My Brandon Marshall Scouting Report
Just wanted to give a look at BMarsh considering all the controversy surrounding him to get some discussion going regarding what he is or is not actually worth to the Broncos in both the short and long term.
2008 NFL Rank Receptions:
#3: 104
#1 = Andre Johnson with 115. Johnson played 16 games to Marshall's 15. As did Welker who is the other ahead of him.
2008 NFL Rank Total Yards:
#7: 1265
#1 = Andre Johnson with 1575
2008 NFL Rank YPG:
#5: 84.3
#1 Steve Smith with 101.5
2008 NFL Rank TDs:
Tied #22: 6
#1 = Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson with 12
2008 NFL Rank 1st Down Rec:
#4: 65
#1 = Andre Johnson with 79
2008 NFL Rank YAC:
Tied #12: 439 (Steve Smith)
#1 = Wes Welker 758
2008 NFL Rank Yard Per Catch:
#124: 12.2
#1 Devery Henderson with 24.8
2008 NFL Rank Targeted:
#1: 181
#2 = Andre Johnson with 170
Comments: These mix stats and my own observations
Positives:
1. BMarsh's raw production kicks ass. He catches a lot of balls for a lot of yards.
2. He's a beast to try and tackle. I was a little surprised he wasn't a bit higher in YAC, then I remembered he gave back about 100 yards over the season circling backwards.
3. He picks up first downs. I didn't look for a breakdown on what down his first down catches come though. I'd like to see it if someone has that info. I'm betting he wasn't our top third down guy. Wouldn't be surprised if both Royal and Stokely finished ahead of him.
4. He gets off the jam pretty well because of his size and gets into his routes on time for the most part.
5. He often demands double-coverage, opening the field for others.
6. He uses his body well to screen defenders when they are behind him so that he can make possession catches despite close coverage.
7. He's competitive and wants to be an elite receiver. He has a decent work ethic from what I can tell.
Negatives:
1. Despite our perception of him, BMarsh has not demonstrated that he is a big play receiver. He has a minuscule YPC average which indicates to me that he does not make a lot of plays down the field. Worse, he disappears in the red zone. He's only managed 15 TDs in his career. Randy Moss has 37, T.O. 38, and Larry Fitzgerald. 28 over the same span. Even a WR like Hines Ward who is known more for scrappiness than big play ability has 20 TDs over the last 3 seasons. Calvin Johnson has 16 TDs in his two seasons playing for the garbage Lions, for the love of Pete. I would think that a big-bodied possession guy like BMarsh should be a monster in tight, but it's not the case.
2. He does not have great hands. Despite being targeted more than any other receiver, he was third in catches. He drops balls. He also doesn't adjust to the long ball in the air well. With his height and general size, you'd think he'd be a great deep ball, jump ball artist. He's not. Most noticeably, he does not come back for the ball well when it is behind him. If he can't run under it, it's an incompletion more often than not. In terms of his hands and the drops, I'm willing to give him some time because of the nerve damage. In terms of going back for the ball, I hope somebody can coach him because he should be a monster at it and isn't.
3. Another factor in the difference between being targeted and number of catches might have to do with brains/discipline/concentration/etc. Specifically, he doesn't always run good routes and seems, to frequently for my taste, to run incorrect routes. We can assume that some of the misreads on such plays were Jay's, but a bunch were Marshall's as well.
4. He has a selfish streak. Brandon Stokely saving him a 15 yarder late in the Cleveland game last year is a big illustration.
5. The off-the-field stuff. No need to go over it in more depth here. Just makes you wonder how much the Broncos can rely on him long term.Whether it's injuring himself severely while horsing around or being on the commish's sh*t-list, you gotta wonder if he's gonna play all the games we need him to.
General:
I'm not trying to bash Brandon with this post. The negatives section is longer than the positives because we all know what he's good at. What we don't talk much about is what he's bad at (or at least what he's bad at on the field as opposed to life skills). My overall take is that BMarsh is one of the top five possession receivers in the NFL and a top ten or twelve overall receiver. He is not, however, a huge difference maker yet. He doesn't score TDs and he doesn't make the difficult play often enough. He (like Jay) has not been clutch in big spots. Basically, despite what looks like good production, I feel like Marshall has significantly underachieved in relation to his physical skills. In the BMarsh trade poll, I voted that I would consider trading him for a 1st and a servicable receiver. I still think like that would be appropiate value. Honestly, I'd be willing to give up BMarsh and a 2 rounder for a similar player in Anquan Boldin.
I love to watch BMarsh in the same way I loved to watch Cutler. He's a freak of physical talent who does some unbelievable things on a football field. At the same time, I think we're still in the land of what Marshall could be rather than what he is. He could be an all-timer but there's still a lot standing in the way.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
8 recs |
15 comments
Comments
Good points Jaff....
I would agree, his over stats point to a player who is just not playing completely up to his potential. If he can move past himself, I believe he could be one of the best receivers of this era. The physical skill is certainly there, but his mental approach to the game seems to need some work. At this point he is only proving he is a risk and not an asset. The only way to change it is on the field with consistent production. Elite receivers score points, Brandon has not proven he is and elite receiver, yet. I believe if he just gets in camp, he’ll come around and get the coaching to help him improve and become who he thinks he is. Just my thoughts.
by bchiper on Jun 30, 2009 9:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
You covered it all.
Excellent analysis, Jaff. Rec’d for the compare & contrast of Marshall’s assets & liabilities to our team. I’m glad for this break prior to camp to allow the realities of the here & now to hopefully crystallize in Brandon’s mind. He is at a crossroads in his career,& I hope that he chooses wisely. Quite frankly, I think the Broncos will be fine with our without him. How weird is that? Such a physically gifted & productive player, & I’m OK with losing him? I guess the team first approach with this new herd of Broncos is becomming stronger, & radiating outward into the psyche of the fans. Any one player who thinks he is bigger than the team becomes expendable. I hope BMarsh buys in, shows up for camp, & becomes all that he can be in this new era. If not, I hope a fair trade can be arranged that will bring us equal value. I am comfortably numb either way.
"He can take his'n n beat your'n, or he can take your'n n beat his'n." Florida A&M Coach Jake Gaither on Alabama Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant.
by turnerstoe on Jun 30, 2009 10:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice work, my friend
Here’s the thing – Brandon is one of only a couple of players in history to achieve two back to back 100 catch seasons in his first three years. Yes, he’s worth it – even if he’s a genuine pain in the tush. At his height (6’4.5) and 230, he’s of incredible size. He runs sloppy routes (was projected by scouts.com for the 6th round for that reason). He needs to mature as a player and a human. And he’s incredibly talented. Whether or not he’ll choose to maximize that is another question.
He has had a series of injuries, on and off the field. Look at this from an article I wrote on him:
In 2006 he suffered a posterior cruciate ligament tear during preseason. As has been his pattern however, he healed quickly and returned a few weeks later to play 15 of the 16 regular-season games, starting one, and scoring his lone TD for the season on a Sunday Night Football game against Seattle; the game was Cutler’s first. Marshall broke and spun away from three tackles on his way to a career-high 71-yard touchdown that was the second longest rookie-to-rookie pass play in Broncos history.
2007 brought more preseason injuries – a groin strain that kept him out of activities in May and June and a sprained quadriceps femoris that kept him out of minicamp until a frustrated Shanahan ordered him to participate for the last few days. From that time on, he was a starter. During the 2007 season, Marshall posted team and career highs in receptions (102), receiving yards (1,325) and receiving touchdowns (7).
But in the off-season of 2008, Marshall severely injured his right arm during an incident for which he gave multiple and conflicting explanations. He suffered damage to the muscles, tendons, nerves, a ligament and the blood vessels in the forearm. The damage was repaired and he returned ahead of schedule to camp, but he stated late in the season that he was still experiencing some numbness at times. That would be normal, and is consistent with what the Broncos have made public – the nerves will heal more in the next year and should reach full recovery late this year, if those reports are accurate.
At the end of 2008, Brandon revealed that a hip issue had been bothering him for the last several games. It reduced his ability to cut and to run after the catch. In hindsight, it made a change in his production understandable. The fact that he didn’t mention it or use it as an excuse shows a different side of Brandon.
That’s about it. He has big upsides and big downsides. Overall, if you can keep him, keep him on the field, you’re doing well. If you expect to keep him our of trouble, you’re probably going to be disappointed. Personally, I’d consider him on his last chance, but I’d try to get him on the field.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Jun 30, 2009 10:39 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree that we should try to get him on the field.
He has HOF upside. Just has some things to improve. I don’t think he’s elite yet, but definitely on the cusp.
by jaffe28 on Jun 30, 2009 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to wait on his potential with a big payday in the works.
I agree with your analysis, Doc. And I’ve been prepping a huge, table-laden article that made these same points. I look at it this way. We are all likely to agree that Cutler forced the ball to Marshall at least 3 times a game. Take away those 45 extra targets (on which he was not the best option) and you’re talking about 25-26 fewer receptions, 300 fewer yards, 1touchdown less. At that point, he’s a 980-yard, 5-TD player. I think he’s not threatening to hold out. And we’re not all upset by the idea of it.
Like you, I think we need to get the guy on the field and see if he grows up. But with the holdout and the looming big payday, the issue has been forced. The team will have to weigh potential vs. actual production. The targets issue is big to me: by my math, Marshall caught 57% of the passes thrown his way, a figure that ranked 31st among receivers targeted 80+ times. So he wasn’t a low-risk target, but the problem is also that he wasn’t a high-reward one — just look at the low yards-per-catch figures. No matter how good I think me might end up being, that’s not the kind of production I’d want to commit a lot of cash to.
So I’m weighing the what-ifs — if he stays healthy, happy and out of the clink; if he buys into McDaniels’ offense, if he focuses, makes strides, lets the game come to him. I’m weighing that vs. what we know for sure. And what we know for sure is that for all his potential, he hasn’t provided a particularly sure target (Eddie Royal caught 70% of the balls thrown his way) or much of a deep threat. In fact, I tend to see him (against my will) as a possession receiver with unsure hands. I want the best for him, but that’s what we know for sure.
In a vacuum, I’d be fine with a wait-and-see approach. But a payday is coming. I want the guy to stay, but just can’t overlook the idea that someone else will be willing to overpay for potential and for Marshall being over-targeted the last 2 years.
by Chibronx on Jul 1, 2009 8:17 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I eagerly await your analysis ChiBronx
I can see by your comment that their are some interesting things to consider.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 1, 2009 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
He’s started for two years. Here are the awards and records for that time:
* He already holds the record for most receptions over a five-game span in NFL history (55).
* He is the only player in NFL history to have at least 10 receptions in four out of five consecutive games.
* He is tied for the second-most catches in an NFL game with Tom Fears at 18 (the record is 20 by Terrell Owens).
* He caught 102 passes in 2007, becoming only the third second-year player in NFL history to have at least 100 receptions in a season (joining Isaac Bruce and Larry Fitzgerald).
* He is the ninth player in NFL history to have at least 100 catches in back-to-back seasons (2007 and 2008), and the second Bronco to do so (Rod Smith was the first).
* 2008 Pro Bowl Selection
* Week 2 2008 AFC Offensive Player of the Week
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Jun 30, 2009 10:42 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Targets vs. Receptions
Marshall was the most targeted because Cutler locked in on him. His reception rate was lower than comparable receivers because Cutler threw it to him whether he was covered or not. I seem to remember Brandon making quite a few catches in traffic. Also, I think a major contributing factor to his low YPC was the bubble screen that fooled nobody and typically gained about two yards.
With that said, I think the fact that Marshall couldn’t get open and his failure to be successful with the screens were both due to his loss of explosiveness from his injury.
by Velveeta on Jun 30, 2009 10:56 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The injury is indeed an X-factor in the analysis.
And he did make some spectacular catches. He also missed some pretty easy ones. If there’s a reason to call him Baby T.O. that’s part of it too.
by jaffe28 on Jun 30, 2009 11:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way,
Regarding the injury, is this a NFLPA issue?
"He can take his'n n beat your'n, or he can take your'n n beat his'n." Florida A&M Coach Jake Gaither on Alabama Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant.
by turnerstoe on Jul 1, 2009 9:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not
He did have not one but two MRIs. Our diagnostic imaging tests simply aren’t yet perfect. His radiology exam looked Ok, and that led the coaches to wonder about him. The fact that during his rookie training camp he stretched out an injury until ordered onto the field by Shanahan didn’t help – there was a feeling that he was too ‘sensitive’ Like the boy who cried wolf, this came back to make a difficult situation worse. This time there was a problem, but it didn’t show up, apparently, until the exploratory surgery, or at least until an outside specialist caught something.
While I’m truly sympathetic for the situation, it’s not like the Broncos missed anything this time that they should have caught.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Jul 1, 2009 11:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not too worried about YPC
Yards per catch is, I think, an overused statistic. Many of BM’s short yardage catches were short third down conversions in plenty of traffic and therefore were not designed for big yardage – we just needed a first down. And given our defense over the past couple of years, I was always praying for long, multi-play, clock-chewing drives to keep the other team’s offense off the field. Football is too situational to get so focused on stats in a vacuum. Go Broncs!
It's "just" football
by Donkhead on Jul 1, 2009 9:16 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say it's in a vacuum,
since football is situational for all the other receivers in the NFL as well. Andre Johnson, who is a do it all receiver like BMarsh is supposed to be, averaged 13.7. It’s not a be all end all stat, just that it’s noticeable that other #1 guys seem to make the 3rd and short catch and catch the 2nd down bomb for a TD. Brandon does the first really well, the second not as well. It’s why I say he’s top five as a possession receiver but 10-12 overall.
by jaffe28 on Jul 1, 2009 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good response
Points well taken.
It's "just" football
by Donkhead on Jul 1, 2009 10:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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