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MSM Nonsense and the Inner Ring of MHR


It seems like every "Horse Tracks," there is some eminent football philosopher stating in great detail just how doomed the Broncos are in 2009.  On one hand, I can understand their point of view.  They are not fans of the team they are reporting on, so they are not likely to have our bias (which hopefully does not border on irrationality).  Also, to state the opposite viewpoint (or, for that matter, even a nuanced cautiously optimistic one) would put them in the extreme minority of their colleagues.  It takes a man a strong character and erudition to accomplish that feat.  So, the deck is already stacked against them anyway-- not because they are of weak character or low intelligence (although there are some who cause me to question my charity on this point), but because by definition an exemplary person is not a statistically frequent occurence.  Further, I wonder if we all appreciate just how taxing and demanding the job of reporting on the entire NFL (or, best-case-scenario, an entire division) can be.  Sure, you can do your research, but ask HoosierTeacher or BroncoBear how long that takes them for just one team, and one they already have a passion for and a vested interest in championing.  I've often heard friends of mine-- and I've joined them-- grumble that sportswriters have the best and easiest job in the world and they would do anything to get it.  If you'll pardon the analogy, like wanting to be a male porn star, one should be careful what one wishes for.  This will stand as my attempt now and in the future at a charitable interpretation of the pundits, talking heads, and MainStreamMedia (MSM to the MHR newbies) personalities.

And now, having laid that foundation, I want to put flesh to my criticism of them.  I have followed many others on this site by referring to "the MSM" and "MSM nonsense," without fully explicating what that is.  I want to rectify that omission now by exposing exactly what the MSM is preaching, and why it is faulty.  I feel the necessity of this because I want to avoid MHR and its readership using the phrase "MSM" as a negative mantra, which we can invoke against the infidels those who speak negatively against the Broncos, without really having any substance behind it.  As C. S. Lewis, a British theologian and philosopher described it, the "Inner Ring" is a powerful allure, full of "the delicious sense of secret intimacy" and "delightful intimacies and confidentialities."  I hope to avoid the appearance of this veneer by opening the door to all those not in the MHR "Inner Ring".

Star-divide

 This is the MSM mantra, with varying shades of grey:

New head coach Josh McDaniels sauntered into Dove Valley, full of confidence in his own abilities and pedigree.  Almost immediately, he proceeded to clean house top to bottom, removing fan favorites and long-term mainstays as well as bringing in pet projects of his own from New England.  This alienated many in the fan base as well as in the locker room, and the whole situation culminated in the Broncos' star quarterback, leader of 2008's 2nd-best offense, feeling as if his job was not being sufficiently protected.  Rather than assuage his fears, McDaniels clumsily refused to acknowledge Cutler's job security and role on the team in an effort to instill the belief in his players that he was the supreme football authority in town.  The situation blew up in his face, and he was forced to watch his franchise quarterback walk out the door.

During the draft, McDaniels did little to make things better.  Thinking he knew more than everyone else, he only put 100 players on his draft board and picked whoever was at the top, willfully ignoring glaring needs elsewhere on his team in order to get players he liked.  Along the way, he made several highly controversial and nearly unprecedented moves, such as trading away a likely top-10 pick in next year's draft for an undersized cornerback and not drafting a punishing nose tackle.  Though some college free agents were signed after the draft, they are little more than scrubs who will provide depth without providing the necessary radical high-profile overhaul to last year's 30th-ranked defense.

Now, Josh McDaniels is on the hot seat without having ever played a single game.  He is staring down with one of the top 5 WR talents in the NFL, who is talking as if he is already out the door.  First the downgrade from Cutler to Orton, then the bizarre draft, and finally the refusal to play a star the money he is due, Josh McDaniels has shown himself to be Bill Belichick's disciple through and through, and he will only continue to repeat the (un)success of former Belichick brances Romeo Crennel and Eric Mangini.  At worst, he has shown himself to be a rookie, often making decisions with all the appearance of throwing a dart at a board.  It is likely the Broncos will go 2-14 in 2009, and if that happens there will be a lot of people in Denver pining for Mike Shanahan.

 Note to avoid confusion: the above is my personal summary, blockquoted for visual ease only

There are several points in here to refute, but my mission here is to list them all and direct whomever reads this (hopefully someone from the MSM ranks) to an exemplary article from an MHR member (often staff, but sometimes we mere members strike gold as well).  So, without further ado:

1. Josh McDaniels is a Belichick clone/disciple

  • Made reference to many times by the MSM, but never fully step-by-step discussed on MHR.  Probably because it isn't worth dignifying.  For the purposes of argument, I'll do so here briefly.  This charge is usually based on one (or more) of four errors:
    1. Incorrect facts (i.e., "JMcD and Belichick both run star players out of town")
    2. Unsupportable subjective evaluations of personality (i.e., "JMcD and Belichick are both arrogant, egotistical, etc.")
    3. Overgeneralization from actual similarities (i.e., "JMcD and Belichick both tend to refuse speculation, focus on truisms about football, and have clear boundaries with the media regarding what they won't talk about.  Therefore, they are alike in every significant respect")
    4. Ad hominem non sequitors (i.e., "JMcD is guilty by association in virtue of being from the Belichick coaching tree)

2. Josh McDaniels ran Jay Cutler out of town (or, JMcD bears the brunt of the responsibility)

3. The Cutler trade was ill-advised and will turn out poorly for the Broncos

4. The Broncos' 2009 draft was unusually unpleasant

5. The Brandon Marshall situation is McJaygate, part 2

6. Josh McDaniels is making many rookie mistakes, possibly because he is in way over his head

And finally, just because it's so darn good, Hoosierteacher's big picture for 2009.  You'll never hear any one MSM author make even three of the points HT does, let alone see the entire big picture with intelligence and a complete absence of orange-and-blue colored glasses (HT's been on record for a .500 or only slightly better season).  In the category of overall quality, I would also place bowma101's excellent post about building a team the Bronco way.

 

 

All in all, I think that there is much on this site I wish the MSM would read and consider honestly.  I also wish they would be much less in love with their own supposed penchant for wordplay or clever phrasing, but I digress.  Since it's bad form to simply criticize without offering a solution, here is my solution:

I want a mainstream media that acknowledges its limitations, and does not tout its personnel as "experts"; rather, I want to hear from well-connected and well-informed journalists.

I want a mainstream media that delegates authority appropriately, and does not put an unfair burden on its personnel by asking them to be experts/well-informed regarding 32 NFL teams and their numerous liaisons.

I want a mainstream media that is accountable.  I want clear metrics in place and advertised for the hiring and retention of journalists, and those standards enforced.

I want a mainstream media that is relevant.  Age alone is no detriment, but moribund attitudes and distaste for nearly all present players/systems/philosophies is a detriment.

I want a mainstream sports media that has more facts and less opinion, or at least a clear demarcation between the two.

I want a mainstream media that respects and values the insights of its lesser-publicized brethren, rather than becoming more hidebound and fear-driven because of declining print readership.

I have a dream.  It's a little silly, but I like it.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

32 recs  |  Comment 58 comments

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Great post man!

What we want and what we are going to get are two wholly different things. Much like what we want out of the people we vote for. We expect true reform or change we can believe in, but all we get is the same old crap with a slightly different spin on it. lol

Highly rec’d

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on Jun 25, 2009 5:23 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the rec

And yes, disillusionment and apathy can set in. But that’s when it’s absolutely certain that nothing will change. In fact, it’s probably certain they’ll get worse.

I gave up hope a good while ago, but I’d like to never give up the fight

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 25, 2009 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blurring the Lines

This isn’t something unique to sports journalism: turn on any “news” outlet and your likely to see the lines blurred among three categories: factual reporting, opinion, and entertainment.

I like all three of those elements…but not always at the same time, and I like to know which is which. Sharpe, I share your dream. Definitely rec’d.

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on Jun 25, 2009 6:04 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

True

And perhaps I’m being unfair to shine the spotlight on them so singularly.

Still, I can’t shake the feeling that there is a distinct qualitative difference between what happens at Yahoo Sports and what happens at CNN. Even if I can’t clearly delineate what that is.

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 25, 2009 7:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

WOW!

May I say superb and recommended. I have nothing to add of substance except may your wishes come true.

by Ponderosa on Jun 25, 2009 6:08 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Power to the people! :)

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 25, 2009 7:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a great analysis

However – I didn’t write the disputation of The Jay Cutler Trade. Hoosierteacher did, and it’s a very fine article, no question. Thanks however, for the links to my other articles and to all of those from the many other writers. Fine work from all!

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 25, 2009 7:18 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the catch, Bear!

Corrected and properly attributed.

Sorry, there were a lot of links to go through! :-/

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 25, 2009 7:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

See above

Also fixed now.

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 25, 2009 7:31 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a problem

That was a very good compilation and the points were valid

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 26, 2009 5:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd just because you joined on my birthday!

I kid, I kid, this post deserved a Rec anyway.

"Call me a cannibal!"

by Tempestuous Binary on Jun 25, 2009 7:22 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You're a cannibal

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 25, 2009 7:46 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha.

Thank you. :p

"Call me a cannibal!"

by Tempestuous Binary on Jun 27, 2009 4:58 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice . Rec'd.

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Jun 25, 2009 7:48 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post Sharpe

I especially love the solution at the end. It should be a mantra for the MSM on how approach credible sports journalism. One of the big issues in the MSM is how quickly they have to absorb, process, and then project their views on teams’ moves. There’s such a high demand for instant analysis that I think the overall journalistic product suffers as a result. Most of the Broncos’ moves this off-season were not easily digestible, and only after I stepped back and looked at the big picture could I even get a grasp of the plan. Yet most of the MSM doesn’t have the luxury to wait and formulate their thoughts—they just have to churn out piece after piece.

Rec’d

by bowma101 on Jun 25, 2009 8:43 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

That is a great point

And one I would certainly add to the list in the post:

“I want a mainstream media that cares more about the quality of their analysis, rather than its timeliness. I want them to be proud of the fact that they are always the last to chime in on a story, because that time gained gives them perspective and experience no one else can claim”

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 26, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was an excellent article.

I had my doubts based on the title. (“Oh no. More of the same. Which I tend to agree, but which I grow weary of…”)

This was very good. I appreciated your best attempt at a paraphrase of the MSM mantra. As well as your refutation with with supporting links. The final bit, focusing on a solution, but in the languaging of personal ownership was compelling.

Thanks.

by NedBronco on Jun 25, 2009 9:39 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Right

It’s easy to simply dump on an adversary without really taking the time to get to know their position, and without providing a sustained and evidentiary critique. That’s the benefit I think I gained from waiting to post this until some time had passed. The comment immediately above shows how useful that would be if the MSM did the same.

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 26, 2009 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice consolidation of links

It was enjoyable to re-read some of the posts. I also liked your personal summary of MSM and the C. S. Lewis reference. Rec’d

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on Jun 25, 2009 9:50 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

And I like your Frankl quote!

I’m a counselor-in-training (one more year!), and I did my senior thesis in undergrad on humanistic-existential approaches to counseling and logotherapy in particular

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 26, 2009 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post

Your “MSM manta” was really well done.

"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton

by odarol on Jun 25, 2009 10:01 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I too, am a CS Lewis fan

That guy makes you think. This post does too. Rec’d

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra

by KaptainKirk on Jun 25, 2009 11:00 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Rec’d

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
Just click your heels together three times and say, "There's no player like Hillis... there's no player like Hillis."

by BroncTastic on Jun 26, 2009 8:01 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post

Rec’d

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jun 26, 2009 12:21 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

rec’d, rec’d, rec’d, rec’d……..rec’d

Bronco Learning Curve

"I don’t want to lose any time... I don’t want the team thinking I’m a money-first guy. I’m here to play football and to win. Money is secondary." Robert Ayers
"I’m still around .... I might just do it for my own well-being. I don’t get no bonuses for it, I’m just doing it because this is what I do." Doom
"He can throw a fastball, he can throw a touch ball, he throws an awesome deep ball" Brandon Lloyd on K.O.

by sbhchawk on Jun 26, 2009 7:04 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Respectful Disagreement

I like the way you put out your arguments, Sharpe.

My disagreement with your article is more a matter of degree and emphasis rather than substance.

Unlike many who report here, I do think Josh McDaniels has made some mistakes here in his rookie head coaching season. IMHO, I think he mishandled his communications with Jay Cutler and lost so much credibility with him that Cutler just wanted out of town (and in so doing acted in a very immature fashion, which he now admits.)

Worse, however, is that I think that we have never seen candor from McDaniels on that situation and that troubles me… I see new people come into organizations all the time, and often like here, they bring energy, but they also make mistakes. How you respond to a mistake you have made tells me a lot about a person and I have not seen enough of Josh McDaniels’ character to tell me if he has the ability to mature and take responsibility for mistakes or if he is a chip off of the old Belichik or Parcells block.

With respect to the draft, I think we will look on the 2009 draft as a very good one, and possibly a great one, but I do question some of his moves in the 2nd round as getting caught up in the gambling excitement of the draft. Three years from now, we will be able to determine if McDaniels used his choices wisely and has rebuilt the interior of the defense, either with existing resources, free agent pickups or the draft. I think I would have kept the two 1st round choices from next year, but he made a different gamble… and I think only history will tell us who is right on this.

Finally, I hope that McDaniels is smart enough to not implement a “My way or the highway kind of program” and instead is able to become flexible in adapting to the talent he has rather than trying to totally redo a team in a system he knows that may not work for Denver. Again, here my call is wait and see.

So, I don’t assert that he is a rookie in over his head, but I do have concerns about flexibility, maturity and working with what he has rather than junking everything for his own systems.

Let’s see how it plays out and let the games begin!

by Baltimore Bronco on Jun 26, 2009 8:43 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Fair points all around

Everyone makes mistakes, Josh McDaniels included. We may never know what was really said between McDaniels and Cutler; perhaps it was mis-handled by McDaniels, perhaps there was miscommunication on both sides, perhaps Jay was ready to go as soon as Shanahan was fired and Bates was not retained. Most likely, as you said, it’s the middle option.

Where we differ is in the apprehension of flexibilty and the ability to work with the talent you have. Many of the OTA reports (which, granted, are OTAs and padless) have had a common theme: the coaches are moving us around, using us in as many different roles as we can handle, seeing what works. The WRs are learning all the WRs spots, it seems like every DE on the roster is playing with a hand in the dirt AND standing up, and Hillis is being used just about everywhere (in fact, I think does Bowlen’s taxes between reps…) The defensive plan is to go with a 3-4, but only to the degree that it works. From the sounds of it, Denver will be able to run a 3-4, a 4-3, or a hybrid of the two…whatever is working the best. So, speaking only for myself, I’m not worried about McDaniels’ ability to best utilize the talent.

But your last point is still the best point going…the season can’t get here soon enough!

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on Jun 26, 2009 9:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Backlash V. Backlash

I think you have people over-compensating for the original negativity towards McD, which has caused some to over-compensate for the over compensation. In otherwords, I have no expectations of Josh MacDaniels being perfect. Nor do I think Josh MacDaniels is perfect. I don’t know that he pulled off a great draft. I just know that I like the big picture flavor of the draft. I don’t know that he put together a great team. But I don’t believe he inherited a great offense, much less a great team. I think the reality of the 2008 Broncos offense has been very nicely exposed at MHR.

Mostly, and I seem to be rare and caught between the MSM and MHR on this one, but I hardly see the 2009 offseason as some daunting point of no return. If the 2009 Denver Broncos win 8 games, they’ll be better than I expected them to be on December 28, 2008. If they win less, laying the entire blame at the feet of the new regime, IMO, smacks of the same homerish delusion that is used to mock MacDaniels supporters. Its just applied ad-hoc to Shannahan instead.

I guess there are some of us who could relate to your sentiment that this offseason has taken the shine off your team for you. The only difference is that my shine started fading weeks before Josh McDaniels even entered our collective consciousness. To me, the jury is still out big time on the new regime. Its never been about that. But they offer a new direction and a new philosophy as oppossed to one that didn’t appear to be working anymore. That I line up behind that with enthusiam doesn’t necessarily mean that I forgot all about football.

I am an idiot walking a tightrope of fortune and fame
I am an acrobat swinging trapezes through circles of flame
If you've never stared off in the distance, then your life is a shame
and though I'll never forget your face,
sometimes i can't remember my name.
--Counting Crows, "Mrs. Potter's Lullaby"

by PredominantlyOrange on Jun 26, 2009 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad you can maintain some perspective in the midst of your disagreement with some moves made

When researching this post, I ran across some fanposts (albeit in the heat of the moment) that were truly atrocious on both a logical level and a common standards of decency level.

This is not to change your mind, since your position is one I think is correct: Wait and see. However, I would offer as a possible alternative to some of your interpretations the suggestion that as casual fans we are in a very poor spot to see personal character from a head coach. This requires a post all its own to truly do it justice, but consider: is it appropriate to judge the media-controlled response of a head coach using a set of criteria derived from everyday interactions? I suspect this is somewhere behind your discomfort with McDaniels’ presentation (but I could be wrong).

Basically, what I want from a friend (or a coworker, or an acquaintance, etc.) is quite different from what I want from a head coach. And while the coach’s character is no doubt important and should be a critical factor, I have serious doubts as to whether I am in any epistemic position to have any opinions of any kind regarding the personal character of a man whom I have never met and whose interactions with me are (and quite possibly should be) highly impersonal, carefully controlled, and centered around a game that I watch for entertainment.

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 26, 2009 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Understood

Football coaches are a different breed. We may need less from them as consumers of football products than we do from other societal leaders. What is important in the coaches projection of character is that the players buy into his message.

That said, I think we make judgments regarding character of people in the public eye from even less epistemic data than we have seen from Josh McDaniels. He had plenty of opportunity in the Cutler situation to project his personality and it was not one admitting of a scintilla of doubt or acknowledgment that he could have handled things better. Old world coaches never admitted to a mistake, but I wonder whether that will carry the day in this new football world. I found “the player” press conference very distasteful and I wonder whether Bronco players did as well. Let’s see how he know handles the players who are supposedly his new team players and see if he ever accepts responsibility for errors or places them on his players. That is part of what I will be watching this Fall.

Please, let the games begin.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jun 27, 2009 11:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not A Peep

No player on the roster, including Marshall, has said a single negative word. Just the opposite!

I liked “the player” press conference because NO player is bigger than the team. Cutler was an immature ass. McDaniels did not need to express any remorse and displayed mature professionalism.

You have made a judgment about McDaniels based on what epistemic data exactly? Did you expect McDaniels, Xander and Bowlen to kiss his ass? Kiss your ass because he/they offended your boyfriend? You sound like Tyger or SBJay (see the SBNation Bears website fellow MHRers for really scary Cutler worship stuff) trolling for a Cutler compliment and trying (but pathetically failing) to show off how smart and important you are. Reading your comments (such as on the “Objectivity vs Kool-Aid” post) and comparing the prose makes me think you are the same person. And the one post wanting to “kill the coach”. Thank God that one was removed! You have been asked before for facts and specifics and NEVER have you offered any empirical facts or solutions. You insist that your view is legitimate…but it is not.

I, for one, am done with you! To the rest, please forgive me if you think I fed the troll.

by Endzone on Jun 28, 2009 1:29 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a troll

Regardless of past posts, this one (from BaltBronc) was cool-headed disagreement. I appreciate your fervor, but think it is misplaced and unfair in this circumstance

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 28, 2009 9:19 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Body of Work

Thank you Sharpe. I got worked up when I read other BB posts and got a flavor for the overall body of work. This one, as you say, was cool-headed (the circumstance) but the body of work (the context) bothers me.

by Endzone on Jun 28, 2009 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

For what it's worth

The last thing that you generally see in a head coach is a balanced, measured, humble personality. Oh, they exist – Tony Dungy is a wonderful example. But this is a job that cries out for someone who doesn’t share his inner thoughts with the media, who doesn’t really judge his own actions on what fans think and who gets off on working punishing, insane hours under tremendous stress. I have no doubt that McDaniels has discussed his mistakes with Pat Bowlen (and we have no idea what Pat was referring to in that single line from an interview, so let’s not take off on unsupported sagas) and he doesn’t owe anyone else a word on the subject.

Confidence, to a ridiculous level, is one of the traits of successful head coaches. I can’t reasonably ask McDaniels to show me anything else. He isn’t there to be some kind of example of proper interpersonal relationships. If he wins a lot, folks will suddenly like him just fine. If he’s outlandish and wins it will illicit more chuckles than frowns. He’s not a role model – he’s a head coach. The job requires a very unusual personality.

By the way, over time, I have thought that Baltimore has shown a certain perspective, but has been more than willing to both back it up and to consider other thoughts. Just because his perspective is different isn’t a decent reason to jump on him. This site supports civil discourse and debate – lets all keep it that way.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 28, 2009 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed completely

And that was the thrust of what I was aiming toward in my discussion with BB. I’m not sure what it would look like for a head coach to be transparent with his inner demons to me; I’m not sure what the fallout on a team-wide or a fandom-wide (or media-wide) scope would look like. I’m not sure that I would like it when and if I saw it.

You got it, Bear: not only is it improper to measure a head coach by interpersonal metrics, it is likely incorrect.

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 28, 2009 5:42 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Namecalling

Endzone, when you start calling other people names and use terms like “kiss your ass” or “troll,” you have ceased trying to communicate and you are just seeking to reinforce your own prejudices.. I have no idea what you are talking about on “kill the coach.” I do not talk or think like that.

I will continue to express my viewpoint with enthusiasm, especially when a few people like you try to denigrate subtle and partially contrary thought with using inflammatory adjectives and derogatory names instead of critiquing thought.. I enjoy and respect the people who express contrary views, acknowledge validity in differing views of others, and try to look forward to breaching our differences as a Bronco Nation.

I am sorry that you are done with me. I think you have simply decided that you don’t want to think when others may disagree with you. That is what you do when you start calling people names. It’s bullying and you acting contrary to the purpose of a comment board with trying to impose your viewpoint by using such tactics.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jun 28, 2009 3:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're Right

I overreacted. Please accept my sincere apologies. No excuses.

by Endzone on Jun 28, 2009 4:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too

I agree. Let’s not fight. I really do hope that I am wrong in my instincts. I support the Broncos and I want to like everything about them. Of course, I saw that some of the emotion, strategy and players were missing during the past few years. I think William’s’ death took a toll on everyone associated with the Broncos. Shanahan clearly guessed wrong with Javon Walker and Travis Henry.

My concern is that we not throw out the good moments of the past few years. I am an extremely loyal guy and when someone in the family has given me some pleasure, I try to focus on the good parts, not obsess about the bad. Jay Cutler gave us some good moments. Sure, we have had a divorce and Jay clearly played a part in it.. but I continue to admire the guy and especially his fighting through his diabetes.

Similarly, I want to like McDaniels… He is the coach of my favorite team. He is smart. He wants character players. As a parent, I think, the way you show character is by example. For me, admitting when I am wrong, even making fun of my mistakes, has meant a family that is even closer… Hell, my kids play ice hockey with me now, at my age 59 and they are in their 20’s. We fight hard to win, and we never give up. I have had my moments when I have gone to the penalty box for doing something stupid. So have they. Much better that we be candid with one another, then move on.

I see what people like in Josh McDaniels. There is definitely a plan. I have said what I would like to see from him. The true generals I admire are those with humility and grace. I think he may have it in him, I just have not see much of it yet…

and, again I could be wrong,

and, please, let the games begin.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jun 28, 2009 5:39 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

59 ... and counting

I just had my 59th too. And I’m counting the days til the games begin!

by Endzone on Jun 28, 2009 7:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

BB, I've directed opposing comments at you,...

…but for what its worth, you’re one of my favorite voices on MHR. I understand where you are coming from and respect that sincerely. I think the only real difference between you and I is that you were probably more excited about the Cutler Era than I was. Heck, I was excited about the Cutler part before he opened his mouth.

For what its worth, I’m far more of a ‘fly by the gut feeling’ type than most around here— and was completely of that bearing before I dicovered this place. I’m vibing good about McD, you’re vibing not so good about him, and either one of us will be right, or more likely, the McD reality will meet somewhere in between.

We can agree on the let the games again part.

I am an idiot walking a tightrope of fortune and fame
I am an acrobat swinging trapezes through circles of flame
If you've never stared off in the distance, then your life is a shame
and though I'll never forget your face,
sometimes i can't remember my name.
--Counting Crows, "Mrs. Potter's Lullaby"

by PredominantlyOrange on Jun 28, 2009 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you are right!

One thing good about aging is that my ego has diminished and I hope I am wrong on my instincts about McDaniels and that all of his moves turn out to be golden. I am a big fan of the Broncos and love their history. We both go a lot on instinct and I have communicated mine. Training camp may well change my view of things and so might a reaction to our first unexpected loss.

Let the games begin, soon.

Thanks for your nice comments also… I like all the people here and even the personal comments usually roll off my back. Its good that we are emotional about the Broncos, we all need to have passions in life beyond family and work.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jun 29, 2009 8:28 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baltimore Bronco, Endzone, and Predominantly Orange,

I love all of your posts, you project intelligence and knowledge of the Broncos in a way that I enjoy reading. Sometimes I read the comments and never say anything, mostly because what I would try to say was already said. Josh McDaniels will mature as a head coach in due time, he is young and we all make mistakes. I hope, and that is all I can do, is that he is successful, because it will ultimately benefit us all. 13-3 Baby!!!

by bfree2bronc on Jun 29, 2009 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+3

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."

by KaptainKirk on Jun 29, 2009 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awwww. Group hug everyone!

Just kidding.

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 29, 2009 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

Watch the fur, guys. Bear hugs can be kind of, er, oppressive…

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 29, 2009 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's more or less where I am.

There’s just to many uncertainties for me to forsee how things will play out. In addition to the MSM negativity I also observe the rose-tinted glasses phenomenon, like PredominantlyOrange is mentioning, which I’m sure exists with fans of any team, where every event and decision gets spinned in the best possible direction. Its tempting to think that McDaniels has a level of control and vision over the team that he probably doesn’t really have, which isn’t to say he isn’t doing a good job. There’s just so many factors to take into account and so many uncertainties and there’s nothing to do but speculate at this point. We shall see.

by Broncos2009 on Jun 26, 2009 10:45 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Very nice post!

But I think your dream is delusional and I mean no offense by that statement. I’ve made the comment before on this site, the MSM is a business and don’t ever forget it. They have a product to sell and will/do sink to the lowest common denominator to do so. Their market and product has biases, whether it’s geographic, demographic, what have you. The only way to find even an approximation of “truth” is to access multiple sources and synthesize some kind of working conclusion. In some ways, the current MSM group-think on the Broncs is fun if only because it feeds our us vs. them mentality and gives us plenty to both consider and talk about in these months prior to the season. The bottom line is that until they put on the pads and start popping people, all of it, both rose-colored glasses or “they’re doomed” is idle speculation. Once again, nice post – you write well. Go Broncs!

It's "just" football

by Donkhead on Jun 26, 2009 2:59 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post Tack and rec'd.

I also wish the mainstream media would or could have an unbiased view of our team, when it is witnessed they formed opinions of greatness for other teams that are not true. One point the author wrote; The Broncos had the 2nd best offense in the league. In stats only. We were actually 16th in the league with points, and it is points that win games, not stats.

by bfree2bronc on Jun 26, 2009 10:32 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Media = Advertising

Thank you for the incredibly well-reasoned and written post. When I think of the “MSM” (and not only sports-writing) I think of a the George Carlin quote-

 “People think of television as a news and entertainment medium. It is not. It is an advertising medium which uses news and entertainment to sell products.”

As the internet MSM moves closer and closer to a television model (as far as being ad-supported), the news and entertainment become ever more intertwined with the ultimate goal of selling.

Think of Horse Tracks. Although we all argue vehemently against the arguments of the MSM, we still read their articles and therefore support their advertisers. ESPN.COM is a great example. They have simply moved their existing television model, intended to gain viewers and thereby indirectly sell products, to their website. They are much more concerned with causing reactions, and therefore gaining readers/ viewers, than with reporting. And on the the internet front, as their “ethical” obligation to report becomes further and further skewed towards accumulating page hits, they become much more concerned with providing constant bits of “analysis” which provoke a reaction either for or against. Either way, people continue to flock to the sites, and the advertisers continue to hawk their wares.

by MGM on Jun 27, 2009 5:49 AM MDT reply actions   2 recs

You talk of advertising as if it's a bad thing...

If it weren’t for ESPN, I’d never have heard of Tom Emanski — much less own his Baseball instructional DVDs.

Oh. And ShamWow? Two words: Sham wow!

by JeffG on Jun 27, 2009 7:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

And being LARGER? Well… that was kinda fun, too.

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on Jun 27, 2009 10:21 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sharpe,

Please forgive me for taking so long to get to your post. Excellent points all around, and very highly rec’d.

I rarely get carried away feeling “great” or “terrible” after reading a post. I take the points that were made, and get enjoyment from hearing what other folks have to say. But after reading your post, I’m just that much more fired up for this season.

Are my hopes big for a great season? Not really. I still expect a .500 or slightly better. But I feel we’re on the right path, and there are going to be good things to come for this team. It will all start with a group of guys playing harder and playing as a team. After ’09, watch out!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 28, 2009 2:19 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for getting to it!

Given your workload on this site and what I can only imagine is your workload off it, I’m just happy to get a once-over and a compliment. Thanks again!

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Jun 28, 2009 5:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a word

awesome. :D

Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.

Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by BShrout on Jun 28, 2009 5:15 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice article. I only disagree with #2. There are only a couple people who know what really happened – the people involved. Jay’s side of the story is that McDaniels lied to his face over and over and over again. Further, McDaniels only came clean to Cutler after being called out multiple times. When McDaniels finally came clean about lying, he looked at Cutler and said something to the effect of “so what, deal with it”.

That’s Cutler’s side of the story. It may or may not be true, but it supports the idea that it was largely McDaniels fault. Since neither Cutler nor his ex-temamates would go public with Cutler’s side of the story, you mostly heard about Cutler being upset about the trade talk (that was obviously true at first, just like any new player is hurt the first time they are the subject of trade rumors, but it was the pervasive lying and “deal with it” attitude that led to Cutler demanding a trade). I only heard a couple Post reporters vaguely reference McDaniel’s dishonesty on the radio, as if they new Cutler’s side but couldn’t be explicit because no one would go on the record.

Perhaps Cutler should have just “dealt with” the fact that McDaniels lied to him over and over again. However, this was Cutler’’s first exposure to his new head coach and de facto offensive coordinator and QB coach. This was a man with whom Cutler was going to have to spend a huge amount of time to learn a new and complex offense. Why would Cutler want to spend his days and nights with a guy who’s first instinct was to lie to him over and over again and deny it to his face over and over again?

by Broncos_FTW on Jun 29, 2009 2:11 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

This is the post of the offseason

This should be required reading for all football fans and media who think they know Denver this year.

Thanks for the terrific summary, Sharpe. Solid and timely. Rec’d — I’d give it 20 recs if I could.

"They need a hero to tell them that the impossible can become possible..... WHEN... YOU'RE... AWESOMMMME!" -- Rhino the Hamster

by broncosmontana on Jul 2, 2009 2:51 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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