Taking a look at the San Diego Chargers.
Hey Crew,
Sorry its been a long time since I have been in the saddle. Incredibly busy with my new business, and needed a sabbatical from the growing negativity regarding our Broncos.
Anyway, as promised, here is my look at the San Diego Chargers. Take it with a grain of salt, as I am generally a blunt person and can be a tad sarcacstic.
Have at it below the jump!
SAN DIEGO IS GOING TO WIN IT ALL. THE MOST TALENTED TEAM IN THE NFL.
We have heard this about this franchise for the past 4-5 years, where results tell us that they are a vastly UNDERPERFORMING TEAM for the talent level. What needs to be considered this year is that this team is a year older, with many questions that have not been answered in free agency or the draft.
Lets take a look at the roster firstly:
1/ OFFENSE:
Hey, no doubting the chargers have a good offense. I am not going to rate it great as many MSM pundits will, but it has the makings of an offense that can dominate more often than not.
Love him or hate him, you have to respect Phillip Rivers. He did what Jay Cutler could not, and thats lead his team to the play offs while being completely under the pump. The kid has moxie and the ability to perform in the clutch situation. I rate him as one of the the Top 3 QB's in the AFC, and Top 6 in the league. He has a good back up in Billy Volek as well, who can manage a game and not be flustered. The chargers has one of the more sound QB corps in the NFL.
Moving to the running backs, you have the great LT. He WAS great, but is now nothing more than a competent performer. He has had a lot of work, and no matter what the "experts" say high mileage is taking its toll. They do have one of the best change of pace backs in the league in Darren Sproles, but his effectiveness will be limited if he is asked to be a bell cow. An injury to LT changes the dynamic in which the Chargers will use Sproles. Hester is a so - so plodder in my opinion, but is still young and could show me something this year. I do like Michael Bennett. he is quick, can run between tackles and could be good insurance for LT.
I like the TE corps that San Diego. I think Gates is slightly over rated, but still one of the best out there, but he struggled some last year and will look to bounce back in his contract year. I am actually more high on Brandon Mamaleuna than many people. His pass catching skills are vastly under rated, and he seems to come up with that clutch 3rd down conversion when no one is looking for him. Look for a little more involvement in the catching game from him, to free up Gates a little.
Which leads us to the Wide Receiving corps, which I believe is a REAL weakness of this San Diego team. Chris Chambers is considered their no 1 WR, but there was nothing I saw out of him last year that suggests he is even an average No 1 WR. He struggled for separation, has lost some speed and even had trouble in one on one match ups. Vincent Jackson came on last year, but in much the same vein as Brandon Marshall, is nothing more than an over hyped possession receiver. There is no doubting that he has upside, but has off the field issues which has sent up some red flags in San Diego. I like Malcolm Floyd. he is a serviceable no 4 and Naanee does some nice things too. Craig Davis? Hes a bust. A bad pick in the first round for the Chargers. With no true 1 WR, an average no 2 in Chambers and a couple of no 4 or 5 WR's but no true 3, puts a lot of pressure on the TE's and LT. If I am the Chargers I am taking a HARD look at Armani Toomer. This is a major worry for this team.
What to think of this line. They were VERY average last year, and with the only upside being the return of McNeill from a neck injury, but with this injury still a cause for concern with his initial effectiveness. This is another area of concern. An running game relying on the bouncing back of a 30 plus running back with a line that was below average in run blocking. Would not leave me feeling overly confident as a Chargers fan. Mike Goff will be a loss for this team at RT, with LT a question mark relying on McNeill's recovery. Not awe inspiring!
Ranking: B-. This is an offense with wuestion marks everywhere bar QB. Phillip Rivers will win some games for them, but this is a team on offense with more questions than answers. Offensively, I will take what we with our Denver Broncos.
DEFENSE:
The defensive line has many questions too. Williams anchors the line at NT, but he was anything but stellar last year, and is clearing waning due to knee issues. the loss of Olshansky cant be under estimated. Why viewed as many as vastly under performing last year, it can be argued that he was doing much more than what he had to do in the pass to make up for mobility and agility issues that Williams was having. This basically nullified his effectiveness also. The Chargers are now bringing in Ryon Bingham to replace him. He played well in spurts, but has NOWHERE NEAR proved he is starting calibre. Castillo was given a MASSIVE contract, but his play last year was more hype than substance. Lots of questions on this line too!
