Michael Vick - The Broncos could fit

by Steve O' on Jul 21, 2009 8:00 PM MDT Comment 48 comments

I know, I know, I know...but hear me out.

Josh McDaniels has some good things going for him. One, he isn't afraid to make a tough decision. The Cutler situation came down to some to very hard decisions and when it was all said and done McD' didn't blink. Two, and more importantly he is showing us what appears to be a dedication to the run.

The Broncos seem to be changing from a team that was heavy on the pass to a team that will be heavier on the run. A few things, using the 12th selection on Knowshon Moreno, Hillis told to work on ellusiveness drills, trading up in the 2nd round for Richard Quinn and bringing in a whole slew of FA running backs shows that the Broncos are going to really rely on the only real weapon in their quiver....the ZB running game.

Here is where Mike Vick comes in. He is single handedly the best rushing QB the game has ever seen....sorry Randall Cunningham you were awesome but Vick is on another level.

Josh McDaniels, last season with the Pats, saw first hand against the Dolphins what the Wildcat can do. In a copy cat league you can always expect to see other teams do things that are successful.

While it's hard to imagine a more polorizing figure come into the whirlwind that is the Broncos 2009 offseason, the images of Knowshon, Hillis and Vick running crazy and different formations is intriguing.

In my personal opinion, I am not a judge nor jury. It isn't my place to say whether or not Vick should have the right to play in the NFL again or if a team should sign him. If Roger Goodell decides that Vick is allowed to play then he can play. I believe in second chances.

When it's all said and done, the decisions that are being made are the ones that can improve our football team and I believe that Michael Vick could help the Denver Broncos and I believe the Denver Broncos could help Michael Vick. I am interested to see what you think.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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he'll have to take a new number...

Number 7’s retired baby.

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 21, 2009 8:15 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

personally, no

I don’t think Vick is a long term solution. I don’t think he will be able to play at an NFL level for at least half a season more. He won’t be as quick. Rushing is what we have backs for, and I think vick’s style won’t mesh with the McDaniels system. Wildcat will be a memory within the next few years as the suprise element wears off and D’s are ready for it.

Plus, second chances aside, I do not want to see him in a Broncos uniform.

Orton is a better choice for now and for the long term development of the team.

"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton

by odarol on Jul 21, 2009 8:19 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks odarol

you point some good things to consider

Moreno in 2009! - Check
Taylor Mays in 2010!

by Steve O' on Jul 21, 2009 8:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please No

I forgive Mike for what he’s done. He has paid his debt, according to the satisfaction of the law, but because of his bad decisions, I don’t want him making decisions at QB for my team. He has a good arm, and he is speedy fast, but he thinks run first too often. He would be a better fit in Miami. Although the ‘Wildcat’ offense is just a fad. It only works as a trick play. The NFL defenses won’t be fooled by this offense when it is run full time. This has similar consequences to running the ‘Wishbone’ in the NFL.
The media is spouting that there are about 8 teams interested in taking a look at him, but IMO, he should move to WR.

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."

by KaptainKirk on Jul 21, 2009 8:28 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Kaptain

But instead of thinking true ‘Wildcat’ think of a singleback Shotgun with Moreno and Vick with Hillis moving all around. There could be some interesting formations.

Miami has their Wildcat QB in Pat White, so I don’t see them being interested

Moreno in 2009! - Check
Taylor Mays in 2010!

by Steve O' on Jul 21, 2009 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Weren't teams already stopping the Wildcat by the end of the year?

I also wonder how well he could run a spread offense. Not to mention coming back from being off the field for so long.

As far as the Dog Fighting goes, I think he has paid his debt, and does deserve the opportunity to try out for some teams, but the odds are against him.

Can he catch, maybe he could play WR?

"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway

by jibbons on Jul 21, 2009 8:37 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes, the traditional 'Wildcat' will probably run its course if it hasn't already

As far as a WR…I don’t really know about that. He could be used like a flanker I guess.

Moreno in 2009! - Check
Taylor Mays in 2010!

by Steve O' on Jul 21, 2009 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Theoretically you could run an

option spread like Fla & WVA do. The Wildcat ran its course because no one is really worried about Brown throwing. However, with a Vick or White running it they would have to respect the pass and run.

However, I don’t think it’s worth the practice time to get the play down well so there isn’t, in my mind, enough upside to warrant a spot for a guy who is very unproven now. Sure we know what Vick used to be capable of. But who knows what he still can do.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jul 21, 2009 11:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

agree on the point about practice time

at the NFL level, I don’t think you can minor in a scheme. You have to MAJOR in it, or not at all….

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 22, 2009 4:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure why...

But for some reason I’ve never been a fan of Vick’s game. Too one dimensional. I think he would limit a McDaniels coached offense.

Does that make me a Kool Aid Drinker? I hope so!

13-3 Baby! Can’t wait for Training Camp!

The QB position is set.

by broncofaninIL on Jul 21, 2009 8:42 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be a fan of Vick's game in Shanny style offense...

or at least the one Denver ran last year. Vick isn’t the best verticle passer, here is where I am intrigued.

If for some reason Marshall doesn’t come back I can see Denver playing “small ball”, no turnovers, keep the offense out there and grinding it out. If the pass isn’t there for Vick, no worries, run it. Pitch to Moreno, Pitch to Hillis, Toss to Moreno, Vick keeper…yada yada all the way down field.

It could work…maybe

Moreno in 2009! - Check
Taylor Mays in 2010!

by Steve O' on Jul 21, 2009 8:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

How would you see the offense differently if Marshall plays?

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 21, 2009 9:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think w/ Marshall Denver will stretch the field more

without doing the research, I would assume that the addition to Moss is when the Pats started lighting it up downfield. I think you have to play to the players strength and Marshall is a big target…i could be wrong though

Moreno in 2009! - Check
Taylor Mays in 2010!

by Steve O' on Jul 21, 2009 9:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

One other point

Eddie Royal runs a 4.39 40, while Brandon runs about a 4.51 – 4.54. Eddie also runs far better routes than Marshall and has better double moves. Royal is a better deep threat

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 22, 2009 12:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, we have to agree to disagree...you like the speed I like the height and athletic ability to go up and get it

in the end it, as long as it’s getting done

Moreno in 2009! - Check
Taylor Mays in 2010!

by Steve O' on Jul 22, 2009 7:35 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don't understand the spread

in the vertical passing game you need a deep threat to stretch the defense vertically;
in the WCO you need the quick slant receivers to stretch the field horizontally;
these offenses are about creating personnel mis-matches.
the stretch is about creating scheme mis-matches.
1 defender has to cover 2 receivers or 2 defenders have to cover 3 receivers.
don’t think for a moment that the Broncos ran a true spread offense last year;
they ran more of a WCO/Run-n-shoot out of the shotgun. it might look similar but they are not the same.
in the spread you don’t play long ball; you don’t play small ball;
you play for the scheme mis-match.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jul 21, 2009 11:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

smartball

I love looking at pats film and seeing the open guy before the snap even fires off. Those LBs and safeties start to cheat, you burn them. If they stay home, wear them down. Great athletes and great playcalling are the wildcard,a nd their is no shortage of either in the NFL, but it is sure a good way to start out…

There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 22, 2009 4:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Marshall stays...

And I don’t know if I could handle any more intirgue this off season much less the MSM hanging around all of camp. (Probably a little selfish)

I do believe it would be chemistry issue, not because he’s Michael Vick, but another dramatic change at QB.

Definitely something I wouldn’t have thought of before reading your post.

Good post…it made me think

The QB position is set.

by broncofaninIL on Jul 21, 2009 8:56 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Vick will return to the game only to find that he left his speed in a federal prison...

due to his absence from the game and the fact he is older, I doubt we’ll ever see the Mike Vick that we were used to watching. I can’t help but be reminded of Mike Tyson when he “got out”, and that left hook just didn’t hurt people like it once did. If Vick returns to the NFL in the next couple of years, I personally won’t be expecting the Vick of old, due to “rust” and age taking its toll.

Taylor Mays in '10

by donbok1 on Jul 21, 2009 9:03 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

He's only 29..

I don’t think he’s “older” by any means. He’s still got some years left in the tank. I think he just needs one team to give him a shot. Even if he has to work from the bottom up, give him a chance. I think a decent fit for him would be possibly Carolina or something like that…Hey, if he hangs on for a couple more years, Chicago may be shopping for a new QB in 2011!

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 21, 2009 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, but no thanks

I have nothing against Vick playing in the league. He paid his debt to society.

But I think he is not a fit for us. I saw it recently here that a good QB is pass, pass, pass, then run. Vick is maybe pass, but always look for run. This is not too predictable and nothing like fluidity of amoeba we expect from McD. We have talented receiver corps, for crying out loud – don’t sell them short by going to Vick, let ’em catch the ball!

by si_ice on Jul 21, 2009 9:40 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

good point about the receivers, they are good!

Moreno in 2009! - Check
Taylor Mays in 2010!

by Steve O' on Jul 21, 2009 9:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Run first then pass???

The 2007 season would be no less than perfect during the regular season and playoffs winning 18 straight games to get to Super Bowl XLII. Brady would be the league MVP passing for 50 TD’s an NFL record and 4,806 passing ydswas good for 3rd all time by a quarterback. They didn’t repeat as winners as the Giants defense roseto the occasion on that day. Josh’s offense would send 5 players to the Pro Bowl in 2007, Brady, Moss, who set a league record (23) TD’s, and three offensive linemen (center Dan Koppen, tackle Matt Light and guard Logan Mankins). New England’s 589 points (36.8 ppg.) and 75 touchdowns were the most in league history for a season while its 6,580 yards (411.3 ypg.) ranked seventh in league annals for a single campaign.

I don’t think so Steve, Kyle Orton IMO will surprise alot of people this year under McDaniels’ tutelage.

by bfree2bronc on Jul 21, 2009 9:48 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess Marshall, Royal, Stokley, Gaffney, McKinley and Lloyd are ornaments to look at?

Every team has a running game as well as a passing game, that’s what creates balance in the offensive attack, and I believe both will be very successful. Michael Vick is a talent all in his own, and probably will be again in the NFL. There will be several teams trying to get him and I wouldn’t blame them, he brings another element to the game. I’m not sure he would fit McDaniels’ system and scheme.

by bfree2bronc on Jul 21, 2009 10:03 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

but this is the best case for him I have read so for.

I still don’t agree but you have definitely peaked my interest more than it was before.

"Hey Raiders fans!!! If you leave now you can beat traffic!"
-Rod Smith

by GarretBarnes on Jul 21, 2009 10:21 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Garrett...

what if he was just a role type player…Orton is the starter, conventional style McD’ offense but if a change of pace or style is wanted…call in Vick run something unconventional and keep them always quessing.

Just an idea, not really a master design!

Moreno in 2009! - Check
Taylor Mays in 2010!

by Steve O' on Jul 21, 2009 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

I feel as if if we start using the wildcat, suddenly it is useless because everyone will have it. It will just be a traditional setup.

I’m all for thinking outside of the box but maybe we are thinking a bit too much. Still, nice article!

"Hey Raiders fans!!! If you leave now you can beat traffic!"
-Rod Smith

by GarretBarnes on Jul 22, 2009 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not for the Broncos

But I would be interested to see what kind of role he wants and would accept with teams in the league. I think you’re right in the assumption that he will be considered by teams for Wildcat purposes, but has he humbled himself enough to accept that role? Or does he feel he’s still starter material?

by bowma101 on Jul 21, 2009 11:19 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey Steve O

You know in the beginning of your post, when you said “I know I know I know” Well you’re not a psychic, those idea-damning thoughts you were hearing weren’t ours. That was your conscience, trying to save you from wasting your breath.

Mike Vick’s playing style is a polar opposite of the system McDaniels has been successfully running in New England. All of your supporting criteria is why Vick would NOT fit here in Denver. We already picked up all the peices we need for a run game. And as other commenters mentioned, the wildcat didn’t/wont make it very far in the league. I believe people will use it on occasion, but its not something to build an offense off of. And Josh McDaniels may be bold and young and willing to do what other’s wont (in some intances) but he’s also SMART. Im sure he knows he’s stretched this off season about as far as he can stretch it (drama-wise).

Do you think he intended to not be using a talented QB like Cutler when he proposed his System to Pat Bowlen in his first interview?? Heck no. He was planning on it. I bet you he was planning on having Jay there for a year or two at least while he scoured the draft’s for his perfect QB, and then spent a year or two developing him. Cutler wasn’t meant to be ran out of town, but as just about everyone can see after the deal… it seems like that’s exactely what he wanted. McD was just making the best out of what he could from the situation. He’s been doing that from day one. Granted he’s learning a couple of the bigger HC responsibilities the hard way… but he’s not here to trash the Mile High City, or his own reputation. He wants whats best for everyone wearing Orange and Blue.

And let me ASSURE you. Vick is not what’s best for Denver, or even close to best. Not now, or not ever. And don’t take me as a Vick hater either. He was great to watch. I hope he lands with a successful franchise. If he were going to land ANYWHERE of all places, especially in the AFC West, it would be Oakland, and that’s a FACT.

It's Orange Crush time. And no I am NOT talking about the soft-drink.
Which I beg the question: "Can liquid really be... soft?"

3 TE Set = 3 losses or less.

Do it MickeyD... 13-3!!

by USMCWall on Jul 21, 2009 11:46 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Vick is darn near the polar opposite of what McD looks for in a QB. Never going to happen.

Although it would be very interesting to see him on the roster as our backup QB in case something happens to Orton or even Simms. I said interesting, not necessarily good. :)

As someone stated above, Carolina seems like a decent fit. I would also enjoy seeing him go to a place like Detroit, where he could be a backup plan to Stafford’s inevitable bumpy road.

And for the record, while I am disgusted by what he did to those dogs, I feel like he was wrongfully made a whipping-boy/poster boy because of his celebrity. I feel certain that a normal citizen accused of the same crimes would be put through the system and end up with a lesser punishment. I don’t like to see either favors or the opposite of it thrown at someone because of their celebrity.

by aLuffabo on Jul 22, 2009 1:40 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Nope

I am all for giving a guy a second chance and he did serve his time. However, I don’t want him on the Broncos. I don’t like QBs who run as often as he does. Don’t get me wrong he has speed, it’s just that I don’t want a QB to lead the team in rushing as well.

GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Jul 22, 2009 9:45 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Jay Cutler circa 2008?

I think he led the team in rushing last year.

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 22, 2009 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jay Cutler did not lead the team in rushing last year.

In fact, he was 5th on the team in total rushing yards (and 8th in average yards per carry). Cutler rushed for exactly 200 yards (on 57 attempts, averaging 3.5 yards/carry, 5 fumbles with 2 of them lost, and 2 TD’s). Hillis rushed for 343 yards (5.0 y/c, 5 TD’s, 0 fumbles), Pittman 320 (4.2 y/c, 4 TD’s, 0 fumbles), Young 303 (5.0 y/c, 1 TD, 1 fumble) and T. Bell 249 (5.7 y/c, 2 TD’s, 0 fumbles). And obviously those low totals for the RB’s were due to injury and consequently less games played. Which means that even had Cutler surpassed any of them with his rushing total, it wouldn’t have been because Cutler was some mad dasher looking to run down the field. Cutler can scramble when necessary, but he’s not Vick when it comes to racking up rushing yards (which is a good thing, but just pointing out that Cutler is not that style of QB….not even close). Six other QB’s were ahead of Cutler in rushing yards last year (Thigpen 386, Garrard 322, Fitzpatrick 304, Cassel 270, Campbell 258, and Rodgers 207).

And just for the sake of comparison, here are Vick’s totals:

Games Rush
Played Yards Avg. TD
8 289 9.3 1
15 777 6.9 8
5 255 6.4 1
15 902 7.5 3
15 597 5.9 6
15 1039 8.4 2

"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)

by RockyMtnHigh on Jul 22, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

relax I was kidding.

sheeeesh! haha

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 22, 2009 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Must've been lost in translation then...

as I wasn’t the only one who made that mistake.

And I’m perfectly relaxed, thanks.

"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)

by RockyMtnHigh on Jul 22, 2009 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

He only gained 200 yards rushing on 57 attempts.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 22, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You beat me to it, RMH

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 22, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

By mere seconds, it appears…. :-)

"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)

by RockyMtnHigh on Jul 22, 2009 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I posted this awhile ago (last season)

And though I don’t think he has much upside as a QB other than a gadget guy who can make some plays at the Wildcat, I would be for looking at him as a DB and or a WR/KR, now would he be willing to do those things, I doubt it, so it may be a moot point. But I don’t see much use in signing him to play QB because he is not a very diciplined guy that you need and he would be too big a distraction at QB.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
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by Broncoman on Jul 22, 2009 10:45 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs

I was going to say the same thing

I wouldn’t mind having Vick on our team returning kicks / backup WR, but no way as a QB. Sign him to return kickoffs and see how he does. If he makes the team in that role, you could use some trickery with him in some select instances on offense as well (Wild Cat, QB option, line him as a WR and do a lateral/throw, even as a decoy).

But as you correctly point out, I don’t think Vick is going to go for that unless he has no options as a QB in the NFL.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Jul 22, 2009 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn’t mind having Vick on our team returning kicks / backup WR,

Sure, but is he worth the money and/or roster spot for that?

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."

by KaptainKirk on Jul 22, 2009 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, stats got skewed....

Games Rush
Played Yards Avg. TD
8 289 9.3 1
15 777 6.9 8
5 255 6.4 1
15 902 7.5 3
15 597 5.9 6
15 1039 8.4 2

"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)

by RockyMtnHigh on Jul 22, 2009 1:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Dang it....

They did it again……AND I replied in the wrong spot. LOL I give up. But you get the picture. Vick and Cutler are not the same type of QB’s at all.

"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)

by RockyMtnHigh on Jul 22, 2009 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I had the same problem earlier RMH

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."

by KaptainKirk on Jul 22, 2009 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, glad it's not just me....

although I still replied to the wrong place, so that part was all me. Oh well. :-)

"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)

by RockyMtnHigh on Jul 22, 2009 5:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the best option for Vick himself is to go to the UFL.Knock off the rust, at least get used to playing football again, and show the NFL execs he’s still got it.

by broncofaninpa on Jul 22, 2009 5:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs