid approaches in place. Of course, I could be entirely wrong too. But that seems to be how it is shaking out.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've said this before...

but I feel it bears repeating. MHR-U is the reason I started reading MHR. I have learned so much about football over the past year, and I have HT to thank in large part. HT, it is a privilege to read your work, not to mention work with you. Buzzed and Rec’d.

by Douglas A. Lee on May 11, 2009 12:17 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

+ billions!

I have learned more about the nuts and bolts of football reading HT’s stuff since finding MHR than I have in the last 20 years watching the game as what I thought was an “informed” fan

by Stuman on May 11, 2009 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you both.

You guys rock!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

A+

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 12:22 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Whew!

I was worried about what I was going to get!

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on now, you know I am very easy to please. lol

Seriously though, I have learned a lot from you over the past two plus years.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah,

but still, a “plus”?

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah, I forgot...they changed it recently..

You get a FOUR. We don’t do grades in Kalifornia anymore.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 11, 2009 5:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

(Rolling eyes)

I’m surprised. I thought they gave out “pass” or “almost pass”.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

great stuff as always HT

Indeed… even if I wasn’t a Bronco fan, I’d have to read MHR just for MHR-U.

by cjfarls on May 11, 2009 12:25 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

MHR seems to get a lot of non-Broncos fans...

…who enjoy some of the general articles we have. Every now and then we get comments that “I’m a fan of team ____, and they didn’t have much news today. I can always come to MHR and get something.” I love those!

Of course, you ARE a Broncos fan, so that’s extra cool.

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post HT, thanks and rec'd.

It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09

by firstfan on May 11, 2009 12:50 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Your thanks are always appreciated FirstFan.

God bless.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

hoosierteacher must live somewhere between South Bend and Kokomo?

by sc31089 on May 11, 2009 12:59 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

With some research...

..one could pin it down, but you are pretty much on target. With my work with bad guys (see profile) I try not to advertise too much about my personal life outside of the MHR staff. But yes, I live in the northern half of the state near 31.

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great job!!

As usual, your expertise on the nuts and bolts of football is invaluable.

by Stuman on May 11, 2009 1:05 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Stuman!

All the best to you!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent!

+1 to what everyone else said about loving MHR University.

So I have a question – how would one, and how did you, get into coaching. A lot of the HS coaches we had were teachers who just happened to be interested in a sport – apart from one who’s now head coach of a Pro Rugby team. And I got into soccer coaching after being asked by a friend of a friend. So I’m just interested in how you got into it.

by mikebirty on May 11, 2009 1:06 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I was a 6th grade teacher who got my start coaching a 7th grade team.

When I moved to the HS level of coaching, I continued to learn under yet another great HC. Our program sent us to a lot of wonderful seminars, where I received a lot of valuable insight from several collegiate and pro level coaches.

I don’t think I’m neccessarily one of the best coaches (defensive coordinators) out there. I was fortunate enough to be picked up by MHR, and I like to think that I make an effort not to write over peoples heads, nor to treat them like simpletons. I have a passion for systems (styles) which don’t get a lot of coverage in the MSM (or get misrepresented), and I also lke to write about the nuts and bolts that the MSM doesn’t seem to have the time for. I also try to make myself available to the readership, which is something that MSM sites and media can’t keep up with.

To get started in coaching (even if you don’t teach), start out at a city level (such as the Police Athletic League or Pop Warner). It isn’t important how much you know. Patience, character, the abilty to teach, and an empathy for fun over competition is more important, and they’ll help you. When you are ready to make the jump, approach the athletic directors at various schools about volunteering in some assistant coaching role. As you build credibility, some school districts may welcome you into a paid position. There will be a shift to competition at this point (you are getting paid to win games, in part), but knowing that winning teams spring from young men who have strong virtues that you can instill is still prime.

(Love rugby! I played in college!)

Best of luck to you. Let us know if you get a spot somewhere. It would make a great post!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

you mean you're not gonna use techno babble like the MSM pundits?

then how are we supposed to know that you know so much more than us?

OMG – you mean us humble fans are capable of understanding the complexities?

:D

HT – I don’t think you’ll ever have to worry about writing over our heads; I have yet to see an instance where you were not able to make sense of what was going on to someone like me who has never coached (other than a couple of girls intramural teams in college). Thank you so much for your time and patience and the ability to make the complex understandable.

Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.

by BShrout on May 11, 2009 3:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've always disliked..

..how some talking heads throw out technical terms with no context, and the poor fan is left feeling clueless. A lot of the time, the speaker is rehashing a term that is in vouge (such as “3 technique” or “cover two”) and misuses it terribly anyway.

I appreciate the chance to share some of what I’ve learned. But honestly, I learn an awful lot myself here. I was at the HS level. But a lot of staff and members know an awful lot about salary cap implications, draft issues, legal and medical issues in sports, that I am always awed.

Thanks again!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

so much information and so helpful

thanks so much !

reading the work you do makes it that much more enjoyable to watch (and truly understand) the game of football, and in particular makes it that much more exciting to look at the new direction of the Broncos under McDaniels.

sheer awesomeness, and thanks again HT !

highly rec’d !

by Jenna Talia on May 11, 2009 1:21 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Jenna!

I appreciate your kind words.

Sheer your welomenedness!

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your location caught my attention because I also call northern Indiana home & used to be a Colorado (Denver) resident. Good to know I’m not the only Bronco fan in Colts/Bears territory.

by sc31089 on May 11, 2009 1:32 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll bet you're homesick too!

I always miss the rockies. Maybe someday…

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are so right

Actually, Oregon is “home” for me and my wife but I loved my time in Colorado.
yeah…… maybe someday. Until then…….. corn
Anyway, thanks for all the time and effort you guys put into this site. I stumbled upon this website during the Cutler fiasco and don’t spend very much time with the D Post anymore. I always stop here first. – Keep up the good work

by sc31089 on May 11, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Pmac!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 6:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really miss Colorado.

I hope I have an excuse to move back someday. I’m not big on the cornfields out here, but I did meet my wife here and have a wonderful daughter, so I guess it balances out.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can relate

I grew up in Denver, my parents decided moving to Missouri when I was 15 was the thing to do?? I miss Colorado a lot, the weather here in NW Missouri sucks! I remember that first year we moved out here, it was middle of the summer, and one of the more nasty humid summers to boot. I was sure I was going to die, and I still hate humidity to this day and I have lived here for nearly 18 years now. Most of the rest of my family still lives in and around Denver and western Kansas so I try to make it out there as much as I can which unfortunately do to some health problems with my youngest son I haven’t been able to make it out there in almost 5 years.

by Stuman on May 11, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whenever I have visited Missouri,

I’ve been appalled at the humidity. Its nice and dry in Colorado (thus less cold, less hot, and much less sweat), and Indiana isn’t too bad (but still a little humid).

But Colorado…. Ahhhhh!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

You aren't kidding

it is terrible here. Gets colder than Denver ever did by a long shot and it usually stays that way for 4 months. I hate it!

by Stuman on May 12, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I grew up in St Louis.

Live and die with the Cardinals and Blues. Never got into the Cardinals (football) although I did see Jim Hart, Otis Anderson and Roy Green play.

But I’ll never go back. Denver is home. Humidity sucks. Too hot in summer too cold in winter. :)

The Artist formerly known as "DenverCardsFan" .

Go Nuggets!

by HockeyHippie on May 12, 2009 6:12 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I had a valid reason for going backto Denver

I would already be there. Unfortunately I have a good job here, and my family now, etc…. And I will give it one thing I can live here (at least where I am) for about 1/4 what it would cost me in Denver

by Stuman on May 12, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great work once again

During my short time here at MHR, Ive come to really enjoy reading the MHR-U articles. I’ve been a football fan for 2 years now, and I try to learn anything I possibly can about schemes, tactics, and everything for that matter…

Thanks so much for taking the time to write these things up. It’s a pleasure to read, very clear, and great knowledge to have while watching.

Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands

by BroncosNL on May 11, 2009 1:35 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a pleasure to write them for you.

All my best to you and your friends in the great Netherlands!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

HT

fantastic as always sir.

And if I could ask a question or make a recommendation for a future post. What coach’s do you watch and/or admire and why? Somebodies in game managment or pregame preperations that stand out to a much more trained eye like yours. Also you mentioned your a Def Coord, what style do you coach and why?

just trying to soak up as much of your excelent knowledge as I can

sbhchawk

by sbhchawk on May 11, 2009 1:46 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

Every coach has things I admire and don’t. I’ll stick with the positives here.

Shanahan – Excellent game prep (except when he delegates away the playcalling)
Dungy – Class act (how a coach should act)
Gruden – Motivator
Bellichick – Organizational skills / game planning
Holmgrem – Play calling
Cowher – Player development
Billick – Game management

I could go on, but those stand out at the moment.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice write-up, HT!

I’ve really come to look forward to MHRU. Really appreciate the care and detail you bring to your writing! Thanks!

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on May 11, 2009 3:08 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Montana.

BTW, who is Rhino the Hamster?

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

character in the animated movie "Bolt"

Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.

by BShrout on May 11, 2009 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow!

Coincidence. My daughter is watching it in the other room as we speak! (My wife picked it up for her tonight).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 6:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me know what you think of the Hamster

I think he’s a master motivator! LOL

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on May 11, 2009 7:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

My daughter's favorite, by the way ^^

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on May 11, 2009 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another fine piece to learn from

Thanks so much HT! Your understanding and ability to convey are incredible. MHR-U, the one stop shop for knowledge!

Moreno in 2009! - Check
Taylor Mays in 2010!

by Steve O' on May 11, 2009 3:43 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

But really, not “one stop”. There are tons of story and posts to pick up knowledge at MHR, and I’m grateful to be one amongst many.

Thank you so much for the kind words.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent post - recommended

One question, with may teams switching to 3-4, do you think the talent pool will start to favor 4-3 defensive choices in the NFL draft? At one time the Steelers could get high quality players for low draft picks due to few teams running the 3-4.

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on May 11, 2009 5:17 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think so.

What’s available to pro teams is dictated more by what comes from the college level than is demanded by the pro level, at least in my opinion. Other good minds may disagree.

The majority opinion seems to be (from what I’ve read and heard) is that LBs are easier to find because they are the types of athletes who flock to sports (the stereotyped “fast, muscled, tough”) like football, baseball and basketball, while DLmen are very specialized (big, but with good balance and strong).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 6:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

First time reader

First time reader, great article. Keep ’em coming!

Quick question HT, is there a strategic difference between the two ILBs in a 34?

by oneline on May 11, 2009 5:39 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes!

Though the difference is more tactical than strategic.

Read this article from MHR University, which is exactly about the difference between the two ILBs. We’ve got you covered at MHR!

Welcome to the site and the family!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 6:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coming from Arrowhead Pride

Thanks a million HT. I’ve read (I think) all your MHR-U’s so this is as usual top notch work….and very relevant since we’re also making the 3-4 switch.

I appreciate the time you put into your posts (and, on an under-rated note, taking the time to respond to all questions in the comments as well). This helps me get a visual in my mind. Since the 3-4 has become more popular only in recent years, I am very far behind on my knowledge of it.

by Joel Thorman on May 11, 2009 6:59 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Prime!

If there’s anything I can help answer for you or any of our friends at AP, have them swing by any time. The vast majority of us are pretty friendly, and I love talking Xs and Os with any team’s fans. (I have a soft spot for KC, having lived walking distance from the stadium in the 70s).

Best of luck to you guys (outside of the Denver games, of course).

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 7:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hi HT

Many thanks for another informative article. I’ve really only caught on to MHR this off-season, and I really value your write-ups. Since I never played football growing up, I’ve never really had a reference frame on which to hang a more developed knowledge of the game.

So, you’ve helped me understand some of the science (and art :) of the game…. And as I go back to absorb more of your curriculum, I really look forward to seeing the new season with a more educated eye!

by MakeCents on May 11, 2009 7:29 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

The more you know...

…the more you have a deeper appreciation for the game. It really becomes something more of a chess match than a physical pursuit at that point. A well choreographed execution that is well timed and matched against an opposing team’s great efforts becomes, at least to me, more of a beauty of art than a display of science. Again. perhaps like chess, one starts learning at a scientific level (this piece moves here, this opening series works like that), but ends up an art (the position unfolds more like a deadly flower than it is the result of just pieces of wood on a chequered board).

I think football is the same. Line up here, get in this stance, cover that player, keep your head up, etc. Then later, “Wow, that was a match-up of speed versus power and two radicaly different approaches to style. It was a thing of beauty to watch, regardless of who won”.

You’re already appreciating the game for what it really is. I’m grateful that you’ll be watching with an educated eye.

All the best to you!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2009 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've never been that good at chess

Probably because I’m ADD, and tend to get bored or distracted. Or maybe it’s because I’m Left-handed. I DO love strategy and I can appreciate what you say about the comparison. It does bring an extra sensory feeling when you can anticipate what play is going to be called and “get into the coaches head” per se.
   HT, I’m glad you share your knowledge with us. I look forward to each class.
Rec’d, of course.

My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season

by KaptainKirk on May 11, 2009 9:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Strategy --

I’m habitually a strategic thinker, but it was this book that really opened my eyes to the ‘art’ of chess as a kid: http://www.amazon.com/Chess-Traps-Pitfalls-Swindles-Avoid/dp/B001KS4P0C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242100226&sr=8-2. I haven’t played nor read the book in many years; but it reads easy, and is full of concrete examples of that “deadly flower” unfolding, as HT put it.

by MakeCents on May 11, 2009 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have that one!

Two more I love…

The March of Chess Ideas (about different styles through the ages)

Chess Openings: Theory and Practice by Horowitz(a little dated, but one of the best for learning the reasons behind openings and not just rote memorization)

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 12, 2009 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the first article that really clicked for me, HT...

…was your post on the safety/corner interaction late last season. Intuitively, I knew Bly couldn’t be as bad as he appeared to play. With your primer in mind, I began to glimpse the whole of the backfield dance – where he would likely succeed, and where he would fail.
Thanks for the opportunity to converse with you a bit. I see you’re fulfilling a couple of your MHR goals that way :-) and I appreciate it!

by MakeCents on May 11, 2009 10:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the tip MakeCents

I didn’t think Bly was that bad either, but the overall D was terrible and it could be argued that all of the positions had a glaring need.

My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season

by KaptainKirk on May 12, 2009 9:22 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our new guy Smith...

is very, very similar to Bly in how he approaches the game. With better safeties (check) and better playcalling/formations (such as two deep zone safeties; check) and a better pass rush (toss-up), I think Smith will shine; and so should Bailey and Goodman.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 12, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is *exactly* the kind of article I have come to appreciate from MHR.

Thanks from a football neophyte, this helps a lot. Thanks HT. This will get my first ever rec, if I can figger out how to do it…..;)

The Artist formerly known as "DenverCardsFan" .

Go Nuggets!

by HockeyHippie on May 11, 2009 10:56 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

lol

I hope you figure it out, then figure out how to vote for me two or three times! (just kidding)

Thanks!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 12, 2009 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would personally hate to be in Nolan's shoes.

He has so many weapons (players) to choose from, how will he let some go? It just blows my mind at the many possibilities he has. If you were to tell me I had to release 5 or 6 players from the group we have on defense, I wouldn’t know (based on paper) which ones to let go. Do you, HT?

by bfree2bronc on May 11, 2009 11:09 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't either.

At least he has camp and practices to watch, loads of film, and great position coaches. He also knows what he’ll be running.

The disadvatages he has include emotional impact of letting people go, and the heavy stress of making decisions that affect his own career.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 12, 2009 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Kansas City Chief fan

And I found this article very insightful and informative

Thanks for this great read.

I’m looking forward for more of your works.

by andrew33 on May 12, 2009 1:02 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

HT has an archive on this sort of thing.

Anyone new around here who has found this post informative and educational should check out HT’s past MHR-U posts. ;-)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on May 12, 2009 7:59 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glad to have you stopping by andrew33!

Drop in anytime!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 12, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the edgemucation!!!

Yet again, I learn much more about the X’s and O’s than I ever thought I would.

It sure will be more entertaining to watch the games with a more critical eye next season!

Thanks again!

A proud prognostication of 10-6 in 2009!!!

by Broncotodd on May 12, 2009 7:54 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

3-4 in the Red Zone puts added pressure on the ILB?

If the TE rolls over the middle for a pass, or the qb hands off to the rb? Doesn’t this present him a greater responsibility having to watch both simutaneous? If that’s the case, even though the NT takes on 2 OL, wouldn’t there be still a gap open for the run up the middle?

by bfree2bronc on May 12, 2009 2:12 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Good questions

I don’t think it is tougher. If the TE is manned (by an OLB or a SAF), then it’s the responsibility of the guy on coverage to handle him. Anyone in zone is in support if the TE enters the zone. Those are singular responsibilities. Also, if the ILB is in zone then he’s watching the ball (not a RB or TE). He shouldn’t be watching two players at the same time in any event, and really you can’t expect anybody to do that anyway.

As to the gap issue, a 2-gap player is choosing the gap that presents for a potential runner, so there is no need to plug “every” gap in such a scheme. If the 2-gap doesn’t plug his gap, there is a percentage that a LB is plugging too. Failing that, the runner is still likely manned. Add to that any player zoning the center, and runs should be stopped with proper execution. Now it just comes down to the ability of the OL and FB to run block and the RB to drive forward, versus the tackling skills of the defense and the ability to shake off run blocks.

In other words, proper execution will have a team in the right place at the right time. If both teams execute their play correctly then it comes down to the skills of each individual. (The same is true to a large part in reverse).

Good thinking bfree!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 12, 2009 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Woop, There it is!

I just learned two things on one post. Thank you both.

My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season

by KaptainKirk on May 12, 2009 6:23 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the lessons

Thank you for this article and the rest you have written.

I am new to MHR and although I enjoy watching NFL games and understand most of what I am watching, I do not understand the intiricacies and subtlety of the various different systems used or of the positions played.

Hopefully your articles will provide me with the insight to improve my enjoyment of you national game.

Many Thanks again

by CockneyBronco on May 13, 2009 7:41 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for reading MHR, and for the interest!

Many (if not most) Americans grow up watching the game without knowing some of the subtleties and still enjoy it. But I believe that a deeper look fosters a deeper appreciation for the tactics involved, and add a layer of enjoyment for the fan.

Thank you so much for the kind words, and welcome!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on May 13, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to MHR CockneyBronco

My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season

by KaptainKirk on May 13, 2009 8:58 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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