NEW NFP POST: Getting back to basics on Defense

by Broncobh on Jun 23, 2009 9:37 AM MDT Comment 39 comments

"Can one player have an impact on a defense that was as bad as the Broncos were last year? That’s a fair question. Certainly, Ayers is expected to provide an upgrade, but the Broncos need to get back to basics. They must get good on defense in one area -- the red zone -- before their defense can be impactful."

Lombardi "The challenge for head coach Josh McDaniels and defensive coordinator Mike Nolan is not to improve the overall defense but to become proficient in one area -- the red zone.

They need to overload their team with every situation it will see in the red area, making them “game ready” as soon as possible.

The ability to hold teams to field goals will a determining factor in their success this year on defense."

"Teams will move the ball on the Broncos because they’re a work in progress on defense. They have too many new parts, new schemes and new players. Their challenge will be to remain disciplined, keep the scheme simple, keep working on the same fundamentals and principles and, most important, run what they practiced all summer. "

My Analysis: I could not agree more - There will be an overall improvement in the defense. The improvement of the coverage secondary will lead to "Coverage Sacks", Dawkins and Hill will decrease the number of big plays allowed, forcing opposing offenses to grind out their offensive drives. The longer the drives the greater percentage opportunity for the Broncos defense to capitalize on mistakes = Turnovers.

But the defense will have a major impact on the success of the Broncos season, if they can become a "Shut-Down Defense" in the Red Zone.

Your thoughts??

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

5 recs | Comment 39 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Lombardi is spot on...

..IMO. This is going to be a Joe Collieresque bend-but-don’t-break defense…but imagine facing 3rd and 8 from the twelve with Ayers and Doom slobbering at you from the edges while you have to find a hole in a secondary with the veteran savvy of Bailey, Dawkins, Goodman, Hill and two young playmakers like Smith and McBath. I bet these guys are among the top of the league in the red zone and third and medium/long by season’s end.

I am an idiot walking a tightrope of fortune and fame
I am an acrobat swinging trapezes through circles of flame
If you've never stared off in the distance, then your life is a shame
and though I'll never forget your face,
sometimes i can't remember my name.
--Counting Crows, "Mrs. Potter's Lullaby"

by PredominantlyOrange on Jun 23, 2009 9:58 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

It is certainly a factor

I hope we can keep teams out of the red zone more then we did last year and I hope we can hold teams to 3 more often when they do get in. Stopping the run better will contribute to both things.

If we give teams too many chances in the red zone though the law of averages will catch up and we’ll give up too many points.

by Lisa FB on Jun 23, 2009 10:06 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

true...that one guy said it best...

what can happen will happen. or something to that effect. The best way to keep opponents from scoring is simple, don’t let them get into the red zone in the first place.

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jun 23, 2009 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

This defense though they haven't played together quite possibly be called,

“The Monsters of the Front Range”…Orange Crush III…We’ve seen the Oranrge Crush, The No Names, Monsters of the Midway, Purple People Eaters, Fearsome Foursome, and such…People may well be saying, “Who are these guys”?

by bfree2bronc on Jun 23, 2009 10:44 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Discipline

IMO, this is the one area in which the defense can, and MUST, improve this season, and not just in the red zone. Discipline in making a solid tackle. Discipline in being where you’re supposed to be. Discipline in knowing your role, and playing that role to the best of your ability. If the defense can do that, I believe they will be decent. Probably not great yet…but they don’t need to be great. Just solid.

The defense will give up yards and points…all defenses do. All it will take is getting off the field on 3rd down occasionally, cutting back on the big plays, and being a little more opportunistic with turnovers (but I believe that last point is a result of being more disciplined). Just slow the other team down a bit more.

And all of that is assuming that this year’s offense is better able to run time off the clock and control the game from their side, which I believe will be the case.

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on Jun 23, 2009 10:48 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with the emphasis on discipline

which is something I’ve heard McDaniels say in general about all of his players — that he wants smart, versatile players who know what they’re supposed to do in any given situation, and do it.

We’re also starting to see some of that work ethic/discipline reflected in the voluntary activities the players are attending — 20 going to run the stairs at Red Rocks. Anyone else notice the wheelbarrow walks up the stands? You gotta be motivated and disciplined to be willing to do that when you don’t have to.

Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.

by BShrout on Jun 23, 2009 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Execution

HoosierTeacher likes to make the point that the game isn’t necessarily about who’s scheme is better, but instead about who can execute their plan better.

Over the last couple of years, there are only a few games I can think of that made me think “this Denver team is executing well.” In general, there have been elements in all phases of the game that have made me groan (poor tackling and assignment discipline on defense, poor special teams in general, and an offense that had talent but only rarely seemed to control the pace of the game).

Thinking a little more about it, I think discipline and execution of responsibilities will be THE story of the season for Denver (at least for me…I’m sure other storylines will show up more often…bold prediction, I know). It will be a tough thing for me to watch, so I’m hoping to record all Broncos games for later review (I can’t be analytical during a live game…emotions run a bit to high…I wouldn’t make it as a coach).

If all three phases of the game show up, fill their roles, and execute the plan, Denver will surprise a lot of people. Some big IFs there, but I havent seen a change for the better the past few years, and I like the current coaching staff’s approach thus far. Thus, I am optimistic.

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on Jun 23, 2009 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

great points

Over the last couple of years, there are only a few games I can think of that made me think "this Denver team is executing well."

I totally agree. And there were times when I felt like the plan itself, even if executed properly, was flawed. At times it seemed like The Mastermind was taking his self-scouting reports too seriously and was too focused on being unpredictable. There’s a reason why so many teams often run on third-and-1: It works.

Back to the Lombardi’s position, I don’t agree with him. I think the biggest difference will be the additions of Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill. Our safeties have been horrible since Nick Ferguson got hurt. Dawkins’ experience will add a stability to the defense that the Broncos haven’t enjoyed since Lynch and Ferguson were both healthy. And that was a pretty good defense.

But who will guard the guards themselves?

by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Jun 24, 2009 8:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

They run on 4th and 1, too

I know that nycbroncosfan has mentioned a couple of times that there are stats regarding this and that going for it rather than going with a FG (and I’m ONLY talking about this decision) can be a bad decision. I remember Elway being absolute money on that – his QB sneak was one of the best of all time. 4th and 1 was generally a gimme, and that give us such confidence and real ability.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 24, 2009 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The safety upgrade is huge.

by NedBronco on Jun 25, 2009 7:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Repetition

I think Lombardi’s statement regarding “overloading” the team means that coaches should go over the red zone defense over and over and over. I know I’m getting it wrong, but I read a quote somewhere that amateurs practice to learn and professionals practice so they can’t do it wrong. Repetition instills discipline and inspires execution. The most important stage for next year is NOW and training camp. (an aside: That’s why I am so disappointed with Marshall.)

I enjoy teaching dance. Amateurs invariably are “counting” the beats and thinking about their next move. Professionals “feel” the music and execute seamlessly. But they didn’t become professionals without going through the amateur stage and putting in hours and hours of repetition.

by Endzone on Jun 25, 2009 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with Lombardi's take

they’re a work in progress on defense.

BDawk, will help in Red Zone and 3rd down situations with his leadership, which has been missing since Al Wilson had to retire. With the other FA’s and recent draft picks, as well as, the new coaches and repositioning of players to positions where they can actually help the team, we will have a more balancedDefense this year.

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra

by KaptainKirk on Jun 23, 2009 10:51 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Lombardi

He poses two questions:

1. Can One Player make a difference?
2. Can the Broncos improve in the red zone?

No one player will ever completely change a team, but it can’t hurt to have a player who makes an impact. I can only wait and see what Ayers will do. Frankly I think Ronald Fields and BDawk will have a bigger impacts. I know it’s only a gut reaction, but I also think Chris Baker is going to make the team. I also like the upside of Carlton Powell (who we have yet to see play in a game).

What disturbed me the most last year was the poor coaching. How many times I saw players out of position and WAAYYY off the receivers. That, to me, is bad coaching. Both safeties, Dre Bly, and Nate Webster were disasters. The team has, IMHO, upgraded the coaching AND player positions. They will, without any doubt, cumulatively improve the Broncos. Don’t forget that the Defense suffered tremendously after Champ was injured.

Can the Broncos improve in the red zone? Absolutely! Other teams threw or ran to our safeties, Dre Bly or Nate last year. We have a new scheme (coaching) and players. My only question is whether the Broncos will have a better pass rush because I am convinced we will have a better run defense and pass defense. We were 27th against the run, 26th against the pass, and 26th in sacks (pass rush) last year. Granted that a pass rush also includes pressuring the quarterback, but hey…bottom line was we still sucked.

The Broncos lacked an effective running game last year, in large part due to injuries but also due to pass playcalling. Keeping the ball from the other team is always a key to rested and effective defenses. Again, I am convinced our run game will be much improved this year.

Finally, the only area of the team that I am nervous about is our Special Teams. I’m not sure what effect the new rules will have. I saw players out of position and arm tackling last year far too often. I wish we had a great returner like Devon Hester, but we don’t (unless you REALLY want Eddie Royal back there). It looks like we added some great prospects for special teams in the draft. McD seems content with our kickers.

As Lombardi said, “Their challenge will be to remain disciplined, keep the scheme simple, keep working on the same fundamentals and principles and, most important, run what they practiced all summer”

Kudos to Lombardi for a good MSM article!

by Endzone on Jun 23, 2009 11:41 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

P.S.

Not to diminish coaching and players, but what really started our Super Bowl wins was Terrell Davis putting that massive hit on Special Teams in the preseason. So, I’d like to add that EMOTION plays a critical role too. Last year it looked like the defense was just laying down emotionally. Terrell Davis and team had tremendous emotion those years.

by Endzone on Jun 23, 2009 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with the idea that opposing offenses will be able to move the ball on us. I think they’ll be able to score on us too. The key to me is turnovers. We have to force turnovers to win games and be a successful team this year. That’s going to take a lot of gambling and we’re going to give up some big plays; however, if they can force turnovers they’ll be better than last year. Teams could move the ball and score on us last year and we rarely got turnovers.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Jun 23, 2009 2:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

too right

I think it’s too early in the process to expect this defense to be dominant in any situation, so turnovers will be absolutely critical in order to win games.

by Velveeta on Jun 23, 2009 5:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is one way of looking at it

another is that the style of defense we are building gets more dangerous the closer it gets to its own goalline. So the more success an offense has against it, the better the chances that the defense can be successful…. sounds crazy, I know, but does anyone understand what I’m saying?

Contrast it to the Coyer ‘show-blitz’ scheme, where the defense is more dangerous between the 20’s and at the beginnings of drives. The longer the drive went, the less effective the defense got.

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2009 2:21 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

willing to do a post on the difference?

I think I might think to understand but more thinking and understanding would be nice too.

More offense by the bad guys means better Def by the good guys?

Our defense improves when the field is short because it plays to the vertical strength of the 3-4/5-2 as the horizontial is naturally shorter on deep drives. But then are you saying that the FG is a win for a Def that gave up a 60 yard drive because the Off didn’t score a TD in the RedZone?

Bronco Learning Curve

"I don’t want to lose any time... I don’t want the team thinking I’m a money-first guy. I’m here to play football and to win. Money is secondary." Robert Ayers
"I’m still around .... I might just do it for my own well-being. I don’t get no bonuses for it, I’m just doing it because this is what I do." Doom
"He can throw a fastball, he can throw a touch ball, he throws an awesome deep ball" Brandon Lloyd on K.O.

by sbhchawk on Jun 24, 2009 7:05 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

That would be a great post, guys!

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 24, 2009 10:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Bronco defense...

…will work the way defenses worked against the Broncos offense last year. They’ll give up a ton of yards between the 20’s and then the make the red zone and passing downs more confusing than a Woody Paige column. And I think you are extacly right styg— these guys will ultimately live on forced mistakes and playmaking.

I don’t think opposing teams are going to like the redzone or obvious passing downs at all. Those are going to be really dangerous situations for opponents. The question will be— can Fields and crew up front be good enough to force these situations with the necessary regularity.

by PredominantlyOrange on Jun 24, 2009 8:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I understand you.

It is to be hoped that we don’t get pushed to our own goal line, but the further our defense is backed up, the more danger it presents (like a coiled spring or a cornered snake).

For me, I take two things from the article.

1) No, we aren’t looking at one player making a difference. Ayers? He may or may not have an impact, but we have many other players that are new too (Dawkins, Goodman, Hill, Fields, Davis,just to name a few on defense).

2) Simplicity IS the key. I went to a lot of seminars, and got to learn a lot of wonderful things as a defensive coordinator. But one of my areas of focus was to keep things simple, execute the basics perfectly, and not to outhink myself. When you have a team that plays the basics better than the other team, you really don’t need fancy plays or exotic techniques. When the coach has to start trying to win a game instead of letting his players do it, he is probabaly losing and hasn’t been doing the coaching when it really matters (which is during practices). When everything clicks, you can just call in simple plays, and let the players run over the other team. (When two well trained teams clash, coaching can perhaps tip the scale).

“Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard”

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 24, 2009 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also....

When the coach has to start trying to win a game instead of letting his players do it, he is probabaly losing and hasn’t been doing the coaching when it really matters (which is during practices).

One of the most telling points in the article, to me, was the mention of practicing a scheme all through the reloading season, then basically throwing it out during the season, wasting all the time you spent installing it. Discipline to stick with it long enough to see it to fruition. Last year, the Broncos flat out abandoned their defensive scheme by week 4. In retrospect, this is absolutely NUTS! I know they weren’t having much success on defense, but to completely trash all the work in the reloading season making changes from Bates to Slowik jsut makes NO SENSE! Didn’t the Miami coach (Sporano?) come from the Belichik/Parcells tree as well? You have to believe this kind of stick-to-it-iveness is a basic part of their philosophy so it would be ingrained in McD as well.

This is what we wanted...
Hey, look what we got!

by pubkeeper on Jun 24, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. I'll even go a step further.

Yes; giving up after 4 weeks was silly. But I think we even gave up on Bates too early. We dropped a safety into the box (and that even continued into the following year), and never fully transitioned into the Bates program. It will always look like a disasterous year for the defense (’07), but we have a long track record of giving up on defensive coaches well before their systems are fully in place.

I hope the current group gets at least two years (and more like 3 or 4) to prove their stuff.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 24, 2009 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

Thanks for the thoughts, HT

It has seemed like the option of improving on a problematic situation didn’t exist – Off with their heads! The Red Queen would have loved that time period ;-)

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 24, 2009 10:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Problem with last years D

I don’t consider myself a fan but a long time follower of Broncos. talking Broncos was the only way I could have a relationship with my father. Hope you guys aren’t like that.

problem with D was not front as MSM claim but coaching. DP had an article on CB saying the coaches changes the D so much it wasn’t able to get an identity.

was coaches inability to assess talent. MSM likes to claim how Denver D is less talented because of all the “starters” that are no longer with the team. But the other 31 teams are not busting down the doors to add them to their teams even as backups. Also other than Doom wasn’t the most effective DL Peterson the last two years? Wasn’t Crowder one of the most effective DL two years ago? Why didn’t he play last year?

was poor play of safeties and MLB. If safties aren’t part of run D why did Atwater hit Okoye. Sorry to the fans that love Barrett. He has all the physical tools to be a great player but until he proves himself, he’s just a practice squad player IMO.

Bowlen: “So Shanny you didn’t make the playoffs. What are you going to do about that.”

Shanny: “I’m going to fire the DC”

Bowlen: "You’re going to fire the DC every year you don’t make playoffs? Shanny I think we need to go in a new direction. You’re fired.

by 3nS on Jun 25, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice

I think you summarized the situation very well.

+ The coaching. And too frequent change of coaching staff. (I would add quality of coaches)
+ The players. And not playing the ones with ability. Shanny should have kept Larsen at MLB instead of Webster.
+ Poor play. You nailed it. It wasn’t the line, it was the safeties and MLB.

by Endzone on Jun 25, 2009 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

MLB

I still stand by my assessment that Niko should have started t MLB coming out of camp. He wasn’t picking it up as quickly as might have been desired, but he wasn’t making boneheaded mistakes either. He was jsut too tentative, too careful.

He is at MLB for TB this year, so that bears an occasional glance and comparison….

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 25, 2009 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Part of poor coaching

is poor evaluation of what’s happening on the field. I have to wonder if Niko’s performance wasn’t downgraded sometimes when he stayed home covering his gap and forced the play to go elsewhere? And I wonder if Webster got too much credit for tearing across the savannah in pursuit of glory, leaving his gap uncovered and presenting the runner with an opportunity to cut back? If bad behavior is rewarded (because the coach fails to realize it’s bad behavior) it persists and spreads, and that’s poor coaching. How often did we see Webster praised at Niko’s expense because at least he was “trying to make plays?”

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jun 26, 2009 9:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

tearing across the savannah in pursuit of glory

hehe. Stompling the Veldt? Nibbling the buds?

My new nickname for Webster: “Love Rhino” (Kudos to all who get the reference.)

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 26, 2009 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not just DC's...

…but look also at the players that seemed to be developing nicely (Crowder and Peterson are both great examples) that were all the sudden gone. Dominique Foxworth comes to mind. Reggie Heyward, Monte Reagor, Kelly Herndon…lots of guys who were better than their replacements were shown the door. They all had very nice years/careers elsewhere.

Its nothing that can ever be proven, but I got the idea at the end that there was more to executing on the field to being a Shannahan guy. Something totally unrelated to the field. I started to wonder if you got on his bad side somehow…you were gone no matter what you brought to the field. Or worse, if he liked you, you didn’t have to compete. I give you the dependable but underwhelming Jon Engleberg and Nate Jackson as examples.

Obviously, there is the evaluation process and the scheme and all that to consider. But Shannahans personnel moves the last few years make you wonder what exactly he valued. I think if you were low maitanence, low keyed, and easy to manage, you had a disportionate advantage. The only time he broke this mode is to roll the dice on talented but high risk veterans like Travis Henry.

I think he lost sight of the ball in the end…and we saw it across the whole football operation….

by PredominantlyOrange on Jun 25, 2009 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

3ns

I agree with your first point. In ‘08, we didn’t stick with anything in terms of system. I also agree with 2.

But I might differ a little on 3. How can the safeties do much, when only one is in deep zone trying to cover the entire field? I thought the coaches badly misused our safeties (as well as everyone else).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 25, 2009 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

DLine

I also thought the safeties were misused and played poorly. They should not be put in the box and therefore the occasional “Atwater hit on Okoye” should be a rarity.

I’m curious, HT. Was our DLine really that bad? Or was it more the linebacker players and coaching? (I fall into the safeties problems camp).

by Endzone on Jun 25, 2009 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Atwater v. Okoye

you guys seem to think that Atwater was playing in the box when he made that hit. Go watch the play. Atwater was lined up at the typical safety position 7-10 yards off the line. Okoye was through the line and about 4 yards past when Atwater came up and hit him. Atwater was playing “Safety” the way it shoudl be – as the last line of defense.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 26, 2009 2:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you know that Shanny was going to KEEP Slowik for 2009? I think that was the straw that boke th camels back for Mr. Bowlen.

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Jun 26, 2009 7:20 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Completely agree, HT

Obviously the Bates experiment was the beginning of the end for Shanny. Just to drive home your point about giving up on him too early: I recall that before that season had ended wishing they had held on to Gerard Warren because he was way more effective as a penetrating DT than anyone they had left on the roster…. before that season had even ended!!! Before they switched away from Bates scheme, they had gotten rid of the guys who could play Slowik’s scheme.

Basically, he/they went all in and then folded before they finished the hand.

This is what we wanted...
Hey, look what we got!

by pubkeeper on Jun 25, 2009 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs