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2009 Denver Broncos - Breaking Down the Roster - Defensive Ends

Photo

More photos » David Zalubowski - AP

While quarterback may be the position with the most noteworthy change for the Denver Broncos, it is on defense where the most alterations have occurred to the roster. The starting defense will feature as many as 9 new faces, with only Champ Bailey and D.J. Williams assured to remain atop the depth chart. Elvis Dumervil, Kenny Peterson and Marcus Thomas could join that short list, but that's far from a sure thing.

Of course, the vast roster turnover has several causes at root; the Broncos' defense was nothing less than atrocious over the past two years. Poor personnel decisions by Mike Shanahan and Co. left the defensive roster with plenty of holes, with injuries in 2008 forcing such luminaries as Calvin Lowry and Roderick Rogers into the starting lineup. The result? A paltry 25 sacks and 13 turnovers generated by the 2008 defense. The Broncos allowed 30 or more points 6 times in 2007, and 9 times in 2008. Over the past two seasons, Denver has given up a staggering 857 points; only Detroit and St. Louis fared worse. For even more perspective, Pittsburgh allowed 365 fewer points than Denver over that period.

Although this may come across as beating a dead horse, there is an important point; despite the protestations of football prognosticators, so-called experts, and even Mike Shanahan himself the other day, things were really bad with the Broncos' defense, and this was not isolated to 2008. It would not be so simple to fix the defense, and Shanny displayed no prior ability to do so himself. Unless you are either an elephant or a masochist, you probably cannot recall the names of all the failed free-agent signings and defensive coordinators gone by.

Star-divide

Josh McDaniels and Brian Xanders have necessarily remade the roster, and promptly decided not to bring back veterans Ebenezer Ekuban (not re-signed) and John Engelberger (released). Darrell Reid was signed away from Indianapolis, while Kenny Peterson received a new three-year contract. Robert Ayers was drafted at #18, and Rulon Davis and Everette Pedescleaux were added as undrafted free agents.

Mike Nolan returns to Denver and hopes to revive the defense by switching over to a 3-4 hybrid scheme. This changeover in the base defense resulted in several players getting kicked back from DE to LB - holdovers Dumervil, Tim Crowder and Jarvis Moss. Ayers and Reid are expected to join the trio as a group of "hybrid" linebackers/ends.

Jets DE Marques Douglas, who played under Nolan in SF and Baltimore, had the following to say about Nolan's scheme in an interview with broncotalk.net:

"His defense is more of an attacking, penetration defense that utilizes speed and athleticism, not necessarily size. It is a style of defense that can bring about big plays and also extend the careers of players. It is different than a one-gap defense that you see in a 4-3. At its basic package, it is a two-gap defense. When it gets switched up, you will see a lot of slanting and movement in and out of the gaps...He knows how to game plan and he knows how and where to put players in order for them to succeed. He brings a sense of youth and enthusiasm to the field that not all coaches have."

Earlier this offseason, Hoosierteacher noted that "the defensive line must be more physical in a 3-4 than a 4-3...The number one most important trait, bar none, for a DE in a 3-4 is explosiveness...the ends pick up a skill set not seen as often in the 4-3; walling off an offensive lineman to allow the LB a lane for the blitz...the job of the DEs in the 3-4 is more often the occupation of offensive linemen and not the tackles and sacks of the 4-3 DEs, the 3-4 DEs get much less appreciation despite their vital role."

That last note is crucial; Richard Seymour is seen by many as the top 3-4 end in the NFL, yet he has totaled only 39 sacks over eight seasons. His linemate Ty Warren has but 19.5 sacks over six seasons. In other words, don't look to the following players for big sack numbers; the pass rush will come from the linebackers. The job of these men is to tie up blockers and keep the linebackers clean.


Ayers_robert_mug09_medium

Robert Ayers

#56 / Defensive End / Denver Broncos

6-3

272

Sep 06, 1985

Tennessee

Rookie

2009 Draft (1st Round, 18th Overall)

Unsigned


Ayers was the Broncos' second choice in the first round, taken 18th overall with one of the picks acquired for Jay Cutler. Robert's supposedly limited body of work has elicited reactions ranging from "one-year wonder" from some evaluators, to Mike Mayock calling him the "best defensive player" in the 2009 Draft. For what it's worth, Ayers' successes at Tennessee are not confined to his senior year, at least not statistically; in his junior year, Ayers racked up 34 tackles, 4 sacks, and 12 tackles for loss in 14 games despite not starting. As a senior, Robert tallied 49 tackles, 3 sacks, 15.5 tackles for loss, and one interception in 12 starts.

The Sporting News' War Room wrote, "Ayers showed his worth this year when he won several battles against Alabama's Andre Smith, one of the draft's top offensive tackle prospects. He has all the characteristics to be productive against the run and pass. While Ayers isn't likely to be drafted as high as he's rated here (even after his strong week at the Senior Bowl), in time he'll prove to be an impressive NFL starter at either defensive end or outside linebacker."

Robert is expected to play a versatile role in the Denver defense, playing at times with his hand on the ground as an end and at others as an OLB. Considering the state of Denver's 2008 defense, one has to think McDaniels and Xanders selected Ayers with the intention of starting him this year, if not from Week 1 then at some point during the season.

Consider Joe Flacco's rookie contract (five years, $11.9 million with $8.75 million guaranteed), add about 10% and you're looking at Ayers' likely deal if he gets a five-year agreement. Ayers is a lock to make the team. Robert has had his share of injuries, including a torn labrum and a broken hand; he turns 24 just before the season starts. To honor his fellow Volunteer, Ayers will be wearing Al Wilson's old #56.


Peterson_kenny_mug07_medium

Kenny Peterson

#90 / Defensive End / Denver Broncos

6-3

300

Nov 21, 1978

Ohio State

7th Year

Signed as Free Agent 2006 (Green Bay)

3/4/2009: Signed a three-year contract. Terms not disclosed.


Peterson enters his fourth year with the Broncos after spending the first three years of his career in Green Bay (drafted 2003 - 3rd round, 79th overall). Kenny notched 24 tackles and three sacks in 2008, playing in all 16 games including 1 start. However, all three of his sacks came within the first six games of the season, and he did not generate a tackle in 6 of the 16 games he played in.

Scouts, Inc. says Peterson, "is a bit of a tweener because he lacks the explosive quickness off the edge and acceleration around the corner to be an effective pass-rusher. He is not real responsible because he will freelance at times and gives up big running lanes when he should be trying to stack things up at the point of attack. He does do a very good job of using his hands to shed blockers quickly and ends up being engulfed way too often. He is not real quick to read blocking schemes and is not real quick to locate the level of the ball."

A native of Canton, Ohio, Peterson went to the same high school (McKinley) as Coach McDaniels, and was a teammate of Broncos offensive assistant Ben McDaniels, who was McKinley's quarterback. Kenny has been released several times over his career, once by Green Bay and twice by the Broncos. He was suspended for 4 games in 2007 for violating the NFL's policy banning anabolic steroids and related substances.

As the only veteran in this group, Peterson is a virtual lock to make the roster; Denver's decision to give him a new three-year deal certainly matches that thinking. Kenny turns 31 the day before Denver's Week 11 game versus the Chargers.


Mcbean_ryan_mug09_medium

Ryan McBean

#98 / Defensive End / Denver Broncos

6-5

297

Apr 23, 1984

Oklahoma State

2nd Year

Signed to Practice Squad on 9/1/08

12/29/08: Signed to a future contract


Ryan McBean was born in Kingston, Jamaica and started 23 of 24 games for Oklahoma State after spending two years at Hinds Community College. Originally drafted by Pittsburgh in the fourth round (132nd overall) of the 2007 Draft, McBean spent all of 2008 on Denver's practice squad.

Scouts, Inc. wrote of McBean, "He is a powerful tackler and flashes a mean streak in his play. He will need to get stronger in both his upper and lower body to hold the point. Needs to work on his hand placement and fire out of his stance lower with more consistency. He can play too tall at times and also doesn't protect his legs real well."

Quite frankly, McBean is much an unknown quantity at the NFL level; he has only appeared in one game, dressing for the final game of the Steelers' 2007 season. Therefore, it is hard to predict whether he will make the Broncos' roster in 2009. Clearly, his contract will not be a factor; Ryan turned 25 just before the most recent draft.


Davis_rulon_mug09_medium

Rulon Davis

#65 / Defensive End / Denver Broncos

6-5

283

Jan 16, 1983

California

Rookie

Undrafted Free Agent 2009

Undisclosed.


Davis arrived in Denver as an undrafted free agent signed out of Cal, and his name alone immediately garnered positive feelings from Broncos fans everywhere. Despite being a Chargers fan, Rulon's father was so enamored with the play of Broncos legend Rulon Jones that he decided to name his son after the Denver sack man. Like Mike Anderson before him, Davis is an older rookie as a result of his time with the Marines (Davis spent six months in Iraq in 2004). Rulon appeared in 9 games (7 starts) at Cal during his senior year, totaling 19 tackles, 4 sacks and 2 forced fumbles.

Last winter, Scouts, Inc.'s Todd McShay wrote of Davis, "We fell in love with his potential while breaking down his pre-season tape last summer and he continued to flash special qualities early in 2008." Meanwhile, Scott Wright of draftcountdown.com wrote that Davis is a "powerful tackler" with a "non-stop motor" but possesses "below-average speed and quickness," summing him up as an "interesting prospect with the ability to be a left defensive end in a 4-3 defense or possibly even a five-technique in a 3-4 scheme."

Rulon missed five games as a senior due to a foot injury. Durability is a concern, as he only played 21 games over three years at Cal. Davis surely received a small signing bonus as a CFA, so money will not be a factor in his roster decision. Rulon turned 26 in June.


Pedescleaux_everette_mug09_medium

Everette Pedescleaux

#64 / Defensive End / Denver Broncos

6-4

312

Jan 19, 1985

Northern Arizona

Rookie

Undrafted Free Agent 2009

Undisclosed.


During his senior year at Northern Iowa, Denver's undrafted rookie signing notched 62 tackles, 11.5 tackles for loss and 6.5 sacks.

Wes Bunting called Everette one of his Sleeper Prospects, writing "his skill set, size and length scream 3-4 DE. He is still raw and will need some time to develop his strength and overall technique. But the guy has one of the most intriguing skill sets of any defensive lineman in the draft, and I can’t imagine a team not taking a flier on him in the later rounds. He simply possesses too much upside and potential."

Be sure to check out broncobear's Tales from the Sunnyside on Pedescleaux. Everette doesn't sound like starting material, and it will be interesting to see whether Denver is able to hide him on the practice squad. If Pedescleaux does manage to make the roster, expect him to see limited action until he exhibits the discipline required to play a 5-technique end in the NFL.

Also a skilled hoopster, Everette was named Minnesota's "Mr. Basketball" in 2004; he will turn 24 after the regular season.


Clemons_mug_08_medium

Nic Clemons

#93 / Defensive End / Denver Broncos

6-6

300

Feb 03, 1980

Georgia

3rd Year

Free Agent 2007 (Atlanta)

2009: $460,000, 2010: Free Agent


Nic Clemons played in 10 games for Denver in 2008, totaling 13 tackles and 1 pass defensed. He had been signed by the Broncos on the final day of 2007 to a futures contract, following several stints with the Redskins and one with the Falcons. Prior to 2008, his only NFL action came during 8 games with Washington in 2005.

Nic's younger brother Chris plays DE for the Eagles, while his uncle Charlie played seven seasons for three different teams. Despite coming from a football family, Nic did not pick up the game until his time at Georgia Military College, later playing in seven games over two years at the University of Georgia. Clemons turned 29 in February.

Overall Outlook

Quite frankly, there are a lot of unknowns along the Broncos' defensive line. From any vantage point, this is a group with limited NFL experience and marginal results. But save Ayers and Davis, it is a group of 300-pound (or so) players who will be expected to occupy blockers and make the job of Denver's linebackers easier; it's not a group which will be asked to produce big numbers in the sacks column. Ayers and Peterson are the only locks to make the roster, and figure that two more out of McBean, Clemons, Pedescleaux and Davis will join them; the latter two are practice squad candidates. It will be interesting to see whether the Broncos make any late veteran additions along the lines of Vonnie Holliday.

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Well, I guess my one comment would be that I don't think Ayers will be spending much of any time at DE

It seems like they are pretty much planning on him being an OLB, I think he is not really built to be a 3-4 end to begin with, too short and too small, I am confused as to why Thomas is not on here, to me he makes more sense as an end than a NT.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman

by Broncoman on Jul 21, 2009 11:43 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

That was my thinking too Broncoman.

The same for Elvis, they are too short for the 3-4 scheme and may excel in the OLB role.

by bfree2bronc on Jul 21, 2009 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

so you are one of those who says

Elvis cant play a position? ha ha I think they said the same thing about him transitioning to the pro game!

http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Jul 21, 2009 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, only that he is a little short to play DE 3-4.

I believe he will translate into the OLB smoothly and make a big impact this year. He was probably put out of position in Shanahan’s system and scheme. He may have a 20 sack season.

by bfree2bronc on Jul 21, 2009 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

ha ha

I was only pointing out he has been told stuff like that FOREVER!

http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif

"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Jul 22, 2009 2:08 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kind of like saying Bob Sanders is too short to play Strong Safety, huh?

 Bob Sanders | #21 | SS

Indianapolis Colts | Official Team Site

Height: 5-8 Weight: 206 Age: 28

Born: 2/24/1981 Erie , PA

College: Iowa

Experience: 6th season

High School: Cathedral Prep [Erie, PA

by bfree2bronc on Jul 22, 2009 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

In fairness to Bear...

Becaue we’re running a hybrid scheme with the 3-4, it is exceedingly difficult to know where some players will fit in. If we are going to be an attacking 3-4 (1 gap), perhaps Doom could play at DE. Ayers fits the mold for DE in either a 1 or 2 gap. However, I think Doom will move to OLB, and Ayers could play either. Bear is covering his bases.

In other words, if a player might play at DE, let’s let the author clue us in on what that player would bring to the team.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jul 21, 2009 7:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, I meant NYC (not Bear).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jul 21, 2009 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Robert Ayers vs. Andre Smith

Funny because we will probably see that matchup again week 1 vs. the bengals.

by Whosbob89 on Jul 21, 2009 11:54 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Well done!

A couple of notes – first, there is a Tales on Rulon Davis if anyone is interested.

I also wanted to address the issue on Ayers at DE. The reason that he is being discussed at both DE and LB is that Coach McDaniels said that he wants to give him a chance to bulk up some and to be able play at either position. Whether or not we agree, that’s what the team is talking about.

The second reason is this – folks tend to think of our defense as a ‘3-4’ but several sources including Nolan and McDaniels have noted that we will play different fronts on different weeks or on different plays situationally. You might also enjoy SWG’s article on the hybrid defenses since it covers some of the permutations that we may be using. Ayers can put his hand down as a 4-3 hybrid DE.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 21, 2009 12:20 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You stole my comment..

From what I ahve been reading all off season, it looks like Ayers will be at OLB when in the 3-4, but taking an end position when they switch to a 4-3 look. The fact that he beat good tackles like step children in both his regualr games last season and in the senior bowl seems to indicate that he can handle those duties well.

but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him at OLB 2/3 of the time and look a lot like LT (the original) in the way he lines up and plays.

by AlanC on Jul 21, 2009 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I couldn't help myself

There was a salmon on it….

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 21, 2009 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Next time...

take the salmon and leave the comment! LOL!

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
Just click your heels together three times and say, "There's no player like Hillis... there's no player like Hillis."

by BroncTastic on Jul 21, 2009 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: Ayers at DE

I’m not sure if I completely follow this discussion.

I like keep the official site open; Ayers ’IS" a DE, or to put another way, the OLB/DE position is one position. They used to — until today, I think — also list the DEs, along with the DTs and a few DLs (a carry over from last year), but OLB position and DE(43?) are the same position.

I’m not sure if we’re all speaking the same language. I don’t expect they’ll keep more the 6 or 7 DLs, and I don’t know if Ayers will be part of the DL rotation. There will be times (I predict) that we’ll see Ayers as a de facto DE, but that’s hardly surprising since they list him AS ONE (not much of a prediction on my part here).

I think some of the confusion is over whether he’ll be used like a DE34, and I really don’t know, but he’ll certainly be used like a DE43! And so will some others.

"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas

by Colinski on Jul 22, 2009 7:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Colinski

I probably should have addressed this either in the original post or in earlier comments, but you are spot on, as usual. It is hard (at this point) to put guys in a “DE” or “LB” bucket without really knowing what will happen. So, we based our allocations upon what the Broncos’ website says.

by Douglas A. Lee on Jul 23, 2009 7:44 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is something I've been wondering about

I keep reading that he’ll be an OLB but will sometimes “put his hand in the dirt” as a DE. I keep wondering if that means he’ll also line up at 3-4 DE sometimes or if it just means that at times he’ll move up to the line from his LB position, put his hand in the dirt, and become a fourth linemnan? broncobear seems to be saying 3-4 DE and you seem to be saying fourth lineman. Maybe you’re both right.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jul 22, 2009 3:38 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both could be

We haven’t seen the schemes that they are considering yet. We know that the 3-4 designation is the goal we are working towards, but that different looks will be used.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 22, 2009 5:49 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

My question would be, why have him "bulk up" to play LB

At 270 lbs, he already is a very large LB, I can’t see him adding more mass and gaining any speed to help as an OLB. As noted, he is not what I would call a speed demon to begin with, he has good quickness at the point of attack, but as can be seen by his sack numbers, he isn’t that ideal speed rusher. Again, I could see him playing some spot duty on passing downs as a DE or even move him to NT on passing downs to hopefully beat the center like Arizona did with Dockett in the SB, but I think those will be limited applications, I really see them trying to keep him around 270 and have him be a OLB.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman

by Broncoman on Jul 21, 2009 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they see him as an Adallius Thomas type...

Playing an elephant role. I heard they want him up to about the 285 – 290 range so he can play DE as well.

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Jul 21, 2009 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

One of the problems that a lot of fans are having is the issue of trying to fit the system that they are most familiar with – the 4-3 – into the new paradigm. This is not ONLY a 3-4. Players are not ONLY LBs – the word has different meanings dependent on the specifics of down, distance and scheme response. If the question is “Why have someone gain weight to be a SAM”, it’s a very good question. But in this setting, an Elephant role can be played by various body-types. Which role he will play will, if what McD says carries through, be varied by the circumstance and the response of the specific scheme for that circumstance.

Of course, the fact that he has the frame for it doesn’t mean that he will be able to gain it, keep his speed and quickness and keep the weight on, all of which we will find out over time.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 21, 2009 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excuse my ignorance

But what is an Elephant role.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Jul 21, 2009 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

elephants, predators, etc.

There isn’t a lot out there on the subject, and you may try looking it up under the different names that teams use for their R-OLB. Someone else can help you on this, I don’t remember them all.

http://bit.ly/1nM9C

You should also familiarize youself with Paras Haralson since he’s a good example and was drafted & developed under Nolan.

"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas

by Colinski on Jul 22, 2009 8:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

more

A lot of stuff written about hybrid schemes and players is useful. This is yet another one about Nolan and the 49ers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=2540186

"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas

by Colinski on Jul 22, 2009 8:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

also USC

http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/usc_elephant_defense.html

"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas

by Colinski on Jul 22, 2009 8:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice links, Colinski

Thanks!

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 23, 2009 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

good thing colinski answered first

I was going to say a little sauteed portabello mushrooms, red peppers, raw peanuts (slivered), nori, top with avocado, a little shoyu and wasabi, and down the hatch….

I would have been WRONG!

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 23, 2009 3:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ayers on passing downs

I expect they’ll move Ayers inside on passing downs. He would be too quick for the interior OL to handle. He is about the same physique as Justin Tuck and could be as dominating. It took Tuck a couple years to develop into a dominant force, so we shouldn’t expect too much from Ayers the first year. He’s got tremendous upside though.

by BuckarooBanzai on Jul 21, 2009 11:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Tuck is 6' 5", though they weigh the same

But I would agree that it would probably be wise to try to move him inside on passing downs since he doesn’t have the elite speed to be a consistent hand down edge rusher (like say Freeny or Merriman), he will need to beat the guy with short area quickness and some power.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman

by Broncoman on Jul 22, 2009 1:10 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

3/4 defense

I am not certain, but I beleive Davis is the only DL with any 34 experience, Cal ran the 34 for the last 2 years.

by ogbroncofan on Jul 21, 2009 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to figure out the front seven

Agree that Ayers is more likely to play OLB than DE, and I think Thomas and Powell are both more likely to make the team at DE than at NT, but who knows? Not even sure Nolan or McD do at this point. Training camp will be interesting as all this sorts itself out. Good job on analyzing the palyers you did, NYC!

by DCbroncfan on Jul 21, 2009 12:23 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this too...

Even though they have Thomas bulking up, I think he will be at DE more than he will at the DT position…. but again its not only versatility of players, but the abiltiy to deny the other teams the luxury of planning on seeing any one player at any one position in any given situation….It will make soem OCs crazy trying to prepare for this.

by AlanC on Jul 21, 2009 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let’s be honest here, that’s not a particularly confidence-inspriring group. Hopefully they’ll manage to surprise us. (gulp).

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Jul 21, 2009 12:36 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree completely. This looks to be a well below average group… but sadly, with improved LBs & Safetys behind them it could very well be better than what we had last year….

by cjfarls on Jul 21, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

With you here

I like the “potential” of this group, but it is pretty friggin uninspiring. I really do hope to see some real surprises from our defensive line.

All I want from our front 7 is an “average” performance this year vs the stinking group that played D last year. Just average…no one in the above group needs to be a Merriman, LT, etc etc…just average please.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jul 21, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

word.

"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes

by broncosmontana on Jul 21, 2009 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

The group might seem uninspiring, but consider that D-linemen in a 3-4 scheme are asked to take pretty selfless roles. Individuals need not apply, because the D-line will have to a lot of things that won’t show up on the stat sheet. They’re suppossed to occupy space and gaps to open up plays for the linebacking corps. None of them need to be stars, they just need to be serviceable at their job and do what is asked of them. Personally, I think the surprise from the D this year will be how much freer our linebackers will be, flying all over the field making plays, because of the workmanlike, underappreciated efforts of the D-line.

by bowma101 on Jul 21, 2009 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get that

I’m saying regardless of 3-4 or 4-3 our front 7 last year blew chunks and all I care about is having an average performance (which is exponentially better than last year). I totally get that the front 3 (or 4 depending on the situation) won’t put up big numbers. I’m totally cool with that.

Even given the job they have to do this group of players doesn’t necessarily make me feel like we’ve got our D figured out and ready to roll. I don’t know that they can execute and be effective in “any” role. I’m eager to see how they perform in training camp and pre-season.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jul 21, 2009 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to write what bowma did

If you evaluate these guys to “take up space,” then it is reasonable to conclude that they will be able to prevent the O linemen to get to the second level, while relying on our Speed at the LB position to make plays. If the LB corps can tackle effectively, we will have success.
 I feel lots better now, Thanks Nyc

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."

by KaptainKirk on Jul 21, 2009 6:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I worry about the same thing

Even given the altered job requirements guys who are relatively untalented in a 4-3 will be relatively untalented in a 3-4. At least that’s one way of looking at it. Another is that in our new base defense we have only three uninspiring linemen rather than four. Another point is that Thomas, while not dominant last year, was at least serviceable as only a 2nd year player, will be better this year, and is arguably a better fit for a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DT. We had one really good starting LB last year (DJ) and two mediocre ones (Webster and Winborn). Now we have DJ and Davis for the inside positions, and a very good chance of finding at least one and maybe two effective OLB’s. Last year we had one outstanding player in the front seven, DJ (and WW while he was injured). It looks like this year we might have several, so along with the massive upgrade in the secondary the defense looks much improved. I’m beginning to realize that the line wasn’t quite the disaster everyone thought it was last year. They just didn’t get much help from the back seven on run support. Some think Bly has been made a scapegoat for the weakness of the pass defense, but it was his poor run defense that made him expendable. I think our line will be better than we expect because it wasn’t as bad as we thought.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jul 22, 2009 4:24 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting take

I want to say I always enjoy your insightful posts spock.

I see where you are coming from but from where I sit it is really hard to think the line last year was anything other than pathetic overall. Thomas may make steps (I think he will too) and Doom is going to be a force if used properly (which I have faith that Nolan will). But as far as D-line goes I’m not super excited yet. I hope to be once training camp gets going, but not yet.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jul 22, 2009 8:08 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

About Doom

I completely agree, and I think he typifies really what was wrong with the D-line last year. I love Doom, but he should never have been used the way he was—a pass rusher expected to also stop the run, something he just doesn’t have th size for. Last year the line felt like a lot of square pegs, players who might be athletic and talented being asked to fill roles they’re not fit for. Like you, I can’t say I’m “excited” per se about the specific players (excepting Ayers) but I am excited to see what an actual scheme looks like; you know, as oppossed to the Slowik chaos we were subject to last year.

by bowma101 on Jul 22, 2009 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Totally with you. I do think the coaching change will make a solid difference. Our defense may actually be respectable this year just due to that switch. Man Slowik sucked. :)

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jul 22, 2009 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Thomas will probably play DE and adding his name does make me fell a little better. Our NT position looks equally troublesome in my mind (I’m not sold on Fields). I guess if DL is your weakest area then at least switching to a 3-4 ensures that there will typically only be three of them on the field. ;-)

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Jul 21, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could see our starters being...

Fields at NT, Thoams and Powell at DE’s.
Why are not Powell and Thoams listed in this group…..are they really being considered at NT only? Also remember that Fields has played DE as well in a 3-4 front.

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Jul 21, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baker is athletic enough

…to play DE as well.

I’m not terribly worried about the line. Both the rotations will be serviceable, and I think Thomas and Fields will both have their breakout seasons this year.

Well, here’s hoping, anyway…

by JeffG on Jul 21, 2009 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boydy

When we developed the categories for this series, we took a lot into account. The movement of Thomas and Powell to the DT/NT group has various reasons. Again – we will use the players in that group as DTs on some occasions, just as you can see PITT playing a 5-2, 4-3 and 3-4/zone blitz, (which is their dominant approach) on different plays during the SB, just as an example.

We also had to go with the ideas suggested by the breakdown on the denverbroncos.com site and by the statements in the media that both Thomas and Powell are trying out for the NT position, as are Fields, Parker and Baker.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 21, 2009 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet...

Thanks Doc…know it must have been hard to categorize the players, particularly when many can play both.
I was not having a go at you guys, merely posing the question I guess….as the NT group to me anyway, probably has the guys that I feel/hope start for us.
I am really looking forward to the article on DT/NT.
This was great too….I actually like McBean, and think Davis and E-Ped have mad upside in the future. We could surprise!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Jul 21, 2009 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baker

is still my darkhorse. ^^ I’m rootin’ for the guy.

"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes

by broncosmontana on Jul 22, 2009 12:09 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least

(I believe) from what we’ve been reading and hearing, the D will be more aggressive and will at minimum get more sacks and turnovers. It will be up to these “uninspiring” guys to occupy the O-line while our vastly improved LB’s and secondary does the rest.

It certainly has potential. C’mon July 30th!!!

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
Just click your heels together three times and say, "There's no player like Hillis... there's no player like Hillis."

by BroncTastic on Jul 21, 2009 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be hard not to, cj ;-)

They may benefit from severely depressed standards. If they are merely lower average, they will have greatly improved.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 21, 2009 1:07 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Hi Mr. Bear

Did you mean “below average” ?

by St. James Bronc on Jul 22, 2009 10:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hi, STJ!

Well, I meant ‘On the low end of Average’, but frankly, anything but dreadful would be nice!

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 23, 2009 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Elephant Masochist

I think I’m both ;)

Great article, once again.

by studbucket on Jul 21, 2009 1:21 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks NYC

Vonnie Holliday would add experience to this group, but, I just don’t think it will happen. If Ayers is used primarily at OLB, that would give room for one more of these youngsters to make the roster. I really like the untapped potential in Davis and Pedescleaux. They made not contribute early, but appear to be coachable and could turn into solid players. I also thought I’d seen Peterson and McBean in the DT mix as well.

by bchiper on Jul 21, 2009 2:11 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

change is good, don’t know who the front 3 will be but i do know we have a leader #20 a great D. coach. can not wait to see this D on the field.

by wildcat37 on Jul 21, 2009 4:32 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

would be nice to add a vet to front 3. wish list BIG & NASTY.

by wildcat37 on Jul 21, 2009 4:35 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Post, as always

It’s obvious that much effort went into this piece, as the new line is certainly very difficult to predict at this point. Know that while there are some highly educated (football wise) members on this site, but there are also plenty of us whose football IQ dips at least slightly when getting into such specifics in foreign territory. The d-line and the specific roles of our hybrids are the biggest question marks going into training camp, so it’s nice to see some intelligent predictions and breakdowns. Thank you.

I hope to hear more on this once the pads are on! Rec’d

by elvisalex on Jul 21, 2009 5:45 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh, well...

After reading the other position breakdowns the last couple of weeks, I was surprised to find myself getting excited about the upcoming season. This post just brought me back to earth. Denver is woeful up front. I don’t see where the pass rush will come from. Not a lot of experience or depth here. Bring back Simeon Rice!

by xandervan on Jul 21, 2009 6:10 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I think you missed the major point

The DL in a 34 are not going to get sacks (at least, not very many). Their job is to keep the OL off the linebackers, freeing the LBs to tackle, disrupt, sack, etc. Simeon Rice’s talents as a pass rusher would not have translated well at ALL to a 34 DE…if he had any role in such a D, it would have been as OLB, as THAT is where the pass rush will come from.

Ayers may be the exception, filling rolls as both a DE and an OLB, but most of the guys mentioned here have one role: effectively absorb as many blocks as possible. With that in mind, they’re not such a bad group. Unproven, but possessing the right skill sets to do the job.

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on Jul 21, 2009 7:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah Stu...great post as always!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Jul 21, 2009 8:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

kinda kidding, but still...

The Simeon Rice comment was in jest. I certainly don’t want him back. But my point still stands even in the new scheme. What confidence do you have that the current crop of LBs can do all the things you say they’re supposed to do when freed up? Crowder and Moss are being moved to in the hopes of salvaging their disappointing first 2 years. Even if the DL lives up to its potential, where will the pass rush come from??

by xandervan on Jul 21, 2009 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

hope rest on the darrel reid the ayer the elvis the jarven moss guy. Some body need to come from out side and smash you quart back into delusional. make snot run from nose and change game. long time ago i see film that snot run from nose of guy quarter back that get smashed. maybe the woodyard guy. he shoot you gap and show the flash of great. intensity competetor.he gain wieght in off season guy. If no pessure you quart back that gon be real foul again guy. I have enough of no sack you enemy quart back grandfather go leave to take walk at end of some game he so fed up that is messed up guy.

I is fan of the Denver

by Horvil Tiki on Jul 21, 2009 9:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair question

I see hope (or potential, at least) in several areas:

1. Dumervil was an effective pass rusher from the DE position; I doubt he’s lost all of that quickness.

2. Coming out of college, several scouting reports suggested that Moss would be a better fit as a 34 OLB. He had played in space at Florida on occasion.

3. Ayers isn’t the pass rushing specialist that excites the crowd, but he really came on his senior season. If he lives up to the billing, he’ll generally create chaos on the field.

4. Putting DJ Williams as the RILB with Davis filling the Ted role as LILB; now we we’re looking at a legit scheme that will free DJ to use his full potential (including on the blitz). That can’t hurt!

5. Overall, a coherent defense scheme and philosophy (big difference between adapting week-to-week for a reason, and just throwing schemes at the wall in the hope that one sticks). Using the talent that IS present to its best effect. That has to mean something!

Granted, there are still some IFs there. But Denver doesn’t need Dumervil AND Moss AND Ayers AND (insert other LB here) to become Pro Bowlers. All they need is competency out of one or two guys…that should be enough to let an elite secondary do it’s job.

And for the record, I’m not worried at all about the run. Denver won’t be elite this year, but they’ll do a decent job in that category.

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on Jul 21, 2009 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good points

Thanks, Stu. I hope you’re right that. But as to:

“we’re looking at a legit scheme that will free DJ to use his full potential”

I feel like I heard this in ‘07 and again in ’08. What exactly is DJ’s full potential?? I’m starting to think he’s the Lamar Odom of the NFL. Will we ever see the total package? Let’s hope this group comes together quickly.

by xandervan on Jul 22, 2009 12:03 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not like Lamar Odom

He’s been outstanding all along. It’s a matter of finding a scheme where his excellent play does the team most good. He made a ton of tackles when he was at Mike before, and now he has a partner to help fend off blockers. His full potential will be to help stuff the inside running game and effectively blitz the QB.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jul 22, 2009 4:39 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

Thinking back to 2007, that was supposed to be “The Year” for DJ. Run Contain would filter everything to DJ, letting him clean up and dominate. As far as tackles went, he did his job. But everything went wrong that year (and really set up the next year). Run Contain required a certain type of line (huge DTs to take on blockers, an elite pass rusher at RDE), and also required the rest of the team to go slightly against instict to filter runs back into the middle where the Mike would make the stops (hence, Run Contain). Problems immediately arose: solid DTs that didn’t “fit” the system were discarded or traded, Jarvis Moss was supposed to be an elite pass rusher from day ONE (a HUGE weight for a first year DE), and nobody really knew much (if anything) about the system.

Then it gets really bad. After struggling early on, rather than sticking with the defense, going through the growing pains, and letting it all come together, the entier Run Contain system was abandoned. Not just shelved…abandoned, discarded, never to be seen again. All the moves on defense that were defended with “well, Bates needs certain guys for his system” were suddenly wasted. In a year like that, I’m not surpised that DJ didn’t leap off the screen. 2007, wasted.

2008 rolled in with Slowik at the defensive helm. Of course, the D had two big strikes against it: Slowik had never shown he was a grade A defensive coordinator, and the Run Contain experiment had effectively stripped some talent and a year of coaching from the team. I think it showed: when defensive players are publicly stating that they don’t know what the scheme is, they don’t know what their roles are, the problems start at the top. Couple the general confusion with a LB core that includes two athletic but undisciplined backs, and again, it’s hard to expect DJ to dominate.

Looking back at what I just wrote, I may be justifying somewhat. I may be wrong in my assessments, but I tend to think that DJ has been placed in positions where he can’t maximize his potential. I doubt any good defense takes an elite athlete and puts them in positions where they are LEAST comfortable. Now, all indications are that the line will be improved (they won’t get stats, but they need to do their job and disrupt the line. I think they can do that), the OLBs should be decent (unknown here, but I believe that, at the very least, they’ll be disciplined), and Davis will be used in a way that maximizes HIS potential: stuffing runs inside and blocking the blockers for DJ as the Ted back. Now we’re talking about a situation in which DJ does not have to compensate for the mistakes of others, he’s not used in a Run Contain that isn’t really a Run Contain…he will be used to attack.

And I’m rambling. Thanks for the discussion, however!

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on Jul 22, 2009 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

We saw a glimpse of DJ's full potential as a rookie

When he was that close to winning DORY. They then began moving him all over the field- Will, Sam, Mike, whatever, which actually speaks to how highly regarded his skills are. DJ never complained, he just tried to do the best job he could. That to me says Ultimate Professional.

If DJ had just been left at Will, I think we would’ve seen multiple All-Pro and Pro Bowls by now. I’m really excited to see him play in this new role.

by AllBroncsallday on Jul 22, 2009 5:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mr Basketball

I’d like to know how big Pedescleaux was when he was Mr. Basketball. At 315lb, there are probably only a couple guys heavier than him in the NBA. At 6-4, he’d have to have the skills of a slashing F/G. I would not want to be in the lane when he takes it to the hoop.

by BuckarooBanzai on Jul 21, 2009 11:51 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

If everyone's forecast that the Denver Broncos will be among the worst teams in the league is correct, Moreno will have a hard time getting second-half carries in what is a crowded backfield

From the oh so famous john clayton. Wait!? EVERYONE is saying we will be amond the worst teams in the league!!?? I guess i didnt get the memo. I could sware that i have heard hundreds of fans on this site saying we will have a good season.

by Calibroncoboy on Jul 22, 2009 2:13 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Did not you read my post from a month ago....WE SUCK!!!! Our name has been changed to the Suckville Broncos.

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Jul 22, 2009 7:14 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

ROFL

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."

by KaptainKirk on Jul 22, 2009 7:50 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

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