Broncos Cut J.J. Arrington
FA running back J.J Arrington just got cut by the Broncos after he failed a physical. Well, that experiment was sure over fast. McDaniels, why sign so many FA running backs if you're going to draft Moreno in the first round?
I don't even disagree with the draft pick, just the FA signing (and almost immediate buyer's remorse following it). You'd think that they'd give him a physical before they sign him too.
almost 3 years ago
Jeff Aberle
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Well . . .
that sure as hell didn’t last long.
The whole thing on this one just seems iffy. This coming from a guy who liked the signing when it happened.
"The world is getting to be such a dangerous place, a man is lucky to get out of it alive." -- W.C. Fields
What "Buyer's Remorse?"
You bring in a bunch of guys to compete: partially to improve the overall quality of the position, and partially because there are some health concerns. After a couple months, Arrington wasn’t improving at the rate the team would have liked…that takes care of part of the backlog.
I still don’t get what the knock is against bringing all these guys in. Buckhalter, Jordan, Arrington…all have been quality back-ups in the league, and it can’t hurt to have that kind of depth. None of them, however, have ever been The Man, which is what Moreno is supposed to be. All the moves fit together.
But thanks for the news Jabberwocky! :)
"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.
Arrington was never a quaity backup
He’s a bust ever since he entered the league, I don’t have a problem with bringing in guys, but Arrington never showed he could do anything in this league. What does annoy me is they cut a guy like Alridge to sign Arrington, why? Alridge showed promise and cost less than Arrington.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
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"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
When did Alridge show promise?
In his two preseason games? Did he look good in practice? Or standing on the sidelines? The guy only had one thing going for him- speed. He had no moves, no versatility, and no experience as a kick returner. Oh, and as so many others have told you directly, Arrington cost us NOTHING (I repeat, NOTHING) to sign. His contract was contingent on him passing a physical. Since he failed the physical, he will cost us zero dollars to cut.
WE GOT MORENO!!!!
Of more importance to McD
Aldridge couldn’t block in pass protection. Didn’t anyone see how Pittsburg ate Sproles alive on pass plays? In the modern NFL if you cannot block on pass coverage you are a liability on 3rd down.
by SlowWhiteGuy on May 28, 2009 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions
By "buyer's remorse" I meant you buy a product (in this particular case Arrington)...
and find out pretty quickly that it isn’t what you paid for. Perhaps this health issue should have been caught earlier…but this sounds like the Broncos wanted to release JJ so they blew a minor medical problem out of proportion to get him out of there.
The problem with bringing all those backs in is that you have to pay them. So, no downside for the fans, but a curious move for the organization.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on May 28, 2009 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think so
McD on BroncosTV today sounded disappointed that JJ didn’t work out, and it also sounded like the feeling was mutual. I think both sides were hoping for the best in this case.
I don’t think this is a minor issue he is going to have to deal with. J.J. could be done.
Tis better not to throw it to the deep receiver but the open receiver.
Failed physical?
Some posters on FO are saying he failed his physical… which would explain the quick firing.
I don't think McD wanted to cut JJ, but failed physical could be anything....
drug use maybe?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
nevermind...ouch!
season-ending microfracture surgery on his troublesome right knee.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
Zappa? Knee surgery eh? Damn.
2 mil wasted without a down played! Nice. I was looking forward to having him return kicks…
It is easy to be critical in hindsight. I'm not though.
I thought it was a good move at the time (given the number of injuries we have had at the position).
But Jabberwocky, I have to disagree with the tone that I think I’m reading in your fanshot. We got several decent RBs during the offseason. We got the best RB in the draft, and it turns out to be even smarter than many of us thought (since one of our FA acquisitions didn’t make the team).
I wish Arrington well on his surgery, and am even more pleased that we have Moreno (et al).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
+2
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
damn straight
After last year, I’m glad the new HC recognized the need to deepen the RB position. It was a given that not all of them would make the cut. Certainly explains the additional RB we signed last week!
"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster
by broncosmontana on May 27, 2009 10:27 PM MDT up reply actions
At the time Arrington was signed...
It would have been impossible to count on being able to draft Moreno. Critcising them for signing FAs and then finding Moreno available at 12 is like asking why they weren’t clairvoyant.
Too bad he didn’t make the physical. If the contract was contingent on that, they seemed to have done their homework and once more the crticisms seem mis-directed.
"Now we have them where we want them"
-Kieth Bishop - On the Denver 2 yard line, Cleveland Ohio, 1987
Look, who was going to take Moreno before 12?
Nobody…and that’s a calculated risk you have to take sometimes. I disagree with the point that these FA running backs are “decent”, and especially not JJ or Buckhalter. The moves this offseason, in my opinion, have been a little mystifying.
That and as a FO reader I don’t believe that Moreno was even the best back in the draft available (crappy speed score).
In this particular case, I didn’t know the full situation when I posted this (the injury appears more serious than I’d previously speculated) and the contract was more favorable to the Broncos—so I don’t mind nearly as much. That still doesn’t change the fact that the Broncos signed JJ Arrington.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on May 28, 2009 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
But teams would take Moreno AT 12, and were willing to trade up to do so
Who’s to say that there weren’t offers on the table for teams to move to 11, but they were turned down? I don’t think you can just say that “nobody” would take Moreno before 12.
As for Speed Scores, they are like most statistics: they give you a view into the underlying process, but they can’t give the whole picture at once. For example, Kevin Jones should be an elite back based upon his score (123.4), while Brian Westbrook is pretty average (91.7). The big issue with Speed Score (which is a function of weight and 40 time) is that it can penalize players that don’t time well in straight-ahead speed. IMO, Moreno get’s penalized here (96.9) because of a “deficit” in straight-line speed…but that doesn’t give the full story. Moreno never appears to lose speed when making a cut, and his cuts are always well timed. He’s an asset in pass blocking AND in receiving His 40 time wasn’t great, but his 3-cone drill was exceptional.
Of course, now I’m going off the Arrington into a discussion of FO stats…which is something else entirely. Fun, however!
(Oh, and Arrington’s DVOA was 31%, which is very good…but in a small sample size. Just thought I’d mention.)
"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.
IMO Kevin Jones would be an elite back if he didn't get injured so much...
but yeah. My point is that there’s a higher success rate with RBs that have a higher speed score. Westbrook is actually below average in speed score, but he is an outlier, not the norm—just as Jones is a high outlier.
Hey, I hope that Moreno becomes an elite back with the Broncos too. I’m just not holding my breath.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on May 29, 2009 12:44 AM MDT up reply actions
It is far different
to draft Moreno at 12 when you have another pick at 18 than to take Moreno at 12 with nothing else. We might have had to take Ayers at that point and potentially overpay as KC had to do with Jackson.
Tis better not to throw it to the deep receiver but the open receiver.
Orakpo was available and would go right at "slot". I'd sure like to have him on the team ahead of Moreno...
Regardless of what McD thinks.
Eschew Obfuscation!
Regardless
My point was when they only had the 12th pick they probably would have taken a D player over Moreno. They really didn’t know they were going to get him.
Tis better not to throw it to the deep receiver but the open receiver.
That's one . . .
We have to remember the chronological sequence here – when we signed all the free agent RBs, we hadn’t drafted Moreno yet and couldn’t have known that he would be available. That said, I wasn’t all that keen on any of these guys to begin with (although that was also before Selvin failed his physical). I think Buckhalter or Jordan might stick, but not both and I don’t think Walker will make it either. All we lose is depth and Mr. Bowlen’s signing bonus money.
It's "just" football
The medical issue
The surgery required called microfracture surgery involves multiple cuts into bone to cause bleeding and ultimately the possibility that new cartilage formation will occur. However there is no guarantee that this will occur and frequently there is significant arthritis as a consequence. For a running back this is likely the end of a career. Too bad, but the right choice to release him.
TD
Didn’t TD have microfracture surgery near the end? Not good.
Keep Moving Forward.
by ColoradoOwl on May 27, 2009 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions
For his age and history of knee problems
His full recovery is pretty rare from what I have read anyway.
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by Choochoobonewagon on May 27, 2009 11:37 PM MDT up reply actions
so we don't lose any money or cap room to this?
because we negotiated a knee injury waiver? nice. guess the 3m “guaranteed” everyone kept talking about in the media wasn’t really, um, guaranteed.
wonder what this means for Torain, and the kick returner slot?
We actually don't lose any money.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12461192
Arrington will go down as the tailback the Broncos once badly wanted but never had. On Feb. 27, the opening of free agency, the Broncos and Arrington reached an agreement in principle on a four-year, $10 million contract that included a $3 million guarantee in signing bonus and salary.
The deal was never signed, however, because the two sides disagreed over contract language regarding the torn meniscus in Arrington’s right knee. A week later, the contract was rewritten and an agreement was reached, this time with a knee-injury waiver against the $3 million.
Quote courtesy of BroncosNL
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 28, 2009 5:55 AM MDT up reply actions
JJ was my dude in madden 06
that being said, good luck to him
"Have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?"
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"Born like this / Into this"
Im so glad that they cut him not becuase i didnt like him, but i want Torain.
Remember when Shanny compared him to TD. You cant just discard stuff like that. I am sooo pumped up about Torain and i prey that he will be given a shot and that he excells tremendously.
it does open the door slightly....doesnt it
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
Good thing we signed several RBs and drafted Moreno.
It sucks to lose a guy because of injury as we had all of last year. However it is good it happens now than instead of the regular season and then we need to find someone to fill his spot.
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
Lakers lead Nuggets 3-2
Looks like we did not have to pay him the big millions
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12461192
Arrington will go down as the tailback the Broncos once badly wanted but never had. On Feb. 27, the opening of free agency, the Broncos and Arrington reached an agreement in principle on a four-year, $10 million contract that included a $3 million guarantee in signing bonus and salary.
The deal was never signed, however, because the two sides disagreed over contract language regarding the torn meniscus in Arrington’s right knee. A week later, the contract was rewritten and an agreement was reached, this time with a knee-injury waiver against the $3 million.
Thats a big relief…. now if all other MSM sources change their story so it doesnt sound like Denver did something stupid again.
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getting a head start on injured RBs
correll buckhalter is not a sure thing either. The difference is he played all of last year on his reconstructed knees, and has a clean bill of health for the offseason…
I think we need to start a RB injuries spreadsheet….Something tells me that it is going to be hard to keep track of. Again.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 28, 2009 3:29 AM MDT reply actions
I'm optimistic on our injuries for RB situation.
One, a new coach is likely to audit each of his departments (coaching staff, training staff, etc) when he comes on board. I think he will fix whatever was broken with our trainers and practice issues that led us to so many injuries.
Second, we now have workhorse RBs in the stable instead of just specialists. I expect them to be more durable.
Here’s hoping anyway.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 28, 2009 6:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Has anyone noticed
the remarkable number of players who are talking about injuries that went undiagnosed last year – B-marsh, DJ, etc.
by SlowWhiteGuy on May 28, 2009 9:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Isn't "Greek" still our strength and conditioning guy again this year?
Yes, I would suggest creating that RB Injury spreadsheet again for 2009….
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
greek is a medical doctor
and not part of the strength and conditioning staff, though he works closely with them.. He is a pros pro.
Our S&C staff consists of Tuten and his assistant Greg Saporta.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 28, 2009 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions
bye JJ
He did very little if anything for the Cardinals over the years. He could block a bit, catch the ball, and sort of reliable to generally hold onto the ball during kick off returns. but I had no idea why the Broncos would go out of their way to pick someone up that was even less than a journeyman.
And for the comment about Knowshown being a poor choice because his speed numbers were not stellar means we should draft like the Raiders- and according to that theory – the Raiders have a great first round choice at Wide Reciever – right ?
Speed score = speed per his size
in other words, effective speed. Average is 100, with Moreno scoring 96.9.
See here and here for explanations of the metric.
This statement from the FO Article is particularly damning:
Going back to 1999, that would be the lowest speed score posted by a first-round pick; the only two backs selected in the first round to post a speed score under 100 are William Green (98.7) and Trung Canidate (99.3). Only one back in the 11 seasons we’ve got speed score data for made it to the Pro Bowl after posting a speed score below 98.0: Brian Westbrook.
I realize that Moreno’s pick was about more than just him carrying the ball (3 down player, etc.), but IMO Beanie Wells and Donald Brown will be more effective RBs in the ground game.
Eschew Obfuscation!
Not convinced on that stat.
I’m curious what Hillis’ speed score is. I suspect it is also a bit low, but I was thrilled by his play and production last year.
Brown and Wells might play better
straight up the gut as it were. I don’t think they will be better backs. To recite the horribly inept media, he is a “Factor Back.” Moreno brings a lot to the table not least of all is his WR potential.
Tis better not to throw it to the deep receiver but the open receiver.
I'll jump in here to streamline the conversation :)
Here’s my biggest issue with Speed Score. It is a useful tool, and of course, who wouldn’t want a big, powerful back with lots of speed! But Speed Score doesn’t encapsulate all of the abilities that can make a back great. For instance, both Brown and Wells had faster 40 times, and therefore better Speed Scores. However, Wells has some big durability concerns and hasn’t shown great ability to receive out of the backfield, while Brown’s scouting report question his leg drive. Both Brown and Wells have some spotty reports with pass blocking.
Moreno’s only real drawback is that lack of “top-end” speed, but all the clips I’ve seen of him haven’t really shown that. He can run inside or out, makes first defenders miss, isn’t afraid to lower the shoulder, drives forward for extra yards, and can be used as a pass blocker and receiver. His 3-cone drill was better than Browns (Wells didn’t participate).
I guess what I’m trying to say is, rather than saying “Speed Score below 100, he has huge question marks”, the next step should be, “WHY is he ranked so high with that 40 time?” Seems like he has everything you’d want in a feature back except that last gear…and even that doesn’t seem to be lacking in actual game footage. He may very well be a player that doesn’t lose any speed in pads during a game, and who can get that extra gear in the pessure of the moment (of course, that last bit is just speculation).
"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.
I agree with all of your points here...
Moreno very well could be the draft’s most complete back. I’m just not sure that a) he’s the best guy in this class purely in the ground game and b) that a guy with his peripherals is worthy of the 12th pick in the draft.
Eschew Obfuscation!
For anyone still worried about the money
For anyone still worried….NFP had a great article:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/05/arringtons-knee-the-waiver/
Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands
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