Horse Tracks 5/24/09
by Douglas A. Lee on May 24, 2009 6:48 AM MDT
in Horse Tracks
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DB - Mike Rice shares the transcript from an excellent interview with Robert Ayers from the day of his introductory presser. Ayers talks about his goals, his emotions on draft day, and his physical style of play.
DB - TE Richard Quinn had already graduated in December, but he attended UNC's commencement anyway, this time wearing his Broncos draft jersey.
WP - Doug Farrar looks at the Broncos' draft; he offers the usual complaints about the Moreno pick but then sort of explains it. Strange. Farrar thinks the Ayers choice is a risk/reward pick.
CST - It's now becoming accepted as fact since Cutler said it; he turned Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal into star receivers. Okay, sure - they probably had nothing to do with it because they weren't first-round draft picks, as if those usually work out for wide receivers...
KCS - Adam Teicher thinks the Chefs' offense is loaded with question marks, aside from QB Matt Cassel.
KCS - Mike Vrabel has still not shown up with the Chefs, but it sounds like an excused absence.
SFG - David White on JaMarcus the Hutt's fat/lazy/cocky image.
NFP - Dolphins LT Jake Long has already gotten a huge raise; not sure if it was related to incentives or the salary cap.
Y! - The NFL is investigating the Skins' signing of DT Albert Haynesworth for blatantly obvious possible tampering.
NFL - Thomas George profiles Jets OC Brian Schottenheimer.
SI - Ross Tucker thinks James Harrison made a fool of himself when he explained why he wasn't accepting President Obama's White House invitation.
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Not to take anything from cutler, he is a Legend in his own mind--Mornin nyc, Thanks for Horse Tracks...
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
Cutler Bashing
People keep saying that they don’t want to hear about Cutler any more. They want Bronco sites to be more positive.
There remains a substantial numbers of Bronco fans who think Cutler has talent but who have accepted the trade and want to move beyond the controversy.
If this site wants to be perceived as more than cheerleading for the new Bronco regime, it would be helpful if the commentators avoided making more snide remarks about Jay Cutler. It just irritates those of us who think the new coach bungled the deal, got rid of an outstanding QB, and continues an unnecessary controversy.
It’s unfortunate, because there is some good analysis which takes place on this site. When you keep up this type of bashing, it seems like one of the cable news channels which has an obvious bent and you discredit your own work.
Just my opinion, obviously.
by Baltimore Bronco on May 24, 2009 7:48 AM MDT reply actions
Excellent Comment
I agree with every view stated by Baltimore Bronco. In the last week, there’s been a focus on Cultler: parsing his every word and lots of negative commentary and snide remarks toward Jay. MHR’s reputation is hurt by this behavior. I love the level-headed, deep, thoughtful analysis on this site. That is what makes it special. If I want a gossip column, I have a dozen choices. Please keep MHR special.
by MichaelCushman on May 24, 2009 8:08 AM MDT up reply actions
I didn't find the statement saying cutler made BMarsh and Royal stars.
If someone could link it here it would be appreciated. Either one of you above have to understand the situation as it presents itself especially when such a huge trade involving our QB warants such discussion. I don’t see constructive criticism a bad thing in fact one could learn from all this talk.
It kind of sticks out.
It’s the 4th paragraph.
Now it’s up to Cutler to find a Brandon Marshall and an Eddie Royal in the bunch, young receivers who exploded instantly with him in Denver.
Using that logic Rod Smith was nothing until Brian Griese came to Denver.
I don't find that comment against BMarsh or Royal
if anything it sounded like a compliment, especially when cutler needs to find a couple like them in the bunch. That’s telling me he needs to find the same quality of talent in the bunch he has compared to BMarsh and Royal. cutler knew what he had in denver as well as he knew what he had in Chicago. jay will do fine up there when ittttttttttsssss coooooooolllllllddd!!! Yeah, he will be fine. 13-3 Baby!!!
It would be abnormal to never bring up Culter on a Broncos fan blog
And to suggest that we not voice our opinion (whether positive or negative) is unrealistic.
Hop on over to Acme Packing Co., the SB blog for the Packers. They still talk about and follow all the Favre news – because the divorce cut so deep through that fan base. It’s normal and natural to continue to discuss it. Just as we will continue to discuss Cutler – especially if he suggests that Brandon and Eddie were good because he made them good.
“You’re worried about our wide receivers a little bit? Let me put you at ease,” Cutler said, before explaining how the Broncos’ Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal were relative unknowns before their arrival in Denver.
Those guys are still on our team, and another team’s quarterback just dissed them. We are allowed to hate on that. This isn’t going away – nor should it be expected to – particularly throughout the season as the MSM will inevitably compare our season to the Bears, and Jay to Kyle.
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on May 24, 2009 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions
i don't see the quotes...
sounds paraphrased …besides, it’s a true statement, they were! That isn’t to say that they wouldn’t be great without ever having played with Jay. I reckon he helped them and they him…
Hopefully they can make Kyle or Simms look so good! I know our running game will be improved so that’ll help em too, right?
BTW If Jay really does start dissing the guys he played with, I’ll hate on him too. Funny thing is BM DID run his mouth, I guess it’s ok if he’s on our team, right?
by Whidbey Bronco on May 24, 2009 6:51 PM MDT up reply actions
MHR is SPECIAL, because their are a varity of opinions, including Mine. If I said something that is'nt True---please respond!!!
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
thank you BB!
This is about the only place where that article could be turned into something negative. Funny how so many folks outside of MHR call to Jays TEAMWORK as well as his skills!
But folks like myself are considered the ‘haters’… We’re supposed to move on and support the new regime, hoping for the best and forgetting the rookie mistakes but we keep getting the “snide remarks” and aren’t expected to respond…
by Whidbey Bronco on May 24, 2009 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions
Excellent--Couldn't agree more
Time will tell how good Cutler is. But he is a Bear QB, not a Bronco. Well need to move on. Also, the title of the article is extremely misleading. MHR needs to moninter this more closely. Nowhere in the article does Cutler take credit for making Marsh and Royal into great receivers. This article was not constructive criticism, it was more MSM attempt to creat a headline with no substance behind it in the article.
by mauibroncofan on May 24, 2009 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
How is the title misleading?
Cutler claimed he made Marshall and Royal stars. The CST apparently agrees.
Now it’s up to Cutler to find a Brandon Marshall and an Eddie Royal in the bunch, young receivers who exploded instantly with him in Denver.
So the title which states
It’s now becoming accepted as fact since Cutler said it; he turned Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal into star receivers.is in fact accurate.
I actually took
NYC’s phrasing as a swipe at the Chicago media rather than Jay. Jay said what he said. The media are the one’s taking it as fact.
Hey BB...
Thats cool, but those “snide” comments about Cutler are opinions too.
Lets not get too sensitive over this.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
Perspective
I think that a person’s perpective on this depends on where they come down on the whole trade situation. In a vacuum, with nothing but talent and ability considered, I didn’t want Jay going anywhere. Not to rehash the whole thing, but it became clear that he wasn’t going to be compatible with the McDaniels team-first program. You know that by the fact that he insisted on bringing his agent into every discussion. I am a strong believer that your program has to trump any player, and that the whole team needs to know that, or you’ll have big chemistry problems. If McDaniels let Cutler get away with his power play, he would have been de-legitimized before he ever coached a single practice. The trade had to happen, in my opinion, despite the fact that Cutler is the most talented young QB in the NFL.
Now, I am the guy who was among the first to criticize the new regime for screwing up. I also questioned Pat Bowlen in the wake of the firing of the Goodmans. I am not a down-the-line company man, by any means, and you’ll find that none of the rest of the staff particularly are either. We support the team, and we hope that the management group is making the right decisions, but when we differ with them, we say it.
As for the criticism of Jay Cutler, it’s not reasonable to suggest that he should get a pass. This is a guy who forced his way out of town, and it’s reasonable for Broncos fans to feel some anger about that. When he makes asinine/arrogant comments (like he did on several occasions in Denver, really) it is OK to point them out as being what they are.
