Inside the Broncos' Roster: The Defensive Ends
by Sayre111589 on Jul 12, 2009 12:04 AM MDT
25 comments
At long last, this series has finally reached the defensive side of the ball, where we will begin by dissecting the Denver Broncos' defensive line.
The defensive lines Denver has put out in recent years have been absolutely horrendous, and have been a real Achille's Heel for the defensive unit.
The Broncos were constantly changing personnel, coaches, and alignments to rectify their problems up front, but absolutely nothing was working.
The team even devoted 75 percent of its 2007 draft class to the defensive line, and the results have been less than impressive, to say the least.
New head coach Josh McDaniels has been absolutely hammered by fans, media, and critics alike for seemingly avoiding upgrading the Broncos' defensive line via free agency and the NFL Draft, but I would contend that the new regime in Denver has significantly upgraded this area of the team, particularly at defensive end.
In 2008, the average size for a Broncos' defensive end was 6'3" 268 pounds, which includes the 6'6" 298 pound Nic Clemons.
For 2009, the average size for a defensive end in Denver heading to training camp is 6'4" and a whopping 298 pounds. That is a difference of 30 pounds for those keeping track at home.
I know, it does not necessarily mean that the talent has been significantly upgraded, but it cannot get much worse than the 2008 unit, and the Broncos have beefed up their frontline significantly. The run defense will be improved, and this crop of defensive ends will be a huge reason why.
According to McDaniels, there are no clear cut starters along the defensive line, which would explain why the Broncos will likely go into camp with eight players vying for a job.
One has to imagine that third year player Marcus Thomas will have a roster spot locked in thanks to his consistent play over the last two seasons.
Thomas has been one of the very few bright spots along the Denver defensive line, and may be the most versatile lineman the Broncos currently boast.
He started five games in his rookie campaign of 2007, and was penciled in as the starter for all 16 regular season contests in 2008. In that timeframe, Thomas has 53 tackles and two interceptions.
Coming out of Florida three years ago, Thomas had his share of off-field issues, but scouts felt that the Broncos had nabbed a first round talent with their fourth round pick acquired from the Minnesota Vikings.
Thomas has yet to live up to that lofty potential, but he is steadily growing as a player, both figuratively and literally.
He had been checking in at around 290 pounds over the last couple of seasons before growing to 300 at the end of the 2008 campaign, and now he is all the way up to 305 pounds. Some feel the reason for this is that the Broncos would like to use his versatility at nose tackle, which is definitely a possibility if he can get up to 310 or 315 pounds by the time training camp begins.
Thomas will compete for a starting spot with Ryan McBean, a fourth round pick in the 2007 NFL Draft who was taken 11 picks after the Broncos selected Thomas.
McBean began his career with the Pittsburgh Steelers who were absolutely loaded at the defensive end position, and he was placed on their practice squad.
He had a couple of stints on Pittsburgh's active roster, but has only seen game action once in his short career. The Broncos feel he has potential to make an impact at defensive end, but the jury is still out.
One of the more intriguing players at the defensive end position for the Broncos is 26 year old undrafted rookie free agent and Iraq veteran Rulon Davis.
Davis, formerly of the Cal Golden Bears, joins the Broncos with a decorated background, one that includes being named after former Denver defensive lineman Rulon Jones.
Many fans are pushing hard for Davis to make the final roster, and for good reason. He has displayed great athleticism and versatility in his days at Cal, and the Broncos feel he can play at defensive end or possibly even outside linebacker in their new 3-4 defensive scheme.
Another rookie defensive lineman fans are excited about is former Northern Iowa star Everette Pedescleaux.
Pedescleaux is a giant of a man at 6'6" 305 pounds, and he has proven to be a very valuable asset throughout his football career in college, racking up 112 tackles, 11 sacks and six blocked kicks. He was also a part of the UNI basketball team early in his college days.
One familiar face along the defensive line and at defensive end will be seven year veteran Kenny Peterson, the eldest of the Broncos' defensive bigs.
Peterson, often referred to as "Patterson", was the only notable defensive free agent retained by the Broncos' new staff, and he appears to be an ideal fit for a 3-4 defensive end.
He has played both end and tackle in his three seasons with the Broncos, and last season played in all 16 games while recording 24 tackles, three sacks, and one fumble forced.
Peterson could very easily be one of the opening day starters at defensive end for Denver.
One player Broncos fans are most excited to get the chance to see play is second year pro Carlton Powell, a fifth round pick last season out of Virginia Tech.
Powell stands at 6'3" 300 pounds, and the former Hokie is regarded as a run-stopping specialist by scouts, so one can imagine why Broncos fans are eager to get this kid on the field.
He was placed last season on the physically unable to perform list, and never made it to the Broncos' active roster.
Another former mid-round draft pick that will compete for a defensive line spot is Matthias Askew, a fourth round pick of the Bengals in 2004.
Askew has spent two seasons out of football, and seems like a long-shot to make the Broncos' final roster.
Rounding out the list of defensive ends is third year pro Nic Clemons, who saw his most significant playing time last season for the Broncos, recording 13 total tackles.
Clemons was signed to a future contract in 2008 by the Broncos after spending 2006 and 2007 out of football all together.
He played in a career high 10 games last season, and hopes to make the Broncos' final roster for the second straight year.
The defensive end position for the Denver Broncos is by no means flashy, but there is no doubt this unit is a significant upgrade over last season, especially when considering the hiring of former San Diego Chargers defensive line coach Wayne Nunnely, which cannot be overlooked.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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I've enjoyed your positional breakdowns on Bleacher Report
One clarification which is possibly not needed, given how knowledgeable most readers here are, is that we didn’t simply get bigger at the same position. A 3-4 end is not a 4-3 end. We went to a bigger kind of position and just happened to have the players to fill it coming from a different position, 4-3 tackle. It looks like we did gain in size, even relative to the size requirements of the new positions, by the way our mixture of bodies and positions fell out. Doom is light for a defensive end but not so much for an outside linebacker. Thomas (and I think Peterson) is average or slightly small for a 4-3 DT but is nice-sized for a 3-4 DE. Although not as much as our absolute gain I think we’ve made a relative gain of 5 to 10 pounds compared to the norm for the kind of defense we’re playing.
But the NT will pull it down. I’m excited to see what Thomas in particular does at DE, if that’s where they put him, but we don’t have any really big bodies at NT. Powell is the one who intrigues me most. People tend to assume that, like the center on a basketball team, the nose tackle is just the biggest guy. But there were some really large guys in this year’s draft who weren’t noted for being able to handle double-teams, which is a big part of the job description for nose tackle. Powell on the other hand is noted for being able to handle double-teams and was a run-stopping demon in college. You’d have to say he’s way too small for NT, and yet . . .
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Jul 12, 2009 2:13 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks spock
I definitely think you make some good points, and I would love to see Powell get a shot at NT. I think our DL could impress some of the haters out there this season with our youth and depth, if you want to call it that.
by Sayre111589 on Jul 12, 2009 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice Sayre
The whole series was well written, Thanks
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 12, 2009 6:59 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely diggin' 'em
Keep them coming Sayre. Thanks
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 12, 2009 12:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Wayne Nunnely
may be the biggest upgrade for the defensive line and SD’s biggest loss. The guy is considered a D-line guru of the same order that Alex Gibbs was considered an O-line guru.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jul 12, 2009 12:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
Another of our coaching staff upgrades! Great point SWG! There are so many positves, it’s easy to lose track of one or two of them, time and again (especially in the dregs of the off-season, when my concious mind can’t fully focus on football, without the weekly visuals LoL!)….
That is just another thing I can’t wait to see the altecations of when we play SD this season! Always makes for interesting headers when we get direct competition’s talent!
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 12, 2009 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely Agree
His leaving the Chargers was a surprise to me, but I’m glad he came to help us out. He probably couldn’t stand even watching our guys from the opposing sideline haha.
by Sayre111589 on Jul 12, 2009 4:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was an issue of Rivera wanting to bring in his friends
Rivera has said that it was nothing against Nunnely, but that he wanted guys that he’s worked with before. Pretty much the same thing that tends to happen with any coordinator/HC change. I’m very impressed with everything that I’ve seen on Nunnely. His record is great, and he knows more about SD than anyone out there, which will help us over the next couple of seasons
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Jul 13, 2009 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
trivia on the DE
One of the more intriguing metrics I’ve seen is Rulon Davis’ arm length — 36’ 3/4.
Arm length is an issue on the outside, as others have noted, but it’s apparently not as much of an issue in the tight spaces that interior OLs operate.
I wanted to bring the issue up, once again, since it came up recently in the context of the discussion of Lichtenstein’s prospects of success.
Just as there are differences of opinion here, there are differences of opinion in the football world. For the OT position in particular, the short armed are often relegated to RT (RTOs, or right tackle only — as Mayock calls them) or moved inside, but it’s hardly the only consideration.
My take; it’s not a bad thing for Davis, certainly. Issues like footwork, technique, recognition, etc., are still quite important, too. Curiously, when we first visited this issue it was in the context of discussions of Dumervil, whose long arms belie his short stature, and I believe — in his case — that it’s been a great boon. Long arms have also been a boon to Clady, but he also combines this with great footwork, which is what originally sold me on him prior to the 08 draft.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 12, 2009 1:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The Reason Long arms are an Asset for DL
The reason so many people talk about how arm length is a major asset for DL is because short armed players will get dominated far more often because they are unable to use their upper body strength effectively if they are eating the opposing lineman’s facemask.
Like you said, many have been saying a reason for Dumervil’s success is because of his freakishly long arms, and that’s not an overstatement. He gets great separation from linemen with those arms.
by Sayre111589 on Jul 12, 2009 4:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I first raised this issue in the context of a discussion about Dumervil. His odd combination of long arms and short height probably make him difficult to handle because he’s able to make contact lower on the OL’s body and throw him off balance, much as they do in judo.
OLs are taught to bend at the knees (NOT at the waist) in order to keep their center of balance low, besides giving them the ability to drive with their legs, but it’s hard to deal with someone who’s naturally lower than you. This problem doesn’t normally arise because height and arm length correlate so it’s usually just a question of total reach, which is arm length + height = total reach. We see a similar kinesiological issue for stout FBs.
Davis tied with Gilbert for the longest arms at the combine, and another ‘condor’ was Tyson Jackson (34’3/4), although Gilbert and Davis are freakishly long armed. As I said, it’s not the only issue. I often bemoan lack of leg metrics, which can be more of an issue (IMO) once inside of an arm length. “Less-less wonders” (i.e., Tony Mandarich) don’t make particularly good lineman.
BTW — a few others: Baker (34.0"), Ayers (33.0"), Olsen (33"1/8), Bruton (34"1/4), McBath (30"3/4), Smith (31"1/2), Quinn (33"1/2), McKinley (31"1/4). Moreno (30"3/4), Brandstater (31"1/4).
Also — Branson (34"1/4), D.J. Johnson (32"3/4), & Robinson (32"3/8). They’re interesting to look at if not necessarily meaningful.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 12, 2009 5:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
Are you saying 9 of Denvers 10 picks are long armed?
"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me
by 3nS on Jul 12, 2009 5:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Read this. Bunting addresses the ranges for OTs, but you can guess as to ranges for other positions. Some of the better WRs are long-armed, as Crabtree’s 34"1/4 wingspan shows, but I wouldn’t regard arm length as necessarily meaningful for every position.
Bruton is certainly long-armed, and Baker’s longish reach may help him. Branson is probably helped a little, although it merely balances out his lack of height, but he may play FB so it’s not really an issue. Some of the others are shorter than they’d prefer, but it’s not much of an issue because of their position.
The only player whose reach is so far outside the norm that it’s an issue is probably Rulon Davis, and this is also because of the position he plays. BTW — Deacon Jones has very long arms, too. Davis’ namesake, Rulon Jones, also has a ‘spread,’ as I recall.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 12, 2009 6:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice point, Sayre
The reason so many people talk about how arm length is a major asset for DL is because short armed players will get dominated far more often because they are unable to use their upper body strength effectively if they are eating the opposing lineman’s facemask.
Strength and leverage are keys to linemen on both sides of the ball. ‘Steiger lost draft points because he’s short-armed (so was Tom Nalen, if memory serves, but I could be wrong). Long arms by O linemen help to deliver a punch quickly and to quickly reach and gain control of the rusher. Long arms by D lineman help them to ward off the OL. Not only does Doom have long arms, but they are amazingly strong. He has a mastery of leverage that counteracts the height issue – it even helps him, because OL have difficulty if he gets under their pads. Glad to see that come out
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Jul 13, 2009 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Info
I see this unit as solid at worst. I’m real excited about Thomas. My memory says that Shannahan said he was the quickest off the snap of all dlinemen in his draft, including the DE’s. His noted athletecism speaks for its self. The real big question on him was character and maturity and he has eased those some. He’s also going into the year when the light really seems to go on for Dlinemen. I anticipate big things out of him…unless they really do put him in the NT mix…which will baffle me to no end.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer
by PredominantlyOrange on Jul 12, 2009 6:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Very well said...
….about Thomas.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
by bradley on Jul 12, 2009 6:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey...
What about Chris Baker? What about his shot to make the team?
by precisiontint on Jul 13, 2009 8:29 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
good point
Sayre111589 may have omitted him because the Broncos list him at DT. However, I’ve pointed out recently that he played DE (along with other DL positions at PSU and Hampton) so we shouldn’t pidgeonhole him just because we’re anxious to fill NT.
Bear makes some interesting comments below this post. It looks to me like a lot of the DLs can switch positions and may continue to do so throughout the season. Starting positions may be somewhat academic. My worry is that we lack experience at DE, so I’d like to Baker gain a toehold if it allows us to switch Fields and Thomas outside more.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 13, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough one
Baker has his own character issues, but if he stays ‘clean’ that’s in the past. However – he’s fighting some very good players to make the squad. If he does, they will probably not use Thomas or Powell at NT, but put them back in the mix for the DE slots. It’s going to be a heck of a competition. I am hoping for a few front-runners to dominate and separate themselves from the pack. Thomas should be one, wherever he plays. Any way you look at it, we’re going to mourn some favorites as they go to the PS and/or to other teams
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Jul 13, 2009 11:51 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
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