Dungy questions Bears acquisition of Cutler
"I really think Chicago gave up a lot to get a quarterback who they believe is going to be the final piece of the puzzle. But I am not sure he has won enough to merit that yet."
about 1 year ago
JeffG
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Not buying it
Players who put up numbers like Cutler their first couple years don’t come around often. You do anything to get a QB and and do anything not to give him up either.
Guys with Cutler's physical abilities are rare. I agree
But guys with Cutler’s mental capacity are a dime a dozen.
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
Yeah......
…….Vandy isn’t a sh*tty school, and Cutler isn’t dumb, by any means. Immature? Sure. But a lot of people thought that about Elway in his early NFL years. An immature young man with great physical skills has a decent chance of becoming a more mature leader with those same great physical skills……and a franchise quarterback.
A young man who’s mature beyond his years, and has average physical skills, will be a great locker room voice…………and a career back up quarterback.
I respectfully disagree in regards to physical skills
The most current case in point, Tom Brady. The guy does not have a cannon for an arm, well… he does have the ability to throw the deep ball, but he seems to use it sparingly, he certainly does not have the legs or speed to be considered a scrambler (and personally, I find it hilarious to watch him run) but probably his greatest asset is the maturity he shows on the field, as well as off it. The guy simply “gets it”.
Cutler, on the other hand, more and more reminds me of Joaquin Phoenix’s character in the movie Signs, in which he is asked if he really held the strikeout record in the minor league for which he played, he replies
Felt wrong not to swing.The leading conversation being
He would just swing that bat as hard as he could every time. Didn’t matter what the coaches said, didn’t matter who was on base. He would just whip that bat through the air as hard as he could. Looked like a lumberjack chopping down a tree.
This might not make sense but it reminds me of his throw first, decide whether or not it was the right read later, mentality. To be fair to Cutler, and I know this is contradictory to my example, I feel that he was coddled by Shanny and Bates to the point of stunting his development.
Physical skills are certainly an asset, but I do not feel that they are the end all be all of a quarterback.
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
by Choochoobonewagon on Jun 4, 2009 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree.....
Physical skills are definitely not the end all and be all. But maturity comes with time. " Thus it’s definition". Elite physical ability is either there, or it isn’t.
Right now Cutler is a big @ss baby. But he’s a big @ss baby with a cannon, great vision, and a little too much confidence in his abilities. (Gosh, I hate to compare anyone to Elway ), But, much like Elway was in his early years.
In 2 or 3 years the Bears are going to have a confident quarterback who’s comfortable in the system.
This kid is either going to be an Elway / Favre cross……….or a Ryan Leaf clone.
By the way, Tom Brady is on an island. It’s tough to campare anyone to him.
by BroncoFan_17 on Jun 4, 2009 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Very true, Brady might not have been the best example
I was just referring to his maturity outweighing his shortcomings in god given abilities compared to Cutler. As for maturity, I am referring to the psychological definition:
a term used in psychology to indicate that a person responds to the circumstances or environment in an appropriate manner
understanding that there are numerous ways to define the term, specifically, as you have pointed out, time.
There is no doubt that Cutler has a cannon and I will not dispute that with the proper coaching that cannon can be turned into a world beater. But like I used to do with girls in highschool, picture Brady’s head on Cutlers body. This is what I saw coming in the McD-Cutler marriage, it is a shame that it ended before it ever began.
To think that Cutler will become a headier, more mature player under the tutelage of the Bears coaching staff I just do not see, especially considering what the Bears have suffered through with Grossman and his lack of development in light of his mistake prone tendencies. I also cannot see a more quarterback friendly system in which to get comfortable in than what he had the last three years, under Shanny and Bates in Denver. A post game press conference comes to mind from last season in which Shanahan praised Cutler for his gunslinger mentality, even in light of multiple interceptions, and did not see a reason to tighten the reigns, instead, to paraphrase, he would continue to allow him to “swing away” (another Signs reference :P).
Granted, my opinion of his future is all conjecture, and though I wish him the best in Chicago, I think Cutler missed out on a golden opportunity (granted I understand that it was a two way street in terms of the Broncos FO) to progress under the impartial eye of McDaniels.
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
by Choochoobonewagon on Jun 5, 2009 1:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah
What does Dungy know about franchise QB’s and what it take to win in the NFL compared to all the experienced reporters out there.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 4, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions
yeah, what the hell does Dungy know about good QB's...
I mean, Peyton Manning is a scrub. Everyone knows that.
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
Shanny was pretty successful and knew a thing or two about good quarterbacks
Last I checked he was awfully high on Cutler. Oh wait, I forgot. Shanahan sucks now that he’s not a Bronco right?
Anyone that wants to value players based on wins isn’t the brightest bulb in the box.
Great perspective
JaMarcus Russell.
Enough said.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 4, 2009 6:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Not..
…to judge a QB based on his record…?
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 4, 2009 11:24 PM MDT up reply actions
OH i see wut you did thar@
Jamarcus has a bad record and hasn’t done anything to show that he isn’t bad, amirite??!? Jamarcus had a better rookie record than Peyton Manning’s rookie record though, so doesn’t that mean he’s going to be better than Peyton? You know, because wins and losses are crucial to talent evaluation.
I'm not sure if you're mocking me or what
I was just agreeing with you and using your own guy as an example. The kid played pretty damn well at the end of last year under the dude who just happens to be the HC now, so there’s reason for optimism, despite his record not being very good.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 5, 2009 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Shanny was good at coaching them...
his track record at picking them wasn’t so hot. Remember he did not pick Elway or Young; he inherited them. He was very high on Brian Greise, even started him as a rookie. Was very high on Plummer at first, etc.
Wait...
Is not the point of the NFL to win games? I know they are hard to come by in Oakland these days (though you guys have our number in Denver no less, haha) but do you value a team of fantasy standouts to a team that wins football games?
I think you are drinking too much of Undead Al’s formaldehyde mang.
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
by Choochoobonewagon on Jun 4, 2009 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Obviously the point is to win games
but penalizing individual players because of team performance is silly. Is Nnamdi not a good corner because the Raiders only won 5 games? Is Vince Young a great quarterback because he has an 18-11 record? Is Andre Johnson a bad receiver because he’s never been on a winning team? Why blame Cutler for a poor win loss record and not Brandon Marshall or the offensive line or some of the more atrocious defenses he’s had opposite him?
I’d like to hear from Dungy just how many wins a quarterback needs before he’s worthy of being considered a franchise player. There was a lot of criticism for a long time about Dungy and Manning because they could never win the big game, he’s apparently decided to pay the one forward.
I now get what you are saying
But there is still value in wins and losses. Take Mike Vick for example, the guy was a hot commodity when winning, but once opposing teams figured out how to contain him (even though he still had playmaking ability), his value as a player took a hit, leaving many to question his commitment. Another example would be Tim Tebow, the guy might not be the prototypical NFL quarterback, but his ability to win games has many wondering how they can possibly utilize his gamesmanship.
Again, I understand what you are saying about wins and losses not being the best definition of value, but for a quarterback, it is how they are defined. When was the last time a quarterback, or any player for that matter, was voted as MVP, that was on a losing team (though not necessarily a super bowl winning team)?
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
by Choochoobonewagon on Jun 5, 2009 1:02 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for explaining yourself Pete
I was beginning to think that you were just giving pot shots.
With the 12th pick, the Broncos select Knowshon Moreno - Roger Goodell
That'll move the chains - Andy Samberg
I wouldn't argue that Shanny was/is very knowledgable with quarterbacks
but his coaching methods became stale. I compare McD’s and Shanny’s coaching styles like this:
Shanny was looking for a get rich quick scheme. McDaniels is building his business little by little for long term success.
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
Amen.
Teams would give up just about anything, in the short term, to secure a solid quarterback for the next 10 – 12 – 14 years.
But hey, we have Kyle Orton.
Tony Dungy vs. John Clayton ... Hmmmmmmm
My earnest prayer is that all of the “experts” out there will focus completely on Jay Cutler and the Bears while just leaving Denver alone to build their team and put their playbook into action. The Broncos are going to take a lot of their so-called “fans,” and a lot of their opponents by surprise this year. For me, if John Clayton or any of the other talking heads at ESPN or NFLN say one thing and Tony Dungy says another, I’m on the Dungy train! I don’t wish Cutler any harm, but I find that I’m gbetting happier by the moment that he is no longer a Bronco.
Head coaches always get more credit from me than guys like Clayton.
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
NBA Finals: Lakers v. Magic. Game 1 June 4th
I agree......pretty much.
But I kind of hope Cutler gets humbled this season. Spending some quality time on his back and throwing to mediocre receivers should make him long for that Bronco offensive line, and guys like Marshall, Scheffler, and Royal.
After one good season of getting his @ss handed to him, then I’ll be able to wish him well for the rest of his career.
by BroncoFan_17 on Jun 6, 2009 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions
maybe 6 or 7 seasons.
At the very least, he should have to go through the same amount of crappy years Elway did. If you’re gonna say you’re the greatest, you gotta take the bad with the good.
"It means nothing to throw for 4500 yards, 25 touchdowns, and you dont win" -Brandon Marshall
Especially interesting since...
…..Dungy and Lovie Smith are good friends. Dungy still made a pretty negative remark about Chicago trading for Cutler.
Growing older is not for sissies. Jack Palance
I suspect his good friend Lovie has similar trepidations.
Pure speculation, but it wouldn’t suprise me. I love the quote “…quarterbacking is much more than making throws”.
"Talking tough is easy when it's other people's evil and you're judging what they do or don't believe. It seems to me you'd have to have a hole you're own to point a finger at somebody else's sheet" -- Mike Cooley
Yeah, but .....
….if he does pan out, and continues to excell, the Bears have a stud quarterback for the next 10 or 12 years. Cutler has the skills to warrant taking that chance on. Especially if you’re a team that’s been mired in offensive mediocrity season after season. They’ve got a young franchise runner, in Forte. Now they’ve got a young franchise quarterback. If they can find some upgrades at receiver and the O-line they’ll have quite the formidable offense in a year or two.
Of course Dungy has more football knowledge in his little finger than I do in my whole body. And Cutler will need to grow up and mature into a better leader. The Bears gave up a lot, but if Jay becomes the stud that some speculate he will, then it will have been worth it, in my “dumb@ss” opinion.
I think we converted him guys!
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
Nothing wrong with questioning a trade
Especially this time of year. It’s mainly what this time of year is about, isn’t it? No one will know for several years, if not for an entire career, whether it was a good trade for either team.
Based on what I have seen, though, Cutler has as good a chance as anyone to become the franchise player everyone believes he can be. He may win with Chicago, he may not. Anyone remember Fouts or Marino? Good players, both, but never the winner they, or most everyone else, had hoped they would be.






























