The Practice Squad
by KaptainKirk on Jul 21, 2009 10:16 PM MDT
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PrintTo the casual fan, the Practice Squad is an enigma. It could be considered the equivalent of a Baseball teams farm club, but in a smaller format. These units consist of less athletically developed or less skilled players, and for young players, the practice squad keeps alive their hope of making an NFL roster. It also lets a team keep a player that needs a little more development on the roster, but not count on the active list on game day. This leaves teams a bit of room to maneuver. With only days to go before Training Camp starts, let's take a look at what the Practice Squad is all about.
The Practice Squad consists of up to 8 players that a team may keep, in addition to the regular 53 man Active roster. It is usually made up of rookies who were cut in training camps and borderline pro-caliber players. Both rookies and young veterans are eligible for the practice squad. A player cannot be on the practice squad for more than 3 seasons, or if he has accrued a year of NFL experience. One year is defined as; 6 or more games on a club's 53-man active roster or on the official IR list.
Practice squads give young players a chance to improve their skill level by practicing against the regular roster players during the regular season.They gain valuable experience that may allow them to ultimately make a regular roster later that year or in subsequent years. As regular roster players become injured during the long NFL season, many clubs call upon their practice squad players to come in and fill the void created by the injured players.
Practice squad players get to practice along with the rest of the team during the week, but they do not 'suit up' for actual games. They are paid considerably less than active squad players: The minimum salary from 2008 to 2010 is $5,200 per week for 17 weeks, or $88,400 per season. This includes the playoffs.That isn't much. By comparison, the minimum rookie salary is $285,000.
A player signed to a practice squad contract with one NFL club is completely free to sign a contract and play on the 53-man active-inactive list of any NFL club, not just his practice squad club. So the player remains a FA for purposes of signing an NFL contract. However, if one team 'poaches' a player from another teams Practice Squad, that team must place that player immediately on their 53 man roster.
Also, the NFL had a program through which foreign players could be assigned to teams' practice squads, called the International Practice Squad Program. The initiative, which entered its 5th year in 2008, featured 16 players joining the practice squads of NFL teams.
MANUEL PADILLA was one of those international practice squad players. You might remember him being assigned to the Broncos in 2008. Under the terms of the NFL’s International Practice Squad Program, Padilla spent the entire 2008 season with the Broncos. He was eligible to compete in the club’s preseason contests but could not play in a regular-season game. I believe this was a failed experiment and seemed like more of a 'Global' public image gimmick than anything else for the League. I say this because the NFL Europe is now defunct and that is where these players came from.
Tuesday, Sep 1, 2009, is a key date on the calendars of some 500 players around the league that are trying to make an NFL roster. This is the day that clubs must reduce their rosters from 80 to 75 players. 4 days later, on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009, teams must reduce their roster yet again to the regular roster limit of 53 players. While many players will face disappointment when they learn they've been cut, a small group of 256 will be allowed to fill the practice squads of their respective teams, and hopefully improve their skills to NFL caliber.
Here are the Rules regarding Practice Squad players. From the Collective Bargaining Agreement, Under Article XXXIV:
PRACTICE SQUADS
Section 2. Signing With Other Clubs:
(a) Any player under contract to a Club as a practice squad player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club at any time during the League Year, to serve as a player on any Club’s Active or Inactive List, and any Club is completely free to negotiate and sign such a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period, except that such player shall not be permitted to sign a Player Contract with another Club to serve as a practice squad player while under contract as a practice squad player.
(b) Notwithstanding Subsection (a) above, a practice squad player may not sign an NFL Player Contract with his Club’s next opponent later than 4:00 p.m., New York time, on the sixth day preceding the game (except in bye weeks, when the prohibition commences on the tenth day preceding the game).
Section 3. Salary: Minimum salary for a practice squad player shall be $4,700 per week for the 2006-07 League Years, $5,200 per week for the 2008-10 League Years and the 2011 League Year if it is an Uncapped Year, and $5,700 per week for the 2011 League Year if it is a Capped Year and the 2012 League Year, including postseason weeks in which his Club is in the playoffs.
Section 4. Eligibility:
(a) The practice squad shall consist of the following players, provided that they have not served more than two previous seasons on a Practice Squad: (i) players who do not have an Accrued Season of NFL experience; and (ii) free agent players who were on the Active List for fewer than nine regular season games during their only Accrued Season(s). An otherwise eligible player may be a practice squad player for a third season only if the Club by which he is employed that season has at least 53 players on its Active/Inactive List during the entire period of his employment.
(b) A player shall be deemed to have served on a Practice Squad in a season if he has passed the club’s physical and been a member of the club’s Practice Squad for at least three regular season or postseason games during his first two Practice Squad seasons, and for at least one regular season or postseason game during his third Practice Squad season. (A bye week counts as a game provided that the player is not terminated until after the regular season or postseason weekend in question.)
Section 5. Active List: If a player on the Practice Squad of one club (Club A) signs an NFL Player Contract with another club (Club B), (1) the player shall receive three weeks salary of his NFL Player Contract at the 53- player Active/Inactive List minimum even if he is terminated by Club B prior to earning that amount, and (2) Club B is required to count the player on its 53-player Active/Inactive List for three games (a bye week counts as a game) even if he is terminated or assigned via waivers to another club or is signed as a free agent to another club’s 53-player roster or another club’s Practice Squad prior to that time. If the player is terminated from Club B’s 53-player roster and signed to Club B’s Practice Squad, he shall continue to count on the club’s 53-player Active/Inactive List but shall not count against the eight-player Practice Squad limit until the three-game requirement has been fulfilled. If a player is terminated prior to the completion of the three-game period and is signed to Club B’s Practice Squad or is signed or assigned to another club’s 53-player roster or Practice Squad, any salary (as that term is defined in Article XXIV, Section 1(c)) that he receives from any NFL club applicable to the three-game period shall be an offset against the three weeks salary that he is entitled to receive from Club B.
All of the Broncos 2009 draft picks will be eligible for this years Practice Squad, however, the first 5 picks Moreno, Ayers, Smith, McBath, and Quinn shouldn't be considered as "development" players since they are expected to see enough playing time to render them ineligible by seasons end. Not only that, but the team should find a spot just so they don't get poached by a rival team.
The other players that will be eligible by the end of camp include, FS David Bruton OG Seth Olsen, WR Kenny McKinley, QB Tom Brandstater, C Blake Schlueter, DT Matthias Askew, G Mitch Erickson, G Pat Murray, T Clint Oldenburg, T Stanley Bryant, WR David Grimes, WR Matthew Willis, WR Lucas Taylor, WR Nate Swift, DE Ryan McBean, DE Rulon Davis, NT Chris Baker, NT Everette Pedescleaux, ILB Lee Robinson, CB Tony Carter, and CB D.J.(Dominique) Johnson.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Wow. Thanks bro!
I’ve been wondering about the details of the PS and this really helped. Do you have a sense of the frequency of player’s being poached from other team’s practice squads? Also, as I understand it there is a gap of like a day between a player being cut and being signed to the PS. Is that correct? (Apologies if that is covered above and I missed it.) If, for example, we were to cut Chris Baker on September 5th with the intention of signing him to our PS could another team step in before he was on OUR PS and sign him to their PS? Or does the rule still apply that he would have to go the 53 man roster? Sorry for more questions after your great post, but I am genuinely intrigued and a little concerned that some of our young talent might get away before we can help develop them simply due to numbers…
Thanks Ned. As to the frequency
It doesn’t seem to happen very often(maybe 3-4 times a year). Yes. there is a 24 hour period where the Broncos would have to risk Baker getting poached from another team. That other team would have to add him to their 53 man roster at that point. The waiting period is called the waiver wire, where every team has a shot at that player(Baker in this instance) If two teams want the player, then the team with the worse record would have priority. In other words you would refer to the draft sequence. Does that clarify it for you?
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Great work Kaptain
Rec’d.
Man, I hope Baker doesn’t get nabbed in that process…
Me too, Shawn
I’m really pulling for Rulon Davis and Everette Pedescleaux too.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
I bet the Broncos can keep most of these guys
Most teams will want to keep their own players for their PS – they’ve been through that teams’ TC and are the players that team wanted in the first place so they are going to want to fill their PS with their guys. Exceptions would be (let’s say with Baker) teams that wanted to sign him to a free agent deal last April, but lost out to the Broncos. Let’s say the Packers also tried to sign him after the draft, and let’s say Raji gets hurt in pre-season and goes to IR. There’s no way Baker would make it past the waiver wire, so the Broncos might decide to give him a spot on the 53 man roster. You can bet that the Broncos factor in the situations of all other teams in making these decisions. If it looks like no one would be interested in a DE, for example, then it might appear to be safe to waive Davis and Pedescleaux and hope they clear waivers and can be signed to our PS.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
Since that risk exists both before and after the 24th hour
(of being poached and added to another team’s 53 man roster), how is the first 24 hours different? It should also be pointed out, if I’m not mistaken about this, that another team can’t just take our guy either during that 24-hour period or after we’ve signed him to our practice squad. All they can do is make him an offer, albeit he’s not likely to refuse it.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Well
after the first 24 hours, any team could make a pick up, and during that 24 hour period, the team with the worse record would receive that player if their was a conflict, i.e., two or more teams vying for that player. Essentially, that is what a ‘waiver’ wire is. it gives the priority to the weakest team first.
You are correct, they can make an offer, and the player has an option too. He can go after the money and possible playing time, or he can weigh his future with the team he is developing on. He is treated as a FA in that instance.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 22, 2009 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
During the first 24 hours after being cut by a team....
….a player is subject to being claimed by any ot the other 31 teams. So if Denver cuts Davis and Baker, say, during the final cutdown to 53, then any other team can claim Davis or Baker and the Broncos could do nothing about it. After the 24 hours, that player is free to sign with any team, including the team that cut him. If he’s signed to a PS, any other team can make him an offer to be signed to their 53 man roster. In that case, the first team can make a better offer and the player can choose to sign with his first team. This happened to OL Chris Meyers during his rookie year with the Broncos. Broncos cut him, but after the 24 hour period had passed, signed him the their PS. A few weeks later, Meyers and his agent were approached by another team that wanted to signe him. but the Broncos made him a better offer, and he signed with the Broncos (causing someone else to be cut from the 53 man roster to make room).
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
Very good bradley
Thanks.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 22, 2009 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
During the 24 hours after a player is cut
does he have no say in his destination? Say he has a lifelong dream of playing for the Broncos and an understanding with the coach and would rather go on the Broncos practice squad (for now) rather than one of the 53 on another team. Can he do that? If Detroit claims him do they have to sign him to the 53-man squad? If he refuses what’s his status? Can he negotiate only with Detroit? Do they have sole rights to him? For how long? Thanks in advance from a curious Vulcan.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Correct - he has no say in his destination
Pretty much the same as a player’s status when he’s drafted be a team he doesn’t want to be on. When a player is waived/cut, he is subject to being claimed by any other team during the 24 hour period. If he’s claimed by Detroit, then Detroit owns the rights to him, but they can’t sign him to their PS – they must sign him to their 53 man roster. He could not say No to Detroit and then sign with the Broncos, either to the Broncos 53 man roster or the PS. This is what happened to Domenik Hixon a couple years ago – Broncos cut him in mid season, and Shanahan said he had intended to sign him to the PS after the 24 yours passed, but the Giants claimed him. I’m not sure what happens if the player and the team claiming him can’t agree on a contract. I suspect it’s something like a college player who is drafted and can’t agree. He can sit out a year and then re-enter the draft.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
I don't think that is entirely correct bradley
The rules stipulate that the player is, for all intents and purposes, a free agent. That would give him the option. True you could say the other team claimed him, but I’m not so sure that he Has to go to that team. Of course, he would have a better chance for playing time going on the new teams Active Roster. But the key words are, “he has to sign with that team.”
A player signed to a practice squad contract with one NFL club is completely free to sign a contract and play on the 53-man active-inactive list of any NFL club, not just his practice squad club. So the player remains a FA for purposes of signing an NFL contract.
This cuts both ways. The FA status is from the players aspect, as well as the teams’.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 23, 2009 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
That's the case after the 24 hour period.
During the 24 hour period after being waived/cut, the player is subject to being claimed by any of the other 31 teams. After the 24 hours are up, he is a free agent and can sign any kind of contract he wants. If he signs with the Broncos for a spot on the PS, he remains a free agent and can sign a contract with any other team.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
Ok
Thanks again for the input.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
correct
waivers is a claim system, where they are essentially picking up the players contract from the previous team, not from the player. THat contract technically runs out at the end of 24 hours, the player clears waivers, and new contracts can be offered.
This is also why a team can’t take a guy from waivers that they put there themselves. Technically, they still have him, but in a ‘waivered’ status. To waiver is their choice, and in that first 24 hours there are no takebacks, because it is a person’s livelihood they are messing with. There need to be SOME kinds of limits.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 23, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks Styg
You cleared up my uncertainty about what would happen if a claimed player and the claiming team can’t come to terms. The claiming team just acquires the contract from the waiving team.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
One more question
If he refuses to sign with the team that claims him, does that team still hold rights to him after the 24-hour period is up? If so, for how long? Thanks
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
It is my understanding
That, the player would be a FA and could re-sign with his old team. If he so chose.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
I don't think so
As Styg said above, when Team A waives or cuts a player, the player is subject to being claimed. If Team B claims him, the player has to go to Team B. Team B then assumes the old contract the player had with Team A. The player then has no more right to walk away from Team B than he had to walk away from Team A. After being claimed by Team B, he is under contract with Team B.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
You are right bradley
as well as your comment below. My apologies guys. My comprehension took a sabbatical on me.
Thanks once more for the clarity.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 24, 2009 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Very informative
Thanks for the research. It fills in the holes in my understanding of the PS.
This may be a bit off topic… but I never understood the reasoning behind having a 53-player roster but only 45-game day actives. As I understand it, the salary is paid whether a player is game day active or not. So, financial cost savings is not the reason. Does anybody know?
by BuckarooBanzai on Jul 22, 2009 12:15 AM MDT reply actions
Thanks BroncoSense and BuckarooBanzai
I can’t answer that question BB. Maybe someone else here can. I’m not the smartest tool in this shed. I’m just like a pair of Channel-Locks; Good for more than one thing. =)
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
The 45 active players rule
The idea is that when team A and team B meet on sunday, team A may be totally healthy while team B may have several players unable to play because of injuries. So each team can only use 45 players, to even the playing field.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
Good work bradley, thanks
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Thanks, Bradley
That makes sense. I’m happy to learn something new.
by BuckarooBanzai on Jul 23, 2009 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice read.
I would be careful about saying $88k is not much, though. It´s probably more than most of us make.
by Broncosincebirth on Jul 22, 2009 4:30 AM MDT reply actions
That's likely true
My best year, salary wise was more than that, but I only worked on days that ended in “Y.” Try figuring out what the ‘net’ take home pay is, then decide for yourself if it would be worth it to be the “Rudy Reuttiger” of a pro football team. That is why I say it’s not much.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
By the way...
Anybody know the status of getting our boys signed…Seems that it is taking longer than usual and I’m starting to get a little nervous…
I think they plan to do that from the 27th...3 days to get everyone done....maybe they sign Marshall too????
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Nice KK!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
You bet Boydy
i’m glad you liked it.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Rec'd!!!
Thanks for putting in the time, Kap’n. Much appreciated to see the workings of the PS revealed.
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
Just click your heels together three times and say, "There's no player like Hillis... there's no player like Hillis."
Great work Kirk,
So, what we have is a 53 man roster with 8 of those on the practice squad during games? 45 players are aloud to play regular season games and the 8 players on the practice squad stay in street clothes? How about the IR list, how many can the team keep on it and not count against the roster? This is an issue that was brought up before with no definate clear answer. Example: At the end of the last preseason game the team has 16 players who are not fit to play and are placed on Injured Reserve, does that count against the roster of 53? And players cut during each cut date, can they be added back to the roster as players become injured? These are questions that have always eluded me. Thanks again, and rec’d.
Thanks bfree and Coastal
It looks like you two have provided fodder for my next post. I thought about adding stuff on the roster, IR, and the 3rd QB rule. Some of these things have been addressed somewhat recently. I will take a stab at the roster issues in my next post. Thanks for the impetus guys.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 22, 2009 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Not exactly, bfree
So, what we have is a 53 man roster with 8 of those on the practice squad during games? 45 players are aloud to play regular season games and the 8 players on the practice squad stay in street clothes?
I think you’re confusing terms. After the final cutdown to 53, the Broncos have to wait 24 hours to sign any of our “cuts” to our PS. They can sign 8 players to the PS. So, that means 53 players on the active roster plus 8 on the PS. On game day, each team has to designate 8 of the 53 as inactive. Those 8 “inactives” will be in street clothes along with the 8 PS players.
Anyone placed on IR does not count against the 53 man roster.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
Bradley
Thanks for your excellent contributions to this discussion. This is the kind of input that makes this site kick.(as in Bronco)
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 22, 2009 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
So that gives us 61 total players not counting an infinite IR,
53 active (45 on game day), 8 on the PS, and as many as are injured on IR. Now, do these IR players as they become healthy again knock off a player (cut) when they come back to the active roster? If this is in theory is correct then the team can have more than 80 players around, considering they are indeed injured, correct? This is way confusing.
by bfree2bronc on Jul 22, 2009 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions
You are correct in your thinking bfree
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 22, 2009 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions
IR placement is through the end of season
If a player is moved from 53-man roster to IR, he is not coming back this season. This way teams can not hide players on IR.
When a player is placed on IR...
….he is done for the season. Can’t suit up again until next season. He can work out with the trainers and so forth to help his rehab. IR is therefore different from the PUP (physically unable to perform) list. If placed on the PUP, a player has to miss six games at least. during this time, he does not count against the 53 man roster (nor is he on the PS). After missing ten games, a PUP player must either be activated or placed on IR or waived.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
About the PUP
I should have added (above) that a team can’t place a player on the PUP anytime. It has to be done before the season starts and, in fact, I’m pretty sure it has to be done before TC starts.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
there are two PUPs
one is called the PUP/IR and is for the preseason. A player MUST come off of that PUP before the regular season or they are ineligible fo rthe PUP. (confused yet?)
It has something to do with contracts and medical care under the CBA.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 23, 2009 4:30 AM MDT up reply actions
and of course,
this is ina ddition to the traditional IR, where your finished for the year.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 23, 2009 4:31 AM MDT up reply actions
IR?
Thought once a player goes on IR, he is done for the season. Otherwise the opportunities for gaming the roster numbers are infinite — a guy hurt one week, is well enough to play the next, but then “hurt” again the following week.
Answered before I even asked.
You guys are amazing reading minds and all.
great write up, KK
rec’d!
Does anybody know how the 3rd QB/54th active slot fits in? Does that reduce the PS by one, or is that just an extra player overall?
Super informative piece, Kaptain!
There were a whole lot of things that I was not aware of. Many thanks to all of you for contributing to my NFL education. What a great site! Rec’d also.
" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "
My sentiments exactly!
Thanks for the enlightening Kaptain! One of those things, if it weren’t for MHR, who knows how long it would have been before I learned some of this stuff!
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 22, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Josh Barratt
Sounds like he is no longer available for the PS. This is a shame as i am worried that he could get squeezed at the safety slot for a roster spot. He has so much upside.
Anyway awesome work KK. This is a fantastic post full of useful information.
by British Bronco on Jul 22, 2009 12:04 PM MDT reply actions
I look at it like this
If a good player gets cut, that means we have better depth at that position. If he is that good, he will make it on another team.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Never though about
the practice squad much. Thanks for the great info KK and bringin some understandin to this weary ol’ brain of mine. 5,200 a week still ain’t shabby for playing a game for a living. If they remain on the squad for 17 wks that’s just over 88k a year, more than a lot of people make I’d think.
The practice squad is extremely important
Some of the RB’s that filled in last year came from the PS. And Rod Smith spent his first year on the PS. ’Nuff said.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
You guys are great!
I have the time to do research and feed my curiosity, so I might as well share what I can. Judging by the feedback, I’d say my efforts are being rewarded. I am only too glad to contribute to this awesome site. I am not a football or Bronco expert, but I share a passion for the same excellent organization as you all.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Thanks KK, rec'd
The practice squad has been one of those things that’s often talked about, but little understood (at least by me). Thanks for helping me see how it actually fits into the scheme of things.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
Your very welcome B
I enjoy your stuff too.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Great Post
As usual I have learned a lot. This is the best site I have found in a long time. I have learned more in 2 months than I have in 30 years. Thanks again
Rec’d of course
Nice of you to say papasteve
Thanks
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Ditto what papa said
This is the best site around
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Jul 22, 2009 8:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Great work!
Thanks to the Kaptain (and a few other members’ articles), we as Bronco fans are nearly smart enough to take over the world. (Cue the sinister laughter).
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
Conquering
one team at a time?
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Jul 23, 2009 9:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Or all at once
Either way
= )
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 23, 2009 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
They don't know, but
We got em surrounded. Bwaaahahahaaaa….!
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
thanks bloke
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Just a quick comment
I notice that there is a way to bypass (indirectly) the protection against practice squad poaching. There still is a three week minimum for activating players (must put them on the 53 man protected roster, not necessarily on the 45 man active list), but a player can be placed back on the claiming team’s practice squad after that minimum three week period has expired (and I assume he could choose to return to the team that originally put him on the PS, but I’m not completely sure, anyone know?)
I don’t know if we should view this as poaching though, since practice squad members are truly free agents. Any team can offer them a spot on the their active roster and they’d be foolish not to accept the offer, for both financial and career enhancement reasons.
Members of the practice squad are only bound by the good will generated in camp and they remain with a team at their own choice (besides lacking a better offer). They’re always free to seek better opportunities if they should arise. Often they don’t, so it’s not a bad deal, and staying with the original team, who they may have chosen initially if they signed as a UDFA, makes the most sense.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
As far as I can tell
You are correct in your assumption Colinski.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 23, 2009 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions
"You are correct in your assumption Colinski."
Except that (if you read “Section 5. Active List:” above) the signing team doesn’t actually have to keep a player for three weeks – they just have to pay him for three weeks. So, Team B could sign a player off Team A’s PS, then decide they made a mistake and could then cut him the day after signing him but they’d have to pay him for the next three weeks. In this scenario, the player that was signed but then cut would be subject to the 24 hour waiver wire. If no team claims him off waivers, he is then a free agent and could resign with Team A.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
yes, correct
I actually meant that (and it’s all about the benefit to the players), but the point is that they (or we, and we did do this, as I recall) can keep that player on the practice squad — or POACH HIM! :(
You’re correct about the fact that it boils down to good will, as I said before, since they usually become FAs again and can sign with anyone — anyone who will have them!
A number of our players in recent history came off of other teams practice squads. That’s one reason to leave a space open, i.e., 52, so you can rotate in players, let them go after looking at them, or put them on the PS if they merit keeping. It’s one way of finding talent, albeit marginal talent.
I’ve been wondering if a poison pawn strategy, as in sign Pedescleaux, Davis, etc., to a higher paying contract (which New England did with one PS member last year), would deter poaching. We signed so much quality talent in the UDFA market that we might like to create some disincentives for potential poachers. It’s a minor concern but it’s likely enough to justify the added cost — IMO.
BTW — I’m still looking to add to our protected roster by taking the Redskins’ leftover DL, whoever that may be. I’ve suggested Anthony Montgomery.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
Re: poison pawn strategy
The Patriots paid a full salary to offensive lineman Billy Yates last year, even though Yates – now on the active roster – was a member of the practice squad. The move was a reflection on how the Patriots valued not only Yates but also others on the practice squad.
This year, the Patriots are paying receiver Bam Childress almost double the $79,900 practice squad minimum, rewarding him with a $150,000 salary. Meanwhile, running back Kyle Eckel is making $125,000.
From a 2007 article. I have the link, but this is the entire snippet.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
ENCOURAGING, WOULDN'T YOU SAY?
There’s just too much value in this UDFA crop to let them go elsewhere without making it less attractive for other teams to claim ‘our’ players (read: other 3-4 teams in search of defensive talent). As I said before, this UDFA crop was no accident and I expect that McX are aware of the value in this crop and will take the proper steps to protect our investment.
My feeling is that the cost is relatively low and it sends a message that you value the lowest ranked members of the roster, which helps — for instance — when you ask them to sacrifice their bodies on special teams, or in other ways. It just goes along with sayingthat no one is above the team; therefore, no one is below it, too.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
Yes
It is encouraging. I wouldn’t put anything past McX. They, like yourself, seem to be pretty astute people. I like what I’ve seen so far. There is a precedence in what you say on the subject of value; the way J.J. Arrington was treated is proof of that.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Three weeks from what?
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
From the time that team claims the player
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
I'm not sure Colinski
But I am researching for a post on Roster rules and I have yet to find the answer to that. I will keep looking though.
I’ll agree that poaching may not be a very accurate word, but I will cite poetic license.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
we claimed some off other teams' PS last year
I don’t recall all of them, but Murray was one.
2008: Murray spent the first 14 weeks of the year on Seattle’s practice squad before signing with Denver’s active roster on Dec. 9… Inactive for all three games with the Broncos.
PS — I used "poaching’ for dramatic effect and ease of remembering.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
Some confusion...
….because of use of the terms “claimed” vs “signed”. A team can claim a player during the 24 hour wiaver wire period. If a player is on another teams PS (after clearing waivers), some other team can offer him a contract which, as a free agent, the player is free to accept or not. So, Murray was not claimed but rather signed by the Broncos.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
pardon the sloppiness in language
Correct. “Claimed’ denotes that he would have been on waivers. It was an erroneous reference. I meant that he was signed; not claimed.
BTW — another common error is “waived” versus “released,” and “cut” is an acceptable synonym for both if you’re not sure. Non-vested players are waived and vested players can be either waived or released, depending on when they are cut. Vested players have the right (when released) to negotiate immediately with whichever team they choose whereas the waived are subject to being claimed, and competing claims are resolved much like in the draft.
Curiously, from a language point of view, the term waive pre-dates free agency and is sometimes an archaic reference. All players were subject to waivers before free agency, and the main issue was whether there were competing claims.The terms claim and sign were somewhat synonymous at that time, since “picking up a player off waivers” meant that a team had been awarded the player & contract after competing claims — if any — had been resolved in favor of the team with the lower record.
1. What is the difference between waived, cut and released?
All three terms are synonyms for termination of employment. The number of years of service in the NFL and the time of year has a lot to do with each term as it relates to individual players. A vested veteran player with four years of service will be handled differently from a player with less years of service. Keep in mind football does not have recallable waivers like the business model baseball works under.
Waived: A non-vested player (less than four years of service) who is terminated goes through waivers. When he is released another team can claim him within a certain period of time. A vested veteran only goes through the waiver system from the trading deadline in midseason through the end of the season. During the offseason and all the way up to the trading deadline, a vested veteran gets released.
Released: A vested veteran is free when he is terminated and can sign with any club. Keep in mind, if the termination takes place between the end of the trading deadline and the end of the calendar year, the player goes through waivers. A vested veteran released this time of year is free to sign with any team. For example, Duane Starks was terminated last week and he was not subjected to the waiver system.
Cut: Is an unofficial term for being terminated and one of the above two categories applies.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
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