Champ Bailey position move?

by Jack Skellington on Jun 17, 2009 4:40 PM MDT Comment 15 comments

I am by no means a very knowlegeable person when it comes to positioning players. I have, however, had this though for a while and have not found anyone that gives me good feedback, so I thought I would post it to you all. Please feel free to tell me I'm an idiot for even sugesting this.

Now, it seems as though Champ Bailey's numbers have gone down since the '06 season. My guess is that other teams recognized that he is a major threat when a pass comes near (especially in the red zone). I am wondering what everyone else feels would happen if Champ was moved from corner to free safety. I think that if he were playing free safety he would have many more chances for int's, stopping runs, etc. Champ seems to have the tackeling strength and speed to do much more at free saftey than at corner. Again, I'm not all that knowledgeable about positioning but would appreciate a good opinion on this (even if it's to call me an idiot).

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Hey Jack, I haven't seen you here before

Welcome, it’s funny you mention this, we just had a discussion about this about 2 weeks ago. Here’s the link right here:

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/6/8/902679/want-to-improve-the-secondary-move

"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall

by Joe Medina on Jun 17, 2009 4:44 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

For both the welcome and link. I actually have not posted previously, but may be a career lurker.

by Jack Skellington on Jun 17, 2009 4:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's nothing wrong with that.

"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall

by Joe Medina on Jun 17, 2009 5:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I think that is what is great about Champ

No one throws it to him. Now if this year we just pair him up against the other teams #1 reciever instead of just having him cover half the field he will be much more useful

HILLIS

by robbo650 on Jun 17, 2009 6:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I would be opposed to this move

There is just more inherent value in a CB than in a Safety, and your best CBs need to be at CB.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Jun 17, 2009 7:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Champ is where he is at for a reason,

the right handed QB’s have to look back accross the their left for the pass. Some teams don’t even throw the ball over his way, and others will try it on occasion just to see if he is on his game for that play. He’ll stay there, Goodman on the other side and Smith in on the nickle. How could we go wrong?

by bfree2bronc on Jun 17, 2009 8:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

gotta get that QB pressure

and we’ll look normal again. I shudder when I remember that the 2007 and 2008 defenses are officially a part of Denver history. the worst part? there are players on those defenses I really like!

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 18, 2009 2:02 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm one of the biggest proponents of Champ moving to FS

But NOT until he loses a step and ONLY if he wants to keep playing football at that point. As long as he still excels at CB, he plays CB.

2/3 of the earth is covered by water. The other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jun 18, 2009 7:56 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't thin it's crossed McD's mind.

McD and Xanders brought in 4 new safeties (Dawkins, Hill, McBath, and Bruton) so I think they’re looking now and into the future as far as safety goes.

Also, as others have eluded to, with cornerback being arguably the most important defensive position (aside from a dominant rusher) no team can afford to put their best corner at safety. Is Champ as dominant as he was say 2 or 3 years ago? No. Is he still a Top 10 corner in this league? I challenge anybody to prove to me otherwise.

Also, Champ is in the unique situation in which is reputation may exceed his actual talent. Few corners are able to both play physically at the line and run like Champ can. No corner is as technically gifted. So even though he’s slipped in age, I still think teams treat him like a Top 3 corner and try to throw away with him.

I think his production has suffered for 3 reasons. 1. He’s been dinged up. 2. I don’t care how good you are, no corner is going to be able to effective if it takes your front 5,6,7 seconds to get to the passer. 3. Of course no team is going to throw at Champ when Josh Bell is on the other side of the field, limiting his opportunities. I think with a vastly improved secondary in both quality and depth along with a new scheme that will attack the passer more, teams will have few opportunities to avoid Champ and you’ll see the interception and deflections shoot up.

by Vortex7 on Jun 18, 2009 11:41 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Well...

At least I finally have some kind of feedback on this. Thanks to everyone for giving me a bit of perspective. I have finally found a place to post my Broncos thoughts without having to slog through 50 posts of BS to find something intelligent.

by Jack Skellington on Jun 18, 2009 12:40 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

You have

definitely come to the right place Jack. Welcome.

With the 12th pick, the Broncos select Knowshon Moreno - Roger Goodell
That'll move the chains - Andy Samberg

by KaptainKirk on Jun 18, 2009 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Welcome to a world full of REAL people.

It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.

by metalman5050 on Jun 19, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

It has been discussed a lot at MHR, but...

…there is nothing wrong at all with bringing something up that’s been discussed before. Folks may have a new angle, and others may not have been around for the discussion the last time. You’re a new poster (WELCOME!), and you SHOULD be bringing up issues that you want to talk about. That’s what MHR is about!

I am one of the folks opposed to the move, and I’ve written a lot of comments about it. In my opinion, a lot of folks think of the safety as a “lesser CB”, and assume it is a good move for slowing CBs. It works out, but not often. The skill set is much different (zoning over a receiver, as opposed to zoning under or playing man like a CB).

Bailey takes away half of the field (when, like all CBs, he has pass rush support and safety support). As a safety (after losing a step), he’s just a slower safety. I’d rather Champ play out his career as a solid safety, and leave the safety position to guys that can still cover the deep zones with their own speed and agility. Both positions are important, both have their own skill sets, and both shouldn’t be left to guys who are in decline.

Even John Lynch (who was done with his best years after leaving TB) continued to play as a solid safety because he still had the ability to read offenses (a safety skill). As I mentioned in a comment a few days ago, safeties often read the “entire offense” (a strategic skill), while great CBs read the QB and the receiver that they are covering (a tactical skill). For all of Champ’s greatness (and his excellent tactical mind), we don’t know if he can read an entire offense. He hasn’t been practicing that skill, nor was he supposed to.

There are sharp folks who disagree with me. My opinion is just an opinion, not a solid fact. But my opinion on this one is pretty strong. I would bet that Champ retires as a CB, and not a safety (for the reasons I have mentioned).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 19, 2009 2:47 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

discussing the move

I respect your opinion on this subject, HT.

My thinking on this subject has subtly changed. I don’t mind seeing Champ end his career as a CB — albeit a slightly slower one — but I wonder if his skill set wouldn’t be of more use at FS. The main reason for wondering whether he’d work better at FS is the leg problems he’s had in the last two years.

So, for precisely the same reason you mention, i.e., reading the entire defense, I wonder if he might not be better served at FS, since it could take some burden off of his legs. My thinking here is that the sudden reactions required at CB place more stress on his tendons and joints. Having the opportunity to play a looser coverage, coverage that doesn’t require him to mirror the WR’s moves, might allow him more freedom to react to the play.

We can only speculate. He would still have to demonstrate an ability to read the entire defense, but I have confidence in his abilities since he’s already shown himself to be a pretty spectacular player.

It’s only an idea — of course. Most ideas should be discarded, after consideration. I think the idea has reached the threshold of deserving some consideration now, because it’s not simply a “make a good CB into an average FS anymore.” It’s about using his abilities in a way that saves his legs (perhaps) and allows him to use his playmaking abilities, which haven’t been displayed lately, partly because he’s tied down at CB but also because the pass rush hasn’t been there.

It’s an idea that’s worth consideration, which is different than saying it should be done. It’s possible that we’d be well-served by gradually (over the course of the next few years) moving Williams and Smith into the starting roles (or another) and using Bailey in another way. Perhaps it’s my ignorance of the ‘Xs and Os’ here but I don’t see it as necessarily moving Bailey out of his position. I see it more as a 3rd CB with less defined responsibilities, sort of like how the FS position developed historically (I believe). I think Bailey is such a valuable asset that I’d like to conserve him while also allowing him to use his strengths as a player.

"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas

by Colinski on Jun 30, 2009 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

?

As a safety (after losing a step), he’s just a slower safety. I’d rather Champ play out his career as a solid safety, and leave the safety position to guys that can still cover the deep zones with their own speed and agility

Should that read ’as a slower CB…"? Not to kvetch, just being clear.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 21, 2009 12:05 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs