2009 Denver Broncos - Breaking Down The Roster – Punters/Kickers
The Denver Broncos head into the 2009 season with few questions in the kicking game. Matt Prater is the only kicker on the roster and is certainly a lock for the starting position barring any setbacks. However, there is an interesting battle at the punting position that yields as many questions as it does answers.
| 2008 Matt Prater stats | |||||||||||
| FG ATT | FGM | PCT | LNG | XP ATT | XPM | PCT | KO | AVG | TB | RET | AVG |
| 34 | 25 | 73.5 | 56 | 40 | 39 | 97.5 | 83 | 65.1 | 19 | 63 | 24.7 |
Matt Prater, in my view had a pretty average year. Many fans have already written him off as a failure, but history has shown that his first full season as a starter is fairly typical of even the greatest kickers of modern times. For example, in Jason Elam's first full season his field goal percentage was 74.3. Adam Vinatieri was just 77.1% in his first full season and even the venerable Morton Andersen made 75% of his kicks in his first full season as a starter back in 1983.
I know TheSportsGuru(aka John) has already made this point during one of his radio broadcasts, but it is a telling point to make. It also shows why Josh McDaniels has decided to put his full faith and confidence into Prater heading into the 2009 season. We should expect to see him improve and hopefully secure him as our kicker for the next decade.
| 2008 Brett Kern stats | |||||||||||
| PUNTS | YDS | NET | LNG | AVG | NET AVG | IN 20 | TB | FC | RET | YDS | TD |
| 46 | 2150 | 1740 | 64 | 46.7 | 37.8 | 13 | 4 | 6 | 28 | 330 | 1 |
Brett Kern had a pretty solid rookie year. There is no question he can kick a long ways, but there is much more to being a punter than just kicking the ball far. I was a big (as big as one can be on a punter) supporter of Sam Paulescu last season because he had an ability to place the ball in the right spot. Mike Shanahan disagreed and went with the bigger leg over the more accurate kicker. The result, many big kicks and also many big returns by the opposing teams.
To average 46.7 yards per punt is huge in the NFL, but even that number isn't so great in today's NFL. Out of 46 punts, only 13 were downed inside the twenty-yard line. That is unacceptable in my view. That tells me that most of his kicks inside the twenty were returned. It is my hope that Kern continues to work on his placement. Even if that means he has to sacrifice some of his power and distance. I'd rather see a towering 40-yard kick that goes for no return than a booming 55-yard kick that is returned for a touchdown!
This signing by the Broncos has me a bit puzzled. He seems like a bit of a head case and a risk that Josh McDaniels doesn't really need in his first year as head coach. Britton Colquitt was suspended for the Tennessee Vols' first five games of the 2008 season and stripped of his scholarship when he was arrested for a DUI after hitting a parked car and a tree stump before being stopped by police.
By itself, that wouldn't appear to be too big of a problem, however, he was also suspended as a Freshman after he was busted for several alcohol-related incidents. The history alone should have sent McDaniels and Xanders running for the hills, but apparently they see something in this kid and though it doesn't hurt them financially to cut the rookie; it could be embarrassing to the organization if Colquitt ends up behind bars this offseason.
Those concerns aside, the kid obviously has some talent at the punting position. He has a monster leg and also has a knack for placing the ball in the right positions. I hope he finds a way to get a handle on his drinking problem, or his tenure in this league will be very short. If you'd like to see what kind of leg he has, here is a video of a 71-yard punt that was downed at the opponent's 3-yard line.
There is also the fact that Colquitt is the fourth member of his family to break into the NFL. That could also have played into the decision to bring him aboard. I hope he decides to keep his life in check and leave the drink alone, because he could become a solid NFL punter one day.
Position Analysis
I honestly do not see Britton Colquitt seriously challenging for Brett Kern's job this season. I am not sure if we keep him on the practice squad either, but it is obvious to me that the Broncos need to keep themselves insulated from his past and the only way to do that is to keep Kern on the roster. Kern and Prater will be our starters in 2009, but I must admit that Colquitt in 2010 would be an intriguing proposition to me if he stays out of trouble.
