In Praise of Prater
A while back, I posted some work relating to the principles of kicking that were laid out in Stephan Fatsis' book 'A Few Seconds of Panic'. In it, Fatsis describes the process of learning to kick, and of extending the 'life' of the kicking leg. Despite media and fan rumors that kicker Matt Prater 'lost his confidence' later in the 2008 season, a more accurate analysis is simply that he over-kicked during the competition in training camp as well as in practice and experienced the kind of leg fatigue that is a normal issue among younger kickers. This also points to a weakness in the Special Teams coaching that year.
In the DenverBroncos.com section on Specialists, we have an opportunity to learn in more detail exactly why Prater had those problems later in the season and how the team has stepped forward to help him become more successful. Prater described the fact that he had over-kicked while competing for the position, and then kicked too many times in practice in a vain attempt to improve his game. As commonly happens in such a situation, he found that his range and accuracy actually diminished, rather than improved, as he strove for a better outcome.
This report also dealt with something that had confounded many in the MHR community; the release of valued veteran Mike Leach and the addition of Lonie Paxton, formerly of the Patriots. While taking nothing away from Leach, Prater was quick to extoll the virtues of Paxton's skill, claiming that Paxton hasn't had a bad snap in 9 years. When Paxton snaps for Leach, the laces are letter-perfect and the holder (currently punter Brett Kern) only has to set the ball gently on the ground to have it lined up in exacting position. That saves valuable milliseconds before the kick connects, reducing the chance of a blocked kick (or punt).
With no current competition in camp, Prater will almost certainly be the kicker going into the 2009 season. Although some question why Prater has no competition in camp, it's clear from this interview that he will be keenly aware that there will be lots of good kickers looking for a home over the next few weeks. Prater's biggest competition, as is true for every kicker, is within himself. He has had to learn how to create, duplicate and maintain a fairly short, highly technical and utterly unnatural movement with machine-like precision. He began preparing for this season by stopping kicking for a full month, and has learned how to limit his repetitions in practice. Prater also praises the positive coaching style of new Special Teams Coordinator Mike Priefer, who concentrates on what Prater does right while helping him analyze his errors.
Broncos fans can learn more about Prater and long snapper Paxton as well as punters Britton Colquitt and Brett Kern on the above link to DenverBroncos.com. It's well worth the journey.
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Whatever excuse for Prater makes you feel better.
Elvis played through a broken hand, DJ through torn ligaments, Cutler through diabetes, Marshall through a major hip injury and Prater played miserably through a case of self inflicted leg fatigue. His leg ouchie was so bad that he missed two extra points in week 17. Now I’d call that lost confidence, not a case of leg fatigue. Jr. High kickers usually go 50% on PATs. The back to back shanked PATs came one week after blowing a critical kick (50+ yards that was a terrible call by Shanny) that turned the tide in the Buffalo loss.
Let us not forget that Prater made just 12 of his final 20 kicks, just 60%. Sure his leg may have hurt from too much kicking, but the guy’s head was not right. Not at all
For a player that fell to pieces last season, it is negligent for The Coach not to have some competition in camp for Prater when The Coach stresses the importance of competition at every other position on the roster. The Coach’s approach here is inconsistent and it makes no sense.
It's never black and white
I think leg fatigue is what set in initially for Prater, and then the confidence went down after that. I agree there’s no way he misses extra points just because of leg fatigue, but by then he had missed a lot of longer kicks, many of which might have been attributable to fatigue.
It’s not necessarily inconsistent for McDaniels to give Prater no competition to date. A key point of McDaniels’ draft strategy is “why bring in a guy that doesn’t have a chance of making our squad”. Now we can certainly argue over whether that argument applies to individual players in the draft or in free agency, but it’s apparent to me that McDaniels doesn’t think there’s a kicker available right now that could supplant Prater. And Prater’s probably smart enough to know that, so it wouldn’t add much psychologically to bring in some camp fodder for a faux competition. If anything, that’d just come across as an insult, to multiple parties.
When Matt misses back to back PATs to conclude the season, I think it’s reasonable to say there may be other options out there that are at least as good as Prater. Of course Prater missed 8 of his final 20 kicks so I have more than missed PATs to point to. Just check the guys % on kicks from 40-49. It was terrible and that is where kickers seperate themselves.
How he is suddenly a slam dunk the make the roster is beyond bizarre. I’ll tell you one thing Prater never did and that was earn his way onto this team. Seriously, what did he possibly do in 2008 to deserve a free pass onto the 2009 Broncos? But that didn’t stop the Coach from giving him a free pass.
What did Prater do the deserve the kid gloves treatment here? I’m used to the Coach getting the kid gloves treatment, but at least he has never lost a game (he hasn’t done anything). Prater on the other hand????
And it does not bare repeating the his stats in 2008 were comparable to Elam’s in Jason’s rookie year. Kicking has come a long way since Elam’s rookie year. Kickers across the league are far more accurate today than they have ever been. Apples vs oranges.
McGeorge
I like the choice not to bring someone else in. What for? Why spend the Money. Prater was an average kicker last year, and he wasn’t 100% through the second half of the season. Bringing in a new guy is just as big of a gamble. He could do the same thing that Prater did this year. It just doesn’t make sense to bring in a rookie, and going out to the FA just costs money. Valuable money we could be spending towards keeping our kicker off the field by fielding a red-zone-scoring offense.
From your choice of words about Prater you seem quite “peeved” about it all. You can blame us missing the playoffs on a lot of things, but the kicker wasn’t really one of them. He comes in to try and save face for an offense that couldn’t push the last 30 yards. If you’ve got the perfect scoring offense, you don’t even need a kicker but to send the ball to the other team. 2 point conversions all day long.
I don’t understand why you hate the choice so much. Kicking is 25% ability and 75% mental man, when you rip at his confidence you’re only making him worse. And if you don’t keep the new guy you brought in, HE is going to be worse after the competition. I just don’t see an upside to bringing in a new kicker…
Do you have any other reasons?
It's Orange Crush time. And no I am NOT talking about the soft-drink.
Which I beg the question: "Can liquid really be... soft?"
3 TE Set = 3 losses or less.
Do it MickeyD... 13-3!!
Well apparently...
…Coach McDaniels disagrees with you on who’s available and how good they are. And yes, I know you don’t like Coach McDaniels ;-)
I frankly couldn’t care less about those missed PATs against San Diego. I can’t think of a single Bronco who showed up for that game. It still comes down to what’s available now. If you’re aware of someone specifically that the Broncos could bring in as an improvement on Prater, that would bolster your argument. Otherwise I thought he was one of the better kickers in the league in the first half of 2008, and I’m willing to believe the reasoning being given about why he faltered in the second half. I am certain that McDaniels knows more about all this than I do.
That "you" at the start of my post was McGeorge, not USMCWall....
Just to be clear. :-)
Prater and Elam's stats are comparible in the same time frame so give it a rest!
Prater was NOT the reason we didn’t make it to the playoffs, there were a lot of factors involved with that. Always with the negative waves…pass the wine cheese man…hubba…hubba…
by bfree2bronc on Jul 28, 2009 11:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Any number of things
could have changed that. Personally I’m glad we didn’t make the playoffs – we were going to have another blowout to deal with, ala our exits against the Colts in recent years.
But this digresses from the argument, which is whether Prater should have competition in camp this year. You mentioned Stover below – how old is he? Not arguing against him, I’m just not up on who’s available.
by ShawnDenver on Jul 29, 2009 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions
If Cutler throws a better pass to Brandon Stokely,
the Broncos are in the playoffs.
Ahh, the “what if” game. So easy. So pointless.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Hmm
Gramatica hits that kick (either of them) in week 3, and Denver isn’t in the playoffs.
Ed Hochuli doesn’t jump the gun in week 2, and Denver isn’t in the playoffs.
Ya feel me? Good talk. Take your relentless negativity elsewhere.
"I'm a Michigan Wolverine, which means I'm the only one who watches 'Rudy' hoping he pulls a hamstring or pops a quad." - Rich Eisen
Mc Negative:
I want to see you kick a football or even a soft ball when it is 8 degrees out. Who are you anyways? YOu sound like a “want to be” to me.
go4thegoal
Ugh
He’s a young kicker who is doing a “good” job so far. Complain all you want, but this kid had numbers eerily similar to Elam’s when Elam was at the same point of his career.
Prater will be fine. I don’t care what the reason is for competition or no competition, as long as we win games. If Prater causes us to lose them, I bet you a dime to a dollar that he doesn’t keep his job for the whole season.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
The holder probably had the laces in for those two PAT's
jk
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
Lets not forget...
Last year was Prater’s first full year as a starting kicker. It bears repeating, but Prater’s stats last year are not unlike those of many notable kickers their first full year of action, including Jason Elam. Kicker is one of the least appreciated, least thought about positions on any team but is in reality no less critical than any other. In fact, since there’s often just one actual placekicker on the roster the competition at that position is rather unique. It isn’t uncommon for kickers to go at it a little hard, and I would bet you money that Prater knew his leg wasn’t right well into the season last year. That sort of thing can easily cause you to overcompensate on something as easy as a PAT and miss it.
In the end, fans can debate this endlessly but the proof is in the pudding – Prater will either improve this year or not. If he does, problem solved and we know what he’s said is true. If not, then maybe he really is over rated.
At this time, I choose to believe what he said – because it isn’t just an anecdote – it happens all the time.
by TheMastermind on Jul 28, 2009 6:44 PM MDT up reply actions
McGeorge you are just relentlessly negative...
If you’re right, will it make you happy?
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Jul 28, 2009 6:48 PM MDT up reply actions
No. I just don’t like The Coach or Prater.
And what happens with the 2009 season and beyond depends not one bit on what will make you or I happy. We both want the Broncos to win the next 50 Super Bowls. If Denver is great in 2009, we’ll be happy. If we are 4-12 at watching Seattle pick a stud D-linemen with our 1st round pick, we won’t be.
Based on what I’ve seen from The Coach, the latter seems far more likely to me.
Do you really dislike Prater?
or the fact that he is somehow considered above competition?
I ask because, to me, irregardless of last season’s late collapse, Prater has some tremendous upside. Usually I don’t care about upside that I think I see in a kicker, as I don’t understand the position that well, but when Jason Elam is of the same opinion…well, I tend to get a bit excited, because I firmly believe that Jason, year before last, was definitely ina position to know what he was talking about.
Prater’s leg strength is upper tier, better than a young Elam. He may be one of the strongest two or three kickers in the league. He was hitting 68 and 69 yarders in training camp, so the strength and accuracy are tools in his toolbox. His 14 of 15 showing to start the year in 2008, including 3 for 3 from 50+ yards was very enlightening as well. He can do it. The conditioning argument really gains credibility in that light, in my opinion.
One of the things I heard when Obrien came over from the Panthers was that he was a ‘detail oriented’ coach who continually pressed and pushed and harped ont he negative. From what I hear of Priefer, he builds on the positive. Perhaps a difference in coaching style would benefit a young man with elite potential as well.
The competition issue is on a whole different spectrum from discussing Matt the player, however, as it seems to be a choice bound up in the degree and magnitude of roster overhaul we are experiencing right now. I think in a perfect world, there is an insurance kicker brought in and prepped. As it is, it seems likely that competition at kicker is simply too much of a luxury for a team in transition,
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 28, 2009 11:44 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Forget about the Coach for a second. I really dislike Prater - a statement that stands alone.
Late season collapse or 2nd half of season collapse. The latter is more accurate. Prater was a well below average kicker for the 2nd half of 2008. He didn’t miss one or two kicks he should have made, he missed several.
By week 17, he was one of the very worst performers on the team (i.e. he was doing his job as poorly as a Manuel or Webster).
I’m asking a simple question. What did he do in 2008 to get a free pass onto the 2009 team? Kickers are not expensive so why not put two in camp and let the better one win the job?
When did the 53 man roster come out?
As far as I can tell, Prater hasn’t officially “made” the team yet.
Starting last season, Prater was a weapon. Long kickoffs, long field goals…that is a valuable asset to have! Then he fades in the 2nd half…but every knowledgeable source has pointed out that Prater wore out his leg (I know you don’t want to believe it, but just wishing the fact would go away doesn’t make it vanish). So the staff is letting him go about kicking in an appropriate manner, letting him build off of last season (which, again, wasn’t atypical for a first-year kicker) and maintain the power and accuracy through the whole season.
And if he falls apart at the seams, there are always kickers available; as others have pointed out, why waste a roster spot when it would be easy to cut him and replace him if needed.
Just relax and let this play out.
"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.
I suspect...
that Prater has already had an opportunity to show McDaniels where he’s at to date. It’s apparently been good enough for us not to grab someone else as competition. Of course, Prater’s problem last year was that he faded in the second half of the season. That’s not going to manifest itself in camp, nor is competition from another kicker going to have any impact on it in camp.
by ShawnDenver on Jul 29, 2009 12:54 PM MDT up reply actions
+1
I agree with McGeorge that Prater was poor at the 2nd half of last season, but I’m willing to see what happens with him. It surely isn’t worth all the hub-bub of this discussion. I hate be minimize the situation, but cmon! He’s a friggin kicker. If he sucks, we can get another one more easily than any other position in the game.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
I agree!
Prater has the potential to be a VERY good kicker. But if he implodes…easily replaced with something average-ish. All the more reason to NOT carry a second kicker into camp; there will be tough cuts without wasting that extra spot.
"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.
Is this phrasing...
….really necessary, McGeorge?
“Whatever excuse for Prater makes you feel better.”
I’ve noticed before that you have an intelligent opinion, even if it differs from my own. But when you start your post with a phrase like that, I skip over everything else you say. So your message in not getting through. And worse yet, it makes me feel like I’m at the Denver Post.
by 47RulesofHighlyEffectiveBankRobbers on Jul 28, 2009 7:41 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hello Mr. McGeorge:
When are you going to teach kicking the football? Matt Prater had a stellar first half of the year and an average second half. He was 5th for touchbacks. I have never seen you say anything nice or positive about anyone. You are a fair weathered fan and I hope that you are not raising children.
go4thegoal
Hey BB
I’ve got a theory on why theres no competition for Prater at the moment, and its purely psychological.
I wrote this comment in one of Boydy’s posts regarding Prater.
Do you think McD just see’s a different motivational need in Prater, and has not brought in the competition on purpose, especially since its a position that requires lots of mental concentration and self belief?
Different people have different motivational triggers, some respond best to competition, some to critizism, some are emotionally fragile and need heaps of encouragement etc..
Perhaps McD see’s this in Prater and is trying to give him a real emotionally supportive environment because he see’s a guy with a big leg who just needs to get his head focused and confident.
Its probably a different story with the DE’s & LB’s who McD prefers to keep in a cage and poke with sticks while wearing the next upcoming opponents QB jersey.
by Scotto on Jul 28, 2009 5:53 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Or perhaps McD felt
The only change needed was at the coaching position. Another thing I’ve been wondering is; Could the Chris Simms signing have been a required need for McD as a holder for FG’s? His Left-Handedness would come in handy on a fake or a muffed FG Attempt.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Fatigue and Confidence
I don’t know which one it was that did Prater in last year (or a combination of the two), but the lack of competition in training camp should help in both areas. There’s not much downside here. If you bring in another kicker, chances are Prater is going to beat him out anyway. Bringing in competition for Prater really doesn’t address the possibility of another mid-season meltdown, becuase there’s no way to predict that in camp. And the upside is considerable, based on Prater’s early kicking last season. It generally takes a kicker a few years to develope, and I’d be willing to bet that McDaniels views the lack of competition in training camp as a relativly small risk, which he’s investing in what could be the Bronco’s next franchise kicker.
Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.
by Hercules Rockefeller on Jul 29, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
well said.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 29, 2009 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Scotto, that's a good point
I suppose that if you combine the fact that Prater is responding well to the positive reinforcement coaching model and that he has ‘no competition’ – although he is right in that if he falters too much there will be lots of folks ready to step in – you could make a case that McD and Co. have decided that he’s going to do best with that approach
As far as the relentlessly negative theory – if you don’t know anything about kicking, that theory makes sense.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
If i'm not mistaken...
in Fatsis’s book, Jason Elam mentions the reason that he does not want to kickoff is exactly because of fatigue and how it affects his field goals.
Your memory is accurate kapiti.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
An extra roster spot
It’s kind of funny (in Fatsis’ book) to hear Jason respond to the issue of using a roster spot for a kickoff guy (in addition to the FG kicker): Basically, Elam’s attitude is “So what? So what if you don’t have another lineman or something?” Kind of funny – it may have been a bit tongue in cheek.
But that’s maybe one reason why Prater has no competition. It’s clear that McD is looking at a lot of new players, and vets in new positions, and 80 spots is 80 spots, not 81. Remember when teams could have 100 in training camp?
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu
Exactly right
Fatigue is a big problem for kickers, one that has to be carefully managed as the Fatsis book revealed. Certain posters clearly haven’t read it and thus really don’t know what they’re talking about here, but I guess that’s normal for them.
by AllBroncsallday on Jul 29, 2009 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions
Another possible reason
for not bringing in additional kickers to compete with Prater in addition to cap space and the psychology may also be that a kicker really doesn’t have to learn schemes and systems. If at some point JM feels that Prater isn’t getting it done he can easily sign the best available FA and with a little practice for timing with the snapper and holder be up to speed.
"as in football so in life"
I agree
with your thoughts Asinsoin. I hadn’t thought about it from that angle. It makes sense to me and seems logical.