I am a Broncos fan, as is everybody who writes for this site. My independent feelings as a fan are no less legitimate than those of BB or Michael above, or anybody else who may disagree with me. This strikes me as a little bit interesting, because it’s almost as if we’re being viewed as analogous to the MSM, when we’re asked not to cheapen the site. When I speak, or NYC speaks, it’s for ourselves, with a parallell realization that we speak for the site, as well. I remind everybody that MHR is a place where a variety of opinions are allowed to coexist peacefully, and that differences of opinion happen frequently among the staff. Even when we all generally agree, that doesn’t marginalize the opinions of people who disagree. I think saying “I respectfully disagree” rather than “you’re cheapening the site” is more appropriate. Just my two cents.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on May 24, 2009 8:36 AM MDT reply actions 10 recs
Ted I have a question. Can we get the video of the play when Hillis got injured?
I may be wrong but it seems to me Hillis was hung out to dry on the play. Can we get the link to the video that shows the pass and the injury? Thanks
He was absolutely hung out to dry
It was a high pass that was thown too hard. I will see about finding the video.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on May 24, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
Video
See video here
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on May 24, 2009 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
cutler back peddling threw off balance,
the pass was under thrown. Hillis had to reach back for it. Hillis could have sustained a neck injury as well if it wasn’t for the defenders foot cushioning the blow. If Hillis doesn’t sacrifice his body for that catch, it could have been #19 int. Hmmm. Thanks Ted
by bfree2bronc on May 24, 2009 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Respectful Disagreement versus Cheapening the Site
I did not use the words cheapening the site, and have often written in the past that I respectfully disagree, but the comment about Cutler in this morning’s article seemed totally gratuitous and designed to inflame partisan viewpoints. My question is, now that some healing has come from some people trying to be objective about this team despite disliking certain moves, why keep inflaming the passions?
Nothing, absolutely nothing, has divided Bronco Nation like this controversy. Let’s let Jay Cutler move on and play QB for the Bears and lets try to look forward to good things with our team.
My point was that MHR does so much, so well, that why does it need to persist so much in pushing this editorial bent against Cutler… it does seem like those biased cable stations on both sides which lose my attention because of rehashing old viewpoints. Sure, report Cutler news, but why continually demonize his every word? I am trying real hard to call the new coach by his real name, Josh McDaniels, and to not reflexively rip some of the moves he makes. If we want to heal and encourage some Cutler supporters to come back to the fold and accept McDaniels, it does not help to see these comments pop up continually.
Again, just stating my views… it is your website and you can run it the way you want.
by Baltimore Bronco on May 24, 2009 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I get what you're saying and I respect your viewpoint
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on May 24, 2009 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions
I will refer to the comment you made BB about the name calling.
Thank you for not calling our coach by any name other than his own. To me people that do such are just like the ones who call the Broncos the donkeys or what ever. Coach McDaniels is part of the Denver Broncos organization and when names are used against him or any other part of the team its a slight toward who we are and what we believe in. I appeciate that. 13-3 Baby!!!
by bfree2bronc on May 24, 2009 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions
It appears to me that it was my comment that inflamed a response from you, BB and michael, -- for that I am sorry. I guess
I did’nt realize the wounds on cutler went that deep.
I have been a Denver Bronco Fan since 1970—have always felt, no player or coach is above the Organization.
just my opinion.
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
Thanks for the thoughtfulness
UB3
Not true for me. I wasn’t responding to your post. As you see by a thread down below, I was referring to the description of the CST article in Horse Tracks.
The comment area is for comments. Comment away all you like UB3. Thanks for the nice note above. And you are right, there’s no need to apologize (because it wasn’t about you and you are entitled to your views.)
And I agree with you, no player is above the organization. Jay took a position that created a showdown. Too bad he couldn’t have a more open minded about Shanahan’s firing and a new coach and philosophy.
I also enjoyed watching Cutler play. He made every game exciting. I’m sure he’ll be the same in Chicago. I also like Josh McDainiels. I’m really impressed with the changes in the team. I’m looking forward to the season. I think MSM will be singing his praises at the end of 2009.
warmly, Michael
by MichaelCushman on May 24, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Thank you---Go Broncos
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
You cool man. I was just talking about the name calling ie McDumb, etc.
I don’t like name calling whatsoever, and when I refer to jay or most other players I don’t capitolize their name. But I won’t call them names. Thanks UB3
Your Welcome----I see you ride too... Thats what I'm gonna do next weekend,
go for a little scoot ride!
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
Nothing like the wind in your hair---bugs in your teeth, Reality six inches under your feet--at 70 mph! ha ha
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
you're right
the wounds do run deep
&
no player or coach is bigger than the Broncos!!
Go Broncos!
by Whidbey Bronco on May 24, 2009 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Not to worry!
I was just stating that for me it is best not to revisit the Cutler issue because it displeases me and continues to divide our fan base. I want to believe in the Broncos even if I think Josh McDaniels has taken much too brash an approach with the assets of our team…. I do like some of the selections of the draft and the free agent pickups, so I am trying to be positive.
Every negative Cutler comment makes me see red. Sure he did things wrong, but he fought like a warrior for us as well. It is now over. I need to move on. So, my comment was more for me than for anyone else… I just cannot read MHR, get displeased and then move on.
I want to read about who is here now and how they intend to put the puzzle together this year, especially the defensive front 7… which was the broken part.
I wish Mike Nolan the best, he has had a tough couple of years. He is part of the Bronco past, and knows its legacy.
I do look forward to our legacy season.
by Baltimore Bronco on May 25, 2009 6:32 AM MDT up reply actions
It was like McDaniels saw a puzzle that had a few pieces missing,
he looked at that puzzle and probably said…hmm, a piece in the wrong place here, a piece in the wrong place there. So he began to dismantle this puzzle that had a few pieces in that were wrong. Then he found these other pieces here and there and started putting the pieces together and the picture becomes a totally different one from before. Is the picture better? Only time will tell the real story. I certain hope so.
that ever happen to you?
you walk by a puzzle and notice that someone mashed some key peices together, but they don’t actually fit? I’m like Monk in a way (the Tony Shaloub Monk): if I see something like that I am done for. I have to spend every moment trying to correct it before I belong to me again.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 26, 2009 2:36 AM MDT up reply actions
consider this, Baltimore
NYC doesn’t spend a great deal of time creating the comments that go with the article (I suspect). Most of his time is spent actually finding and reading the articles, and the comments are just his quick impressions.
It is doubtful that a lot of editorial weight should be given to the actual blurbs themselves, and a lot of the burden of interpreting them rests on the reader, and their own thoughts on the article itself.
In other words, disagreement or agreement with the content of the article in the comments is probably a worthwhile pursuit, while disagreement with NYC’s blurbs is probably not worth the effort.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 24, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions
You are right. As you note above, I am just trying to get beyond the Cutler controversy and it has not been easy for me.
Thanks for your comment.
by Baltimore Bronco on May 25, 2009 6:34 AM MDT up reply actions
thank you...
you’ve provided some valuable feedback here, and I know that I for one will note the mixed company at hand when discussing Cutler.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 26, 2009 2:38 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree with you there.
I think NYC was just giving his slanted opinion. If I had to do Horse Tracks every day I would try to spice them up too by adding my own remarks and slant on the stories. I don’t think people realize how much effort and work NYC puts into the Horse Tracks each and every day. The guy is reliable as hell!
I may not agree with his slant on various stories, but he has every right to give them since he is doing all the work to bring me all of these links. Many of which I would never have found! Agree or disagree with him, I appreciate the link nonetheless!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
One option
If someone has a different perspective, may I suggest that they post an article? I can’t really be expected to write from a perspective that I don’t have or agree with, and neither can you. Please – I’d love to see more contributions from folks of differing perspectives. As Broncoman’s post on the Washington Redskins has shown, people here take a lot of pride in debating, but the debate can and should avoid name calling and personal attacks. Please enrich the perspectives by adding a well written, well thought-out post on your perspective.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
Great point Doc
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on May 24, 2009 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Are you responding to me Doc?
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
I think it is a general comment
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 24, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I guess we're all a little sensitive today----atleast I am,
I did’nt get to go anywhere this weekend, and I’ve made myself grouchy!!!
Atleast I got my Horse Track Fix—-Thanks again nyc…
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
Nope, sure wasn't ;-)
It was a general comment. Folks with different perspectives enrich the conversation
Hillis/Moreno in '09
Great recievers...
often make QBs look better and improve their stats with good adjustments to the ball, getting seperation and running consistent routes when and where they should.
Great QBs on the other hand, seldom can make poor recievers into good ones, especially those who don’t get seperation or have questionable hands.
The article is less criticism of Cutler and what he said than it is of the media and what they assume.
I think it is a safe assumption, for example, that Stallworth and Swan did more for Terry Bradshaw, than Terry Bradshaw did for them. At least it is a very debatable point.
But, all that aside, Cutler is now in the middle of a large media market and everything he says or does will be far bigger news than it was here. I don’t see him or the issue going away anytime soon as much as I would like for it to.
"Now we have them where we want them"
-Kieth Bishop - On the Denver 2 yard line, Cleveland Ohio, 1987
The exception
Elway made the 3 Amigos look good. What happened to the 3 Amigos when they left the Broncos?
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
Elway won games..
witht he 3 amigos. But look at his completion percentage throwing to them and then look at the offensive production.
If Elway would have had Stallworth and Swan, he would have won more games and had fantastic numbers to go along with them.
I’m not saying great QBs cannot play without great recievers, they obviously can, but having great recievers makes ANY QB just that much better.
"Now we have them where we want them"
-Kieth Bishop - On the Denver 2 yard line, Cleveland Ohio, 1987
yep, it's a two way street
Actually a three way street. Look what happened when Elway had Rod, Ed, Shannon AND Shanahan! …hell, an O-line & RB too! Every part enhances the other in TEAM right?
I’d have loved to see Cutler, our new, great receivers & our new, great O-line …have some years together.
Wish in one hand & shit in the other… which one fills up 1st?
We still have the receivers and the O-line… now we have another promising RB and likely an improving defense. QB? Hopefully our new coach lives up to his billing and finds a serviceable QB…
by Whidbey Bronco on May 24, 2009 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
James Harrison
He not make a fool of himself by not going to the White House, he was a fool long before that!
Jay Cutler made the Broncos receivers who they were.
Yeah. Totally. I was skeptical at first, but then I read that article and the comments that followed it. After all, who can argue with these pearls of wisdom:
Jay Cutler will take us to the Supper Bowl THIS YEAR! NOTE MY WORDS! I live in Denver and I watch the donkeys… Their resievers are a joke! They are nothing with out Cutler.
Royal, Marshall and Stokly are all TERRIBLE rout runners. (Stokly is the most overated slot resiever there is. Just cause Payton was being nice when he said Stokly was the best slot in the NFL every one thinks it’s true).
Cutler made those resievers pro-bowl players. Watch them some time. They cant run a rout to save there life. Really! I watched most of there last year… almost every interseption Cutler threw was cause the resiever ran the wrong rout.
If the donkeys would have had better reseivers, they would have won 11 games last year and prolly been in the playoffs and won out. I’m stoked to see whhat Cutler can do with Hester (we already seen what he can do with Bennett)
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
I guess your right...LMAO...
Doc: Why Ike, what ever do you mean? I know, lets have a s*p*e*l*l*i*n*g* contest! Tombstone.
by bfree2bronc on May 24, 2009 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh. Johnny, I apologize; I forgot you were there. You may go now.
Kilmer’s best role! Love that flick!
"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels
by Colorado_Kitten on May 24, 2009 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Kilmer made that movie
I also like the scene, early on, when doc has been winning and the loser jumps up and looks about to challenge Doc. He says, Hell Doc, you’re so drunk you’re seeing double. Doc pulls both his guns and says, I have two guns, one for each of you.
Growing older is not for sissies. Jack Palance
Wow.
here that guys? If we had better resievers we prolly woulda won the cuperbole
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
LOL.
Was that written by Horvil Tiki’s evil twin? That real foul, guy. CustperBowl is foul degenrate toad.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Cool that they let patients
at Illinois State Mental Hospital post comments on the web, gives their brains more of a workout.
I love the guy who fancies himself a scout or something, commenting on the route-running abilities of Broncos WRs. Royal even in his rookie year was said by multiple scouts to have very advanced route-running abilities, that other rookies and even veterans could learn something from him. Stokley is a great route-runner, too. It’s really not even worth responding to, though it is very tempting to post a response on that site. The second comment is totally bogus, too. “I watched most of there [sic] last year” — uh, really? Hard to tell. Yep, all of Cutler’s picks were the receivers fault. Thanks for playing, coach!
Did anyone here post a comment there?
Pearls of wisdom
Papi, after reading your post I registered at the Sun-Times and penned this response to the ignorant doofus who wrote (if you can call it that) those pearls of wisdom:
dembearz,
resievers = receivers
Stokly = Stokley
Payton = Peyton
rout = route
regress = digress (but maybe not in this case)
You did spell “terrible” right but used it only to prove you haven’t a clue. Stokley is probably not the best slot man in the league but he is a very good route runner. As for Royal, he is known more than anything else for his brilliant route running. Cutler on a number of occasions badly overthrew or underthrew Royal. He’s accurate on long balls when he throws a line drive, but not when he puts air under the ball. Being a homer is understandable, but it doesn’t have to be coupled with such stunning ignorance. The Broncos will have better quarterbacking this year than the bares, plus we have those draft choices you gave us. Thanks, bares.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
a testy vulcan
not something I would wish to encounter…
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 26, 2009 2:39 AM MDT up reply actions
The WP piece clinches the argument that the secondary was worse than the line
According to Football Outsiders, the Broncos’ D-Line ranked #23 last year (I won’t get into their metrics). When I dug around, I found that the DBs were something like 25th against #2 receivers, 31st against tight ends and third WRs, and that a lot of the rush yards against the team seemed to come in BIG bunches — i.e., someobdy beating the line, then watching Nate Webster run by him and shaking off the safety-of-the-week.
I continue to believe that targeting the secondary in free agency and the draft was both a value-maximization strategy AND a win-now maneuver. I understand that we all want to be sophisticated fans and demonstrate our understanding and appreciation of line play. And good line play certainly has a huge impact on the secondary. But I really think that Nate Webster and the secondary were that bad. I continue to be puzzled by the fact that people talk about this team as if they didn’t address the weakest links on their defense. They did.
You are absolutely right...bad, very bad.
And yes they did and the MSM really don’t or won’t see the big picture. The defensive line was not bad, they were terrible. They couldn’t stop Forrest Gump IMO. I like the statement (even though harsh) Todd Haley said to Brian Waters in the hallway at Chiefs training center, “I could get 22 guys off the street that could play that well” referring to KC’s defense last year. And, yes McDaniels did address the need on defense by doing an overhaul. He brought in veteran players who have succeeded and who have leadership qualities. The problem with all the transactions that have occured and the new schemes (going to 3-4 from the 4-3) on defense is, will the players gel as a team and perform to their optimum potential. This we’ll have to see. Thanks for the gracious comments Cb.
by bfree2bronc on May 24, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, they certainly can't gel less than they did last season.
That’s another thing I don’t get about media criticism. Somehow switching to a 3-4 is supposed to create some difficult chaos to overcome. Based on what we saw last year and what the players had to say about their experiences when the spoke, it seems like chaos and uncertainty was the watchword. Even if the 3-4 is an utter mystery to these players (which I doubt), they’re still starting at about the same place they finished last season.
True almost. We could be 32nd...yikes, that would hurt.
The transformation to 3-4 is a little different in the backpeddling and cover. The players we have IMO can and will make that transform and will succeed. I believe our defense can be a top 15 this year. Yep, I said it and have a 12 pack of Bud to back it up. Like the wording? For me of course…
by bfree2bronc on May 24, 2009 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Certainly.
Great stuff. I couldn’t agree more. I had this idea in my head, too, but you put it on MHR much better than I could have.
Thank you for posting.
by broncointheville on May 25, 2009 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions
I put Cutler's comment in the same category...
… as his arm vs. Elway. You can pretty much read into that what you want. I was an unthinking response to a question based on what the young guy had seen on film or TV. This one? Well, maybe he actually listened to the criticism here that he needed to be more positive and encouraging for the team…. I may be giving too much credit to Cutler, but I’m not going to get roiled either way.
It is funny, thought, to see how the writers run with it. This guy talks about how young receivers struggle, but haven’t somehow with Cutler. Yet prominent in his strugglers list is David Terrell. Hmmm…. I guess the writer doesn’t realize Terrell was cut coming out of camp with Cutler a couple years back?. Eh, I guess Terrell wasn’t young anymore.
Regardless, Cutler is history here, and I am looking forward to the new season and a new QB. I do agree with the gist of bfree2bronc’s comment on Hillis, and felt that there were far too many cringe-inducing balls thrown over the middle where the big guys (Marshall and Sheff) got creamed. That’s not good, whatever the other benefits. Bottom line for me is that I felt Cutler hasn’t demonstrated how to excel in crunch time, and this year we’ll get the rare opportunity to see how one of those ‘What if?’ scenarios plays out. And if a few clunker comments by Jay provide more fire for our guys, then thanks for the help!
P.S. I was referring to the Sun-Times article
CST – It’s now becoming accepted as fact since Cutler said it….
We can do a little comparing the Broncos and bears this season.
The Broncos and Bears both play the Browns, Bengals, Ravens and Eagles this year. It will be interesting to do a little comparison with each other as those games unfold. The game I can’t wait to see is the Aug 13th preseason date we have with the bears, even though both teams won’t show everything we’ll at least get a glimps of things to come.
“The one thing we know for sure is that what we had wasn’t working. "
I beg to differ. It takes years to build a team! And luck! Last year we had how many injuries to the 2nd youngest line-up in the NFL? We were how many games out of the play-offs? We had the second ranked offense with 7 different RBs! Our O-line was just beginning to prosper! Jay was just two and a half years in! Our WRs were getting to know the offense and their QB. A running game & just the slightest improvement on our sorry defense and we’d be competing for the Championship this year!
I’m on board with supporting the Broncos… I know no other way. Just don’t IV me the Koolaid please!
Go Broncos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Whidbey Bronco on May 24, 2009 12:25 PM MDT reply actions
1st round WR
Larry Fitsgerald, Andre Johnson, Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson, Dwayne Bowe, Plax Burress, Reggie Wayne, Braylon Edwards, Torry Holt, etc. As this list demostrates, there are plenty of great WRs taken in round 1.
Eddie Royal was one of Shanahan’s best ever draft picks because there were other good WRs available when he took Royal. I do worry that Marshall will not be as good without Jay, but Royal.. Not so much. That guy is a stud.
I believe the yards after the catch is what will carry BMarsh.
He has demonstrated that he has the ability to juke away from defenders. He sould do OK if his hip heals good. He stated the other day that he was only playing at 80% if he gets healthy this year we may be saying, Moss who?
by bfree2bronc on May 24, 2009 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I knew you'd show up here eventually, McGeorge
Baby steps.
And welcome!
It's a matter of accuracy.
The CST article was basically this:
Bears hope Cutler has same success with our young receives as he has in the past.
(Reasoning: There is evidence to support this hope. Rookie receivers have had big years when Jay at QB. Three examples given, one from college and two from the the pros.) If I was a Bear fan, I would enjoy reading this article. It would give me hope that the receivers they have will do fine. Jay also says the current group will be fine by the time the season starts. Seems like he’s saying the right things.
The authors converts it into:
Cutler says, he turned Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal into star receivers.
I don’t find that accurate.
In my opinion, this site tries to separate out reporting and analysis from opinion and gossip. There’s room for both, of course, as long as it’s respectful.
I was under the impression that Horse Tracks was on the reporting side of the ledger. If it’s not, my mistake. I’m fairly new to the site, and perhaps I made an assumption that’s incorrect. If so, my bad. In the future, I’ll ignore the comments and just click on the links.
by MichaelCushman on May 24, 2009 12:50 PM MDT reply actions
I still haven't found the statement where jay said he made BMarsh and Royal.
Great to see you MC.
by bfree2bronc on May 24, 2009 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Good point
I mentioned this on another thread – the author did a nice side-step, avoiding mentioning Cutler’s supposed comment in quotes and claimed that Cutler had said this. We can’t quote Cutler because the author did not, and we are left talking about that which he left out.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
I agree that this comment by Cutler could have been taken many ways,
and was taken in (of course) the most dramatic sense. I will not fault Jay for saying that he “made” Marshall and Royal, because those words were not his. He didn’t say it! This is a MSM tactic. The headline becomes “Did Jay say that the Broncos Receivers are no-talent hacks without him?” and the substance of the article never really clarifies the question in the headline, so other media outlets start buzzing about the headline, sans evidence, and we have ourselves some news on a slow news day that has legs for weeks!
As for Horse Tracks, NYC compiles this list every morning. Give the guy some leeway to editorialize his one-line synopses with a little fun sarcasm. Do we agree with every little zing? No. But he links RIGHT to the article so you can make your own decision. Let the guy have a little fun at 3 AM or whenever it is that he wakes up to do this for us. I find it makes things more entertaining.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
By the way
I hope everybody is enjoying this Memorial Day Weekend, and please don’t forget to pay a little tribute the the men and women who serve for us to keep our freedom. Thanks everyone. 13-3 Baby!!!
by bfree2bronc on May 24, 2009 12:56 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
+ Infinity bfree
With the 12th pick, the Broncos select Knowshon Moreno - Roger Goodell
That'll move the chains - Andy Samberg
I read this site daily Jeff G. Usually too much biased home town rah-rah talk in most posts, but the analysis of this team is deeper and more thoughtful than the DP. this site is like a college course at CU, very biased, but also intelligent.
We make no claim....
of being impartial journalists. We’re not that at all. We try to be objective, insofar as objectivity adds value to the Broncos fan experience, but nobody should expect us to turn negative against the team. This site is by the fans, and for the fans, as the site header clearly states. Our approach is different, on many levels, than the Denver Post, and we hope to always serve the fan base well.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on May 24, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions
The thing I love that this site does:
Every time the coaches make a decision, we try to analyze why they did it. We look at the situation from the coach’s viewpoint, and we accept that coaches and personnel men may have viewed our team differently, with different needs and strengths, than we as fans have.
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
I wasn't aware that the DP did analysis
YMMV of course.
I sometimes tire of the (what often strikes me as) forced comraderie here in the comments, but having said that, there is no lack of objective analysis here.
I don’t think we should confuse agreement with what the new front office and coaching staff is doing, with “biased home town rah-rah talk.” Although to someone who doesn’t agree it may very well look like such, it is just as likely that one can arrive at his agreement by way of objective consideration and analysis.
For instance, consider Chibronx’s observation about the respective rankings of our DLine and secondary.
Had any of the “experts” bothered to look into the numbers, they wouldn’t be so completely lost about why the Broncos concentrated on bolstering their safety and corner play, both through free agency and the draft.
And for all the talk about how much help we need on the D-line, one almost never hears about people like Powell or Fields from anyone in the MSM.
Fact is, we need to find 6 or so guys capable of stopping the run and providing an inside push. I think we have many of those guys on the roster now — or, at the very least, we have beefier guys capable of approximating those roles, which enabled us to get value in our safety and secondary picks.
I know that you aren’t crazy about Smith or McBath, McGeorge. But they have great natural ability, and they are now in a position to learn from Bailey and Dawkins. For whatever reason, Paymah, for all I liked his size, was never able to get over his fear of getting burned.
by JeffG on May 24, 2009 1:25 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Nicely said, J
Couldn’t agree more.
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on May 24, 2009 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
by Matt In Canada on May 24, 2009 7:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks, NYC.
"A spaceman. That’s what they say I am."
by Tempestuous Binary on May 24, 2009 4:39 PM MDT reply actions
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