sitting by himself on the sidelines, etc.

I was just looking over the Bears’ roster in an effort to guess who your source was, and I realized the Bears’ receiving corps completely stinks. Earl Bennett? How about Rudy Burgess? That Rasheid Davis looks like a player.

While plausible based on what little I’ve seen of Cutler, it really is just gossip. Always fun with a cold beer!

    Just because society thinks you should immediately open yourself up to everyone around you, It doesn’t make them bad, or anti-team, it just takes longer to develop relationships. Some people are just not comfortable with quick relationships, or with having a large group of close relationships.

As an introvert myself, however, Jay Cutler does not represent me.

Jay like shis Jack too from all accounts…what a frickin’ wanker!!!

I’m drinking buddies with a couple of the Broncos and let’s just say that the things they’ve told me about Cutler are not fit for print. Suffice it to say they weren’t nice.

I never think about things like that, because everyone is always so nice to me when I go out to eat.

The next time I go out (it will probably be for a little less than $1100) and order nachos with my family, I’m going to leave an extra dollar or two on the table in your memory.

Again, this all leads to the one lead that wasn’t followed by the MSM during all the drama. It was reported on SI Fannation (truth and rumors) that Shannahan and the Broncos in general, pre-McDaniels, were starting to become a bit concerned with Cutler’s lifestyle and attitude. There remains the distinct possibility that McDaniels was attractive to Bowlen partly because he came with an open mind on Cutler. I think the exodous of JC was more of a team effort than anybody will ever know.

I doubt Jay Cutler learns from the mistakes of Brian Griese. Griese was an introverted guy while in Denver and had a breakout season in 2000 much like Cutler in 2008. Griese, however, had a much better season from a quarterback rating perspective (102.9) and limiting turnovers (four INTs, five fumbles). That said, Griese never really endeared himself to Broncos fans and was unable to lead the team during times of adversity similar to Cutler. I remember there being various reports all the way back from 1999, Griese’s first year as a starter that many of his teammates, particularly the older veterans did not enjoy playing with him. Further, Griese had no problem blaming many of the team’s offensive limitations on his lack of receivers following a loss at Miami in 2001. Griese’s indifference concerning Mike Shanahan’s possible move to coach the University of Florida following the 2001 season was also troubling.

Cutler was prone to greater blameful behavior including sulking on the sidelines, yelling at teammates and opposing players, and the whole offseason fiasco that landed him in Chicago. Griese has matured mightily since he last played in Denver—he may have even played his final NFL game and probably realizes now the error of his ways from when he was a young NFL up-and-comer. I have serious doubts that Cutler will learn the same lessons Griese has learned sooner rather than later.

Doesn’t really affect me, I suppose, but it does confirm what most people outside of here thought of him to be true.

You know what pisses me off about it, though? Really, any time you hear stuff like this after a guy leaves town. All the time Cutler was here, we praised his openness about not being a fan of Philip Rivers. We defended him to the hilt when Charger fans made Cutler out to be the bad guy. It turns out that we were all wrong. Cutler was usually the bad guy, though Rivers isn’t nearly free of blame in their long-running feud. By all accounts, though, Rivers is a darling citizen in SD, and we gave everything that we had to make Jay Cutler into the same thing. What did he do? He overreacted and forgot about the fans (even in his press conference in Chicago, he said that he was glad to go to a city where the fans were “more knowledgeable”, which is completely asinine).

That’s where professional athletes and I split. Fans give everything to their athletes. All that we ask is that our athletes do the same for us, or at the very least pretend to do the same for us. Cutler was never that guy. Kyle Orton may only be 1/100 of the quarterback that Jay Cutler is, but I know this: Orton is thrilled to be here, and he will give everything that he has for us. That makes him 100X the QB that Cutler is in my mind.

My family and friends walked into an Applebee’s on Arapahoe and Parker road. We had about 10 of us gathering for dinner after a high school football game. Sitting at the bar was Trevor Pryce, a monster of a man, drinking a beer and grabing some food by himself.
We were all pretty stoked about seeing him, but didn’t go up to the bar to bother him. Instead my father told the waitress to buy him a beer and put it on our tab. Trevor gets his beer turns around smiles and waves politely and goes about his business. He leaves about 15 to 20 minutes later, says thank you again and walks out. A short time later we finish up our meal and get ready to pay the bill. The waitress comes up to us and said Trevor wanted to thank you for the beer so he PAID YOUR ENTIRE BILL. He didn’t say anything before he left, instead quitely picked up the tab for 10 people he didn’t even know.
From that point forward he was always one of my favorite players. The impact of that small gesture made to me and my family was huge. That is how a player and role model should represent themselves. The fans are what make football special and it is refreshing when players recognize that.
I have heard many stories about Jay in Denver and in everyone he is acting immature, rude, and (excuse my language) like an a**hole.

I ran across Elway a time or two, and I probably wouldn’t have any interest in hanging out with the guy. He was aloof, arrogant and decidely unfriendly every time I saw him in public. I never approached him, so I’m going on nuance, but he struck me as an impatient and largely disgusted lord among the peasents.

Karl Mecklendberg tore up a kid’s autograph in front of Mile High Stadium.

On the flip side, I stood behind Rick Upchurch at a really long line at an amusement park and he was very patient and friendly. My favorite encounter, though, would be sitting next to Harold Hassleback, Shane Dronnet, the rest of the the Dline at that time and Tom Reoun of all people, at the Old Chicago at Colorado and I-25. It was after a win against Atlanta— a game I attended— and they were exceedingly nice to me and my girlfriend at the time— often asking us to settle debates. They were also very focused on making sure Roeon got good and drunk, which he was obliging in a very friendly and good natured way.

You really want it to mean something, then name names. Otherwise it is just hearsay to me (and most likely every other intelligent visitor of this blog). I dig my brother bronco fans, but can’t support stuff from “unnamed sources”.

The world would be a much better place if everyone was forced to work in the service industry for one summer of their young adult lives.

=)

and I played golf together once. I took my pastor out for a game of golf once while still living in Cherry Hills. When we were getting ready to Tee Off the guy behind us asked if we could do a foursome cause they had a lunch reservation. We said sure and had them come up. It was Rod Smith and one of his old college buddies. I don’t know if it was a real reservation or not because after the game, Rod took my self his friend and John (my pastor) out for lunch. We talked for a good while. After that, I would see him around the club and he would always say “Hey Jon how is God doing today?” Smile his Rod Smith Smile and go about his business. Never will find another Rod Smith

But I love reading your anecdotes, folks…

I just returned from a four day trip to Indiana & Michigan. Of course I wore my Broncos hat when ever I was out and about – mainly in small towns. Three seperate times I was stopped and asked if I was from Denver, after I acknowledged yes – the overwhelming unsolicited response was that the Broncos now have a great QB in Orton. Oddly, enough my opinion on Cutler was never asked??? The only response was that as a Bears fan they already miss Orton.

Interesting.

It’s been fun reading the good, the bad, and the ugly! :-)

Ouch…that’s gotta hurt. My parents had that done when I was a baby. Maybe he’s tougher than I thought?

I used to manage photo labs and camera stores in the Denver area and had the opportunity to help several Denver athletes. Most behaved as you would probably expect. Laphonso Ellis was happy, engaging, and funny. Ed McCaffrey was quiet, polite, and accessible. I had to literally beat my employees off of him once, they mobbed him, and shoved stuff in his face to sign. I apologized when I had a chance and he was very cool about it. I got the impression that he appreciated the fact that it even occurred to me to be concerned. The employees got educated about class and etiquette very shortly thereafter. I agree about Trevor Price, I have BBQed across a fence from him and always got a wave and a smile. Patrick Roy was reserved and usually in a hurry, but pleasant. His kids were another story altogether… tore my store up every time they came in and drove their nanny nuts. Funny thing is, like many they used an alias in public…. they just pronounced the “Roy” named phonetically. Shannon Sharp came in to a store of mine for Xmas shopping. Bought half the store and probably got a kick out of the fact that I didn’t recognize him. I asked for the spelling of his name and then it dawned on me…. he just smiled when I looked up at him. He just didn’t look big enough, lol. Probably the nicest, or at least tied with McCaffrey, was Valeri (sp?) Kaminski. So pleasant and genuine that you wanted to go above and beyond for him. Elway was pretty much a disappointment, but his wife was kinda a shrew. I don’t know well enough to say for sure, but I always thought they deserved each other, regardless of how much I loved him as an athlete.

this thread gets pretty slimy. i mean, i have no doubt that cutler has been, can be, and will be an ass, but some of the mudslinging here is downright weird. i swear, half the “cutler’s a big dumb jerk” stuff comes off sounding like sour grapes. you know, “i never liked him anyway, so there” kind of thing.

folks, john elway had a solid reputation for not tipping well, hitting on waitresses while he was married and drinking way too much. i once saw another broncos quarterback drunk off his butt at a bar his first year here, picking up on his friend’s girlfriend while the friend was trying to help him stand up straight. the reality is that both these guys were (or turned out to be) pretty good people and excellent examples in their community.

cutler had a very strong reputation in denver’s community before he left, with voices coming out of the woodwork to say how he helped out here or there or would show up when he wasn’t scheduled to, or even gave money to help keep programs going. was he an ass? yeah, probably sometimes—maybe a lot, i don’t know—but my point is that a lot of people are asses when they’re younger and they mature and grow up. i believe cutler will get there if he’s not at that point already. trust me, the “young obnoxious” spoiled brat syndrome is not his invention. i went that route myself (albeit a bit less spoiled, since i’ve yet to amass the uber-million dollars) and look back squeamishly at some of the garbage i pulled.

anyway, maybe it’s all true, maybe only parts of it are, but sheesh, he’s gone—wish him the best, hope he succeeds, matures and thrives in the chicago area. we have bigger fish to fry. like phil rivers. ….now THAT guy… ;-)

I find this discussion interesting, as I have run into a few broncos over the years.
I came to Colorado in the fall of 1964 after leaving Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children USMC and enrolling in DU.
I hung out and then worked Rathskeller on East Evans and Colorado. I think the first Bronco I met was Dave Costa who sat next to me at the bar with another Bronco, who it was I don’t recall. The dude had biceps as big as my thighs and at the time I was 180 lbs. He said hello, no big thing just another guy sitting at the bar.
I next sort of met an ex-middle line backer for the Broncos in Dec 65, had a hot band playing, pick up night. I can’t remember what exactly what happened he was sitting at a table, he had me by 40 lbs but as an ex- Jar Head I wasn’t afraid. I was just the waiter, he must have done something that was not acceptable and thank god for me he backed off, he would have kicked my butt.
That same year at DU business school, I had 2 courses with Lionel Taylor, who was finishing up his degree. I regret I did not get to know him more, he wanted to go out drinking with me, but I did not do it. The Broncos were not very good back then but still had awards. I remember that Lionel Taylor was black and I guess I am white, but we got a big chuckle out of it. They gave one award to a white guy and one award to a black guy the third they gave to Eric Crabtree a receiver because he was half and half.
About 1979 when I felt I was pretty flush, I looked to buy Floyd Little’s house in Cherry Hills, at 4475 South Downing. His 3 acre 6 bedroom house was not doing too well and Floyd was at a point at his life that financially I wanted to help him. I think he has done better after that but what got me in the conversation, was that he remembered playing my high school in Danbury, Ct versus New Haven Hill House, and he thought it was the greatest game he was ever they beat us 44 to 42 in the state Championship. Floyd Little was a real person, who I wish I would have kept up with, along with Lionel Taylor.
My next recollection has to do with John Elway. Two stories.
First is John Elway lived off Parker Road, south of County Line Road, when he was first in Denver. There was a Country Club at Cherry Creek across from County Line Road out near Parker Road. Heard from certain members, 30 years ago so doesn’t mean S*** he would take a limo back to his house which was a couple miles south on Parker.
The next thing happened but also second hand but also more believable as it is my wife’s brother. About the same time some of the Broncos would hang out on the west side at Jackson Hole. My brother in law and a couple of his college basketball friends were there for the first time, as you might remember Jackson Hole used to label the doors backwards… My brother in law entered the women’s room that said men’s and upon discovering his mistake came out to go next door, he was met with a very drunk Elway and friend a tight end, making fun of his error. At 6’6’ and 250 lbs my brother in law did not see the joke… his basketball friends managed to intervene in time to keep fingers and hands in throwing and dunking condition. For some reason my brother in law was never a big Elway fan.
Now that I have moved to the Islands, we do chartering on our 62 ft yacht. I have only met John Elway. Sitting at the outside bar at Foxy’s one afternoon on charter, John Elway came up to the other side of the to get drinks for his family and friends. I looked at him, he looked at me, he got his drinks and walked away.
Next day I am on my charter at the Willy T at Norman Island, and who shows up in this little dinghy with his daughter, son, about 6 friends, his mother and boyfriend and his new main squeeze, the Jokeland Ho.
My wife and I were the only ones there other than his entourage and the bartender. Elways mother said to my wife.. my son is a famous football player and my wife responded yes I know we are from Denver. The conversation lasted about 10 minutes, and then when I said are you watching the San Francisco game tonight, Big John said I don’t care about them anymore.

1. Where were these comments and/or personal anecdotes when Cutler was your QB?

2. I’m not going to say that Calijoefornia’s story about the infamous napkin tip is untrue. However, he has been a member since February, has over 1,500 comments and 50+ posts, but now decides to enlighten all of us with his “experience” in this hearsay-themed thread.

If I waited on my teams QB, I would have written a fan post the next day. If that player stiffed me on a big tip, I would have definitely expressed my anger and frustration about the experience on a blog that I frequent. And if he left a napkin that read "Fuck this town, I’m out of here and your tip’s coming with me", the story along with a scanned copy of the “evidence” would have been up almost immediately after I got home. That’s all I’m saying.

3. When joining the MHR, I accepted a long list of rules. Comments like “what a frickin’ wanker!!!” and “I just think he’s an ass!” among many, many others break more than one of the rules I agreed to follow. Are these comments tolerated simply because they are from your teams fanbase or can I disregard what I agreed to as well?

4. Just to be fair, I posted this article along with my take on the subject over at WCG if anyone cares to swing by. And yes, I agree with oxmouth and a few others that say this stinks of sour grapes.

5. Good luck with your ’09 season and god speed, KO!

Disclaimer: I welcome intelligent debate and will not reply to childish responses and name calling (if that happens to be what this turns into.)

“Love the one your with”

Cutler here optimists defend “The Player” because he is our quarterback, and it is much easier to brush aside character flaws when you are told by your long time, and well respected coach, that “The Player” is the reincarnation of “THE PLAYER”

Right, wrong or otherwise, it is human nature I suppose to brush aside flaws until the end of a relationship, and then if hurt feelings ensue the damn will break and that is where a lot of this is coming from.

I’m not sure how much to read into this, but it’s probably just a way to stir things up between rival teams.

…and quite the coincidence considering the theme of this post:

Check this out.

Bad Urlacher!!!

I guess I have a hard time understanding the self-righteous indignation from Bears fans on this thread when they have had similar conversations themselves at WCG (for example: http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2009/6/1/895710/jay-cutler-being-an-ass). Many of the comments there were along the lines of “That’s fine if he’s an ass as long as he wins football games”. But they’re acknowledging that the guy may very well be an ass. Which is all anybody said here. So what’s the problem? I guess it’s difference between me insulting my sister and somebody else doing it.

I treat hearsay as presumably false unless shown otherwise so Cutler’s purported ‘weirdness" is a non-issue to me. Given the high profile of Cutlergate, he’s likely to attract this kind of attention.

I’m not saying — however — that it’s true or false that a teammate views him as strange, but more to the point, it’s not news worthy. Frankly, I relish a little strangeness. If you’re not strange then you’re not trying hard enough.

What struck me as relevant about this issue is the hearsay angle. Without doubt, there are both pro and con opinions on Cutler and your stance towards him can color your view of the facts.

But it’s hard to examine the subject of cognitive bias without being reminded of the fact that the entire McJaygate issue was built on hearsay. I’m not trying to get any final digs in on Cutler, because I"m not angry that he left, but the entire media firestorm known as McJaygate was ALL about hearsay. And Cutler and Cook used that tendency — i.e., people’s tendency to accept gossip uncritically — to achieve their goals.

There’s a certain "live by the sword; die by the sword’ justice to seeing malicious gossip about Cutler after seeing Cook posture about what a terrible thing it would be if Denver had discussed trading Cutler while admitting that all he knew were the rumors he had heard. And, of coarse, that didn’t stop Cook from going on at length about what a terrible thing it would be if the rumor was true and how irreparable the damage would be. Cook played the rumor game for all it was worth when he knew it would increase his and Cutler’s bargaining power.

I haven’t changed my opinion about Cutler throughout the entire controversy and I didn’t reach my initial assessment of the McCutlergae issue because of his purported personality traits. However, we’re still dealing with fallout from the McJaygate issue that’s the result of Cook and Cutler’s efforts to exploit the rumor mill for their own purposes.

The issue of hearsay is relevant to discussions concerning Jay Cutler but it’s hard to feel sympathy for him. Cutler’s unequivocal language accusing McDaniels of lying about attempts to trade him, a belief that Cutler never pretended was based on much more than rumor, was one of the most dispicable uses of hearsay that I’ve seen.

I have really enjoyed witnessing the evolution of this thread. Its downright epic. Good and thoughtful posts abound. Thanks to all the Bear posters as well; you guys (for the most part) come across well informed and classy. Fun to see respectful football talk from all perspectives.

All I can really add to the thought is that even the post runs the gamut from wistful bronco recollections to pure bile and sour grapes, all the reactions are understandable. The posts about Cutler serve many purposes. Now that he’s not really in our day to day life (as the other broncos are thanks to MHR), and because the ties were severed in such a distasteful manner, Cutler has become something of a villain to many Bronco fans. A lot of us feel jilted and hurt from the defection and petulant behavior. What might be viewed as sour grapes to one side, is something different to another side. Both sides are right. Really this post feels like a frustrated fan base venting, not to hold on to the frustration, but to move past it. Sometimes venting is full of illogic, and hearsay, and yes, sour grapes. Its a catharsis of sorts. A necessary exorcism of all the frustration Cutler caused so many of us. Most MHR posters are very well reasoned and very well informed, which means these kinds of “unsubstantiated rumor” posts don’t happen often (though I’m glad this one did). I have a feeling that once the season moves on, and once we have more time and space between Cutler and the Broncos, he won’t be mentioned on this site too much more. He might be great for the Bears, and if he is, I will be happy for all of the Chicago fans. But right now in Denver, Cutler’s become a personification of what many fans in Denver don’t want from their team.

Why don’t you all just admit Cutler was the one who got away? First your owner gets rid of Shanny and hires that fool McDaniels. Then the McDaniels guy runs Jay out of town. Your team will never be the same. Your run game is a thing of the past. Get used to facing 8 in the box defensive fronts to slow down your no name running backs. And thank you to Josh McDaniels and the Broncos organization for Cutler. I could care less if he’s weird, lol

Is he going to be your featured Runningback this year? I was thinking about drafting him. Thanks.

I just said I would not tip the poster of the Cutler story because he did not seem credible. The restaurant in question was not open in the time frame he cited and was at a different location.

NOT

Cutler is gone. So why is this important?

I’d say because I feel that Cutler screwed us. And he will screw the Bears. He’s a lying alcoholic sos diabetic juvenile whose only concern is for himself. He’s got to be called out for his deceit. His statements and behavior has called Bowen, McDaniels and the Broncos organization and fans liars.

I WON’T STAND FOR THAT! POS! ( or should I say PUS)

I see right through you. You act genuinely nice, but you aren’t. Just about every one of your posts here have been back-handed or undermining in some sort of way. I can just see you sitting in front of your computer screen with a little coy smirk on your face as you are typing. I’m sorry that you have nothing better to do but come here and attempt to disrupt our very planes of exsistence. Please just go away, and take the lot of your buddies with you except for Honey Bear, who seems to be actually nice and not just pretending to be. Enjoy watching Cutler in your offense with that certain plethora of WR’s that you guys have. In other words, you have plenty to be concerned about and none of it relates to anything or anyone here. Good luck in 09!