I am a fan of the Chargers linebacking corps. If Merriman is only half as effective as he has been, it is still an upgrade for this group, and will allow Coper, WIlhelm and Larry English to make plays. Merriman is in a contract year, and will come out balls to the wall. As always, the only thing they may limit the effectiveness is if the D Line vastly underperform., and in my opinion, this might happen.
Defensive backs are a solid bunch who are not prone to many mistakes. Cromartie played hurt (reportedly) last year with hip problems, and it will be interesting if he can bounce back to his 2007 form. Jammer is a solid and wily pro, and they have some good young talent in Cason, Ellison and also have high hopes for Hart and Weddell. I think the Chargers will see some major improvements from its defensive backs this year.
Ranking: B-. Too many questions on the D Line to make me confident that this is a Top 10 defense. It all starts in the trenches, and if the Chargers can find a way to invigorate Williams they will be OK. If Williams struggles, the Chargers D...particularly on the ground, could be gashed often.
SPECIAL TEAMS:
The San Diego Chargers have the best special teams in the NFL. With Scifres, Kaeding, Sproles and the whole unit making plays, this can be traced to why the Chargers made the post season. Rarely were the Chargers put in BAD position by their special teams. if you want to look at the REAL difference between Denver and San Diego, you need look no further. The Chargers ST has performed at a high level for the last few years, and i cant see this changing. If our Broncos could be half as good as the Chargers, i would be stoked.
Ranking: A+ No questions asked. A great unit.
COACHING STAFF:
I am a not a fan of Norv Turner as a HC. i think he is a great schemer and teacher, but I dont think Norv could motivate a thirtsy man to drink ice cold water in the desert.
I like the promotion of Riviera to DC. He is a coach that will get the most our of his D with what he has to work with.
The loss of Nunnely will be big I feel, as he was an expert in the 3-4 alignment.
CONCLUSION:
Firstly, the AFC West is going to be like the NFC West....I really feel any team could surprise. I was not high on the Chargers last year, and if anything, I have cooled even more on them. They have not really improved the team in FA or the draft. they are relying on their aging playmakers to come back from injury and enjoy a renaissance on the offensive side of the ball, and for the defensive success to be determined by a 30 something NT with gammy knees and the hope that Shawn Merriman comes back FULLY recovered from a knee that was completely shredded. I like the pick up of English, I love the Chargers Special Teams, Phillip Rivers is a stud and their DB's have some talent, but there are too many question on both lines for me to consider them a lay down misere for the AFC West. The Chargers window is closing, and this is their last year to dominate, in the minds of many. For this fan, I really feel think their chance has gone. 9-7 will win this AFC West, and Denevr can do that.
You shut down the running game, double team Gates and have a good running game of your own is the recipe to defeat these Chargers regularly.
I am hoping with our improved running game, a surprising defense and an improved special teams, we will push pass the Chargers next year.
My prediction is they finish 2nd in the AFC West this year, and 3rd or 4th the next 2 years.
Thanks for reading, and sorry about the wait!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Very good post
I agree, the Chargers window is definitely closing. I think we can take the division this year.
"Really, I'm a high-motor guy. Tough, hard-nosed, a hard runner, can make you miss at times. And just competitive. I love to play the game and I bring that energy to my team. So, we'll see how that goes." - Knowshon Moreno
Knowshon Moreno=ROY
Thanks Boydy
10 more days Bro!
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
The Chargers are a very good team, but,
we have San Diego’s Defensive Line coach Wayne Nunnely, and he knows there defensive scheme. That has to account for something. McDaniels is no fool, and he will do anything he has to to win divisional games. I think he can out match Norv Turner IMO. Can’t wait to find out. Thanks boydy for the awesome post. I hope othrs will step up and do theirs. Rec’d for sure…
Great post Boydy...
As always…
I agree with bfree that we will particularly have the upperhand (this year and beyond) as far as coaching staff…McDaniels and Nolan will out coach Turner…
I agree completely
Thanks for the teaching session. I grateful for the oportunity to continue to learn
Thanks Boydy!
I hope your prediction is right about their finishing second this season and 3rd or 4th the next couple… Though I would love to see them finish under Oakland this season and until Rivers and Sproles are both retired/traded, LoL! It’s going to be a blast and a half to watch that throwback game, bring back the days of Our dominance over the Chargers! Good analysis, thanks again!
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 21, 2009 8:29 AM MDT reply actions
I think they should trade rivers
to the Vikings for sage and chester. Just so Rivers and Cutler can continue to battle twice a year.
Lol
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 21, 2009 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions
You're not alone in that one! - Classic
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 22, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
I think the Chargers win it all-- and do so impressively.
Rivers just gets better. Merrimen has a contract year and the performance enhancing stigma to overcome. Tomlinson should have a huge chip on his shoulder. Sproles can be impossible. Chambers and Jackson are a very difficult tandem to defense. Cromartie and McNiel are coming off off years and have something to prove. Weddle gets better and better.
It seems inevitable to me, but thats just my opinion.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer
by PredominantlyOrange on Jul 21, 2009 9:54 AM MDT reply actions
No worries...
ANd thats what MHR is for.
I just say a lot of what ifs with the Chargers…almost as many as with the Bronocs yet everyone wants to have the Chargers as 12-4 minimum and us winning 6-8….makes no sense.
What if your aunty had balls she would have been your uncle…..
We will see.
Thanks always PO…love your posts and perspective!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
It's resignation...
…and not an opinion I like to have. They just feel dangerous to me…like the perfect storm.
I’d love to be wrong…hope to be wrong.
Glad to see you back.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer
by PredominantlyOrange on Jul 21, 2009 10:54 AM MDT up reply actions
In complete agreement with PdO and Ponderosa
Well said guys.
If you mean win the Super Bowl
I don’t think so. However they certainly have a good chance to win the division. They are uber talented and if they execute well, they have the advantage over the Broncos of having played 3-4 schemes before. I think the Broncos will need some time to be fluid with the many changes to presonnel and schemes. We will be better by the end of the year, but SD gets out of the blocks quickly and we play catch-up.
+1
Agreed. Both teams have questions marks, but they are different question marks. The final analysis, however, being the same… if the question marks all come together, then the teams can do well (Denver and SD). But I also agree that the Chargers will have a bit of an early advantage from a familiarity standpoint because, injured or not, their players are all familiar and experienced in their system (which also means losing Nunnely won’t necessarily be felt immediately). However, I still don’t understand how people year after year after year (especially with Turner as HC) keep seeing this team as a contender, especially now with age and injuries setting in.
The Chargers winning the Super Bowl this year? Sorry, I give them very little chance of even making it there, let alone winning it. This team has been “dangerous” for a few years and, as boydy pointed out, nothing much of significance has changed this off-season (not enough, anyway) to get them over the hump. Yes, anything can happen, but I’m fairly certain this team will once again be very competitive, but still lose some close games and ultimately might squeak into the playoffs as division champs only to be bounced out no later than the second round. Then next year we’ll all once again be hearing about how talented this team is and how they’re only a player or two away from making a Super Bowl run. Sound familiar Broncos fans?
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Jul 21, 2009 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Coaching
My standpoint on Turner is that he is always capable of getting the least out of his team. The Chargers have had for several years all star talent at every level of the game. As long as Turner is there I wouldn’t worry about them winning the big one.
Tis better not to throw it to the deep receiver but the open receiver.
Couldn't agree more.
Not to make this about knocking on Turner, but at what point is there enough proof that this guy just isn’t great a head coach? I don’t even feel like taking the time to look it up since there have been others on here (and elsewhere) who have a done a very thorough job of looking at his body of work. But I’m pretty sure his overall winning percentage is below .500 (or at least close to that). Granted, I would give him a pass on his time with the Raiders. Every coach gets that pass because some have proven they are winners elsewhere (Shanahan and Gruden, to name a couple). But Turner took over for the Chargers at, what I consider, their peak as far as talent (coming off that 14 – 2 season under Schottenheimer) and has done nothing but take their record down ever year since.
Okay, so this sort of did become about knocking on Turner, but still. I didn’t get the decision to hire him in the first place (although, as a Broncos fan, I did smile and feel immensely happy) and I definitely don’t get the decision to keep him at this point (although I’d say this year is his last shot at keeping his job). He’s proven his worth in the offensive coordinator and QB coaching roles time and time again….he’s very good at both. And by all accounts he’s one of the “nice guys” in the league and players and coaches love him. But at this point, is there ANYone who thinks he’ll ever get it done as a head coach?
By the way, it’s not lost on me that McD was a very good offensive coordinator and coach too who is now trying to be a head coach. But for anyone who wants to try to compare the two, well, that’s where the comparison begins and ends. They could not be more different in just about every other aspect of the game, coaching, personality, etc. I’m not saying that guarantees McDaniels success, only that any comparisons based on both being o-coordinators and QB coaches better have more to back it up (which will be tough to do given that McD has yet to actually coach a game as the HC).
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Jul 21, 2009 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Playing catch-up
While I agree that we will have growing pains adjusting to the new system, I don’t think the Chargers will jump out quickly making us play catch-up. If you look at their early schedule vs ours, it’s more likely they are trying to catch up to us. Here’s a likely senario of how the season could play out by week 6 (the Broncos vs Chargers week).
SD:
week 1 at Oak – W
week 2 vs Bal – L
week 3 vs Mia – L
week 4 at Pit – L
week 5 BYE —> 1-3 heading into week 6
DEN
week 1 at Cinci – W
week 2 vs Clev – W
week 3 at Oak – W
week 4 vs Dal – L
week 5 vs NE – L —> 3-2 heading into week 6
Week 6 storyline will be the Broncos have only beat weak teams and SD has played a much tougher schedule. This will be true and thankfully the Dolts will buy into it. They will overlook the lowly Broncos and we go into their old crappy stadium and show the Dolts exactly what kind of competition they have on their hands for the AFC West Title this year. We come away with a hard fought W. Heading into week 7 Broncos on top of division with a 4-2 record, Dolts embarrased and sitting at 1-4.
This senario could easily play out IMO. I could see SD beating Miami, but I could also see us beating the Cowboys. If those both happen, we would be at 5-1, while they would be at 2-3. Granted, anything can happen but looking at early schedules, I think it’s more likely they are trying to catch us, rather than us trying to catch them. Especially if we can steal that first game against them in SD.
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
You underestimate SD's WRs
Vincent Jackson is a STUD and the #1 guy in SD. Chambers is the #2 (and only so-so at that)…. this was absolutely clear the second half of the season. I don’t know if it was Champ being hurt or what, but V-Jax was knocking Champ over, running away from him, and in general embarassing Champ in the final game.
The fact that you also disparage B-Marsh too I guess explains it, but having a “possession” WR that can run over DBs, etc. is EXTREMELY valueable and creates all kinds of matchup havoc for a DEF. V-Jax is not quite as strong YAC as B-Marsh, but he has much better hands (significantly higher catch %). In the “efficiency” stats done by FootballOutsiders, V-jax is one of the tops in the league at creating first downs and points… bottom-line, I just have to whole-heartedly disagree with your assessment.
SD has a few issues on Offense, primarily the right side of the O-line and wear-and-tear on LDT. But their WRs are solid enough to matchup with any secondary in the NFL, particularly when you add Gates who is basically another big #1 WR. Compared to Denver they are much better at QB, worse at O-line (and likely at WR, but only because we are stacked). Unfortunately, QB play the big NFL equalizer, so I’d say they are no worse overall than we are…
If SD stays healthy and plays to their potential, they absolutely should again be one of the AFC’s Superbowl favorites. Their starting talent is equal or better than most any team in the NFL, and saying otherwise is the same sort of biased, non-analytical analysis we complain about in the MSM.
Luckily for us, they have a relatively lousy head coach (Turner), and are heavily reliant on some key cogs that have had health issues the past few years (Gates, LT, Merriman, Williams) that if/when slowed by age or injury quickly bring the team back to the pack.
I am not saying Denver has no chance this year… but underestimating or denigrating one of the best teams in the NFL just because they are a conference rival seems petty and disingenuous.
Jackson needs..
to put together a whole season. The last couple of years he plays so-so ball early then then seems to improve as the season progresses. He has flashes of greatness, but seems to be absent at other times. He certainly has talent, but, needs to become more consistent. He still has a way to go to be called a stud IMHO.
A statement on BM and Jackson.....
I wanted Denver to take Vincent Jackson from UNC….I am high on him. I am also high on Brandon Marshall….but I am not going to"crown their arses" after 1 and 2 seasons of performance respectively.
At present, BM is a possession WR….thats why he is working on his speed with Larry Fitzgerald and Jerry Rice…..I think BM realizes himself that he needs to have more to his game than a big body…he needs separation thru speed.
I want BM to stay, and do think Jackson will keep growing, but in no way is either an elite no 1 WR….yet.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Norv Turner is predictive just as Shanahan was in the last few years.
And why Spanos hangs on with this guy is beyond me. We have you DL coach, Wayne Nunnely and he knows the defense and offense, so the marbles are on the table, and we will see how all of this pans out. I’m going out on a limb and projecting double victories with you guys. Never can tell, one of us will be right, regardless. McDaniels wouldn’t have it any other way, it’s balls to the wall with guy, win or lose.
It's a wonder you don't get pummeled with moth balls boydy.
Vincent Jackson came on last year, but in much the same vein as Brandon Marshall, is nothing more than an over hyped possession receiver.
I will agree to disagree about these 2. The off field issues are a great concern that cannot be over looked, but they are a threat to change any game they are in.
If LDT goes down they will suffer and I am not sure Michael Bennett could make up the difference. If they have to relie on Sproles, Gates will be the main target then. BDawk may have a field day with him.
bfree...see comments above....
I am just not going to call these guys elite yet….do you honestly think they are comparable to Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Randy Moss etc.
They both have mad upside, but they need to show me more than what they have for ME to consider them elite no 1 WR’s.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Absolutely do I think V-Jax is in that group
In the advanced stats at FootballOutsiders, Vincent Jackson had the 4th higher “DYAR” total of any WR in the NFL last year, behind only Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and Roddy White. DYAR is a counting stat that basically aggregates “success” points for significant chunks of yardage (>40% on 1st down and >65% on 2nd down), first downs, and points… adjusted for defensive strength and “league average” performance.
If you move away from aggregate totals, on a per play basis V-Jax was the 2nd rated WR at 22% better than “average” in the whole NFL (ahead of all the guys you mentioned), so its also not that he was simply racking up lots of meaningless small successes… the man was a machine at creating first downs and points for SD.
Now B-Marsh, you have a point… he was only about 25th in the DYAR stat, and was actually slightly below average on a per play basis… But V-Jax absolutely is a STUD, both in traditional (over 1000 yards receiving) and advanced stats.
BTW, what is difference between B-Marsh, vs V-JAX and the others you mention
Its catch percentage… i.e. how many completions does he make for a given number of passes.
FootballOutsiders has looked at WR catch rates, and the catch percentage for a particular WR tends to be relatively steady, regardless of who the QB throwing to them is (they determined this by watching catch rates for teams with QB injuries, etc.)… WRs can however improve over time, so B-Marsh still has the possibility of improving.
However, for now B-Marsh has a relatively low catch% compared to other WRs, meaning that he’s dropping and/or not adjusting to balls in the air well compared to other receivers. Consequently, each of his “misses” hurts his per play success rate. (Chris Chambers has the same problem).
Some of this has to do with the types of routes they run (i.e. you’d expect someone like Welker who runs short routes to have a higher % than a guy who runs mainly deep routes), but even this doesn’t help B-Marsh much because he ran a lot of short screens, slants, etc. that should have bolstered his catch %.
one final note
Eddie Royal actually scored better on both the advanced stats, and MUCH better on catch rate than B-Marsh did…
Now, I’m not saying Eddie is a better WR than B-Marsh, as he largely was doing this against #2 CBs vs. B-Marsh… and his “traditional” stats were worse. But he does do SOME things better than B-Marsh.
I do think it just portends REALLY good things for the Denver offese however, regardless of whether B-Marsh comes to play this year or not.
Over 1000 yards isn't really an over-hyped possession receiver
It’s one of the better receivers in the game.
Mike Goff will be a loss for this team at RT
He might have been, except that he plays at guard and had a flat out dreadful year last season. H was the weakest link the the O line and the Chiefs are probably welcome to him.
the loss of Olshansky can’t be under estimated
I’m not sure why. He also had a terrible year last year. The change of scenery might do him good, but he was trouble in the locker room and played poorly on the field. That’s why they were playing Ryon Bingham.
Wh(ile) viewed as many as vastly under performing last year, it can be argued that he was doing much more than what he had to do in the pass to make up for mobility and agility issues that Williams was having
Interesting perspective. I’d have to add that he was taking plays off and played badly too often. The thing on Williams may have been true earlier in the season, but he played very well later – when they started benching Olshansky. The whole D line played very well during the second half of the season, after Rivera changed the ‘bend don’t break approach of Cottrell and started getting aggressive.
I would love to see Denver play them hard and win one or both games. I don’t tend to down-play good teams even when they are rivals, though. These guys are very good. I’m going to be interested to see if they can sustain it for 16 games, though. That’s been their Achilles heel. I don’t see them as SB winners, but they are, right now, probably a step up from Denver, sad as that makes me.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
True, but don't you think bear that the loss of Nunnely on the DLine is a blow they will have to contend with?
I see a Broncos DLine that could be much better than they were last year. Better players, better coaching and better scheme of play. Maybe I am being too optimistic, but the things I see happening are way better, at least IMO.
by bfree2bronc on Jul 21, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
On the Broncos - sure
This is where things get confused at times – the fact that I see the Broncos as improving doesn’t bear, pardon the pun, on the fact that SD is a very good team. Of course I see Denver as getting better, but until we beat them, they are the top of the division. I just don’t agree that (essentially, because they are a rival) that they are toothless or vulnerable. I wish that they were.
Regarding Nunnely – perhaps it will weaken them, but probably not. Rivera wanted guys that he worked with in the past to implement his scheme, and that scheme make a huge difference for the better last season – that’s what turned their team around. Nunnely is a great coach and I’m very glad to have him. However – the essential personnel have already benefited from Nunnely’s talent. They will be using the Rivera schemes, and his coaches are all very high-quality folks. As HT pointed out in His Modern 3-4 Defense article – any quality coach can coach either system.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
Agreed
The Chargers really played much better defense after Rivera took over. I don’t underestimate them at all.
just an FYI, there are already SD fans who want Rivera to take over as head coach
Norv just can’t get any love.
Is it just because of Rivera's
resurrection of the D last year, or is it more about hatin on the Norvell?
Where is Brian?
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 23, 2009 4:10 AM MDT up reply actions
What I've read out here is about 50/50
Turner wasn’t popular when Brian was summarily canned after a 14-2 season and the fact that they haven’t done that well since isn’t playing well either. But Rivera took over a d that was playing hesitant and soft and turned them around. There is a lot of belief that he can bring that same kind of intensity to the offense. After watching a lot of good DCs tank it when they became HCs, I think that he’s probably where he can do the team the most good, but opinions, as always, vary. If SD doesn’t come out of the gate playing well, Turner may be in serious trouble. If they do well early on, though, I suspect that he’s unlikely to go, since it was AJs call to bring him on in the firs place.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
thanks
i’m glad I got to see the link for that modern 3-4 article by ht….very good.
on your point about Nunnely’s loss being marginal, I think you’re missing something. I also think you are taking HT’s point of coaches incorrectly or else I disagree with HT.
I think you’re missing that Rivera’s coaching changes are SIGNIFICANT changes and will result in either boom or bust. And the the jury is still out on how good Rivera is. Second, coaches can’t be indifferent to coaching a 3-4 or 4-3 when so many do not change. This is the NFL, while coaches at a lower level can switch, at the highest level, there is a reason coaches stick to their specific Def/Off…….its experience and experience provides wisdom and deep, deep knowledge about a system and tactics of that system (not just on an X/O level, but when it comes to understanding how personnel effect the system). At the highest level, coaches that continually swtich don’t develop the deep knowledge of exactly what helps their system work. As they face the best, it becomes apparent that they are not experts, but pretenders. My prediction is that Rivera is found out to be a pretender. Why, because I think its reasonable to believe that Rivera, while working for L. Smith and in a T. Cottrell Defense he could only change marginally, may not understand EXACTLY what the burden of being the top dog really requires in competence/decisionmaking.
For instance, I will bet last year that Rivera wanted to do some things on D that guys like Nunnely and others said, “Wait, thats a bad idea b/c???” This year, there will be no one there to do that and certainly no one with what I would describe as deep, deep knowledge of a 3-4 defense.
But, as I said, the jury is out on Rivera and he could know EXACTLY what he is doing.
by BideshiBronco on Jul 21, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Good points Bideshi....I never looked at it that way!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
This is true bear, and the final debate will held on the field of play.
Who can out wit who, and I’ll be the first to say that San Diegio is a very fine team. I’m only saying they are not unbeatable. I have the confidence in McDaniels to out smart Norv Turner, and that will be the difference, or not.
Thanks Doc...
I just see things a little differently.
They are the favorites, but I dont think the difference between the Chargers and us is much at all. In fact, I see that they have come back to the field a little. I will be greatly interested to see the first game of the season between oakland and san diego. Looking from outside in, I like what Oakland has done, and I dont see anything that the Chargers have done that wows me. I am almost picking an upset right here: Oakland over the Chargers.
Look, if all their guys come back at 100%, LT and Williams can stave off father time, then they will be good…..but I honestly dont think that either guys has much left in the tank……and I dont like the Chargers O line at all.
Their 2 lines are suspect, and their success has been SO predicated on being good in the trenches.
We will see>
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
This I agree with...
SD is highly reliant on a few key players that make their scheme go… Gates, LT, Merriman and Williams… and all 4 are facing injuries and/or father time.
But if 3 out of 4 of those guys stays healthy and productive, SD is a VERY dangerous team… I guess it all runs to what you think the likelihood of that happening is….
One thing is certain, the games between the Broncos and Chargers should exciting to watch this year.
LaDamian Tomlinson will have a come back type year, I have a feeling. He is too gifted not to.
key players are motivated
Check out some of SD’s pending FAs (shamelessly ripped from a BFTB post):
Philip Rivers – 2010
Shawne Merriman – 2010
Vincent Jackson – 2010
Marcus McNeill – 2010
Darren Sproles – 2010
Stephen Cooper – 2011
Antonio Cromartie – 2011
Antonio Gates – 2011
Jamal Williams – 2011
That’s a lot of talent playing with an eye toward their next contract. I’m not getting my hopes up too high that this is the year that Denver returns to dominance. The bright side is that they won’t be able to keep all of these key players, so if the new regime is running on all cylinders in a couple of years, the Broncos should be in good shape.
Hey Coastal...
Thanks for the cool post.
I dont think Denver will return to dominance…..I dont think any team in our division will. This is going to be a lot like the NFC West of last year.
Oakland has improved, Denver has improved, Chiefs have improved…although still in a little more of a rebuild than us and the raiders, and the Chargers have continued to tread water and have moved back to the field a little bit.
If you asked me which team i would rather have between the Chargers and us, even now, I would say Denver as the upside and potential, in my opinion, is markedly better than with san Diego.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Prediction
My prediction for SD is that they fire Turner and hire Shanahan at the end of the season. At any rate it will be Turners last as a NFL HC.
"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me
That's possible I suppose....
but, I think he goes to Dallas and replaces Phillips just like he did in Denver.
I expect the winner of the AFC West to be 9-7 or 10 - 6....
And I cant tell you who that will be…..I honestly think the division is a lot closer than many expect. We could have team that are 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, 6 – 10, 10 – 6…..it will be close!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I'll be honest with everyone here, and I've heard the old story that we have a tough schedule,
but most of the Broncos players have seen these teams before and there might be an advantage to that. Goodman and Hill have seen most of the AFC East, BDawk has seen the NFC East, Andra Davis has seen the AFC North, Darrell Reid has seen the AFC South, and so on… The talent that McDaniels added to the team this year was for a reason. We are not talking about a dumb, stupid coach. He has a plan to win and it is now!!!
agree with your prediction
I think SD has been playing beyond where they are truly at because they have so many studs. The points about contract years would make me think that these players are gonna do it again. However, they were one Denver win away from their offseason being like our offseason. The funny thing is that I see a lot of comments that this offseason for Denver is far better than us all pretending that we will be better in ’09 after an ’08 playoff loss and no changes in the offseason.
I think SD is in the position that we would have been had we won 1 of the last 3 games. They have significant issues that are not addressed. While your personnel issues are important, I think the biggest are in the coaching dept. Rivera is completely unproven in a 3-4 and could be in over his head since the whole staff is now 4-3 guys. His performance late last year demonstrates his ability to tinker well, not scheme, game plan, and teach as the top dog. Why? That defense could not be overhauled. Now though, its looking at an overhaul from the coaching perspective. If you think thats minor, then wait until people start saying they don’t know what D they are running.
Finally, the SD players have a lack of confidence in these coaches that will come out if they can’t overperform. When that happens……the &*%$ hits the fan boys.
That's fair
I think SD is in the position that we would have been had we won 1 of the last 3 games
Sure – but in the position that we would have been if we had only won 2 out of our last 5. The problem is, we couldn’t. In our 2nd head to head we didn’t even take the field and we dropped 4 of 5. On the other hand, the Chargers turned their season around when Rivera took over the defense. Not to pat him on the back, but it’s interesting that so many are questioning him when it was his changes to their 3-4 that turned their season around, while we dropped like a duck when we didn’t get some helpful calls. This is why I tend to think that SD isn’t as weak as many think, but I can still hope that I’m wrong
Hillis/Moreno in '09
Exactly
I like the defense with Merriman coming back and English coming in to spell Merriman/Phillips, some formations may try to sneak all three of them in. The Kevin Burnett pickup is great too; he is supposed to cover well; tight ends chewed us apart last year. Wilhelm is gone by the way, Dobbins took the starting job midway through last season. He and Burnett are expected to battle for playing time. Vasquez and Martin are interesting too; but I’m not really expecting too much from them this year.
Just to quibble some with all Norv bashing as well; Rivers didn’t just evolve on his own. This offense was all LT and Gates when Marty was running the team. It’s much more balanced now. Last year Gates and LT were not 100% most of the year, under Marty that would have spelled disaster, but Norv has put together an offense with many more threats and taught Rivers to work them all. People forget that Alex Smith took a quantum jump in SF under Norv’s coaching; but they ignore that to go with the conventional wisdom that he can’t coach. Now it’s fair enough to say the defense underperformed, but they got better after Cottrell was cut loose and will get better still when Merriman suits back up.
Finally, Jamal was much better than most here credit him for. He had a few bad games early on, but there were a number of goal line stands where he absolutely mauled the opposing line; between him and Siler it was tough running inside the 10. Oh, and cjfarls is dead on with the receivers. I can’t believe you guys watched VJ lay out for that pass in the second matchup and then talk him down; fair enough on the off-field stuff. Naanee and Floyd look to have great talent; even Buster showed flashes but can’t stay on the field.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Jul 24, 2009 11:57 PM MDT up reply actions
i agree with most of this
i am skin of the msm pimping sd to be this super team grander they are good but i think turner is their biggst weakness i have a theroy the msm wants sd to do well because they want that 80 weahter in jan most of the media hates being in cold wet stuff sd is weather porn i think sd is a 10-6 team and we are a 9-7 team for now i need to see denver in trainning camp to make a better judment
well done & well worth a rec'd
thanks boydy, once again you set a high standard in concise analysis for all of us.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

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