Your 2009 Denver Bronco Starting Line Up v2.0

Will you join me in Denver July 24 thru Aug 2 to attend training camp? I would really like to evaluate these guys in camp.

or was that your prediction?

The only thing I disagree with is for some reason I think Moss is going to find a place in either Nolan’s defense or on special teams. There is no logic for this feeling I have—so I can’t defend it—its just a gut feeling.

I’m with Mike on Moss. I believe he makes the team.

The only change I could see at the moment is Fields over Thomas at NT in the 3-4. I believe Nolan brought him in knowing what he’s capable of there. The would probably move Thomas out to battle with Powell. When I see the front seven down on paper, I can see why the Broncos weren’t so focused on drafting a DT early. I also think Baker moves into the starting lineup after the bye week.

I really like thinking about this as the months pass. Maybe at some point you’ll include a practice squad.

I only have a couple of thoughts regarding the roster as you have it laid out. First, I think Josh Bell may beat out JMFW. I like Jack, but I thought Josh was more consistent last year. Second, with all of the versatility on the OL, we may go with 9 OL and keep an extra back. I’m hoping Branson is impressive enough to fill this slot as a TE/FB.

Mike, to bring creditablity to your article, you may want to spell the players names right. It is Elvis Dumervil and Robert Ayers and Darrel Reid.

IMO Jarvis Moss also may not make the 53. And I really would hate to lose Josh Bell and Josh Barrett. But now that the organization has real talent evaluators your guess work is about as good as any.

If you put Chris Baker on the PS he is claimed within minutes. Bad idea. IMO Chris Baker becomes one of the 4-5 rotaing DL. I think Coach Nunnely takes his best 4-5 DT and rotates them on the 3 man front. Baker, Powell, Thomas, Pedescleaux, Fields. Peterson would make 6. That leaves Askew, McBean, Clemons, and Parker out of a job.

Mike, remember there are only 53 slots. You have 26 offense and 26 defense PLUS 3 ST. It is tough huh.

You gotta love what McJedi is doing here folks, and while I agree for the most part with v 2.0 I can almost assure you that we’re going to be pleasantly surprised. Here’s some longshots that will be interesting to watch.
RB – Don’t be too surprised if D. Walker or the Train slip past Buckhalter. Injuries will ultimately come into play with this group but won’t it be nice to have quality depth! (Sleeper pick: Walker)
WR- I can see Chad Jackson and Nate Swift competing with Mckinley and Gaffney. Jackson knows the system at NE and Swift runs precise routes and has glue fingers. (Sleeper pick: Swift)
TE- Branson brings a lot of flexibility to the Jedi system and could be trouble for Putzier if he can block.
OL- I’m guessing they’ll keep 9 not 10 here with Polumbus,Gorin, Olson and Schleuter fighting for 3 spots loser goes to the PS. (sleeper pick: Gorin)
CB & Safeties – Bell pushes JW and Barrett pushes Bruton. By midseason Mcbath and Phonse are starters. Sleeper: Mcbath-bigger ,faster better ball-hawk than Hill (However both are better than anyone from last year)
LB- Schweiger, Haggan and Robinson pressure the Boss and Griesen – Sleeper: Schweiger -Big fast and nasty, starter at USC before transfer.
DL – Askew, Davis, Parker, Mcbean and Moss will push everyone in this group to play their best or go home. Sleeper: Davis -You gotta love the toughness and discipline this kid brings! Hey, it’s all speculation but when was the last time we had this kind of depth to speculate about? Great post and rec’d Mike.

I think that the relationship between Hill and Goodman will keep A. Smith as the nickel back for a while yet. Goodman seems to be peaking in terms of ability and if Hill starts – which is yet to be determined – Goodman works very well with him. It wasn’t an accident that Josh pulled them both from Miami.

I’m always reluctant to assume that rookies will be ready to play right away – many are benefiting from some time to learn. However – Powell is an interesting thought at NT since he’s up to over 315. The battle with Thomas, Fields and Powell should be great for the team. Since we’re talking 3 starters in the 3-4, the idea that we are lacking DL players should be questioned. Thomas, Fields and Powell/Baker/Clemons/Peterson, we have a lot of options and some good depth. Coach McD has also been clear that he wants for Ayers to gain muscle and look at starting at DE in the 3-4. Would see Davis making the squad if he’s heathy – a TC injury would end his time with the Broncos.

The other thing that has struck me the most this past week was the DenverBroncos.com statement that we are going with a penetrating defense. That was Nolan’s preference in both previous teams – mostly a one gap system that emphasizes penetration. Of course, saying anything about the D without noting that it will be different week to week in certain respects (4-3 and 3-4 hybrid formations) would be lacking.

So you don’t believe Lee Robinson will make the cut?

Your second sentence doesn’t refer to “tid-bits”, as is the common term. I’d be inerested to see these “tit-bits” you refer to.

: )

I love posts that speculate on starters and give the reasoning behind the conclusions.

I imagine that Guru will be giving his annual take on who will make the cuts. I can’t wait for that!

Some comments —

OL numbers should be kept down. Teams don’t like to keep more than they absolutely need. I think a safe target number is 8. Quality may lead to keeping more, maybe 9, but keeping this number down allows them to keep more elsewhere.

It’s going to be interesting how backup OT works out, but I wouldn’t expect more than one. Olsen has the ability to swing outside, which was undoubtedly part of the reason he was drafted. This reduces the need to keep more backup, but I also don’t think they’ll want to rely on him this soon, so this is more depth for the future.

I don’t know who wins out between Polumbus and Gorin. And the amount of UDFAS says they want bring in some competition for the backup spot. On the other hand, the fact that they haven’t brought in more quality says (perhaps) that they’re content with the level of quality already at backup OT.

Re: the RBs and WRs. This may sound strange but I look at the ballhandlers as a group. It’s just my own heuristic for analyzing numbers, though. 10 total WRs and RBs is probably too few. I look for 11 as the baseline. If this were last year, I would say 6 total RBs (some are inactive but it gives meaningful depth with which to weather attrition). However, this is this year, meaning that multiple WR sets may require 6 WRs. What’s interesting about WR number is the composition of the WR corps. Ideally, we might like to add ‘aspects," such as speed or possession WR ability. I don’t know that ‘that’ will be necessary. I don’t know that it won’t. Lets just say that there’s a preponderance of slot types who share characteristics and the ability to provide something different may give us more dimension on offense (if only we had that, and we may not).

Dimension at RB is important. I like to see enough depth to fill both the speed and power back dimensions. We clearly have speed filled, especially with Moreno added to Buckhalter and Arrington, so power is a little more of an issue. Hillis fills in a pinch, but we need to have him for the FB position. I do think there’s some tension between Torain and Jordan for the last spot. 5 may be the total number of RBs so it’s going to be tough to keep them both. Jordan is actually a little better than people want to give him credit for, as an ex-Raider, but this is one of the tough cuts we may have to make.

Some heuristics — I like to use 7 DL, 9 LBs, 9 DBs. My informal looks around the league (last year) tell me that LB numbers for 3-4 teams are often high. 10 LBs and 6 DLs may make more sense. Our DE/OLBs will fill in on the DL so it’s a somewhat fuzzy number.

I like the 9 number for the DBs and the numbers at CB may expand to 5 this year. Dominique Johnson (I’ll use D.J. sometimes for him) and Carter provide some interesting possibilities. KR may be filled through added depth at CB, but Johnson also presents a possibility for a S/CB hybrid type, which is a coming trend. I guess that coverage responsibilities on big receivers (big TEs, etc.) make this function important. I don’t know if Johnson is the person to fill that duty but his physical metrics raise the possibility.

High numbers at the OLB/DE slot may be necessary to provide for different functions. I won’t go into it — because I’m not an X and O guy — but their should be some specialists who will be lumped together under one position. The point is — look for function rather then position, because they’ll be used differently.

I wanted to show last year’s roster numbers, as best as I can reconstruct them.

2008 Denver Broncos Roster

Some of these positions changed numbers during the 1st week, which made the official 53 man roster somewhat moot. I’ve reconstructed this list partly from memory for the purpose of comparison. Don’t rely on it for other purposes.

I recall that the roster was unbalanced, with a 27/23 split, but Larsen played FB so it was actually 26/24. And that was quickly changed with cuts coming even before the season’s first game. The point is that roster numbers were fluid so there’s little point in talking about ‘official’ number. I’d prefer to see the composition as it changed over time, but I don’t have those records.

Some of the moves allowed the Broncos to get players on the roster. For instance, Torain was on the 53 man squad and put on IR.

Powell spend the season on the PUP, which rules allowed.

The numbers should add up to 50, with 3 specialists, but the source I’m using was a little off. Players such as Lowry were not on the original roster, but came in soon after that in a flurry of roster moves that continued through the season.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

SPECIALISTS = 3

1 Brett Kern P 6-3 205

5 Matt Prater K 5-10 180

83 Mike Leach TE 6-2 240

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QUARTERBACKS = 2

6 Jay Cutler QB 6-3 233 04-29-1983 3 Vanderbilt

11 Patrick Ramsey QB 6-3 225 02-14-1979 7 Tulane

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WR = 5

14 Brandon Stokley WR 5-11 192

19 x-Edell Shepherd WR 6-1 175

19 Eddie Royal WR 5-10 182 05-21-1986 0 Virginia Tech

82 Darrell Jackson WR 5-11 210

85 Keary Colbert WR 6-1 205 05-21-1982 5 USC

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

TE = 3

81 Nate Jackson TE 6-3 235 06-04-1979 6 Menlo

88 Tony Scheffler TE 6-5 250 02-15-1983 3 Western Michigan

89 Daniel Graham TE 6-3 257 11-16-1978 7 Colorado

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RB = 5 (5 + Larsen)

23 Andre Hall RB 5-10 212

35 Selvin Young RB 5-11 215

28 Michael Pittman RB 6-0 225

37 x-Cecil Sapp RB 5-11 229 (cut)

38 x-Anthony Alridge RB 5-9 185

42 Ryan Torain RB 6-1 225

48 Peyton Hillis RB 6-2 250

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OL = 10[8 after cut and Nalen move]

50 Ben Hamilton G 6-4 290

62 Casey Wiegmann C 6-2 285

64 Erik Pears T 6-8 305

65 Dylan Gandy G 6-3 290 (cut in 1st week)

66 Tom Nalen C 6-3 286 [placed on IR]

67 Kory Lichtensteiger C 6-3 295

73 Chris Kuper G 6-4 302

74 Ryan Harris T 6-5 300

76 Tyler Polumbus T 6-8 310

78 Ryan Clady T 6-6 325

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

OFFENSE = 24(?-w/ Larsen))

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DB = 8 [*7 after cut]

20 Marlon McCree S 5-11 202 03-17-1977

21 Hamza Abdullah S 6-2 216 (cut in 1st week)

24 Champ Bailey CB 6-0 192

26 Jack Williams CB 5-9 186

32 Dre’ Bly CB 5-10 185

33 Marquand Manuel S 6-0 213

37 Calvin Lowry S 5-11 200

41 Karl Paymah CB 6-0 195

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

LB = 8 (7 minus Larsen)

46 Spencer Larsen RB [*LB], 6-2 240

===

51 Jamie Winborn LB 5-11 230

52 Louis Green LB 6-3 237

53 Niko Koutouvides LB 6-2 238

55 D.J. Williams LB 6-1 242

58 Nate Webster LB 6-0 232

59 Wesley Woodyard LB 6-1 212

97 Boss Bailey LB 6-3 235

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

DL = 11 [10 after cut]

== Alvin McKinley (cut in 1st week)

79 Marcus Thomas DT 6-3 305

63 Dewayne Robertson DT 6-1 317

90 Kenny Peterson DT 6-3 300

93 Nic Clemons DT 6-6 300

95 Josh Shaw DT 6-2 290

//////———————//////

91 Ebenezer Ekuban DE 6-4 275

94 Jarvis Moss DE 6-6 265

92 Elvis Dumervil DE 5-11 260

96 Tim Crowder DE 6-4 275

60 John Engelberger DE 6-4 260

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

DEFENSE = 26 (*minus Larsen, a FB)

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Final Round of cuts:

P.J. Alexander, Josh Barrett, Jordan Beck, Larry Birdine, Paul Carrington, Wale Dada, Mitch Erickson, Dylan Gandy, Darrell Hackney, Steven Harris, Glenn Martinez, Marquay McDaniel, Chad Mustard, Sam Paulescu, Tyrone Poole, Clifford Russell and Vickiel Vaughn.

x-Injured reserve

I can’t help but wonder how Boss Bailey fits into the Broncos’ long-term plans.

Many of the players Josh brought in share a common trait: Flexibility. McDaniels said he wants “football players,” which implies he’s looking for players that can stay on the field in a variety of situations. Consider how he described Knowshon Moreno after the draft; I’ll paraphrase, but he said Moreno could stay on the field for all three downs. I thought that was an interesting way of evaluating players, one that suggests he’s unwilling to pay up for a player who has to come off the field frequently.

I haven’t seen Boss play much, but my limited understanding is that he’s best suited as an OLB in a 4-3 alignment. I have a difficult time envisioning him being successful as a 3-4 OLB or as a 4-3 DE. And I don’t see him succeeding as an ILB in the 3-4 either. I think he’s a specialist and I’m not sure Josh has much patience for specialists.

If I’m right and the Broncos get rid of him, how would Champ feel about that? I’ve heard some chatter that Champ might be available for the right price (and by “chatter” I mean talk-show speculation).

When Shanahan signed Boss, I remember wondering what would happen if he didn’t work out. Would Champ stay professional? Or would he divide the locker room?

Regardless, I think Boss might be gone.