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Horse Tracks 6/2/09

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Mornin' MHR Friends! So, it seems the MSM is now going to take the DP's report from Thursday's camp that Chris Simms got more reps than Kyle Orton in one single practice and take it to mean that Simms is beating Orton in the QB competition. Of course, this now means the Cutler trade was even worse than everyone said it was! Unleash the hounds! Fire McDaniels! Fire Xanders! Commissioner Goodell should remove Pat Bowlen from ownership! Umm, it's June 2nd, folks...we're about 2 months from seeing a depth chart and 3 months from Week 1.

Broncos' Marshall has quick trip - The Denver Post
Kennard McGuire, the agent for Brandon Marshall, downplayed last week's report that BMarsh was in Florida due to his contract demands. According to McGuire, the issue is over Marshall's medical health. Remember, Marshall said last week that he had several MRIs last season that turned up negative.

Hip Injuries Bringing More Athletes to Their Knees - NYTimes.com
Here's an interesting article addressing the rise of hip injuries, which relates to BMarsh; medical experts and trainers have seen a steep increase in hip injuries this season, even among superstar players, and have yet to determine the exact reasons behind the trend.

Mailbag: Draw from Nuggets' model - The Denver Post
Klis responds to some reader emails. He thinks Commissioner Goodell is waiting for BMarsh's Atlanta case to proceed before making a decision on Marshall's 2009 fate.

Denver Broncos Wide Receiver Brandon Marshall Responds To Accusations On ESPN's Outside The Lines - cbs4denver.com
Reggie Rivers offers his take on BMarsh on CBS4.

Lions cut OT Foster, clearing a roster spot for veteran Jansen
George Foster. Two of my teams have had disastrous George Foster experiments. The first one called the Mets organization racist for benching him, and the other one needs no introduction here...

NFL: John Clayton examines the Denver Broncos' offseason and answers some mail - ESPN
Clayton now says "the Broncos gave up Cutler to get" Kyle Orton. Right. Just because the DP said Simms was pushing Orton in May... Xanders: Hey, what'll it take to make Orton a Bronco? Angelo: How about Jay Cutler? Xanders: Done.

Matthew Stafford, Drew Brees, Matt Millen, more NFL notes - Peter King - SI.com
P. King references a recent conversation he had with Gary Zimmerman. He also addresses the inexpensive release of J.J. Arrington and the folks who flipped out upon hearing about it, in his Monday column. Plus, Stink's kid made his MLB debut. Baseball fans MUST read PK's re-telling of the BC vs. Texas game.

 

 

 

Star-divide

 

 

Team has hatched grand plans to signify its 50th season
The Dolts announced how they will commemorate their 50 years of ZERO Super Bowl Titles. In case you forgot, the Dolts have 7 HOFers as compared to Denver's 2. With ZERO Championships.

"Greatest moments list" by Chargers Blog
Here are the "greatest" moments in Dolts history. Note: there are no Super Bowl titles to find here, either.

Chiefs adjust to new roles in new defense - Kansas City Star
The Chefs' transition to a new scheme is resulting in position changes for several players, just as is happening in Denver.

Former Cowboys defensive coordinator Stewart joins Eagles as assistant
The Iggles hired former Cowboys DC Brian Stewart as special assistant to the defense.

Vikings cut WR Rogers
The Vikings cut receiver Roderick Rogers on Monday. Yes, it's the same guy who played safety for the Broncos.

NFL commissioner Goodell doesn't have target date to finish new labor deal
Headed into contact talks with the players' union, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said Monday that there is no timetable to reach a new agreement.

The National Football Post | Players Solidly Behind New Union Leader
Michael Martinez looks at Wednesday's commencement of labor talks for a new CBA.

Cardinals GM Graves planning to meet with Boldin's new agent soon
According to Cards GM Rod Graves, Anquan Boldin has hired agent Tom Condon to replace Drew Rosenhaus.

Report: Tennessee Titans' Vince Young wants to play or move on - ESPN
Vince Young reportedly wants to play or leave Tennessee.

NFL - NFL offseason winners, losers and awards - FOX Sports on MSN
Alex Marvez dumps the Broncos among the offseason's biggest losers and claims that Josh McDaniels' grace period is over. He also jumps on the "Orton may lose out to Simms" Bandwagon. No, I think we're going to actually wait to see the depth chart and some games first...

Packers in early stages of transition to 3-4 - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
Charles Robinson looks at how the 3-4 transition is affecting the Packers' defensive holdovers.

The National Football Post | Harvin Will Be Dynamic In 2009
Matt Bowen sees big results out of Percy Harvin this season.

The National Football Post | Diner Morning News: Vick & The Rams
Mike Lombardi thinks signing Mike Vick would make football sense for the Rams.

June 1: Kroenke is Best Hope for St. Louis Rams | Bernie’s 5 Minutes | STLtoday
Bernie Miklasz thinks Stan Kroenke would be the potential new owner who'd keep the Rams in St. Loo, if he can get around the cross-ownership rules.

Williams' revamped defense might be Saints' return ticket to postseason
Bucky Brooks thinks new Saints DC Gregg Williams could help New Orleans make the playoffs.

The National Football Post | Time To Give Stafford The Ball
Matt Bowen thinks Matt Stafford should be the Lions' starting QB Week 1.

The National Football Post | Monday Money Matters
Andrew Brandt explains what used to happen with the salary cap on June 1st's gone by.

The National Football Post | You’re Fired!
Jack Bechta shares what it's like for an agent to be fired by a player.

Quiet statement - The Boston Globe
Arena Ball DB Martel Van Zant is hoping to follow the footsteps of former Bronco Kenny Walker and be the third deaf player to reach the NFL.

The National Football Post | 2009 NFP Scouting Series: Ole Miss
Wes Bunting looks to Ole Miss for 2010 Draft prospects.

 

2 recs  |  Comment 33 comments

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Hey guys, I’m as sick as everyone else of hearing the same tired critisism from people who can’t get over: McDaniels, the Cutler trade, or the Draft. But every article MHR has posted on here for the last two months seams to contain a swipe of some sort or another at anybody who doesn’t completely agree with everything the Broncos do. It seems to me that a lot of the people who became angry with the Broncos over last few months aren’t going to come back into the fold if MHR continues to needle them like this.

by TheSwampBronc on Jun 2, 2009 5:52 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty confident...

That I’ve been critical of writers who skip the facts or rely on hearsay; I am totally fine with those criticizing the Broncos when they are objective. But Clayton misrepresents the facts in yesterday’s column and that’s his basis for saying the Broncos don’t know what they’re doing. It’s June 2nd, for crying out loud.

I have no idea how the Broncos’ 2009 season will play out, and I pay a lot more attention to them than John Clayton does. So do all of you. But Clayton writes that McDaniels has no plan, that the Broncos are acting like an expansion team, and his big “demerits” are based upon Chris Simms beating Kyle Orton for the QB job and their failure to bring in a proven NT. There are plenty of big leaps there…

by Douglas A. Lee on Jun 2, 2009 7:19 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep I reckon McD has a plan

Better than Clayton’s too I reckon.

by Whidbey Bronco on Jun 2, 2009 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Needle?

I don’t see what you are saying, but I think I probably have thicker skin than most. The comments NYC puts on his horse tracks come from him…I think it is a welcome addition to an article that would otherwise just be a boring list of links. Thanks NYC.

As far as people somehow feeling alienated by his color commentary: Bronco up people. If you don’t like his comments, post your arguments below with supporting facts. This is a civilized blog with many many differing points of view. They are all accepted and all welcome as long as you aren’t being a tool.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jun 2, 2009 7:44 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought the criticism of Clayton was appropriate. For some reason, people mention the Cutler trade as if it was a straight-up quarterback swap. In effect, the Broncos traded Cutler for Knowshon Moreno, Alphonso Smith, AND Kyle Orton.

I know Ayers was the actual pick, but I don’t think they would have drafted Knowshon if they didn’t have another first round pick for the defense. Likewise with Smith.

There’s also the implication that if Simms gets the starting job, that Orton will be a failure. It doesn’t consider that in this system Simms might put together what he’s shown flashes of in the past. He’s got a lot of guts (if no spleen), and he might earn the job by exceeding his initial expectations. If that happens, the Broncos will find themselves with a very good quarterback, a great backfield and receiving corps, and one of the best O-Lines in football. I’ll never claim to be a football expert, but that sounds like a formula for offensive success to me.

by Velveeta on Jun 2, 2009 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'd actually like to here their snide sarcasm face...

In the mean time, we should all be hoping that both QBs are pushing each other to learn this complicated new system and improve. Surely our staff has no real idea of who’s leading at this point at any position without a previous year’s starter in place… Can’t wait to see how it turns out. Fingers crossed.

PS I’m thinking the ‘swipes’ we constantly hear here, are more from the entire NFL world agreeing with we disgruntled fans than anything said here. Still, we’re all fans. We’ll get past this, it really only just happened after all.

by Whidbey Bronco on Jun 2, 2009 6:05 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You’re right; we don’t know who’s winning the QB race. But neither does John Clayton; so I think it’s a bit ridiculous that he jumps ahead and says that IF Simms beats Orton out then the Cutler trade is that much worse.

We can also say that if the Broncos go winless in 2009, Josh McDaniels did a poor job. But that is also based upon a very large presumption.

WB, some of us want to wait for actual facts…like depth charts, games, etc.
I know, you have all the answers – so go to Vegas, bet your house on the Broncos’ under and you’ll be set.

by Douglas A. Lee on Jun 2, 2009 7:22 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry NYC

I know I’m often the critical one but I was agreeing with you for the most part….

For the record though, you’re way the hell off base! I haven’t made my prediction for the year yet! In fact I’m equally offended that you glob me into the naysayer class of malcontents who think they know more than they do and pick us to fail simply because they’re mad at a few decisions they feel are wrong!!!!

Hello? You haven’t been reading me at all!

I’m all about Vegas actually and I wouldn’t touch a prediction for the Broncos record for twice the odds they’re offering! We know NOTHING yet! “like depth charts, games, etc.” McD may have done some dumb things (in my opinion) but that doesn’t make him an idiot without a plan! I’ve no doubt he’s very intelligent and he definitely has a plan!! I’m ALL FOR waiting to see it unfold before passing further judgment!!

I’m used to you being informed before you respond to a post… this is a case where you ARE NOT. At least in this case you don’t have to wait for the facts… they’re in my posts!

by Whidbey Bronco on Jun 2, 2009 8:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, WB

It looked to me like you were piling onto whatever TheSwampBronc wrote above. Maybe you didn’t fully read what he wrote? I can see how if you didn’t totally read what he said, then you weren’t going after me. TSB was referring to my “swipes” and “needling” (not those from the MSM) so your comments seemed to me just a continuation of that.

by Douglas A. Lee on Jun 3, 2009 5:56 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

... to Face

It’s just too easy to let rude crap fall out your neck from the safety of your keyboard.

by Whidbey Bronco on Jun 2, 2009 6:06 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You are more than welcome to create a FanPost at anytime, WB. It’s very easy to sit back and comment and criticize the work of others when you do none of your own…

by Douglas A. Lee on Jun 2, 2009 7:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that was aimed at you.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2009 9:24 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto.

That was my take as well.

(And, I appreciate all your work NYC!)

by NedBronco on Jun 2, 2009 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow.

thanks for the post NYC, I’m tired of the slams against we FANS who think management made some mistakes this offseason! That’s all… Let it go.

And ease up on the sarcasm, it makes you sound like a jerk. My posts are generally something I DO work at. Maybe I don’t have the time you apply to yours but I do think before I write and I am emotionally vested in my posts.

Go Broncos!!

by Whidbey Bronco on Jun 2, 2009 8:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry again, WB

I thought your comment about “rude crap fall(ing) out your neck” was directly applied to me…

by Douglas A. Lee on Jun 3, 2009 5:57 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or was it?

My commentary was in reference to the MSM, not to the fans like you…

by Douglas A. Lee on Jun 3, 2009 6:01 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank for your hard work, NYC

and for the record, imho, I think some folks need to thicken their skins a little. This is not a non-biased news aggregation feed. This is a blog post, full of opinions of every stripe and color. If some feel so strongly about their opinions that they can’t put up with someone else’s, maybe they should post their own version of tracks every day or just do their own surfing every day. Asking NYC to temper his own opinions in his own blog post when he has made it of the most regular, consistent, generous contributions on the site is a little unfair. For some of us, the humorous asides are what give this feature some editorial teeth, even if we don’t agree with every comment.

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on Jun 2, 2009 6:42 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

+1000

Wish I would have read this before I said basically the same thing above.

BRONCO UP PEOPLE! :)

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jun 2, 2009 7:46 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

thank you x infinity

As someone who has run a popular blog of my own for going on 8 years, I can attest that the reward-to-work ratio is miniscule. People seem to think the content appears magically, or that it appears for their individual pleasures.

Adding an editorial slant is what makes this column yours, nyc. Just keep doing what you do and try not to sweat the vocal complainers. Believe me, people here who have any idea of the work involved look at them as being remarkably unappreciative.

by JeffG on Jun 2, 2009 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said BM and keep up the work NYC

I like the fact that NYC adds his own take on things when doing Horse Tracks. That is what people do when they are either writing for a column or writing a post on a blog. It adds some personality that makes it that much more interesting to read.

GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!

NBA Finals: Lakers v. Magic. Game 1 June 4th

by weazel on Jun 2, 2009 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now, what I was going to say

was that I suspected that Marshall’s trip was more about his MRIs than his decision to ask for an extension, given his blog post the other day. To me, the request for an extension is good news — it shows me he wants to play here, that he’s integrating himself with the new staff, and that he has every intention of remaining a Bronco. Although few actually land an early extension, many players routinely ask for one as they approach the end of their current contract. The timing was a little odd, but I just think that his interest in a new deal shows more that he’s interested in staying here than anything. Let’s remember that he’s in his fourth year of a four-year contract. If we can do an extension this year, once his legal issues and health issues are put to rest, we might actually have some leverage in the deal.

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on Jun 2, 2009 6:53 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, I think

There is nothing here today that I really want to read, past the headlines. I am thankful for NYC giving me the opportunity to make that choice to filter through all things Bronco related each day. He makes it so easy for all of us, that I must show my appreciation daily.
You did some serious scrounging this morning NYC, Thanks.

With the 12th pick, the Broncos select Knowshon Moreno - Roger Goodell
That'll move the chains - Andy Samberg

by KaptainKirk on Jun 2, 2009 7:11 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

NYC has added years to my life.

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 3, 2009 2:49 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great newsfeed as usual NYC. You complete my morning!

I can’t wait until the season to see which MSM pundits will eat their hats.

by bodieiscool on Jun 2, 2009 7:38 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Boncos: 2 Championships, 2 HOFers

Dolts: 0 Championships, 7 HOFers.

I knew this…and yet hearing it again just gives me heartburn. Ugh.

Thanks for tracks, NYC. Much appreciated, as always. :-)

"From the get-go, we targeted a certain type of player: tough, smart, competitive, versatile, a good person that loves football and wants to win." -Coach McDaniels

by Colorado_Kitten on Jun 2, 2009 8:14 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

That will always boggle my mind.

Obviously the voters still have a few things to learn.

GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!

NBA Finals: Lakers v. Magic. Game 1 June 4th

by weazel on Jun 2, 2009 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

As always, NYC for the hard work. I love the fact that I can come here and have a page like this, where I, like Kirk, can decide that there’s nothing really I want to read today.

I think we’d better call the waaaaambulance for those worried about getting “needled”. This is football, there’s no crying in football!!

by AllBroncsallday on Jun 2, 2009 10:07 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Tarkenton on...
“I think he has been a great flamboyant quarterback, but he has made more stupid plays than any great quarterback I have ever seen.’’

Remind you of anyone we know?

by Velveeta on Jun 2, 2009 11:33 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

marshall..

I saw some insider article headline said something about marshall to the bears… does anyone have any insight into what the article itself said and how much speculation rather than fact it contains?

thanks =)

by Todd Jewell on Jun 2, 2009 12:02 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

don't think so

The Bears don’t have any 1st round picks to give us until 2011. I’d think we’d start a bidding war in the NFC East and/or South if this was going to happen.

Can you imagine the conniption if BMarsh also gets traded? crikey

by CoastalBronco on Jun 2, 2009 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Might just be that the Chi media here

have started drooling over the idea of snagging Brandon when his contract runs out next season. Though I think if all goes well (e.g., no more arrests!!), the Broncos will just give him his extension before then, or worst case, franchise him.

by tunga77 on Jun 2, 2009 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wishful thinking

By the Chi media, who while fully in the thrall of their shiny new QB, seem to get they’ve got nobody for him to throw the ball to.

Wishes, hopes, and dreams.

by AllBroncsallday on Jun 2, 2009 2:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comment on media criticism

Rather than post directly below anyone’s comments let me make some general comments here;

I’m against personal attacks, since they don’t accomplish much, but any comment that cites as ‘fact’ defamatory and/or libelous claims is likely to be responded to by me. I’m not posturing when I say that I’d be happy to read any argument someone has to support their viewpoint, but a common argumentative technique has been to allude to “problems” which are themselves inferred from libelous claims.

I certainly endeavor to be polite but if the point of someone’s post is to frame the issue by relying on false claims then I’m going to point out their error. And this applies to posts here as well as articles in the MSM. The passage of time doesn’t ‘heal’ the problem of relying on dubious information and making illegitimate inferences based on that information, so saying that one would like to leave the issue behind doesn’t mean anything if it’s only a pretext for re-inserting a libelous claim later on.

Even though many here have tired of hearing about Cutler, I’d like to see someone actually try to support his claims. The general tendency seems to be to resist a determination of facts, which then provides cover for insisting that certain claims are true because the facts have yet to be determined or are in dispute. This argumentative technique is like the “teach the controversy” or “wedge” approach used by the Discovery Institute, whose goal is to have Intelligent Design taught alongside the theory of Evolution in science classes. In essence, it uses the fact that there is an argument itself as justification for teaching non-scientific points of view on the theory of evolution. However, the goal of the wedge approach is avoid a scientific argument in a common arena in which disputes can be resolved. Curiously, much of Cutler’s position during his dispute with the team resembles this approach. He claimed to have a dispute (which is impossible to deny since it’s self evident) whereas the team offered to resolve the dispute. Cutler’s claim of a dispute was in turn used by him to argue that the problem was unsolvable.

The argumentative technique of referring to all “problems” as problems caused by the team is invalid. Players, and their agents, are quite capable of causing problems with a team solely on their own. Much of the criticism of the Broncos’ so-called mistakes lately hides behind a veil of vagueness rather than make explicit, concrete claims. This strategy prevents any factual determination from being made on the issue, while at the same time purporting to avoid the issue because of it’s ostensibly unresolvable nature.

"The news and the truth are not the same thing." - Walter Lippmann

by Colinski on Jun 3, 2009 4:35 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

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