+1 Asinsoin
Good point regarding not having to learn to much scheme and systems, you can really plug & play with kickers
Exactly!
and its not just cap space… there is also a new 80man roster limit for training camp, so bringing in competition for Prater necesitates LESS competition at some other spot.
I don’t think Prater is any great shakes, but for all the reasons mentioned, to be it seems utterly reasonable to hold off on bringing a new guy in at least initially while they evaluate Prater. The argument that “what could it hurt to bring in competition?” ignores the fact of limited roster size, etc. There is a definite price to bringing in competition, and if the coaching staff is relatively sure Prater will be the end result of the competition and/or just as good of options will be available post-camp, there is simply no use in sinking money/roster space/etc. into a competition.
On a previous thread McGeorge said he wouldn’t be surprised to see Prater cut and some street FA kicking for us by november… I agree. If Prater doesn’t cut it, we’ll grab some vet FA that kicks cut at the end of August, and move on…. or he’ll look good and no one will complain.
That McGeorge keeps insistently harping that we have to waste a roster spot given these options I think has more to do with what McD did to McGeorge’s sister… and less about any real complaint about the football wisdom of starting up a kicker competition.
Prater looked great early last season too...
I will not pass judgment on him until the season is over. I want to see some progression from this young man…
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
White Guys can't jump!
Black guys can’t kick! Hugh?
Have you ever seen an African American who wanted to win the kicking job for any NFL team? Niether have I! Why?
Is Kicking A Football Exciting? Well it can be when the game is on the line. Does it pay the BIG BUCKS? Not really.
I called TO the other day and told him that if there wasn’t a team willing to pick him up, that we were having tryouts in Denver for a punters position! I was a little dissapointed that he didn’t return my call, but then he found a new team that would employe him at the possition that he loves, and so I understand why I didn’t get that call.
Mr. Dawkins came to Denver and never was offered a try out for the Kicking possition, not the punter or kick off guy, or even the field goal kicking opportunity, and he doesn’t really seem all that upset about it.
Rod Smith played his whole career here in Denver and never complained that he did not get an opportunity to punt at least once.
I actually thought that while Jerry Rice was here… never mind.
I guess that my point is that the kicking possition is a spot that just about any one can do, if they have a good European Football career ahead of them but they are Americans who would rather stay here. OK. You can call it Soccer if you want to, but it is still all about kicking a ball.
I still think that white men can jump and that black men can kick. I just don’t know why either one of them want to.
It can’t be for the money, can it? Have any of you ever seen an African American who was a kicker or punter in the NFL? I haven’t been able to come up with one. Perhaps this is the only fraternity left that is racially challenged!
What do you think?
It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.
I remember him
….from Super Tecmo Bowl! :)
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 28, 2009 11:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Great job again bear and Prater will be fine, this year will give him Pro Bowl stats IMO.
and by the way, I like the: " the laces are letter-perfect"
a story of early and late
If you looked at the first half of Prater’s season and saw that he was 14 of 16 with 5 of 5 from beyond the 50, you’d think he deserved pro bowl recognition. And this is especially true when you consider the length of his kickoffs, which prompted Elam himself to remark that Prater had the strongest leg he’d ever seen (or words to that effect), when the Broncos acquired him in late 2007.
Prater’s slump in the second half of the season tarnished a stellar start and it related, in part, to the physical problems he was having since it also affected his kickoffs, too. The other aspect of his problem was psychological, which sometimes happens with a rookie (or young) kicker.
Both Shanahan and McDaniels decided against trying to find a different kicker — although that wouldn’t be hard to do.
Assuming that Prater’s late season problems were an aberration, which seems reasonable given the evidence for leg fatigue (68.7 yards per KO in 2007 v. 65.7 in 2008) and the more recent adjustments which appear to have solved the problem, Prater’s worth because of this leg strength shouldn’t be undervalued. And I’m sure that McDaniels, who also was a kicker, appreciates the importance to special teams of having a kicker who can consistently kick off deep into the end zone, as well as having a scoring threat from beyond the range of most kickers.
Another virtue in having a kicker with Prater’s leg strength is that it eliminates the need to carry two kickers, which is something we had done at times in the past because Elam’s distance on kick offs was inadequate later in his career.
I won’t minimize the importance of having an accurate kicker but if he had made a few more field goals late in the season then his accuracy would have been a non-issue.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
Good point.
Both Shanahan and McDaniels decided against trying to find a different kicker — although that wouldn’t be hard to do.
The sage is full of anxiety and indecision in undertaking anything, and so he is always successful.
Chuang - Tzu

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