4 recs |
64 comments
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Comments
I love specials
and that punt by Colquitt as sick. Seriously, sick! And what team doesn’t need a “drunk kicker”? Just kidding…
Beware the wrath of a patient adversary.
John C. Calhoun --
by bcfunk on Jul 18, 2009 11:49 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
lol bc
That comment sounds like it came right outta Bender’s mouth! Nicely done!
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Jul 18, 2009 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too easy on Prater!
Prater was awesome in September of 2008, but he got substantially worse as the season progressed. He made just 12 of his final 20 FG attempts and he missed back to back PATs vs San Diego in week 17 (a false gave him a 2nd chance to blow that gimme twice). His % beyond 50 was great, but his % of makes between 40-49% was disastrous.
Furthermore, his kickoffs were shorter and shorter as the year wore on.
Then we get to the off-season and the guy starts with the excuses that his leg was tired?
Other guys are playing real football with broken bones (Elvis), torn ligaments (DJ), diabetes (Cutler) and a really messed up hip (Marshall) yet Prater is crying about a tired leg from having to kick the ball too many times. Save it NANCY.
It would surprise me not one bit if Prater loses a game or two for Denver in 2009 before he is replaced.
And comparing Elam or Morton Anderson’s stats to Praters is not apples to apples. Kickers have become much more accurate in the past decade. Praters 60% percentage on his final 20 kicks in 2008 is not average for a kicker in today’s NFL, it’s terrible.
As this write-up suggests, Kern was pretty good in 2008, yet he is competing for his job with a talented, but flaky rookie. IMO, it was criminally negligent for The Coach not to bring in someone to push Prater (not nearly as solid as Kern) for a roster spot. The Coach stresses competition so why he didn’t bring in someone to challenge a kicker that proved to have a weak stomach in 2008. The Coach is being inconsistent here and it’s mystifying.
I’m sorry, but this write-up gave Matt Prater the kid gloves treatment?
by McGeorge on Jul 18, 2009 11:54 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
IN one of his pressers..
McDaniels seemed to say that one of the reasons for bringing in Paxton was to help Prate’s consistency over the course of the season.
I think he saw something in the late season films that indicated it had more to do with the snapping and placement and less to do with Prater. At any rate Prater has already remarked how impressed hw was with Paxton’s consistency of placement on FG snaps and that, combined with a dfferent work and preperation schedule should make him far more consistent throughout the year this year.
It will be real nice if he can develop and bring some stability to that aspect of each game.
by AlanC on Jul 18, 2009 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not just cut all rookies that don't have good first seasons?
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
by TD4HOF on Jul 18, 2009 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prater was not a rookie in 2008
Where did I say cut Prater. Oh, I didn’t.
I said bring in some legit competition, like we are doing with just about every other position on the team… most positions where we have better incumbent starter than Prater. It’s not like their even expensive players to sign.
So do you have a problem with Prater having to compete for his job?
Do anyone? If so, why?
In my opinion, its absolutely crazy that Prater does not have to compete for the job after the way he folded like a cheap chair in the 2nd half of his 2nd season in the NFL.
by McGeorge on Jul 18, 2009 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Confidence?
How much of a kickers consistency is about confidence? I’m not sure if it was last season, but i think it was, when Adam Viniateri (sp?) who’s nickname is ‘clutch’ missed a couple of easy kicks for the colts and then went through a really bad spell.. missing a few key kicks that cost the colts the game..
But if McDaniel’s is purposefully not bringing in another kicker because he saw what Prater is capable of during the early season tapes and just thinks that he got over worked and lost a bit of confidence then i guess it makes sense not to bring in competition because that might give him the added boost he needed?
Also if i remember correctly from a presser that Prater did, he basically he said he was he was over worked and he lost confidence a bit… to solve it he is kicking less to keep his leg fresher and not over compensating when he has a ‘bad day’ buy kicking until he can’t kick any more.. also he said that the fact that no competition came in even though coach brought in plenty for everyone else gave him confidence in himself that he can get the job done..
I think it’s pretty obvious that he has potential to be an elite kicker in this league. He, Priefer and McDaniel’s all seem to agree that he has the skills but justs need to tweak a few things so he doesn’t peek to early in the season.
by HorseStance on Jul 18, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure why Prater doesn't have competition
Even Elam had other kickers at training camp — there was never much doubt who was going to make the team. Maybe McX wants to see how Prater responds if he feels his position is secure?
by CoastalBronco on Jul 18, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 80 man roster
These last two years have been under a new 80 man roster limit, unlike the old days when over a hundred players were invited to camp.
Roster limits are probably part of the story but Prater’s accuracy beyond fifty yards is probably another big part of the story (5/6). His late season swoon may have created some doubts among fans but his overall average was still very respectable (73.5% versus ~84.5% league average). He struggled late in the season, but he would have had an exemplary first season if not for those problems. The assumption that his problems were anomalous and could be fixed seems justified.
Shanahan and staff decided that Prater was their kicker immediately after the regular season, which cooled the dump Prater movement. McDaniels and staff agreed with Shanahan’s decision.
Here’s a graph showing kicker’s % over time.
Year Pct. FG FGA No., 50+ Long, Kicker
1986 68.6 559 815 33 57, Steve Cox
1987 70.3 551 784 20 54, Nick Lowery
1988 71.7 571 796 28 53, by 2 kickers
1989 72.5 601 829 21 59, Pete Stoyanovich
1990 74.4 590 793 28 56, Mike Cofer
1991 73.4 623 848 42 60, Morten Andersen
1992 72.6 561 773 36 54, by 3 kickers
1993 76.6 673 879 61 59, Steve Christie
1994 78.9 640 811 24 54, by 3 kickers
1995 77.4 738 954 46 59, Morten Andersen
1996 80.0 732 915 30 56, Al Del Greco
1997 78.1 708 906 41 55 by 4 kickers
1998 79.6 708 889 47 63, Jason Elam
1999 77.7 749 964 42 55, Jason Elam
2000 79.7 731 917 38 55, Martin Gramatica
2001 76.3 732 959 38 55, Kris Brown
2002 77.5 737 951 44 57, Adam Vinatieri
2003 79.2 756 954 45 58, Josh Brown
2004 80.8 703 870 53 55, Neil Rackers
2005 81.0 783 967 48 58, Michael Koenen
2006 81.4 767 942 40 62, Matt Bryant
2007 82.8 795 960 47 57, Kris Brown
2008 84.8 758 894 61 57, Sebastian Janikowski
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 19, 2009 12:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, BUT
why would I waste so much time bashing the only place kicker we have on the roster? It would have been different if there was someone else on the roster to challenge him for the spot. The punting situation was more interesting….lol, interesting and punting are two words I never thought I’d use in the same sentence. ;-)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Jul 18, 2009 9:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Job Z
The kicking game was suspect in the late season and I wondered where did we get these retards. I have a different perspective now.
As far as Britt and the other two “kickers” and what we have seen with the new HC. You will play for the team. I see HC in “their collective faces” if they have problems on or off the field.
I liked Mike for what he did, but I am also looking forward to next season, which I could not do for the past 5 years.
Coach, I am Hurt, Not Dead - Remember the Titans
by Halfmile on Jul 18, 2009 12:01 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The only season I didn't look forward too was 1999....I grew up watching Elway. It was hard to see him go.
But thanks. I’ve been desperately looking for a job for the past few months leading up to my lay off June 30th, so I took the easiest assignment doled out by the “boss”. I didn’t think I’d find a job soon afterwards. I am looking forward to getting back into the swing of things around here. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Jul 18, 2009 9:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for the punters..
McDaniels has said that he doesn’t bring people in unless he feels they can compete and contribute to the team. I think there is definitely a competition to the punting game and it sounds like Kern realizes it and is working hard to improve his game.
In the end, I think we will have a real decent punter because of the process. Do you get the feeling that every player is actually being coached this year, from top to bottom with people who will make them better?
by AlanC on Jul 18, 2009 12:26 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure how I feel just yet...but I do get the sense that
the mainstream media is vastly under estimating this team. I hope I am right, because I will become quite depressed if the MSM turns out to be right….
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Jul 18, 2009 9:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wearing out
Those those who wonder what happened to Prater later in the season, I suggest that you read Stephan Fatsis’ "A Few Seconds of Panic. In it, he makes a point that is common knowledge among kickers, but which eludes fans.
Jason Elam barely worked on his kicking, from many people’s viewpoint. That’s wasn’t because he was so good – in part, he was that good because of it. You hear regular comments along the lines of kickers not being ‘real’ football players, but that’s based in a lack of medical understanding. Constant over-repetition of the kicking motion, which is unnatural at best, is the single best way to create repetitive injury problems with the joints in the hips and legs. Once that damage is done, the necessary training – only a few reps per day – of the kicking motion is enough to increase the damage to the ligaments and joints. The problem is cyclic, and it is often severe. It is extremely painful and very tough to kick through
A first year kicker, in his quest to get and keep his job, is very likely to overtrain early in the year, first to win his job and then in a well-meaning but misguided attempt to keep it. Once that damage is done, the second half of the season will be painful at best. Accuracy will suffer. although I have no doubts that Prater also experienced issues with the mental aspect of his game – like a master golfer, a kicker cannon overestimate the importance of his cognitive state while kicking – Prater’s experience is common among kickers. His single biggest opponent was most likely his own early-season training schedule
The number of kicking specialists in the coaching ranks is small. As a result, what they are trying to achieve and how they should best go about doing so is not widely taught, at least according to what I’ve read in Fatsis’ text and elsewhere. As he understand that he does not have to train that hard and recognizes what he will have to do to get through an entire season of kicking, I’d look for his numbers to improve this year. After all – his numbers, and those of Elam in his first year, were very similar and I didn’t hear anyone arguing that Elam should be tossed.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Jul 18, 2009 12:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
What you write has a lot of solid reason behind it.
But, I’ll pull a Jamie Dukes and get right to it.
Do you believe Prater played well enough in 2008 to lock down a roster spot without competition for the 2009 team?
Do you believe Denver should have brought in another kicker to challenge the incumbent?
Side note, from what little I heard about him, Prater was shaky in the mini-camps this off-season.
by McGeorge on Jul 18, 2009 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lord, don't quote Dukes
I couldn’t give credence to your viewpoint if you did…lol
I don’t really have an opinion. There are issues here that other folks – like the ones with clipboards – know more about, and at times I do defer to them. This is one. Prater showed all the factors that tend to lead to burnout among kickers, including a camp battle that required more kicks than ‘kicking gurus’ recommend. If the Broncos feel that he’s got the leg to work that out (and that will probably take a few weeks, so the OTA thing doesn’t concern me either) and that Priefer can work with him, I think it’s fine.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Jul 18, 2009 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re a tough nut to crack.
You can’t blame leg fatigue for missing back to back PATs. That is 100% mental for an NFL kicker. Matt was in mental shambles by season’s end. There is no way he did enough in 2008 (esp considering he got worse, not better) to deserve a free pass onto the 2009 team. It goes against all of McDaniels talking points of earning the job via competition.
But as I continue to hammer home, McDaniels getting the kid glove treatment on this site surprises me even less than Prater getting it.
I don’t always give The Coach enough credit for what he did with the secondary and smart coaching hires. He did well there… See, I can be positive about him when it’s warranted. But what The Coach is doing with Prater is very inconsistent from The Coach’s approach to the rest of the roster. Very inconsistent and it does not add up no matter how hard you try.
Don’t be shocked if Prater is not Denver’s kicker by November.
by McGeorge on Jul 18, 2009 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You need to remember how the Patriots value their kickers........
Where is Adam “I won you three Super Bowls” Vinetieri now? :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Jul 18, 2009 9:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the smartest moves NE ever made
Viniteri made some key kicks at the end to win some games…. what folks don’t talk about is the kicks he MISSED earlier in those games that could’ve rendered those “key” kicks meaningless had he made them earlier.
Instead, they brought in Gostkowski, who is just as accurate, and MUCH better on kickoffs.
Best move NE has made in years.
by cjfarls on Jul 20, 2009 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I think you are correct about Prater and November…
But as someone mentioned, this could be as much about the 80-man roster limit as anything.
Kickers are basically fungible from team-to-team. I could very well see McD thinking… okay, we’ll run Prater through the guantlet this offseason and hope he pulls through his issues. If he doesn’t, we can make a waiver wire pickup at anytime, as its not like there is really a “playbook” the kicker has to learn before he can go to work.
So it very well be that it is more critical to have other positions in the 80man pool, to learn the new playbook, etc. than it is to bring in kicker competition, especially if you think you have a guy that could work and/or you don’t really see anyone else out there that is definitively better. In constrast. Colquitt has some definite “upside” that could make him an interesting challenger to Kern… and that can justify the roster spot to bring him in for evaluation.
So yes, I was a bit surprised no competition was brought in, but with the rule change I think it is relatively understandable….
Remember, its not like he kept Webster and didn’t bring any competition for MLB… basically, is there anyone out there you think has a better upside, track record, etc. than Prater? If so, who should be released to make the roster space to bring him in for evaluation?
by cjfarls on Jul 20, 2009 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
straight to the point like Dukes, but still not leading or insulting enough.
"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton
by odarol on Jul 18, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only have one rule.
Never…EVER…mention Jamie Dukes on one of “my” threads.
lol I’ll let it slide this one time. ;-)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Jul 18, 2009 9:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
McDaniel was a kicker in HS, besides playing QB
It’s one of those tidbits that I liked. And it’s yet another reason to believe he has good overall knowledge of football, besides his experience coaching on defense and his work in personnel.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 18, 2009 7:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
and I get pooped out commuting to work every day…then again I only make about half a million less per year…..
lol, j/k. I hear you there…I am not pleased that we don’t have all new training staff in place. I don’t want to see any more pulled hammies….
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Jul 18, 2009 9:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope Prater is the real deal...
I’m still irked about the Elam trade. That was the last SB Bronco to my knowledge. Not that it makes any difference, but Elam was always a safe bet. You knew that if you absolutely needed it, he would sink a 55 yarder with plenty of room for you. Aside from that, in 07 (his last season), he won Denver 2 games. If he weren’t here, we would have been 5-11 in 2007. How’s that for reality?
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
by Joe Medina on Jul 18, 2009 12:37 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I was too...until I saw how much dough the Broncos saved by dumping him.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Jul 18, 2009 9:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess what I'm trying to say...
is if they are going to shell the money out to someone, don’t waste money on guys that are worthless, spend the money on a guy that’s almost guaranteed to win you some games throughout the season. He’s the all time highest scorer in Bronco history. I love that stat.
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
by Joe Medina on Jul 18, 2009 9:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elam was not traded, he left as an UFA.
Nalen is the last Super Bowl Bronco and he retired this offseason.
by McGeorge on Jul 18, 2009 1:20 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for clearing that up...
I still wish they would have hooked Elam up in any event…he deserved it if anyone did.
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
by Joe Medina on Jul 18, 2009 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elam
I was sorry to see him leave also, but…. He did cost an extra roster spot because he couldn’t kick off, and his home is Atlanta – he did turn down a respectable offer from the Broncos to go home and finish his career in a dome and warmer weather.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
by bradley on Jul 19, 2009 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colquitt's been dry for over a year now.
The guy’s made serious efforts to close that chapter of his life since that last arrest, and all indications are that it’s sticking. The reason that the Broncos felt comfortable bringing him in is because, during the combine, he was very candid about his mistakes and about what he’s done to correct himself since then.
But something else that’s not often mentioned is that he kicks the ball away quickly. He’s awfully hard to block and, as you noted, can put up some serious hangtime.
If you give the guy a chance to show you what he’s like as a person today, and to show you what he can do on the field, I think you’ll be very pleasantly surprised on both fronts.
by Hooper on Jul 18, 2009 1:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Give the guy a chance. If he’s really turned his life around, well, we’re all about 2nd chances in this country. If he’s another Whatshisface, the booming but belligerent, drunken punter we had a couple of years ago, then, cut him. But I would not be surprised at all to see him beat out Kern.
I also agree with McGeorge that some competition with Prater couldn’t hurt, I don’t quite understand it but it does show that they’re very high on him and think his problems correctable. I do expect him to be better this season, but another kicker in camp couldn’t have hurt, at the very least to keep him from kicking too much (based on broncobear’s comments above) in exhibition games.
by underdog on Jul 18, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could hurt,
Or at least that’s how I read Broncobears comments. Last year we had 2 kickers competing for a job, and their legs paid for it. Prater won that job, and then spent the season trying to keep it. Prater has backed up this line of thinking if I remember correctly, when he said he had been kicking as much as he could.
Prater was great early, and degraded over the course of the season. A sequence of events that make sense in light of what BB and Prater have said. If McD and Preifer also read the situation this way, then they are doing exactly what is necessary to get Prater up to speed. Specifically, make sure he is trying to take the necessary precautions with his leg so that he can maintain his best performance, rather than kicking all the time so that he can have a job.
However, it could be that McD simply forgot, ignored, or doesn’t care about the kicking game. I just don’t think it is likely. This coaching staff does not seem to operate without a plan.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Jul 18, 2009 4:09 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
and it could hurt the rest of the team
Because of the 80-man roster limit.
by cjfarls on Jul 20, 2009 8:52 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sincerely hope so...you know...
BMarsh when an entire year without smacking a woman…..then he smacked a woman.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Jul 18, 2009 9:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also theres the idea that Colquitt can kick off.
Which would be less leg movement for Prater if need be.
Quit drinking the Kool-Aid and start drinking the good stuff, and everything is always alright.
by Chuck "DeadDrunk" Breedlove on Jul 18, 2009 2:02 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Good article
and a really good discussion. I think McGeorges point on competition as very valid. No player should be handed a job in the NFL. As for the tired leg, I was going to mention the Fatsis book. I’m almost finished reading it, and there are some enlightening things told in it. As for the confidence thing, his job IS about confidence and has a lot of performance pressure. That’s in the job description. If you ain’t got it, you don’t qualify, and Hasta La Bye Bye.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 18, 2009 2:22 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Kern
Nice writeup Z but I think you are misreading Kern’s stats. As I read them, he had 46 punts – 23 of which were not returned (9 downed between the 10-20, 4 downed inside the 10, 4 touchbacks, & 6 fair catches). I believe a 50% non-return rate was the best in the NFL.
Of course that makes our 11.8 yards per return really bad.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jul 18, 2009 2:27 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I missed that.
So it was our special teams that made what I was seeing in his stats bad.
Though, I still remember a few wounded ducks he put up in the air at critical points in some games last year.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Jul 18, 2009 9:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colquitt
I didn’t read the above comments, so it may have already been said, but another factor in the signing of Colquitt, I would imagine, is the fact that Mike Preifer is the special teams coach. He came from Kansas City, so he knows the Colquitt family well, I would imagine, being that Dustin Colquitt is in KC.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
by wtnelson on Jul 18, 2009 2:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Mac D has decided on Prater to protect his leg in camp
I think Mac D agrees that Prater wore his leg out winning the job and wants to prevent that from happening this year—hence no competition. If Prater does fail during the year Mac D will have a lot of kickers that commpeted in other camps to choose from. He doesn’t need one from his own camp. I would imagine they will watch other camp’s kickers very closely. Colquitt just has the genetic loading that makes him too interesting to pass up. I liked the pickup and want to see what he can do. If is alcohol problems are under control and behind him he could be a great find. The game is still about field position and every impovement helps Orton.
by mauibroncofan on Jul 18, 2009 4:43 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Psychologically, it's an interesting question
whether the best way to improve your kicker’s performance is to bring in someone to compete with him, or give him the vote of confidence of handing him the job. Kickers and punters are different from other positions in the sense that if a kicker’s going badly, it’s possible to bring in a replacement for him late in camp or even mid-season. If Prater stinks it up in camp, you can bet that someone else will be brought in, but I suspect that McDaniels felt that he had too many other priorities during free agency and figured he’d roll the dice with Prater—for now at least…. Hopefully giving him the vote of confidence, a shiny new snapper, and the experience taking care of his kicking leg that comes from a year’s experience will turn him into a solid NFL kicker.
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington
by Broncs Cheer on Jul 18, 2009 5:20 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
indeed
I love (not really) how people cite the psychological benefit of having competition. There are instances in which competition improves performance, probably because some stress is beneficial, but it also can be counterproductive. Moderate stress improves performance while high stress harms performance.
My impression was that Prater suffered from nerves last year (as wall as leg fatigue) and his performance should improve as he gains more confidence. He appeared to be trying too hard, perhaps because he was insecure about his position since it was his first full season in the NFL.
Prater’s preseason performance was pretty amazing, so we’ve seen him in situations in which there is very little pressure and he’s done quite well. Whatever the benefits of bringing competition, he’s shown an amazing leg, and I was glad when the old staff quickly squashed rumors after the season that he’d be replaced.
It’s ironic that the signing of Paxton set off a furor because Leach had competition for the first time in years, which many people considered unnecessary. It was even cast in a negative light by some people, as if the act of bringing in competition necessarily meant that something nefarious was afoot.
I think the coaching staff’s best reason for bringing in competition should be in order to find the best athlete, which isn’t always known without some type of formal competition. But I don’t know that it’s always necessary to bring competition in to camp. They can look at some positions without actually signing the player, and the 80 man roster prevents us from having as much in-camp competition as the staff might like to have.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 18, 2009 7:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But why bring in a punter then.
Does anyone disagree that Kern had a better year than Prater? Probably not.
I believe Matt Stover is still a FA, and there were some good college kickes that went undrafted. It was inconsistent for McD to GIVE the job to Prater when Kern has to earn it like just about every other player on the roster.
But you’re right. It’s not like a kicker has to learn the playbook or anything. If Prater stinks it up again, we can cut him and pick up some scrap heap kicker any Monday week 1 thru 17.
by McGeorge on Jul 18, 2009 5:54 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
it may have been easier to find a punter than a kicker
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 18, 2009 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
I have a lot less confidence in Prater than Kern, yet punter is where we have the competition. My evaluation is that McD/Priefer know who the veteran kickers are out there. But they may not have seen any college kickers who they thought were an improvement over Prater. They may be seeing if they can get more consistency from him. If not they can sign any number of veterans.
On the punter side Colquit, with a 71 yard leg, may have just been too enticing to pass up on.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jul 18, 2009 8:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Priefer has a relationship with Colquitt's brother...
from their time in Kansas City. Kern had a good rookie year, but Colquitt is serious competition, definitely.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Jul 19, 2009 7:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
'bad Prater vs. good Prater"
is as viable a camp competition as ‘Colquit v. Kern’.
I think roster limits are a major factor here, and as mentioned above, "Colquit v. Kern’ might actually affect the placekicking battle as well, since Colquitt can kickoff, reducing the wear on Prater’s leg even further…
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 19, 2009 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
McGeorge
your beating an old horse to death. I’ll get hold of McD and have him clear everything with you. will that be aceptable. I let the broncos website because of the negativity. I don’t need it hear. I think the coaches have a pretty good handle on what needs to be done. I’m not a second guesser and no one on this site should be either. If you were as smart as McD then Bowlen would have hired you to be the HC
by papasteven on Jul 18, 2009 7:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Yawn… and yawn again.
The old “why aren’t you the coach then” routine.
I guess I can come back with the equally tired “Kool-Aid slurping lemming”.
by McGeorge on Jul 18, 2009 8:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is your problem dude?
seriously, you’re starting to sound like a troll.
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
by Joe Medina on Jul 18, 2009 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think mcgeorge is a troll
I don’t like the way he argues, but he initially makes some pretty good devil’s advocate observations. We do need that here, since we have for the most part been ignoring (typically with good reason) all opinions anti Bronco.
Sometimes he seems to be making a point of ignoring the oppositions best argument so he can continue with his own contentions, you’ll just gave to notice when the horse is dead and leave him be. There is no convincing some people.
Just be glad he brings more to the table than Dukes or Sapp.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Jul 19, 2009 12:16 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
have to notice
its tough to check my spelling on the mobile comments, it won’t let me scroll up.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Jul 19, 2009 12:33 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're in agreement
The why aren’t you the coach argument is actually pretty strong, none of us (or at least most of us) are not qualified to make NFL coaching decisions, much less second guess them.
On the other hand trusting the leader can be dangerous when trust is blind.
But if we have this argument every time someone on this sight finds fault with the coach, we would not get to read the actually interesting counter arguments that get to the heart of the issue, like BroncoBear’s reference of the Fatsis book or Colinski’s insight into the difference between 100 man squads and 80 man squads.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Jul 19, 2009 12:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy fellas...
McGeorge is raising a valid point. “No one should be” a second guesser?? We’re all second guessers, and scrutinizers, and analyzers and re-analyzers. Many of us may end up on the rosy side of the street more often than not. I do. But McGeorge’s skepticism here is not out of line. I think McD is taking a calculated risk with Prater. But could it backfire? Sure….
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington
by Broncs Cheer on Jul 19, 2009 12:03 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I could be wrong, but
I think competition is designed to bring out additional and more quality effort. The idea is to get people to try harder.
Kicking is more mental and trying to hard while in a finesse position can actually be detrimental. Hence the lack of competition. If he has the right tools, and he does, why push the envelope when all he needs is confidence. Its not like it was an effort problem.
You can argue punting is a finesse position too, but I do think effort is more of a factor in punting than it is in kicking field goals. Keeping your distance average ahead of the new hotshot rookie will force you to give it your all every single time. But keeping your made percentage up against the new hot shot rookie will magnify your mistakes and lower your confidence.
And McDaniels is consistent. When he feels he’s getting 100% from you 100% of the time and that you have the skill level required he makes it clear that you’re his guy. Look at Orton. And look at Cutler. I liked Cutler – even had a $300 jersey with his name on it – but he always rubbed me as the kind of guy that gave the minimum effort required because he was that good.
Orton is known for his effort – first guy in last guy out. And now he’s our quarterback.
Why couldn't I have been born in Denver?
by ChristianL on Jul 19, 2009 12:48 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Well said,
I like the fine line you are drawing there between kickers and punters. I also agree strongly with the Cutler Orton comparison. Orton has less raw talent than Jay, but he strives to improve, whereas Jay seems to think he can’t get better because he is already the best.
I can’t wait to see how well McD’s plan unfolds.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Jul 19, 2009 1:57 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice descriotion of competition
and quite relevant here. I would be hardpressed to become a better golfer by getting into a swinging competition with someone, until the repetition had worn me out. Elam is the resource I trust most here, and he indicated that kicking was 90% mental, numerous times. Adding Priefer to the mix seems to be how we have addressed Prater’s performance at the end of last year.
Let’s not forget development everyone. It was severly lacking in the old scheme, and it should tint our opinions of every roster move, good or bad.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 19, 2009 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
90-percent of the time
this game is half mental.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jul 19, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice analysis
I agree with you, I am somewhat surprised at signing another punter, I thought Kern had a very good year, he made several plays on bad snaps in New York to save the game, I can forgive him out kicking the coverage, it is bound to happen at Mile High, I think we had more issues with kickoff coverage and Prater wearing down at the end of the year, there is no reason that Prater shouldn’t be kicking the ball out of the end zone every time in Mile High, there is no reason any guy should even attempt a return in Mile High. That is the bigger concern for me with Prater versus the FG accuracy, I agree that should improve, but I hate when we need a KO specialist when we play half our games at altitude.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
by Broncoman on Jul 19, 2009 4:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

































