Why the eff...

by super7 on May 13, 2009 5:33 PM MDT Comment 35 comments

…don’t the Broncos run the no-huddle/hurry-up offense (is there a material difference?) at home?

I read an article featuring Malcolm Gladwell (author of Blink, Outliers, and many other great works) this week and Gladwell is blown away why the Broncos aren’t using the best home field advantage in the league to their advantage.

I considered an article by KaptainKirk that I read on May 7th that was both fantastic and eye opening. Even elite athletes have a harder time recovering in the altitude in Denver.

Gladwell has a great point and although it’s not novel, it resurfaces something painfully obvious. In this day of pro football where coaches and trainers evaluate shuttle times, blood-oxygen levels, vo2 max, and mental capacity, why don’t the coaches in Denver use this to their advantage. I mean, coaches actually videotaped other coaches’ signals (even though Belichick was the only one fingered for it) to gain a perceived advantage. Why would the franchise in Denver not take advantage of the elevation where their stadium is?

Maybe, just maybe someone will figure it out. But what would that take? It would take a quick fire passing game. It would take an offensive line that is very athletic and quick and just as good paving the way for a running back as it would be in pass blocking. It would take great receivers that have differing but interchangeable skill sets that can present a multitude of problems for the pass defenders. It would require a quarterback who could play within the system, take his checkdowns, and keep the chains moving, while staying away from sacks and interceptions. This quarterback would need to move well in the pocket and be able to manage the other players and the pace of the team. He would need to be able to change the play at the line of scrimmage. It would certainly require a huge stable of runningbacks. They would have to have runningback personnel that could adapt and stay fresh and get on and off the field in a hurry. It would require very smart players who truly understood the system and the concept of the plays. Even if we run the fast break, our guys will get tired too. Depth is key. Speed and execution take on heightened importance.

Who has that kind of offense? Just food for thought….

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Get on the Hotline

Call McD. This is a great idea.

My Dad told me about the 4 seasons:
Pre-season
Regular-season
Post-season
Off-season

by KaptainKirk on May 13, 2009 5:50 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs

I am quite sure that plan

is in the works and quite a few more fun wrinkles we never saw before.

"when they find the center of the universe, i know quite a few people that are going to be upset it isn't them" dmitchell624

by dmitchell624 on May 13, 2009 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You lose play variety, and ...

you limit the number of formations that you can run from. Pretty hard to switch from the power set to 4 wide outs while running a hurry up. This makes your play selection more predictable. I mean if the opponents have seen you run only 3 different plays on 3rd and 3, I just like typing 3, then its really not too hard for them to know what is coming.

With that said, I think that it could be worked into the normal flow of the game more. I could see it run between the 20’s on some series and it taking the D by surprise, but really don’t think its viable as a full game strategy.

by gOOn on May 13, 2009 6:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Okay - I agree

I’m not advocating its use on more than half the game though. like your last comment, out of nowhere, it could be effective.

by super7 on May 13, 2009 6:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gladwell doesn't know what he's talking about....

I am a triathlete and a physiology nerd. There’s three important considerations:

1. The altitude affect is seriously over-rated in trained athletes. Remember when Paul Westhead thought the Nuggets would have a huge advantage if they ran fast break all the time?

2. What effect the altitude has is most pronounced in aerobic activities, such as a 10K, not anaerobic activities such a football.

3. The no-huddle costs you in time of possession which has a huge negative impact on your defense. To the defense there’s little difference between a 3 and out that takes 2 mins and a field goal drive that only takes 2 mins.

by SlowWhiteGuy on May 13, 2009 6:16 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs

wow

I am totally impressed

"when they find the center of the universe, i know quite a few people that are going to be upset it isn't them" dmitchell624

by dmitchell624 on May 13, 2009 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

agree, nice comment SWG

See, I sorta thought that too, but would it not be effective late in a game?

by super7 on May 13, 2009 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

our defense would be totally exhausted by the 4th qtr and the other team would run all over us.
Having an effective running game and just wearing down the opponents would be more effective. Plus it would work on the road too!

by SlowWhiteGuy on May 13, 2009 7:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

So there's NO merit in the no huddle used in short stretches during the game?

You may know MUCH better than I do (and it clearly appears that you do), but it seems like if Denver used it if they felt like the other team was wearing down at some point if it just came out of nowhere that it would really finish the defense off and emoralize them at the same time….I’m just spitballing here….I just can’t imagine that it has no merit at all.

Do you think opposing players (especially the widebodies) are worried they’re going to be short of breath all day and it could provide a mental scare too…just looking athis from different angles and the topic isn’t something I’m an expert on (clearly) but coaches would NEVER use the no-huddle if it provided no advantage.

by super7 on May 13, 2009 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's merit to the no huddle

when you catch the other team in the wrong defense and don’t want to give them an opportunity to change personnel, when you want to change the tempo for some reason, or when you want to conserve time. But those don’t have anything to do with altitude.

There can be a psychological element to the elevation and Dan Reeves used to play on that quite a bit. And that can be part of rebuilding the mystique of home field advantage. But it is mostly psychological not physiological.

by SlowWhiteGuy on May 13, 2009 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great Answer..

Thanks SWG.

I like your “stage name” even better now that I know you’re a triathlete guy. Well played sir.

by super7 on May 14, 2009 8:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cutler

probably wasn’t ready for no huddle. i’m guessing that Shanahan saw enough bad reads off of called plays without having to worry about bad reads in a hurry up situation on the fly. as much as i like Cutler, I don’t think his QB I.Q. was that far along yet.

We are ready for an unforeseen event that may or may not occur.—Al Gore

by oxmouth on May 13, 2009 6:22 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs

And Orton EXCELS at no huddle!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????

by boydy2669 on May 13, 2009 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Orton is INCREDIBLE in the no huddle

Kyle is at his best in the no huddle. Every time the Bears used it last year, it was like a hot knife through butter. Orton would consistently slice up opposing defenses and move the ball quickly down the field. Why they didn’t use it more is a mystery to me. Orton looks like Peyton Manning in the no huddle. A great strategy when playing at home and plays to one of many Orton strengths.

by rocko1 on May 13, 2009 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

True, rocko

Let’s not toss the baby with the bathwater – the no huddle has its place, as everyone seems to agree. But the reason that Orton excelled with it was that he is superb at calling audibles. His ability to read defenses and come up with alternative plays is apparently a game changer. McDaniels has already commented that this is one of the strengths that he will require from his offense, so Orton seems to continue to fit it well.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on May 14, 2009 12:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's great to hear!!

I was just going to ask if anyone had input on KO’s play calling ability and whether the coach would let him change plays…..

A proud prognostication of 10-6 in 2009!!!

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams

by Broncotodd on May 14, 2009 8:32 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clock Control is paramount

I can’t help but think of the Houston Oilers, the Atlanta Falcons and Buffalo Bills of my childhood (the 80’s and 90’s) and all the championships they didn’t win. For me, it’s all about controlling the clock and sustaining drives.

by Douglas A. Lee on May 13, 2009 6:41 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs

Yeah, I'm with you NYC

I just think not using it at all…ever…is a mistake. Although SWG’s post likely rings correct, I HAVE to think that for the opposing secondary late in the 2nd half or in the 4th quarter, that it would have SOME effect.

This is a great topic. Would it have ANY effect??

I’m a nerd and dork but know nothing more than what I’ve read on the topic, so any insight is very helpful.

by super7 on May 13, 2009 7:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow. that wood be kool to do. fantastic idea! rec'd!

by Calibroncoboy on May 13, 2009 7:20 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Its no coincidence...

That Orton is one of the best no huddle guys out there…..NO COINCIDENCE!
You dont hink McD knows this….
How many POINTLESS time outs did Denver and Cutler take last year???
More than I want to remember.
That WONT happen with McDaniels…..when the opposition is gasping we will be running NO HUDDLE.
Nothing surer!
Great post man…frickin awesome!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????

by boydy2669 on May 13, 2009 7:35 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...some of those timeouts really had me scratching my head

or throwing my hands up groaning , “Oh come ON, Jay!”

"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels

by Colorado_Kitten on May 13, 2009 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I forgot about those timeouts...

another seemingly insignificant downside to Cutler that can really add up.

by phondonkey on May 13, 2009 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I won't blame those on Cutler...

That was a Shanny thing. Elway took the same timeouts, at least through the 1st half of every game.

Griese, Plummer, and Cutler were all timeout machines b/c I think it was okay with Shanny if they took one when something didn’t look just right.

by super7 on May 14, 2009 8:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember raising

my eyebrow at some of Cutler’s timeouts, but until you mentioned it I didn’t think about it too much. But you’re right. Cutler seemed to take a gimme time-out once a half, early in the half.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on May 13, 2009 8:42 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

When was the last time we saw significant no-huddle?

Was it with in 2004-2005? I seem to recall that….

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on May 13, 2009 8:43 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

There are a few teams that run the no huddle during the game,

one that comes to mind is Peyton Manning. It can be an effective weapon for the offense, but it on the other hand (if 3 and out) can wear on your defense also. Teams that stay with T. O. P. (time of posession) usually have a better outcome in the game. Altitude has very little effect on players (slowwhiteguy stated) because of the breaks in between plays. When I moved to Colorado Springs I had very little problem with jogging, though, I found myself slowing some at first. Eventually I got used to it and it didn’t bother me (only the thunder storms). It works in the opposite way too (going from high altitude to low altitude). There may be a boost of energy for a while the there is a depletion of red blood cells (after about 2 weeks) that causes fatigue. 2 away games should be looked at very carefully concerning that, but generally the team isn’t gone that long. No huddle won’t help us on a continued basis…Ball control…13-3 Baby!!!

by bfree2bronc on May 13, 2009 9:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Pats and Colts run it from time to time...

The Jets ran in a few years ago in the midst of the Mangini v. Belichick feud and as I recall, the Jets kept it close when they had no business keeping it close.

by super7 on May 13, 2009 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW - great discussion...you guys are WICKED SMAHT

by super7 on May 13, 2009 10:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Nicely started, Super....

"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington

by Broncs Cheer on May 13, 2009 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

loved reading all the comments

thanks for starting this thread Super

Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.

by BShrout on May 14, 2009 12:13 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Sports Guy + Malcom Gladwell =

pure Awesomeness. My favorite sports writer and my favorite non-fiction writer combined to make a great article. ESPN has had a couple of good articles this week (none by Porkchop), one on Billups and the one with the Sports Guy and Gladwell.

To the point of a no huddle. While it may not matter to finally tuned athletes I am not convinced that most D-Line men are finally tuned machines. Anaerobic exercises like what is mainly used in football, short bursts, may not be as effective as they may be in a 10k, but I would think psychologically it could wreak some havoc. Wouldn’t recovery time take a bit longer as well?

by D-fence on May 14, 2009 12:30 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

OK

I don’t know who’s doing the NE write up, but hopefully they might be able to find some info on how often Brady vs Cassle ran the NoHUddle. As my memory serves (and I didn’t follow the Pats so this is pretty rough thinking) they ran the no huddle often with Moss deep and mighty might crossing and Gaffey running intermediate routes. But with Cassell they didn’t do this until the second half of the season until McKid thought he was comfortable enough with running the O in live fire. As was mentioned, we do have the O for it although Moss could out sprint Marshall. Anyone know better or disagree with my memory of their 3 WR sets. Also alot of check downs to Faulk as I"m thinking about it. Trying to see if the Def’s slower LB’s ended up on Welker or Faulk and checking to him with the safety rolling deep to Moss?

sbhchawk

by sbhchawk on May 14, 2009 8:03 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

It's already been posted.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/5/12/872747/a-very-premature-evaluation-of-the

by broncointheville on May 14, 2009 8:09 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I posted it, I'll see if I can find that info out

Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and hope you come down somewhere between the two.

by BShrout on May 14, 2009 8:56 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pros and cons

I like the idea of a no huddle more than a pure hurry up. The no huddle allows the play calls to be made at the line of scrimmage and limits the defense’s ability to substitute personnel, which could help fatigue the opposition.
My concern would be time of possession. It seems critical that the offense help the defense by sustaining drives that ultimately lead to points (crazy concept I know).

by 5280FT on May 14, 2009 8:38 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs